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Re: Catholics And Confession by Cassiel(f): 11:52pm On Mar 05, 2008
Wow.Imhotep and JeSoul,you guys have taken this to another level.Not that i blame you,JeSoul.Wholly Imhotep's fault grin I just wanted to understand why as a catholic one has to go to confession only on saturdays to confess to a priest,and understand why the catholic church doesn't encourage its members to go directly to God on their own,confess their sins and ask for forgiveness, which is what the bible teaches,and what God himself wants.Till now Imhotep, i still don't understand why because nobody has been able to give a clear,comprehensive and concise explanation.Instead you're talking about historical,canonical,symbolic and rational ways of studying the bible.Anyway,if any of your ways can explain my question,no wahala.But so far,i ain't seen nothing. What is the point of confessing to a priest when God says i should come directly to Him?
Re: Catholics And Confession by henry007(m): 11:58pm On Mar 05, 2008
i'd really like 2 know sef.
Re: Catholics And Confession by Lady2(f): 5:56am On Mar 06, 2008
@ cassiel

i suggest u read James 5:16 which directs us to confess to each other and pray for each other. it is biblical.

if your all against confessing sins then u shouldn't see anything wrong with a man murdering someone and then going home at night to confess to God and have that be all.
When our leaders steal we should be satisfied that they go home and get on their knees and confess to God, so please don't pursue OBJ or Atiku or Igbinedion or Alami, am sure they have sought God's forgiveness and therefore we should just let them be.

If u believe the notion that the priest does the forgiving then u don't understand the catholic church, and even at that, the bible does say that whatever u bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, this also gives us the authority to cast out demons and such,
if u have a problem with the sins being absolved then u must also have a problem with the judgement from the court of law and we all know that God has directed us to respect the laws of the land.

this is really outrageous, in ur quest to disprove the cathlic church u commit a sin urself. u judge and we are commanded not to judge lest we be judged, seriously christians, remove the stick in ur eye before u can remove that of ur brother's. if u want to understand why the catholic church practices certain things and u really want to know if this is based on the bible then i suggest u attend a Rite of Christian Initiaton for Adult class for a year. I also suggest that u become acquainted with the catholic bible and catechism. U also cannot condemn the catholic bible because this is where ur bible originated from, if u have a problem with it then u must reject ur bible as well and come up with a council to decide the books of the bible that are appropriate and it must not include any of the books in the current bible.

this is ridiculous
Re: Catholics And Confession by Biafran(f): 11:16am On Mar 06, 2008
@ ~Lady~
God bless your soul,

@Cassiel and the likes,
Be careful what you say & quote lest you endanger your soul

You don't have to see everything and be convinced before you believe,

The Catholic church teaches from three sources:

1. The Scared scriptures of which the bible is one
2. Sacred traditions, passed down from the apostles (and don't go asking where it is in the bible)
3. Divine revelations

Know yea these things and refrain from being judgemental,

And please, give us Catholics a breathing space,

You say you want to know why we do this and that, all the explanations that have been proferred so far don't mean anything to you, you still keep asking over and over,

In my opinion, you're not ready to know, you just want to make mockery of the church, but i would advice you to be careful,

The best thing you can do for someone is to pray for the person, sincere prayer, and leave the rest to God, the altimate Judge,rather than castigate!

Once again, be careful please,
Re: Catholics And Confession by PLC: 12:45pm On Mar 06, 2008
@ty4real,

You are i[b]diot! slowpoke! [/b] What do you hope to get from this pointless debate? You only want to debase other denominations.

@Imhotep,

Allow the Poster and [b]JeSoul [/b]to continue to wallow in ignorance. They are fools. I’m sure this debate is born out of hatred and criticism.
Re: Catholics And Confession by JeSoul(f): 2:22pm On Mar 06, 2008
imhotep:

Good. But if we do not define what we mean by scripture, we cannot adequately address these questions.

