The following is culled from a conversation. Feel free to share your thoughts, insights, misgivings or outright disagreements as the case may be.


About our discussion, I find it extremely difficult to "counter" Scriptures. When a person presents a portion of the Bible as support for a particular viewpoint, I prefer to present other portions of Scripture, if any, that "appear" to contradict those ones. My reason is that if the person is truly after the Truth, they will get on their knees before the Lord and pray for Light in their understanding. That way, their encounter with the Truth will be a true inward and eternal experience unlike what arguing doggedly would've done. That does not mean that I consider argument a bad thing but that I'm certain arguing never brings anyone into the Truth. It does, however, test the persons involved as to how much of the Truth they have come into enabling those blessed with Humility to keep after the On-high calling.

I say all that to explain why I am reluctant to address the passages you have presesnted as you probably prefer that I do.

Ok, now, Jesus Himself said a great deal of stuff that would leave anyone afraid that being born again is an impermanent experience that one must continuously strive to preserve. Some of that stuff you already pointed out in your statement about one who put his hand on the plough and looked back and therefore became unworthy of the Kingdom. Other stuff includes threats like the servant found living unworthily would be thrown out to be among hypocrites, and one invited to the wedding banquet but was found without wedding garments etc etc. Paul's writings also include statements like striving to make our election sure and probably (if indeed he authored the letter to the Hebrews) the part about never being restored again if one had tasted of the powers of the world to come and tasted of the Holy Spirit as well as the other part about those who deliberately continue to sin after they had received knowledge of the Truth being without hope of any more redemption. All over the New Testament, there are warnings to not take this Salvation we have been given so freely lightly. But, does it explicitly state anywhere that it is actually possible for one who has been born from above to lose their new lives? What do you think?

I think that you will find that it is not. There are actually two kinds of very grave warnings that are given in the New Testament. One is the warning to not waste the potential of this incredibly great thing we have received in the New Birth; the other is to be wary not to make light of God's offer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The first warning is for children of God's Household, heirs of the Promise and the second for outsiders. Remember that by reason of the Cross, Jesus has been made Lord of everything: even though in active rebellion, Satan's dominions are "officially" His too. This means that even unbelievers albeit unwillingly are subjects of King Jesus. He loves them and died for them and when His message of freedom reaches them, it comes with a warning, 'SEE THAT YOU DO NOT SPITE THIS OFFER FOR IT IS NOT LIGHTLY MADE. IT COST THE LIFE OF THE SON OF GOD!' Of course, He's not pushy and forceful so it is easy to ignore that warning and people do it a lot, eventually lots of them try to match God's offer with some offering of their own. There is nothing worse in God's eyes than a caricature of His Son's sacrifice. And only such as hear the Gospel can attempt to mimic it: there are only two options - take God's offer on His terms or try to match Jesus's sacrifice - after one has heard the Gospel. The tares in the Lord's Field are those who attempt to match that Perfect Sacrifice and they are the ones who are described as having tasted the powers of the world to come and partaken of the Holy Spirit and had kmowledge of the Truth but who trampled the Son of God under foot and treated the blood of the covenant as an unholy thing and insulted the Spirit of Grace. For them the Perfect Sacrifice is a laugh even when they so solemnly try to reproduce it themselves.

About these ones, John said, "...many antichrists have come ... They went out from AMONG us, but they did NOT REALLY belong to us. For IF THEY HAD BELONGED TO US, THEY WOULD HAVE REMAINED WITH US; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." That's 1 John 2:18-19. Those are very definite words, my brother. Even in Hebrews where the most fearful warnings are delivered about walking away from the Faith, a line is drawn. The first instance is right after the very dire warnings of Heb 6:4-6 in verse 9 where the writer goes on to say, 'Even though we speak like this, dear friends, WE ARE CONFIDENT of better things IN YOUR CASE - THINGS THAT ACCOMPANY SALVATION.' And in verse 39 after the equally terrible warnings of Heb 10:26-29 and the terror of v 38, the writer again says, 'BUT we are NOT of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.' Very clear demarcations, I think you'll agree.

