fellis: I hope kilmix hasn't run away in fear. . . . .

Dear Fellis, I've cleared your doubts. I know that for sure... But before you say someone is running in fear, you should be prepared to face him. Cus in this case you are the one running in fear. It was nice schooling you though. I'll stay here for more 20mins and afterwards dive my bed. Good night in anticipation.

kilmix:

I know I got you there.

I am a Christian... I did my research well I guess.
I took you through the Historical view

you didn't prove that your point was correct when you gave your 'historic view'. You said britain used to have laws that encouraged gender discrimination against women therefore women are inferior. Then I told you that britain also used to have laws that discriminated against blacks and asked you if that meant black people should be discriminated against naturally. Your 'historical view' was nonsense. It didn't prove anything.

, now I've given you religious back up. Let me know if you want the Legal perspective of the argument..
In the tackling this part I'll refer you to my earlier post on State of Nature... All men are subject to a Superior being(God, Allah, Hindu, Shintu etc) as such all our thoughts are geared towards submission to this Superior Being. When ever we find ourselves in a confused state, we turn to the words of this Superior Being. So it's not out of place to argue in line with religion...Even in Law, Religion is a good back up for arguments.

You quoted the book of corinthians to back up your point.
What is the origin of the book of corinthians? It is not the instruction Jesus Christ gave to all christians, rather it was written by the apostle paul and directed specifically to the Corinths and that is why those books are known as Corinthians.
Who do Christians follow? Is it apostle paul or is it Jesus Christ? If it is Jesus Christ then Christians have no business following laws that were written by apostle paul and directed to the Corinths.

I quoted Qu'ran because earlier on your Post, you mentioned that Islam does not support gender superiority.

Firstly, I don't take hadiths seriously as a source of Islamic information because they have contradictory information. They are not always consistent.
I think it is better to take the information from the Quran serious when it comes to Islamic matters.
You quoted some verses of the Quran to show that men are superior to women and of all the verses, only one verse actually talks about the generality of males and females. The other verses talk about the relationship between husbands and wives specifically.
The verse talking about the generality of males and females is Quran 2:228 which says that men are a degree over women. That degree they have over women is referring to the fact that men have more responsibilities religiously than women do. It doesn't mean men are better than women.

Lastly, for your argument to be Valid and Accepted, it must be backed up...

I have been backing my arguments up since the beginning of this thread with simple comparisms. I said strength (in men) alone cannot determine superiority because some animals have more strength than humans and they are not superior to us. I said an individual has to have a collection of traits to be superior to another individual: traits like intelligence, work ethics, compassion etc. These traits vary in human beings, some women have more of them than some men and vice versa. That shows that there is no universal superiority of one gender over another.

kilmix:
Dear Fellis, I've cleared your doubts.

I have no doubts about this matter, maybe you are the one doubting yourself.

I know that for sure... But before you say someone is running in fear, you should be prepared to face him. Cus in this case you are the one running in fear.

Lol, sorry about that. I just wrote it to make sure you come back and reply me.

It was nice schooling you though.

You schooled me?
Wow
I don't even know which language to laugh in. All you have done on this thread to backup your points is to reference outdated british laws and religious books. Where was your logic? Where did you apply common sense in explaining your points?
You'd better stop lying to yourself and accept the truth. Men are not superior to women. That is the truth and it will always remain the truth.

I'll stay here for more 20mins and afterwards dive my bed. Good night in anticipation.

Goodnight to you too. Hope you would be able to apply common sense in your arguments tomorrow when you return.

fellis:




you didn't prove that your point was correct when you gave your 'historic view'. You said britain used to have laws that encouraged gender discrimination against women therefore women are inferior. Then I told you that britain also used to have laws that discriminated against blacks and asked you if that meant black people should be discriminated against naturally. Your 'historical view' was nonsense. It didn't prove anything.


You quoted the book of corinthians to back up your point.
What is the origin of the book of corinthians? It is not the instruction Jesus Christ gave to all christians, rather it was written by the apostle paul and directed specifically to the Corinths and that is why those books are known as Corinthians.
Who do Christians follow? Is it apostle paul or is it Jesus Christ? If it is Jesus Christ then Christians have no business following laws that were written by apostle paul and directed to the Corinths.



Firstly, I don't take hadiths seriously as a source of Islamic information because they have contradictory information. They are not always consistent.
I think it is better to take the information from the Quran serious when it comes to Islamic matters.
You quoted some verses of the Quran to show that men are superior to women and of all the verses, only one verse actually talks about the generality of males and females. The other verses talk about the relationship between husbands and wives specifically.
The verse talking about the generality of males and females is Quran 2:228 which says that men are a degree over women. That degree they have over women is referring to the fact that men have more responsibilities religiously than women do. It doesn't mean men are better than women.



I have been backing my arguments up since the beginning of this thread with simple comparisms. I said strength (in men) alone cannot determine superiority because some animals have more strength than humans and they are not superior to us. I said an individual has to have a collection of traits to be superior to another individual: traits like intelligence, work ethics, compassion etc. These traits vary in human beings, some women have more of them than some men and vice versa. That shows that there is no universal superiority of one gender over another.

On the issue of Corinthians... Does it mean that apart from the Corinthians, all other Women should not submit to man, and that Man shouldn't submit to God?
On the is of Hadith... So you now the barometer to measure the Holy Books?
On the issue of the Quran, so you didn't find this useful? Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are in charge of women?

In the Legal parlance, when a Woman is Married to a Man, she acquires the Domicile of the Man. That is to say she bears the name of the man and shift her origin to the man's.(Acquires the man's domicile of origin).

So apart from common sense, you have no case.