You're doing the electric slide around my very simple question. Lets just say scripture whether it is all the catholic books& canons or whatever or the protestant bible alone - whichever

1. Can scripture contradict scripture? whether it is the catholic bible or the protestant 66 books?

2. Is all of scripture equally the word of God?

once you answer these two questions we can really move forward in this discussion.
Re: Catholics And Confession by JeSoul(f): 2:30pm On Mar 06, 2008
Cassiel:

Till now Imhotep, i still don't understand why because nobody has been able to give a clear,comprehensive and concise explanation.

lol. . . My sister don't hold your breath becos there is no answer, that's why instead of answering the simple questions they keep on "getting offended" or getting angry we're "bashing catholics".
If you cannot logically and scripturally prove your beliefs, and reach a conclusion that does not directly contradict another part of scripture then something is wrong somewhere.

Instead you're talking about historical,canonical,symbolic and rational ways of studying the bible.
Lol. . . na so I see am my sister.
Re: Catholics And Confession by JeSoul(f): 2:34pm On Mar 06, 2008
~Lady~:

@ cassiel

i suggest u read James 5:16 which directs us to confess to each other and pray for each other. it is biblical.
*shaking my head* uhm no.
that is a misuse of that verse. It says to confess your faults and pray for each other. . . it does NOT say we forgive each others sins! those are two very different things.

here's another example of a conclusion drawn based on one scripture when a million other scriptures contradict this conclusion that it is God alone who forgives sins.
Re: Catholics And Confession by Maykelly(f): 3:50pm On Mar 06, 2008
PLC:

@ty4real,

You are i[b]diot! slowpoke! [/b] What do you hope to get from this pointless debate? You only want to debase other denominations.

@Imhotep,

Allow the Poster and JeSoul [/b]to continue to wallow in ignorance. They are fools. I’m sure this debate is born out of hatred and criticism.


[b]JUST IMAGINE THIS sad THESE PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT CONFESSING SIN TO ONE ANOTHER YET THEY ARE COMMITTING SIN - The Bible says ANY WHO CALLS ONE FOOL IS IN DANGER OF HELL FIRE.

YOU THINK YOUR FIGHTING FOR GOD - BUT THE BIBLE SAYS "THE BATTLE IS FOR THE LORD"

YOU THINK YOUR DOING GOD FAVOUR - THE BIBLE SAYS "DO NOT JUDGE"

PLS STOP ACCUSING ONE RELIGION AND ANOTHER JUST LIKE THE DEVIL "WHEN ACCUSING THE CHILDREN OF GOD BEFORE GOD"
Re: Catholics And Confession by ty4real(m): 6:12pm On Mar 06, 2008
PLC:

@ty4real,

You are i[b]diot! slowpoke! [/b] What do you hope to get from this pointless debate? You only want to debase other denominations.

@Imhotep,

Allow the Poster and JeSoul [/b]to continue to wallow in ignorance. They are fools. I’m sure this debate is born out of hatred and criticism.



See your life on the ground!I aint an slowpoke I am absolutely agile and strong!
Me Idiot *******shior************* I guess its [b]what senseless kids like you do grin grin grin
O ma burn ni! senseless agbaya
Look if I start with you,you will want to commit suicide grin grin
Re: Catholics And Confession by ty4real(m): 6:16pm On Mar 06, 2008
May kelly:

JUST IMAGINE THIS sad THESE PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT CONFESSING SIN TO ONE ANOTHER YET THEY ARE COMMITTING SIN - The Bible says ANY WHO CALLS ONE FOOL IS IN DANGER OF HELL FIRE.

YOU THINK YOUR FIGHTING FOR GOD - BUT THE BIBLE SAYS "THE BATTLE IS FOR THE LORD"

YOU THINK YOUR DOING GOD FAVOUR - THE BIBLE SAYS "DO NOT JUDGE"

PLS STOP ACCUSING ONE RELIGION AND ANOTHER JUST LIKE THE DEVIL "WHEN ACCUSING THE CHILDREN OF GOD BEFORE GOD"

I confess my sins o jare grin grin grin!Needed to put that senseless, fool sorry o jare in his proper place,enjoys insulting people and parading himself as the ancient of days on this forum cool cool
That was a nice post sha! wink wink
Re: Catholics And Confession by Cassiel(f): 9:51pm On Mar 06, 2008
JeSoul:

*shaking my head* uhm no.
that is a misuse of that verse. It says to confess your faults and pray for each other. . . it does NOT say we forgive each others sins! those are two very different things.
Thank you o,my sister.I'm really amazed by some people,i tell you.
Re: Catholics And Confession by Nobody: 9:55pm On Mar 06, 2008
JeSoul:

You're doing the electric slide around my very simple question. Lets just say scripture whether it is all the catholic books& canons or whatever or the protestant bible alone - whichever

1. Can scripture contradict scripture? whether it is the catholic bible or the protestant 66 books?

2. Is all of scripture equally the word of God?

once you answer these two questions we can really move forward in this discussion.
/
Not at electric dance at all, but issues to be clarified.