There are those for whom salvation is a light matter that only requires some or all of the mighty effort of will, imagination, intellect, emotion or whatever that they can muster to accomplish what the Holy One did. They may study Christ and move in Christian circles, but Jesus is no more than, at best, an example to copy. Such people are in God's eyes as those two sons of Aaron that brought strange fire to the Tabernacle or those that strove with Aaron for the position of High Priest or as Aaron and Miriam coveting Moses's place with God or as the ancient Serpent coveting equality with the Highest One. They are the same as blaspheme the Holy Spirit Who is alone the Seal, the Earnest, the Guarantee, the Substance of Salvation, of our Inheritance, of the Promise. For them, there is no remedy because they have declared God's best not good enough for them. It is a terrifying thing to be in their number but Pride numbs such people to the terror of their position and there are no blinder ones than them in all creation.

First my brother, you and who had this conversation? I'm asking because there're so many aspect one can pick up and discuss on.

Goshen360: First my brother, you and who had this conversation? I'm asking because there're so many aspect one can pick up and discuss on.

Besides, I got your email. Replied you but it didn't deliver. Lemme know when you get my email written down so I can modify this post because of these guys....though me no dey fall for those guys o, NEVER! lolz

I've got it, bro. Please edit your post.

It was with a friend on facebook. It's a running convo at the moment.

Okay.

Goshen360: First my brother, you and who had this conversation? I'm asking because there're so many aspect one can pick up and discuss on.

Goshen360: ^^^ Also edit that part from your quote and let's continue our discussion. Thank you.

Already did, bro.

Your article has many directions but I don't know what angle you want to take discussion from. I kind of agree with almost everything you said. Hence, I do not know if you intend to go further though because you had to stop at a point in order to avoid too many complications.

Goshen360: Your article has many directions but I don't know what angle you want to take discussion from. I kind of agree with almost everything you said. Hence, I do not know if you intend to go further though because you had to stop at a point in order to avoid too many complications.

Not going any further. I copypasted it here so that it could get wider audience. Feel free to address anything and everything in the posts.

[b]The New Birth is a means to an end, not an end in itself. God's Newborn is birthed with so much potential, so much promise and therefore so much responsibility. To speak it with mere human language is not easy, by any means, but the unction of the Highest One teaches us all things.

Romans 8:19-22 is a great help for explaining this. There we are told in very few but clear words that the destiny of the whole creation is riding on the shoulders of those who bear the same Life (or genes, or nature) as God, in other words, SONS of God. We are told in earlier verses that it is because of this that believers suffer divers trials and pressures. Apparently, these trails are supposed to mature this Life that Christians have received. In fact, verse 23 points out that even the pnysical bodies of these sons of God are supposed to be "redeemed" as well. It appears that the work to be done is of the wholistic kind.

God's intent is to bring many sons to maturity so that through them He will not only reclaim creation from the Corruption of Sin but bring it into the Eternal Glory and Destiny He planned for it from Eternity past.[/b]

Unfortunately, many of us Christians were not taught this basic until began to see things are they really are. Those who have been redeem are redeemed by the gift of salvation which is Grace based. There remaineth yet our responsibility by the Holy Spirit though, to renew our mind and put the body under subjection. Our body doesn't change at salvation. We have the same body.

To bring about the wholistic redemption, believers have responsibility to subject and put under control the works of the flesh (body) that was never born again in the salvation of the soul. So, what do we have here? A Christian come to Christ, saved and still follow the dictates of the body knowing there's nothing good in the body. Such is still a Christian but has refused to take responsibility.

Bringing many sons to maturity means, a Child is born, crawls, leaps, walks, stand, run and gets to full maturity. Such is still a son/daughter but complete freedom is obtained at maturity. Lemme leave the readers with this scripture,

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differs nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

New Living Translation (©2007)
Think of it this way. If a father dies and leaves an inheritance for his young children, those children are not much better off than slaves until they grow up (or until they mature; mine added), even though they actually own everything their father had. - Galatians 4:1

Goshen360: [b]The New Birth is a means to an end, not an end in itself. God's Newborn is birthed with so much potential, so much promise and therefore so much responsibility. To speak it with mere human language is not easy, by any means, but the unction of the Highest One teaches us all things.