You didn't respond to the last comment on page4.

kilmix:
On the issue of Corinthians... Does it mean that apart from the Corinthians, all other Women should submit to man, and that Man shouldn't submit to God?

I don't understand this statement at all, how does it even relate to what I wrote before?

On the is of Hadith... So you now the barometer to major the Holy Books?

lol where did I say that? I told you why I couldn't take hadith as seriously as the Quran (because they contain blatant contradictions) I never said I am now the barometer or thermometer to 'major the holy books'
By the way are you not a Christian? Why have the Quran and hadith become holy books to you?

On the issue of the Quran, so you didn't find this useful? Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are in charge of women?

That verse is talking specifically about married couples; read it to the end and you'd realize this. The verse isn't saying that every man on earth is in charge of every woman on earth.

In the Legal parlance, when a Woman is Married to a Man, she acquires the Domicile of the Man. That is to say she bears the name of the man and shift her origin to the man's.(Acquires the man's domicile of origin).

This only proves that it is not against the law for women to acquire their husbands' domicile of origin. It doesn't mean that women are compelled to bear their husbands' names after marriage. There are some Nigerian women that still bore their fathers' names after they got married. Joke Silva for instance. She got married to Olu Jacobs but didn't bear his surname.
Besides laws change and vary. What is law in one country would be illegal in another country. In Saudi Arabia for instance, women are not allowed to bear their husbands' names after marriage because of their Islamic beliefs

So apart from common sense, you have no case.

Is this a joke? The fact that I can defend my points with common sense/logic and you can't means you have already lost this argument.
If you can't backup your points with common sense that means whatever point you are making is devoid of common sense and therefore foolish/meaningless.

kilmix:
And what makes you think your sense is the Most Common here. Base your assertion on Facts and not mere reasoning... Everyone is entitled to his reasons, but not all reasoning will hold sway.

True, everyone has their reasoning and opinions and not all reasoning would hold sway. The superior argument or reasoning is the one that makes the most sense or the most rational and logical one.
Also I based my arguments on facts. I don't know how you failed to see this, or has the meaning of 'facts' changed from what it used to be?

If you like bring Heaven Down here...When you are Married you'll change your last name to that of your Husband's. So brace yourself on that unwanted task.

Let me be the one to worry about what name I would bear after marriage, stop trying to get personal because you are loosing. You can't win every argument you enter into.

*Edited*

fellis: Kim should not change her last name to Kanye's last name.
She is not his daughter neither is she his property so why should she discard her last name for his?
Rubbish.
I don't even know where this nauseating culture of women throwing away their father's name came from. It is neither in the Bible nor the Qur'an and I don't know of any traditional religion that endorses it so why are people still taking it serious?
A man would sweat and suffer to train his daughter from kindergarten to university then when she marries she just tosses his name and starts bearing the name of another person that did not and will never be able to add to her life as much as her father did.
What an idiotic culture.

This doesnt even make sense to me... just some angry feminist talk

kilmix:

And what makes you think your sense is the Most Common here. Base your assertion on Facts and not mere reasoning... Everyone is entitled to his reasons, but not all reasoning will hold sway. If you like bring Heaven Down here...When you are Married you'll change your last name to that of your Husband's. So brace yourself on that unwanted task.

@kilmix.....GOD...bless you my brother.......@fellis:you are entitled to your opinion and and your opinion can not cover everybodies opinion...and because you think a white hankerchief is blue other people can not accept that the white hankerchief is blue...i hope when your husband would make you the head of your home since you are smarter than him,and he would bear your name or your last name....have a nice day.

DC-ONE:
@kilmix.....GOD...bless you my brother.......@fellis:you are entitled to your opinion and and your opinion can not cover everybodies opinion...and because you think a white hankerchief is blue other people can not accept that the white hankerchief is blue

Like I said before, everyone has their opinion, even crazy people. What makes an opinion valid is the amount of sense it makes and how reasonable it is.
Over four pages of this thread, I have explained my points and made sense of them you men opposing me have consistently failed to do the same so how is your opinion better than mine or more sensible than mine?
If you want me to accept what you're saying as truth, then you have to explain why it is truth to me because the fact that it is your opinion isn't enough make it the truth. Some racist white people are of the opinion that you are inferior to them as a black man, does that mean their opinion is fact and that you are actually inferior because of the color of your skin?
What about idol worshippers that are of the opinion that human beings should be killed and sacrificed to their gods? Is their opinion acceptable simply because everyone is entitled to their opinions?
Your opinion is only valid if it makes sense and is understandable/reasonable. You cannot expect me to take you serious when you can't defend them.
Stop lying to yourself and stop living in denial. There is nothing like gender superiority or inferiority

...i hope when your husband would make you the head of your home since you are smarter than him,and he would bear your name or your last name....have a nice day.

Stop drawing wrong conclusions, I never said I wanted to be head of my house, I believe marriage is about cooperation, understanding and tolerance. I don't subscribe to the idea of one party lording it over the other or imposing their will over the other because they are the 'head'.
These are the things you are saying men should do when you say husbands should be the head in marriages.

fellis:
Kim should not change her last name to Kanye's last name.
She is not his daughter neither is she his property so why should she discard her last name for his?
Rubbish.
I don't even know where this nauseating culture of women throwing away their father's name came from. It is neither in the Bible nor the Qur'an and I don't know of any traditional religion that endorses it so why are people still taking it serious?
A man would sweat and suffer to train his daughter from kindergarten to university then when she marries she just tosses his name and starts bearing the name of another person that did not and will never be able to add to her life as much as her father did.
What an idiotic culture.

Lmao

Who the feck is going through my old posts and liking them?
Show yerself!
Lol.