- Since there appears to be two sets of scriptures, why should I choose one and reject the other?
- What informs my decision to choose one and reject the other?

- What stops me, imhotep, from assembling a collection of ancient manuscripts that appeal to me personally - and declaring them to be scripture also
Re: Catholics And Confession by Cassiel(f): 10:02pm On Mar 06, 2008
PLC:

@ty4real,

You are i[b]diot! slowpoke! [/b] What do you hope to get from this pointless debate? You only want to debase other denominations.

@Imhotep,

Allow the Poster and JeSoul [/b]to continue to wallow in ignorance. They are fools. I’m sure this debate is born out of hatred and criticism.

Oga PLC,if you are a catholic,you are really not being a good ambassador.If you had followed this thread carefully,you would have seen that all i did was ask for a simple explanation on an issue i wasn't clear on.And i still havn't gotten that explanation.So that now makes me a fool? Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother [ Some manuscripts-brother without cause] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, [ An Aramaic term of contempt] ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. [b]But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
May God help your soul.
Re: Catholics And Confession by Nobody: 10:17pm On Mar 06, 2008
angry cry
Re: Catholics And Confession by JeSoul(f): 3:24pm On Mar 07, 2008
imhotep:

/
Not at electric dance at all, but issues to be clarified.

- Since there appears to be two sets of scriptures, why should I choose one and reject the other?
- What informs my decision to choose one and reject the other?

- What stops me, imhotep, from assembling a collection of ancient manuscripts that appeal to me personally - and declaring them to be scripture also

you're still not getting where I'm headed. We're not talking about validating which set of scripture is the true one right now.
Lets just say for discussion sake that the catholic canon and bible are the "true" scriptures. Okay.
Now these are the scriptures that you believe in right? good. Biafran had listed them above as: 1.The bible 2.Sacred traditions and 3.Divine revelations

Now:
1. Can your scripture contradict another part of your scripture?

2. Is all of this catholic canon/scripture equally the word of God?

I think these questions are very straightforward and easily have yes or no answers. Thanks.
Re: Catholics And Confession by Nobody: 3:56pm On Mar 07, 2008
@Jesoul
I still think we have to properly define what we mean by scripture.

Nevertheless, I will address question (1) as follows ->

JeSoul:

1. Can scripture contradict another part of scripture?
Let me refer you to this article --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_consistency_and_the_Bible.
A boolean yes/no is a naive way of addressing this.



JeSoul:

2. Is all of this scripture equally the word of God?
The answer to this question is hiding inside the 'answer' to question (1).
Re: Catholics And Confession by JeSoul(f): 4:40pm On Mar 07, 2008
Imhotep, now we're getting somewhere. . . smiley

I read ur link and this was my response. . . shocked
I quote from ur link "The Roman Catholic Christian view (especially since the Second Vatican Council) holds that the Bible is inerrant only in the things that God intended to reveal, the inconsistencies being deemed not to belong to these, or being deemed to be figurative and/or allegory."

Cassiel I think we finally have our answer!

The catholic church believes only the parts of the bible that don't contradict their traditions. They therefore can claim to justify all these extra and contra-biblical teachings becos those "parts" of the bible were probably "figurative" and not meant to be applied literally.
So therefore when all those millions of verse say that God alone forgives sins - they were not really meant to be taken literally.
But when Jn 20 said the apostles forgives and people will be forgiven, they take it literally. They apparently have picked which parts of the scriptures to deem acceptable or not, meant to be taken literally or not. and this selection appears to be based on whether or not that particular verse contradicts their own traditions or canon.
WOW! shocked to any bible-believing christian this is just plain sad.
Re: Catholics And Confession by Nobody: 4:44pm On Mar 07, 2008
JeSoul:

Imhotep, now we're getting somewhere. . . smiley

I read your link and this was my response. . . shocked
I quote from your link "The Roman Catholic Christian view (especially since the Second Vatican Council) holds that the Bible is inerrant only in the things that God intended to reveal, the inconsistencies being deemed not to belong to these, or being deemed to be figurative and/or allegory."
Good. The issue at stake is -> 'inconsistencies in the bible'

JeSoul:

Cassiel I think we finally have our answer!