Romans 8:19-22 is a great help for explaining this. There we are told in very few but clear words that the destiny of the whole creation is riding on the shoulders of those who bear the same Life (or genes, or nature) as God, in other words, SONS of God. We are told in earlier verses that it is because of this that believers suffer divers trials and pressures. Apparently, these trails are supposed to mature this Life that Christians have received. In fact, verse 23 points out that even the pnysical bodies of these sons of God are supposed to be "redeemed" as well. It appears that the work to be done is of the wholistic kind.

God's intent is to bring many sons to maturity so that through them He will not only reclaim creation from the Corruption of Sin but bring it into the Eternal Glory and Destiny He planned for it from Eternity past.[/b]

Unfortunately, many of us Christians were not taught this basic until began to see things are they really are. Those who have been redeem are redeemed by the gift of salvation which is Grace based. There remaineth yet our responsibility by the Holy Spirit though, to renew our mind and put the body under subjection. Our body doesn't change at salvation. We have the same body.

To bring about the wholistic redemption, believers have responsibility to subject and put under control the works of the flesh (body) that was never born again in the salvation of the soul. So, what do we have here? A Christian come to Christ, saved and still follow the dictates of the body knowing there's nothing good in the body. Such is still a Christian but has refused to take responsibility.

Bringing many sons to maturity means, a Child is born, crawls, leaps, walks, stand, run and gets to full maturity. Such is still a son/daughter but complete freedom is obtained at maturity. Lemme leave the readers with this scripture,

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differs nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

New Living Translation (©2007)
Think of it this way. If a father dies and leaves an inheritance for his young children, those children are not much better off than slaves until they grow up (or until they mature; mine added), even though they actually own everything their father had. - Galatians 4:1

The thing about Christianity is that it is a journey. It's not just instantaneous, it's developing. There is the time of being born, then the time of nourishment and growth and increase in experience. There is a lot that the time of our new birth may not have contained, but along the way, we are given more experienced brethren who help us appreciate more and more what we have been born into. That's what the Scriptures mean by encouraging and exhorting one another.

There is such a great deal to learn of Christ that we never really have time to regret what we have missed or misled about. We ought always to be pushing into the things yet ahead, taking all the lessons our mistakes have to teach us and never lying down in the stale pastures of our past victories. For the Christian, the cry is always, "Onward! Ever onward!"

Having read through this thread it still appears that a question remains: what happens to the christian who stops crying "Onward!"? Can you explain in the light of Rev. 3?

Have read it. I'm not sure what you want me to say.

Not moving forward is the waterloo of the Christian, but going back is impossible to him. If one does not take all the opportunity the Lord throws one's way to advance in Christ, in time, one suffers a tremendous loss that cannot be fully described on this side of the divide but it will not include his soul.

Ihedinobi: Have read it. I'm not sure what you want me to say.

Not moving forward is the waterloo of the Christian, but going back is impossible to him. If one does not take all the opportunity the Lord throws one's way to advance in Christ, in time, one suffers a tremendous loss that cannot be fully described on this side of the divide but it will not include his soul.

Could the bolded be what is meant by this verse

Eph 1:13
''In whom ye also trusted,after that ye heard the word of truth,the gospel of your salvation:in whom also after that ye believed,ye were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise''

Are we then sealed just as Noah and his family were sealed in the ark by God until He deemed it necessary to open the ark after the flood?

Mark that we still go back to Romans 6:1-2
''What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin,that grace may abound? God forbid........''

I feel this idea might give license to some to engage in ungodly behavior but i have to remind myself it's not about my feelings but it's all about what God is saying through the scriptures.

i've learnt plenty from the write up already anyway.God bless

A Christian can draw back to perdition, its in the bible

" It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." - Hebrews 6:4-8


1. This Person was enlightened
2. Tasted the Heavenly Gift ( Salvation )
3. Shared the Holy Spirit
4. Tasted the goodness of the Word of GOD


These points are definitely not referring to a sinner or nominal Christian but a 100% saved Christian who drew back to tradition and rejected grace.

frosbel: A Christian can draw back to perdition, its in the bible

you know my brother,that is why i quoted Eph 1:13 and highlighted the Sealing part.i guess i still need to do more study

Candour:

you know my brother,that is why i quoted Eph 1:13 and highlighted the Sealing part.i guess i still need to do more study

Oh Yes, we are Sealed on the day of salvation , but the action of drawing back is never ever of God's doing , it is always us who decide to turn our backs on GOD, hence Paul saying :

"But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved." - Hebrews 10:30

For example God saved the children of Israel but they abandoned him to worship Idols.

