@All,

I have chosen not to meddle in religious matters but I'm 'kinda' forced to react to this post based on common sense, which I believed its equally 'biblically' driven though without any explicit biblical quotation.

My take on this subject is rather simple and see below:

If Satan and his legions including the dead who were supposedly sinners on earth are languishing in 'hell or hell-fire' as at date,how come the devil and his 'troops-demons' still go about to and fro on the earth albeit causing 'mayhem'? Albeit, Satan cannot live in two places at a time now!

More so, if Jesus Christ was indeed in hell, how come the bible did not record he was tormented? After all,hell as its peddled is meant to be a place of torture.

Please take your time and ponder on it.

Btw: Lazarus and the rich man story was a proverb!

The Bible is majorly written in allegory and this is a fact we must admit and try to do a bit of research on subject matter.

Personally, sometimes I get confused about some key contexts in the bible,its just a fact for me! I am not oblivious of the fact that the truth in life is quite a hard-sell nay religion.

Wishing everyone a much more blissful 2013! Stay blessed all!!

nedostic: @All,

I have chosen not to meddle in religious matters but I'm 'kinda' forced to react to this post based on common sense, which I believed its equally 'biblically' driven though without any explicit biblical quotation.

My take on this subject is rather simple and see below:

If the Satan and his legions including the dead who were supposedly sinners on earth are languishing in 'hell or hell-fire' as at date,how come the devil and his 'troops-demons' still go about to and fro on the earth albeit causing 'mayhem'? Albeit, Satan cannot live in two places at a time now!

More so, if Jesus Christ was indeed in hell, how come the bible did not record he was tormented? After all,hell as its peddled is meant to be a place of torture.

Please take your time and ponder on it.

Btw: Lazarus and the rich man story was a proverb!

The Bible is majorly written in allegory and this is a fact we must admit and try to do a bit of research on subject matter.

Personally, sometimes I get confused about some key contexts in the bible,its just a fact for me! I am not oblivious of the fact that the truth in life is quite a hard-sell nay religion.

Wishing everyone a much more blissful 2013! Stay blessed all!!

Great points and very well put.

.

Bidam: ok what about what apostle peter said: "By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire being kept for the day of judgement and destruction of ungodly men(2pet 3:7)..if u read the entire book of 2peter..u will agree with me(i don't have the resource to quote) that he is talking about the final judgement of ungodly men,blasphemers,slanderers,false prophets and consequently their final destruction..

the bible says that we should not be afraid of the person that can kill the Body But cannot kill the soul(life) but be afraid of him that can kill both the body and the soul(life) in fire.

that ^^^ is telling us that there is a difference between the regular death of mankind and a death resulting from the action of the almighty God that "can destroys both body and soul" = complete destruction or absolute destruction of body and soul, when it is done by God.

And this death that arises from the action of the almighty is = "fire"

1. so, in the bible a death that is cause by God is represented by the word "fire" this tells us that the death is not a regular death that has a hope of a resurrection like Adamic death, but rather, it is a death cause by the almighty God and there is no more hope since the death cause by the almighty God is absolute = both body and soul(life, no more hope of life for that person) and there is nobody in the whole univers that can rest, it back.

(note: in the instance of Adamic death, there is hope for "all" in the gave to come out:
"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which
"all"
that are in the graves shall hear his voice, " and come out (John 5:28,29)

so, fire marks the difference between Adamic death that "all" can come out and the one by Yahweh that there is no coming back for such a person.

2. Then, wherever fire is used in the bible, it symbolises a death by God and that death is absolute, complete, no one can restore back life to that person.

3. So then, a death by fire in the bible shows that this death is not an Adamic death.

4. Therefor, death by fire is the means in which the bible diferentiate Adamic death and a destruction by God.

5. Figuratively, fire in the bible is used to signify a permanent rejection or abhorance by God to any person, thing, or place, even organization.

6. The use of the word Fire = a never to returned, repeated event, incident, or conditions.

Peace.

Bidam: Dont forget mathew13:42 and luke 13:28 where there is weeping and gnashing of teeths wen the angel throws sinners into the fiery furnace...and pls don't tell me jesus was making a parable here...the truth be told HELL IS REAL AND HEAVEN IS REAL.

all that is simply for emphasis that death by Yahweh is a serious matter.