The catholic church believes only the parts of the bible that don't contradict their traditions. They therefore can claim to justify all these extra and contra-biblical teachings because those "parts" of the bible were probably "figurative" and not meant to be applied literally.
So therefore when all those millions of verse say that God alone forgives sins - they were not really meant to be taken literally.
But when Jn 20 said the apostles forgives and people will be forgiven, they take it literally. They apparently have picked which parts of the scriptures to deem acceptable or not, meant to be taken literally or not. and this selection appears to be based on whether or not that particular verse contradicts their own traditions or canon.
WOW! shocked to any bible-believing christian this is just plain sad.
@Jesoul
This conclusion of yours is very very far away from what the article is saying.

We are also YET to answer your two questions.

----------------------------------------------------
When you find yourself using Paul to neutralize the words of Jesus, think again. Paul cannot contradict his Master.
Were Paul's letters an attempt at interpreting the four Gospels?
Re: Catholics And Confession by JeSoul(f): 5:04pm On Mar 07, 2008
I shall draw this discussion to an end with this,
true bible believing christians believe that the bible does not contain any errors or inconsistencies!

and we believe this not becos humans are above error, but becos God is above error and He is more than able to ensure the survival and integrity of His word all thru thousands of yrs. These so-called inconsistencies usually fall flat when read in context, compared and lined up with other scriptures etc.

imhotep:

Good. The issue at stake is -> 'inconsistencies in the bible'
When you find yourself using Paul to neutralize the words of Jesus, think again. Paul cannot contradict his Master.
Were Paul's letters an attempt at interpreting the four Gospels?

That's the point Imhotep! they are not Paul's words! It's the word of God spoken through Paul. Regardless of who wrote or spoke it, it is all inspired by the HolySpirit and is scripture and it therefore cannot contradict each other.
If you hold that it can contain errors then I don't see how you can call it the word of God or inspired. Is our God now too small to write a book and make sure that everything lined up? that there were no errors?
Is that the kind of god you serve? one that can't keep his story straight in a simple book?
No, that is not the God who split the red sea, who stop the sun in its tracks and made it go back, who flooded the earth, who resuced Daniel, who did so many great and wondrous things.
The catholic church is saying this God cannot keep his story straight in a mere book?
Re: Catholics And Confession by Nobody: 5:11pm On Mar 07, 2008
JeSoul:

I shall draw this discussion to an end with this,
true bible believing christians believe that the bible does not contain any errors or inconsistencies!

and we believe this not because humans are above error, but because God is above error and He is more than able to ensure the survival and integrity of His word all through thousands of years. These so-called inconsistencies usually fall flat when read in context, compared and lined up with other scriptures etc.
These beliefs look dogmatic to me. Sound biblical scholarship does not hurry to take this position.


JeSoul:

That's the point Imhotep! they are not Paul's words! It's the word of God spoken through Paul. Regardless of who wrote or spoke it, it is all inspired by the HolySpirit and is scripture and it therefore cannot contradict each other.
If you hold that it can contain errors then I don't see how you can call it the word of God or inspired. Is our God now too small to write a book and make sure that everything lined up? that there were no errors?
Read the article once again, calmly. Wikipedia is a balanced website - if it was biased, I will never recommend it to you or anybody.

JeSoul:

Is that the kind of god you serve? one that can't keep his story straight in a simple book?
No, that is not the God who split the red sea, who stop the sun in its tracks and made it go back, who flooded the earth, who resuced Daniel, who did so many great and wondrous things.
The catholic church is saying this God cannot keep his story straight in a mere book?
The Infinite God cannot be contained in any book whatsoever.
Christ did not write any book. He set up THE Church. He then delegated His own Authority to this Church. The bible,whether Catholic or Protestant, stands on the Authority of THIS Church.
This is why careless and arbitrary interpretation of the bible (Cath. or Prot.) has led many astray.
Re: Catholics And Confession by JeSoul(f): 5:21pm On Mar 07, 2008
human scholarship? vs the absolute inerrancy of the Almighty God and His word?
human reasoning vs the fact that God can never be wrong or make a mistake?
shocked

I don't think there's anything else I have to add to this thread.
Re: Catholics And Confession by Nobody: 5:26pm On Mar 07, 2008
JeSoul:

human scholarship? vs the absolute inerrancy of the Almighty God and His word?
human reasoning vs the fact that God can never be wrong or make a mistake?
shocked

I don't think there's anything else I have to add to this thread.
@Jesoul
God is rational.