God's heart is forever that we are saved to the very end , but if we are not watchful, we could easily be lured back to our former way of life and become hardened through the deceitfulness of SIN.

It can get to a point where we just don't care and want nothing to do with GOD. This is a dangerous place to me.

"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning." - 2 Peter 2:20

frosbel: A Christian can draw back to perdition, its in the bible

" It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." - Hebrews 6:4-8


1. This Person was enlightened
2. Tasted the Heavenly Gift ( Salvation )
3. Shared the Holy Spirit
4. Tasted the goodness of the Word of GOD


These points are definitely not referring to a sinner or nominal Christian but a 100% saved Christian who drew back to tradition and rejected grace.

Noted.

If boxer X hits you, you stay hit.

If God Himself saves you, you stay saved.

So, yes; once saved, always saved.

Let's start with this , the bible was written under the Holy Spirit's guidance. Also, God is the same today, yesterday and forever. Therefore his standards, unlike our standards, remain the same.

Ezekiel 18:24 "But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.

Or

Ezekiel 33:12 "Therefore, son of man, say to your people, 'If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person's former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person's former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.'

I advice no scripture wresting !!

@Candour

I sense that which is Christ in you, brother. This is why I will bother at all to deal with frosbel's response. There are a few on this forum whom I've joined issues with or just couldn't escape knowing and have found to be enemies of the Cross of Christ. They take perverted joy in rending the Scriptures and forcing them to cancel out.

Of their number is frosbel. There are others but only when I have need to do I bother to expose them as such. It is not merely a question of judging but of securing the Gospel.

frosbel: A Christian can draw back to perdition, its in the bible

" It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." - Hebrews 6:4-8


1. This Person was enlightened
2. Tasted the Heavenly Gift ( Salvation )
3. Shared the Holy Spirit
4. Tasted the goodness of the Word of GOD


These points are definitely not referring to a sinner or nominal Christian but a 100% saved Christian who drew back to tradition and rejected grace.

I actually have argued about this bit of Scripture before on this forum, but I don't quite remember the thread. Once I do, I wipl provide the link.

The first folly here is the assumption that this passage says that a Christian or a child of God by the New Birth is the same as one who has been enlightened or has tasted the heavenly gift or shared in the Holy Ghost or tasted of the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age. It says nothing of the sort. Jesus Himself explains that with the parable of the sower and His seed.

But before I get into that, consider Jude particularly the bit in verse 12 which goes

These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm - shepherds who only feed themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted - twice dead.

I encourage you to read the whole letter to understand who these men are. Peter's second letter also focuses on them in its second chapter. In fact, one could almost say that 2Peter 2 is a mirror of Jude and it explains a lot more clearly who the people in question are.

Important to note is that these people are there but do not really belong. Also, both apostles hold that they are perverters of the Gospel.

Now, back to Jesus's parable. The Word or the Gospel, which the Seed in the parable represents came to all the people spoken of, but only one kind of people bore fruit. However, do you remember a part of that parable that resonates with verse 8 in Hebrews 6? It's the part that spoke of thorns and thistles. Remember how Jesus explained that part?

Now compare what Jesus said about the land that brought forth thorns and thistles to what Peter and Jude said about those men. I don't think I need to tell you what you'll find. Just go on and see for yourself.

Now, that's about the first folly. That bit of Scripture cannot be used to say that Christians are people who have tasted of the powers of the world to come etc. However, it can be used to warn people who have indeed tasted of these powers not to despise them. But there is yet one thing I need to point out before moving on.

Right after the section of that chapter @frosbel posted, the author of Hebrews expressed confidence that his readers were of better expectation than all that he'd just written. Why do you think he was confident?

Now, let me explain about the Gospel.

All of us are in darkness by nature. The law of Moses was given to show all mankind how powerless we are by nature to do and live right. We are forever failing and our best efforts are tainted by the worst intentions. Thus our righteousness can never be more than filthy rags. We are slaves to sin.

Now when the Gospel comes, it does something amazing to each one of us who hears it. It actually raises us up in that moment to see another life, another possibility, another reality. It's wonderful news because it comes with proof.

