What scripture? When did the "church" usurp the role of the holy Spirit?

The one that was compiled and defined (as in everyone holds it to be scripture today based on the Church's authority) to be scripture by the Church.

~Lady~:

The one that was compiled and defined (as in everyone holds it to be scripture today based on the Church's authority) to be scripture by the Church.

What verse in that scripture authorizes the church to be the interpreter of the words of Christ?

Ye right! Like bowing down to graven images and using the bronze serpent as his excuse? Or by giving the hyperdulia worship to Mary? I don't know where He was accused of doing the same as the Catholic Church in these matters.

Matthew 9:34

But the Pharisees said, "It is by the prince of demons that he drives out demons"

Ma'am you may have forgotten that Jesus was accused of worshipping demons. But the above verse is a reminder.

What verse in that scripture authorizes the church to be the interpreter of the words of Christ?

Oh I don't know, maybe the pillar and foundation or truth part. I may be missing something about truth.

Ye right! Like bowing down to graven images and using the bronze serpent as his excuse? Or by giving the hyperdulia worship to Mary? I don't know where He was accused of doing the same as the Catholic Church in these matters.

Matthew 9:34

But the Pharisees said, "It is by the prince of demons that he drives out demons"

Ma'am you may have forgotten that Jesus was accused of worshipping demons. But the above verse is a reminder.

What verse in that scripture authorizes the church to be the interpreter of the words of Christ?

mOh I don't know maybe the pillar and foundation of truth part.

~Lady~:

Ma'am you may have forgotten that Jesus was accused of worshipping demons. But the above verse is a reminder.

Lol, you're a wonderful interpreter!   Where did they accuse Jesus of worshipping demons? And which one of the Catholic definition did you find there among dulia, hyperdulia, and latria?

Edit:

In other words, if they accused Jesus of such (worshipping demons), does that mean the Catholic Church does the same?

Lol, you're a wonderful interpreter! Where did they accuse Jesus of worshipping demons? And which one of the Catholic definition did you find there among dulia, hyperdulia, and latria?

Lol, you may not understand that when someone says that it is through the prince of demons that you cast out demons it means you are in cohorts demons, and if it is by the power of the prince then the prince is the one being worshipped.

In other words, if they accused Jesus of such (worshipping demons), does that mean the Catholic Church does the same?

Lol, nice try. It means as Jesus was accused so are we. Accusing does not mean that the accusation is true. Unless you're trying to say that Jesus worshipped demons.

@Pilgrim.1: « #497 on: September 29, 2008, 02:43 PM »

Quote from: olabowale on September 29, 2008, 02:30 PM
Just my casual observation, as a layman and a beginning student of religion:

As I read the summation of that verse, Matt 23 Verse, as it is presented above, I will take it that Jesus was the speaker. But his instruction was that "NO MAN," (any male) on earth, should be called "FATHER." If we have to follow it, what was Joseph the Capenter to him? What do we humans, sons and daughters of our mothers call the men who sired us? Are they not our fathers? Are we, all of us, Christians and nonchristians and oh yes, Jesus himself guilty of this direct injusction from the lips of "Master" Jesus? This is an impossible commandment to obey, if you are a daughter or a son of a man still on earth! Fortunately, my father had long passed. May Allah the Almight make him one of the people of Jannah! Amin. So to all the believing males and females (fathers and mothers), who had passed on as Muslims. Amin.



The word "even" throws a dart that stuck on that sentence. It is not clear, what the meaning is clearly. As I read it, it is leading me to believe that but arent you (many from among the people) called Rabbi? And then begin to say that there is a single Master. Even Christ and you (the people) are brethren (brethren as same people; homogenous in culture and language). You will see with better clarity as you read the verse that speaks about God, just below.



Here, you will see that the language of instruction is very clear. Forget for a moment of father, that I disagree with. It is very clear, however there could not be a dart thrown on this verse, as the other one above that starts out with a muddled effect as one read it. There is no "Even" as a word here. It very clear as a bell, who is been identified as being in heaven. Unfortunately the title of father is wrong and it is impossible to make it unique here, for all the males who boy a child qualifies as a father!



My point on verse is better illustrated when the above is examined. If the word masters were used before Jesus spoke this verse 10, we must be in agreement that there is nothing unique about that title, even as it is further written with upper case M! But the word even but out the smoke that somebody may mistake for a raging inferno.

If a person were to read in a newsprint or some other nonreligious piece, which will invoke a far less emotion, one will not for a moment say the quanity that follows the word "EVEN," is thought of as the single entity that is been made to absorb the quality that is being spoken of, in a loving way, before the word "Even," was written.

We must all have heard at least a person say the word, "EVEN," in a sentence to emphasis that the entity that follows the word even, is not excluded, but rather incorprated into the entity previously spoken about in the action that was prevailing before even, as a word was written.

Let me use the word even in a sentence to show that no one of the entities will have a higher previlege that the others, even though they occur before or after the word even; The wind that was blowing as the rain heavily poured on us, made everyone in the car felt will be blown off the road; even the driver! This simple means that everyone in the car had the same single opinion.



Shouldn't the semitic materials be the better sources of information, on New Testament verses, rather than labor terrible to use Greek? Not same lange and not same land. Jesus was no greek and his land was not being ruled by the Greece. What came to him and how he preached, neither was in greek language. If Jesus were to be alive,right now, whta would he do if he knows that Semitic language is abandoned for Greek, when people speak about his ministry, his works?

It is interesting that I see that master and Master are exactly the same in Greek. Do we truly know what the Hedonic or Helennic people have done to please their raw emotion to that they could fit Jesus mission to their own culture of man made gods they used to worship?