Of causes it is a permanent death.

alexleo: Its a very simple matter which can be cleared this way- lets pray that if our stand on this matter is wrong before God, may God put us to shame here in nairaland and outside here and may our teaching about it crash and if you people's stand on this matter is wrong before God, may God put you people to shame here in nairaland and outside here and may your teaching about it crash. Amen. Do you agree to this prayer?
Frosbel and plappvile are inclusive. Others who believe u too. Same goes to me annony,Joagbaje etc.

"knowing the truth leads to eternal life"

that ^^^ is more important than any other consideration.

Being put to shame by Yahweh is a very serious matter that i will not wish for any body.

Try and look at this matter again.
Peace

God2man:

frosbel, where are you? Why is advocate666 silent on an important topic that is related to him? Is it a grand deception from the pit of hell that hell does not exist? but satanist know that it exists . Where do we go from here?

God bless you.

God2man.

why are you this childish?

That Guy advocate is an atheist, if he had known better will he had become an atheist?

When did advocate become a reference point of truth for you?

When did advocate became an authority of a bible teaching?

Is the bible no longer enough for you?

Am ashamed of you.

Omo Alata:

Noah: Repent, a flood is coming which will destroy the earth.

frosbel: I will fight against this LIE wherever I see it rear it's ugly head.

Noah: Please brother frosbel, come into the ark so you can be saved.

frosbel: Nairalanders, go about your daily business. This is a lie from the pit of hell

The rain starts and starts and starts

frosbel: Oga Noah, open the door!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As it was in the days of Noah so is it now:

As it was in the days of Noah . . .

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which
"all"
that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment " (John 5:28-29).
^^^
this is the hope of "all" men that have died that never heard of the goodnews about the christ and of the kingdom of God.

But for those that have heard, witness is served:
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a "witness" unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:14).
^^^
"witness" having been served it form the basis for judgement now.

Those that never heard about christ will be given an opportunity to hear and make an inform decision during the judgement day:

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Revelation 20:12).

^^^
The response of the Resurected to what they will be taught will also form the basis for either they will die a second time or they will pass to eternal life.

lagerwhenindoubt: ^^^ What happens after you die in a state of SIN?

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be acursed." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

lagerwhenindoubt:
Do you go to hell or simply die and await judgement

the preaching about the christ is the basis of Judgement.

So, the death of such a person that has heard and rejects christ is final, no basis for Resurection since he has already heard the message and made his choice.

lagerwhenindoubt:
I am more likely to believe the catholic purgatory format or Judaic Sheol (A place of suffering) but is that really Hell that all Sinners will end up?

^^^
that is not a bible teaching.

Why do you think the reason is that there is need for the effort to preach to people of all the nation for a witness to them

Some folks did miss the boat.

@ola....your cartoons are so hilarious.....

truthislight:

"knowing the truth leads to eternal life"

that ^^^ is more important than any other consideration.

Being put to shame by Yahweh is a very serious matter that i will not wish for any body.

Try and look at this matter again.
Peace

It is better for those who are teaching false in this issue to be put to shame by God so that they stop deceiving others and also quit deceiving themselves. It is better they suffer shame in this world and repent than suffering eternal shame and pain for deceiving people. It is very simple to agree to this if you are sure your teaching is true.

alexleo:

It is better for those who are teaching false in this issue to be put to shame by God so that they stop deceiving others and also quit deceiving themselves. It is better they suffer shame in this world and repent than suffering eternal shame and pain for deceiving people. It is very simple to agree to this if you are sure your teaching is true.

Stop this childishness, the problem is you cannot tear your mind away from the doctrines of the Apostolic Faith Church which are set in stone.

Which is more important to you , the WORD of GOD or the flawed doctrine of MAN.

"Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!" - Acts 5:29

You could well be on the side of the deceivers, because deceivers know not that that they are also deceived.

What we need from you is unemotional arguments , based on the BIBLE , not on random traditional churchianity nuggets .

ijawkid: @ola....your cartoons are so hilarious.....