It isn't just the hearing of the physical ears but the actual unveiling spiritually of what is being said. There is enough in that moment for us to know that the Gospel is true and a real alternative. Remember also that our will is normally enslaved by sin. But when the Gospel comes, it is freed.

In the instant that we hear the Gospel, we are restored to Adam's state before the fall, able to choose again between life and death, between Christ and our own self. Some choose Christ and life, others choose self and death. Now, once that choice is made: the acceptance or rejection of the Gospel, destiny is sealed for the person involved. I realize how frightening it os to say that because nobody wants to have only one chance to make the right choice, but you have to understand that the sealing of destiny is not because God is so mean but because however many times after that the Gospel comes to the man who has really seen it the first time, he will continue to reject it and harden himself against it. This is simply the truth.

The true Christian is the one who heard, tasted, and everything else the Gospel and went beyond all that to accept it too. They are the onea who mixed what they heard with faith. They are the ones who are born into the world to come as its citizens and inheritors. They do not only taste of the Holy Spirit, they are joined to Him as one spirit. They are totally one with the Lord in every way. Their life after the day they are born into Christ is all about unfolding the potential of all of this.

This is why the author of Hebrews was so confident of his readership and why Peter and Jude could separate the blemishes at the feast from the feast itself.

I think that I'll make another post offering portions of Scripture that speak of the impossibility of a Christian going back into perdition, not least the last verse of Hebrews 10 which frosbel also quoted. You know, again that verse expressed confidence that the readers weren't the sort to draw back into perdition.

Ihedinobi: @Candour

I sense that which is Christ in you, brother. This is why I will bother at all to deal with frosbel's response. There are a few on this forum whom I've joined issues with or just couldn't escape knowing and have found to be enemies of the Cross of Christ. They take perverted joy in rending the Scriptures and forcing them to cancel out.

Of their number is frosbel. There are others but only when I have need to do I bother to expose them as such. It is not merely a question of judging but of securing the Gospel.

To slash me with the sword of slander is not to be unexpected from you , but hey, I am always obliged to tear down falsehoods and misconceptions of scripture which promote lawlessness and ungodly conduct , chief of which is the once saved always saved doctrine that you erroneously promote.

Remember Calvin the murderer , he is the origin of this LIE.



btw, remember :

"Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." - Matthew 24:11-12

Ihedinobi: . . . . frosbel. . . . .

Oh but he knows it all! Whatever "doctrine" he falls for on any particular day is the all time and ever only "truth".

The saying goes in part "he who knows not and knows not that he knows not . . . . ."

I am ready to take this down to the wire , to prevent this poison from destroying the faith of our beloved brethren.

"when we are slandered, we try to conciliate; we have become as the scum of the world, the dregs of all things, even until now." - 1 Corinthians 4:13

A Christian can draw back to perdition, its in the bible

" It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." - Hebrews 6:4-8


1. This Person was enlightened
2. Tasted the Heavenly Gift ( Salvation )
3. Shared the Holy Spirit
4. Tasted the goodness of the Word of GOD


These points are definitely not referring to a sinner or nominal Christian but a 100% saved Christian who drew back to tradition and rejected grace.

^^^^^^


How anyone can honestly say that the Person who fulfills the points mentioned above was never a Christian to begin with is truly dumbfounding .

Enigma:

Oh but he knows it all! Whatever "doctrine" he falls for on any particular day is the all time and ever only "truth".

The saying goes in part "he who knows not and knows not that he knows not . . . . ."

How true, bro.

And I think he's about to go off the rails again:

frosbel: I am ready to take this down to the wire , to prevent this poison from destroying the faith our beloved brethren.

Enigma: If boxer X hits you, you stay hit.

If God Himself saves you, you stay saved.

So, yes; once saved, always saved.

And a very succinct way to put it too.

Can't help hoping, can I, frosbel?

See if you can comprehend my responses, will you?

frosbel: A Christian can draw back to perdition, its in the bible

" It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." - Hebrews 6:4-8


1. This Person was enlightened
2. Tasted the Heavenly Gift ( Salvation )
3. Shared the Holy Spirit
4. Tasted the goodness of the Word of GOD


These points are definitely not referring to a sinner or nominal Christian but a 100% saved Christian who drew back to tradition and rejected grace.

1. This Person was enlightened

Certainly, but it does not say that they had become children of the Light.