I still suggest you read the (balanced) Wikipedia article once more - calmly.

Then you can answer your 2 questions easily.
Re: Catholics And Confession by Cassiel(f): 6:35pm On Mar 07, 2008
@JeSoul
Wow.You and Imhotep sure ran with this,lol grin grin. And i can see that now Imhotep isn't as vehement and sure as he was when this started.Nice work,girl.I have my answer-its not necessary to confess my sins to a priest when i can go directly to God. I believe no catholic can disprove that statement since so far,no one has.
@Imhotep
I admire the way you defended your denomination to the best of your ability.I happen to belong to the catholic circle and i see no reason for the confession thingy because i study my bible thoroughly and i've seen what God says about confessing sins.That's why i wanted an explanation as to why catholics deem it necessary.I've got a whole lot more personal issues with the catholic faith,but i guess i'd better not bring any more up before i'm practically crucified on this forum grin grin grin.Perhaps catholicism is just not for me.God bless grin
Re: Catholics And Confession by Nobody: 9:00pm On Mar 07, 2008
Cassiel:

@JeSoul
Wow.You and Imhotep sure ran with this,lol grin grin. And i can see that now Imhotep isn't as vehement and sure as he was when this started.Nice work,girl.I have my answer-its not necessary to confess my sins to a priest when i can go directly to God. I believe no catholic can disprove that statement since so far,no one has.
@Imhotep
I admire the way you defended your denomination to the best of your ability.I happen to belong to the catholic circle and i see no reason for the confession thingy because i study my bible thoroughly and i've seen what God says about confessing sins.That's why i wanted an explanation as to why catholics deem it necessary.I've got a whole lot more personal issues with the catholic faith,but i guess i'd better not bring any more up before i'm practically crucified on this forum grin grin grin.Perhaps catholicism is just not for me.God bless grin
@Cassiel
Is your faith based on an argument in an internet forum?
Re: Catholics And Confession by Cassiel(f): 9:38pm On Mar 07, 2008
@Imhotep
No dearie,its not.I had my answer a long time ago,i just wanted to see if any catholic could disprove it,that's all.And none could.So my previous conviction is even stronger. grin grin
Re: Catholics And Confession by Nobody: 9:45pm On Mar 07, 2008
Cool. Just as there are 33,000 protestant denominations with about 33,000 answers also.
Re: Catholics And Confession by Cassiel(f): 9:55pm On Mar 07, 2008
@Imhotep
And your point is? I'm talking catholic here.Hello?
Re: Catholics And Confession by Nobody: 9:57pm On Mar 07, 2008
Cassiel:

@Imhotep
And your point is? I'm talking catholic here.Hello?

Cassiel:
@Imhotep
No dearie,its not.I had my answer a long time ago,i just wanted to see if any catholic could disprove it,that's all.And none could.So my previous conviction is even stronger.
@Cassiel

Please take that again. How do u mean -> 'talking catholic'
Re: Catholics And Confession by Cassiel(f): 10:01pm On Mar 07, 2008
imhotep:

Cool. Just as there are 33,000 protestant denominations with about 33,000 answers also.
What do protestants have to do with my question when i'm lookin for a catholic answer?
Re: Catholics And Confession by Nobody: 10:02pm On Mar 07, 2008
Cassiel:

What do protestants have to do with my question when i'm lookin for a catholic answer?
@Cassiel
Were you expecting a catholic to disprove confession from scripture
Re: Catholics And Confession by Cassiel(f): 10:09pm On Mar 07, 2008
@Imhotep
No,i waz expecting a catholic to prove confession from the scriptures beyond reasonable doubt.I wanted something that would tell me,''Yes Cassiel, its accurate.You should confess only to a priest on saturdays''. And i did not get that.

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