He needs help fast !

lagerwhenindoubt: ^^^ What happens after you die in a state of SIN? Do you go to hell or simply die and await judgement after which the Beast and his Angels are cast into the Lake of Fire with all the other unrepentant sinners.. you ask yourself and you will know that nobody has been to hell and seen all what they are claiming to have seen. Even if it exist considering that we are in the End-times, It surely must be empty unless you wish to call God a liar, i don't see any other way.

HELL is a future event , prepared for the destruction of the devil, his cohorts and all that is evil.

Call it a cleansing of sorts, when God will rid this planet of all EVIL and it's adherents.

People especially MOG preaching that they have been there are simply exposing their falsehood that will be rightly punished when Judgment comes.

MOG are not the authority on the word of GOD, the Holy Spirit is.

Many today are deceived because they cling on to the words of so called great MOG over the plain meanings of scripture. To be free from this bondage is the first step into freedom.

Of course we need teachers in the body of Christ and there are many good ones, but every word that comes out of their mouths must be in line with scripture , otherwise it must be canned.

I am more likely to believe the catholic purgatory format or Judaic Sheol (A place of suffering) but is that really Hell that all Sinners will end up? just as Paradise is not Heaven.. you tell me

Judaic Sheol is not a place of suffering but the grave , simples. MAN does not survive death , all of him dies.

Purgatory does not exist.

We have one chance in this life at salvation, when we reject it, there is no going back, destruction is the only antidote for rebellion.

alexleo:

It is better for those who are teaching false in this issue to be put to shame by God so that they stop deceiving others and also quit deceiving themselves. It is better they suffer shame in this world and repent than suffering eternal shame and pain for deceiving people. It is very simple to agree to this if you are sure your teaching is true.

Ok, I see. I think people yearn and deserve to know the facts in the bible, and so they dig into the Bible and examine things for themselves instead of beleiving everything someone says or just following Church traditions.

Just like the "the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true " - Acts 17:11

Much better to at least try to explain from the Bible why a God of love woould burn people eternally or refute the verses already quoted which shows "lake of fire" to be symbolic.

You are runing away from a simple assignment. If you are sure of what you are teaching then you dont need to run away. Look, even satan misquoted the scriptures trying to deceive Jesus so dont even think you can deceive me by misquoting the scriptures. And i repeat, if you are sure you are right then stop running away from this simple assignment. Thanks.

frosbel:

Stop this childishness, the problem is you cannot tear your mind away from the doctrines of the Apostolic Faith Church which are set in stone.

Which is more important to you , the WORD of GOD or the flawed doctrine of MAN.

"Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!" - Acts 5:29

You could well be on the side of the deceivers, because deceivers know not that that they are also deceived.

What we need from you is unemotional arguments , based on the BIBLE , not on random traditional churchianity nuggets .

alexleo: You are runing away from a simple assignment. If you are sure of what you are teaching then you dont need to run away. Look, even satan misquoted the scriptures trying to deceive Jesus so dont even think you can deceive me by misquoting the scriptures. And i repeat, if you are sure you are right then stop running away from this simple assignment. Thanks.

Assignment ? And why is this assignment not based on the WORD of GOD , why is it based on your miscontruement of scripture and emotional bias based on tradition ?

I am certain that the GOD I worship is not a GOD of torture, only SATAN fit's the description you portray with your eternal torment nonsense.

frosbel:

He needs help fast !

Tell me who needs help from the pikshure down below?

truthislight:

why are you this childish?

That Guy advocate is an atheist, if he had known better will he had become an atheist?

When did advocate become a reference point of truth for you?

When did advocate became an authority of a bible teaching?

Is the bible no longer enough for you?

Am ashamed of you.

There is no need for insult, it is always an evidence of a lost argument when it started.

In 1974 the film "Burning hell" was made, this film has converted so many souls into God'S Kingdom. Frankly speaking, there are some doctrine that should never be debated or argued, anti-hellish messages, anti-trinity doctrine, anti-tithing theology. You want to know why, all these doctrines have been existence before you were born.

The question is, of what use is the argument, when great preachers have been teaching these doctrines for decades. Is it frosbel and co, that will put an end to these teachings? I wonder.

Wishing a very prosperous new year.

God bless you.