2. Tasted the Heavenly Gift ( Salvation )

Yes, but it does not say that they had received it.

3. Shared the Holy Spirit

Yes, but it does not say that they had been born of Him or made one with Him or even sealed with Him.

4. Tasted the goodness of the Word of GOD[/quote]

Yes, but it does not say that they had been born of it.

---

The Christian has the Seed of God within him. His spirit is married to the Lord's Spirit. He is a son of Light and belongs by birth and inheritanve with and in the world to come.

However, everyone who hears the Gospel is enlightened by it, tastes the powers of the world to come by it, tastes the goodness of the world to come by it, partakes in the activity of the Holy Spirit by it, on the other hand.

Can't help hoping, can I, frosbel?

See if you can comprehend my responses, will you?

frosbel: A Christian can draw back to perdition, its in the bible

" It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." - Hebrews 6:4-8


1. This Person was enlightened
2. Tasted the Heavenly Gift ( Salvation )
3. Shared the Holy Spirit
4. Tasted the goodness of the Word of GOD


These points are definitely not referring to a sinner or nominal Christian but a 100% saved Christian who drew back to tradition and rejected grace.

1. This Person was enlightened

Certainly, but it does not say that they had become children of the Light.

2. Tasted the Heavenly Gift ( Salvation )

Yes, but it does not say that they had received it.

3. Shared the Holy Spirit

Yes, but it does not say that they had been born of Him or made one with Him or even sealed with Him.

4. Tasted the goodness of the Word of GOD[/quote]

Yes, but it does not say that they had been born of it.

---

The Christian has the Seed of God within him. His spirit is married to the Lord's Spirit. He is a son of Light and belongs by birth and inheritanve with and in the world to come.

However, everyone who hears the Gospel is enlightened by it, tastes the powers of the world to come by it, tastes the goodness of the world to come by it, partakes in the activity of the Holy Spirit by it, on the other hand.

[quote author=Ihedinobi]Can't help hoping, can I, frosbel?

See if you can comprehend my responses, will you?

They are way too advanced for me , but I will try and have a go

Certainly, but it does not say that they had become children of the Light.

He was enlightened to the TRUTH which is in JESUS , but for argument sake, let us assume he is not yet saved.

Yes, but it does not say that they had received it.

Taste here meaning :

geuomai: to taste, eat
Original Word: γεύομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: geuomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ghyoo'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I taste, experience
Definition: (a) I taste, (b) I experience.

Taste here means to experience it , salvation is an experience, no ?

Yes, but it does not say that they had been born of Him or made one with Him or even sealed with Him.

Wrong again, they are made partakers of the Holy Spirit, what is the work of the Holy Spirit if not to bring enlightenment ( conviction of Sin , Righteousness and Judgement ) , New Birth and assistance in the process of conforming to Christ.

You cannot share in something you do not have or have not received , this is again MAN's wisdom in display.

metochos: sharing in
Original Word: μέτοχος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: metochos
Phonetic Spelling: (met'-okh-os)
Short Definition: a sharer, partner
Definition: a sharer, partner, associate.

4. Tasted the goodness of the Word of GOD
Yes, but it does not say that they had been born of it.

To taste is to experience , how can you experience something and not have it.

Or is God dangling some candy before our faces only to withdraw it at a certain point when one is almost saved ?

Some scripture to ponder :


"And ye shall be hated of all men for My Name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved"
Matthew 10:22

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." - 1 Corinthians 9:27

" Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." - Rev 2:5

" Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God." - Heb 3:12

"For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." - Eph 5:5

" Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." - 1st Cor 6:9-10






@ ALL
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ." - Colossians 2:8

frosbel: Some scripture to ponder :


"And ye shall be hated of all men for My Name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved"
Matthew 10:22

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." - 1 Corinthians 9:27

" Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." - Rev 2:5

" Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God." - Heb 3:12

"For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." - Eph 5:5

" Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." - 1st Cor 6:9-10






@ ALL
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ." - Colossians 2:8

hmmmn these scripture really need pondering o

That reminds me of simon the magician who wanted to buy the gift of the Holy Spirit from Peter..SCRIPTURES GAVE AN ACCOUNT THAT HE BELIEVED AFTER RECEIVING THE MESSAGE FROM PHILIP.. I want to ask whether he is always saved?