@Olabowale,

Good afternoon. I have repeatedly said that I have respected you Muslims thus far and never been interested to type anything in your Muslim section. If that cannot go down well with you, no worries. If someone from the Christian section was to go over to the muslim section to question who allah was, the thread would either disappear, the poster would be banned pronto, or the post itself would be deleted. All these issues are clearly confirming the obvious - and that is why I have bid farewell to a religion that is not satisfied with itself until it has demonstrated its restlessness towards other people.

I make two observarions in your entry above:
1). When you were a muslim, was "Allah," an idol to you and would you say that you were an idolator, at that time? And please explain yourself.

Now that you are a Christian, a you now clear of idolatry? Please explain yourself. Aburo, I am not in control of nairaland. If it was left to me, I will leave everything to the participants/discussants to hatch it out. The only request I would have made is that they should supply their sources of information, otherwise they will deemed as liars, playing on peoples emotion with deceitful and uncouth tactics.

When I left Islam, I knew what it meant for someone to know that Jesus is Lord. I still confess Him as Lord, regardless whatever anyone on planet earth would say against Him. I still know that Moses and all the other peophets who knew God as FATHER were not lying. I still enjoy the ministry of the Holy Spirit in my daily living.

Aburo, I will like you to tell us what it means to know that Jesus is lord? That shouldn't be too difficult. You have strength and I admire stong women. So don't disappoint me, in your presentation.

What has pilgrim.1 done to muslims that they would not let me be?!?

What has pilgrim.1 done to Muslims that they would not let me be?!?

What has pilgrim.1 done to muslims that they would not let me be?!?

If you must force yourself to keep denying what the prophets have taught, what is my worry? I left Islam, it did me no good at all - and your attitude is confirming it on a daily basis. . . yet I'm not coming back.

Is merely talking to you, in my meekly way that harsh? Sorry to hear it. I have discussed with many who have felt the need to reexamined their core belief and try to find a better connection to God, the Creator. If you do good is for your own benefit.

I would rather remain a Christian who has known the love of God the Father than to return to a restless religion that will not let others be. As others have observed, you're only fighting a lost battle! Enjoy.

Pilgrim.1, there is no losing battle in my life. Where i lost, God will give me a great victory without even preparing for the battle. We are brothers and sisters from our common ancestors, Adam (AS) and his wife Hawa. Is there a love lost her? Common, cheer up. Wa shi bami soro. Boko rokun, korosa, apada bo seti ebute.

Jesus is Lord.

Jesus is Lord.

Far from the truth when he has a Creator who does not die!

@Olabowale,

olabowale:

1). When you were a muslim, was "Allah," an idol to you and would you say that you were an idolator, at that time? And please explain yourself.

What is there to explain, Olabowale? When I made an effort to tell my story and explain that same thing, you guys exhibited your restlessness until the thread was locked. It wasn't as if there was a competition in sharing one's testimony, but it surprised me that it played out just as a few people offline have warned me. I learnt from that experience, and can only thank God for the wisdom of those ladies who raised the warning (stubborn me, I didn't heed them in time). But since then, I have taken their advice to not waste time engaging you guys where you won't be reasonable. So, please understand why you're wasting your time forcing all this effort to show the same restlessness.

olabowale:

Wa shi bami soro. Boko rokun, korosa, apada bo seti ebute.

I wasn't ignoring you. The one thing I won't do is start arguing aimlessly with you. I know it must have been tough to disgest the news that someone who was raised as a muslimah could be changed: and thereto, I have received all sorts of insults on my person and parents. Yet, I am learning through it all to love the same people who feel that way - because I know and have been where they are now. Olabowale, I cherish the friendships that God has blessed me with since sharing my story - and I'm going to treasure the advice of one of them who dissuaded me entering any arguments. If there's talk, I can choose to join in or quietly observe. But if it has an undertone of insults and brewing for arguments, I will simply fold myself away from there.

God blessing - Jesus loves you.

Man should not assume the role of God. We have no power to forgive sins but to only forgive people when we are offended; that is what John 20:22-23 means. Do not interprete the Bible for selfish interests. Another thing that baffles me is the honors and prayers constantly offered to Mary, the mother of Jesus. Read revelations and tell me when all glory, all honor, all power, all might, all praise, all adoration, all greatness, etc., was ascribed to Mary but the One who was, who is, and who is to come. Catholics should begin to read their Bibles, and stop adhering to the norms and traditions of the Roman empire in the renaissance era.

JeSoul: I shall draw this discussion to an end with this,
true bible believing christians believe that the bible does not contain any errors or inconsistencies!

and we believe this not becos humans are above error, but becos God is above error and He is more than able to ensure the survival and integrity of His word all thru thousands of yrs. These so-called inconsistencies usually fall flat when read in context, compared and lined up with other scriptures etc.



That's the point Imhotep! they are not Paul's words! It's the word of God spoken through Paul. Regardless of who wrote or spoke it, it is all inspired by the HolySpirit and is scripture and it therefore cannot contradict each other.
If you hold that it can contain errors then I don't see how you can call it the word of God or inspired. Is our God now too small to write a book and make sure that everything lined up? that there were no errors?
Is that the kind of god you serve? one that can't keep his story straight in a simple book?
No, that is not the God who split the red sea, who stop the sun in its tracks and made it go back, who flooded the earth, who resuced Daniel, who did so many great and wondrous things.
The catholic church is saying this God cannot keep his story straight in a mere book?

Why do you have female pastors?