God2man.

frosbel:

Assignment ? And why is this assignment not based on the WORD of GOD , why is it based on your miscontruement of scripture and emotional bias based on tradition ?

I am certain that the GOD I worship is not a GOD of torture, only SATAN fit's the description you portray with your eternal torment nonsense.

My friend why are you trying to shy away from a simple thing? If you sure you are preaching the truth why are you running away? We ve argued exetensively on this in a thread Mr Anonny opened and we are thru with that. Now let God manifest those who are preaching right and wrong here and you are busy wounding yourself like the prophets of baal. When Elijah was thru with arguments with the prophets of baal he took the matter to God for him to decide which is what am doing. Your actions so far shows you are not sure of what you are teaching so you are afraid of God putting you to shame. See my prayer below-

Oh God if we are wrong in our teaching of eternal torment for sinners and that when a sinner dies his goes to hell to be tormented as written in the story of Lazarus and the rich man in the scriptures pls put us to shame in this nairaland in the world at large and let this our teaching crash, in Jesus name, amen. If what frosbel and co is teaching on this issue is right pls prosper their teaching here in nairaland and in the world at large, in Jesus name, amen. If what frosbel and co is teaching on this issue is wrong pls put them to shame in this nairaland and in the world at large and may their teaching crash, in Jesus name, amen.

God2man:

There is no need for insult, it is always an evidence of a lost argument when it started.

In 1974 the film "Burning hell" was made, this film has converted so many souls into God'S Kingdom. Frankly speaking, there are some doctrine that should never be debated or argued, anti-hellish messages, anti-trinity doctrine, anti-tithing theology. You want to know why, all these doctrines have been existence before you were born.

The question is, of what use is the argument, when great preachers have been teaching these doctrines for decades. Is it frosbel and co, that will put an end to these teachings? I wonder.

Wishing a very prosperous new year.

God bless you.

God2man.

Yeah you are right. Insults arises as a result of their failure. See how they are shying away from a simple assignment i gave them. Cheap gospellers. When the battle goes tough they run for their dear life.

God2man:

There is no need for insult, it is always an evidence of a lost argument when it started.

In 1974 the film "Burning hell" was made, this film has converted so many souls into God'S Kingdom. Frankly speaking, there are some doctrine that should never be debated or argued, anti-hellish messages, anti-trinity doctrine, anti-tithing theology. You want to know why, all these doctrines have been existence before you were born.

The question is, of what use is the argument, when great preachers have been teaching these doctrines for decades. Is it frosbel and co, that will put an end to these teachings? I wonder.

Wishing a very prosperous new year.

God bless you.

God2man.

That people have been preaching things for years does not make it accurate. For many years in the past, reading or translating the bible was punishable by death. Truth only comes from the bible. If you can't back up your teaching from the scriptures, then it's false. End of.

God2man:

There is no need for insult, it is always an evidence of a lost argument when it started.

In 1974 the film "Burning hell" was made, this film has converted so many souls into God'S Kingdom. Frankly speaking, there are some doctrine that should never be debated or argued, anti-hellish messages, anti-trinity doctrine, anti-tithing theology. You want to know why, all these doctrines have been existence before you were born.

The question is, of what use is the argument, when great preachers have been teaching these doctrines for decades. Is it frosbel and co, that will put an end to these teachings? I wonder.

Wishing a very prosperous new year.

God bless you.

God2man.

Let me do what your friends do not have the courage to do, address your comment point by point.

First off, you say that a movie about hell converted souls to Christ. But wait a second, is this biblical ?

Let us compare this with biblical conversion.

"The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple." - Psalm 19:7

"and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." - 2 Timothy 3:15

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9

As we can see from the scripture quoted above , only the preaching of the WORD of GOD can save the soul of MAN, a revelation of the LOVE of GOD to the lost souls of MEN.

God never and I repeat never uses FEAR as a tool, only the devil does.

Why ? , are you surprised at the rate of backsliding in the church , of course it will happen, when they are converted by man made false methods such as a false movie based more on fiction than fact.

Guys, go back to the bible this 2013, throw away all the tradition you have learnt and ask God for more wisdom and a humble heart to learn.


Secondly, you are issuing a veiled threat , suggesting rather funnily , that we should not challenge certain doctrines such as the tithe and hell dogmas , because they are set in stone, not by JESUS , but my tradition. Well 'ol chap, some of us are Bereans and will challenge all things, test all things, prove all things and only accept those things that stand up to the scrutiny of the word of GOD.

Thus far , all the issues you mentioned , Tithe, HELL for eternity , and the Trinity are based more on Catholic fanciful thinking that the truth of scripture.

Read your bible.

alexleo:

Yeah you are right. Insults arises as a result of their failure. See how they are shying away from a simple assignment i gave them. Cheap gospellers. When the battle goes tough they run for their dear life.

Run ?

I suggest you stop this blatant display of dishonesty, you have refused to use scripture to explain any of the points raised on this false doctrine, all we seem to get is endless emotional tantrums, if you can't debate or cannot defend your positions, take your leave and stop wasting our time.

frosbel:

Run ?

I suggest you stop this blatant display of dishonesty, you have refused to use scripture to explain any of the points raised on this false doctrine, all we seem to get is endless emotional tantrums, if you can't debate or cannot defend your positions, take your leave and stop wasting our time.

Run away soldier. I thought you were battle ready so why are you afraid taking your battle to point i ve challenged you? Why dont also ask Elijah why he did his own with prophets of baal. I thought you said what am doing has no scriptural reference. You people are just playing with hell. I still maintain that if you are sure of the truthfulness of your teaching on this matter do the simple thing i asked you and stop shying away with all those your irrelevant defence.

alexleo:

Run away soldier. I thought you were battle ready so why are you afraid taking your battle to point i ve challenged you? Why dont also ask Elijah why he did his own with prophets of baal. I thought you said what am doing has no scriptural reference. You people are just playing with hell. I still maintain that if you are sure of the truthfulness of your teaching on this matter do the simple thing i asked you and stop shying away with all those your irrelevant defence.

Don't let me call you a child, if you cannot debate, do the right thing and take your leave, I know that's what your Apostolic faith pastor will advice you to do.

frosbel:

Don't let me call you a child, if you cannot debate, do the right thing and take your leave, I know that's what your Apostolic faith pastor will advice you to do.

dont west you time replying him gain he is trying to derail this thread.

God2man:

There is no need for insult, it is always an evidence of a lost argument when it started.

In 1974 the film "Burning hell" was made, this film has converted so many souls into God'S Kingdom. Frankly speaking, there are some doctrine that should never be debated or argued, anti-hellish messages, anti-trinity doctrine, anti-tithing theology. You want to know why, all these doctrines have been existence before you were born.

The question is, of what use is the argument, when great preachers have been teaching these doctrines for decades. Is it frosbel and co, that will put an end to these teachings? I wonder.

Wishing a very prosperous new year.

God bless you.

God2man.

i agree totally with you bro..these are timeless truth and principles of the kingdom that are not subject to logical reasonings and twisting of scriptures we call debates..and these principles have been proven to be true by prophets and apostles God sent to edify the body of Christ...I'd rather listen to what Jesus is saying to the Church than listen to these guys who manipulate scriptures to suit their "appetites" thereby neglecting deeper intimacy with the Lord Jesus. Thank God for the Gift of the Holy Spirit of promise.(1 john2: 27).

Bidam: i agree totally with you bro..these are timeless truth and principles of the kingdom that are not subject to logical reasonings and twisting of scriptures we call debates..and these principles have been proven to be true by prophets and apostles God sent to edify the body of Christ...I'd rather listen to what Jesus is saying to the Church than listen to these guys who manipulate scriptures to suit their "appetites" thereby neglecting deeper intimacy with the Lord Jesus. Thank God for the Gift of the Holy Spirit of promise.(1 john2: 27).

Then it shouldn't be that difficult to show from the bible how the prophets and apostles taught these "timeless" truths, though history shows the prophets, jews and apostles didn't believe these things.

TroGunn:

Then it shouldn't be that difficult to show from the bible how the prophets and apostles taught these "timeless" truths, though history shows the prophets, jews and apostles didn't believe these things.

prophets, jews and apostles you say Dnt even go there bro... Mayb d jews..but never d prophets and apostles.