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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False (2375 Views)
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Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 11:25pm On Feb 07, 2013 |
The doctrine of original sin is false because: |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Javanian: 12:05am On Feb 08, 2013 |
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Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 12:19am On Feb 08, 2013 |
Javanian: @op Ask your Flying Sphagetti Monster , invented by your white masters |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Javanian: 12:22am On Feb 08, 2013 |
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Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by cyber999: 6:04am On Feb 08, 2013 |
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Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Jeel: 7:12am On Feb 08, 2013 |
Javanian,the Holy Spirit exists and he is real and you can know him personaly. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Javanian: 9:39am On Feb 08, 2013 |
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Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by dokie: 11:05am On Apr 10, 2013 |
[quote author=frosbel][/quote] oga, what sin was david talking about in psalm 51 verse 5?. i appeal just answer it simply. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by honeychild(f): 11:25am On Apr 10, 2013 |
@ frosbel: Please what do you mean by 'original sin'? You need to define the doctrine before we start to discuss it. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 11:47am On Apr 10, 2013 |
honeychild: @ frosbel: Sorry a little busy right now , we can discuss later in the evening. For now, if you have a few minutes you can read this introduction below and follow link for more info. ( edited ). Are We Born Sinners? |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 12:21pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
@ frosbel,do u know Charles G. Finney? He was a 19th century American Presbytarian/Congregational evangelist who fiercely opposed the doctrine of original sin.Many christians only know him as a great revivalist,but he was infact also a pelagian. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 12:28pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
Beretta92: @ frosbel,do u know Charles G. Finney? He was a 19th century American Presbytarian/Congregational evangelist who fiercely opposed the doctrine of original sin.Many christians only know him as a great revivalist,but he was infact also a pelagian. Sure, I have a a volume of one his works , he is one of my mentors in the faith, though I do not agree with a very few of his positions. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by ichuka(m): 12:32pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
as by one man's disobedience many were made SINNERs by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous..Romans5:19. We are all Sinners by birth. We are Sinners not because we sin,but we sin because we are Sinner. Why are we Sinners by birth?..its because we are born of natual descent,of the will of a man and of blood..John1:13. So OP,if your definition of original Sin is term Sinners by birth then the doctrine is very correct. 2 Likes |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 12:35pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
i.chuka: This dangerous doctrine , latches onto the false once saved always saved lie from hell. Read this : "And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad--they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it." - Deuteronomy 1:39 ^^^^ Children are born innocent not in SIN , it's in the bible. 1 Like |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by ijawkid(m): 12:38pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
@frosbel the reason that was given from the pasted post is not the reason why JW's refuse blood transfusion.....the single and real reason for JW's refusal of blood transfusion is because abstinence from blood is a scriptural injunction.....the issue of original is not even connected to it... I'm just trying to correct that error........ |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by dokie: 12:55pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
frosbel: frosbel i asked you a simple question earlier which is what brought this thread to the front again. i ask again: abeg, what sin was david talking about in psalm 51 verse 5. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 12:55pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
ijawkid: @frosbel the reason that was given from the pasted post is not the reason why JW's refuse blood transfusion.....the single and real reason for JW's refusal of blood transfusion is because abstinence from blood is a scriptural injunction.....the issue of original is not even connected to it... Forgive this error, I will review and update. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 1:03pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
dokie: In SIN my mother did conceive me : He was born through a sinful mother into a sinful world. How could he be a sinner , when he did not know right from wrong . Sin is an action not a state. Can you also explain : "...The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child..." - Ezekiel 18:20 " So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God." - Romans 14:12 " He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste."- Isaiah 7:15-16 " and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 18:3 |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by ichuka(m): 1:23pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
frosbel:Lol Brother,nobi me write d bible. Romans5:19 says thruogh the disobedience of Adam that ALL(not some but All)became SINNERs. We are all in Adam in the garden of Eden and we all approve of his disobedience. If one sins he's a sinner that sin,if another decides not to commit sinful acts,he's merely a moral sinner.an innocent child is a sinner that's innocent. Its not a matter of what one do or don't do'rather its an issue of source. Let's say your surname is Obi.you are Obi because your dad and your grandad are Obi.Now if you decide to do good you are Obi that does good,if you decide to become a doctor,a priest,the president or a 419 you are still an Obi.nothing whatsoever can make you otherwise. Why is that?..because you were born an Obi.since its by birth you became an Obi its only by death that you can be free from being an Obi. That's the meaning of Romans5:19 |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Goshen360(m): 1:23pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
@ Frosbel, this topic is interesting but unfortunately, I'm not chanced this season. I just come in and do one or two or three post generally on the forum. I'm busy now as per what I told you outside this forum...you grab? But I will keep spying on this thread because I need to balance one scriptures quoted by i.chuka and the one I will quote below . . .it has troubled in the past. Take a look, New International Version (©2011) For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19 New International Version (©2011) To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone's account where there is no law. Romans 5:13 I only need answer, I'm into this thread yet like I said but the thread I think, is interesting. Now, if by Adam, all were MADE SINNERS and verse 13 says, the sin that Adam committed or other people, it was NOT charged against ANYONE'S account....that 'would' include Adam right? How then is verse 19 that we are made SINNERS if Adam's sin was not charged against him? Well, I think I have an answer but just wanna hear your view |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 1:24pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
i.chuka: Innocent sinner We are more inclined to sin because of our fallen nature , does not mean we are sinners at birth. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Goshen360(m): 1:26pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
^ You be yeye boi o Anyway, I'm off the thread for now. Return later if puzzle remained unsolved. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by PastorOluT(m): 1:46pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
@ op I just need you to tell what sin Jesus died for? Also the scriptures ichuka quoted, how do you explain it? Answer this, then we discuss. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 1:57pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
^^^ Thanks for the question brother. Subject to further research, this is my understanding : MAN was created morally perfect and should have remained in this condition and received immortal life if only he obeyed GOD. When MAN sinned, there was a consequence, this consequence was DEATH. Man was no more perfect his nature was now marred , he will now have to contend with sin and overcome it. "If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it." - Genesis 4:7 Because of our fallen nature, we are inclined to SIN and this choice begins to manifest the moment we know what is right from wrong. Jesus came to reverse this process in 2 ways : 1. Overcome sin and make an atonement for our sins to destroy the problem of SIN 2. Resurrection from death which is the cause of SIN, so that all who die in Christ will again live forever. The issue of original sin , is that we are born sinners and therefore , through no fault of ours, we cannot help sinning, this is false. We as adults have a moral responsibility to choose right from wrong, we must overcome temptation and be victorious to the end by trusting in the work of the cross and imbibing the grace of GOD. A baby has no such knowledge and cannot therefore be called a sinner. Sin is an action , for example : ...Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness.........." - Galatians 5:19 Here Paul is fully aware that sin is a work , an act not a condition we are born into. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by ichuka(m): 2:01pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
frosbel:Bro,why you dey laugh about the innocent sinner? Is the innocent child born of the will of a man,and of blood with natural descent?(John1:13)then the child is a sinner even in the womb of the mother. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 2:03pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
i.chuka: natural descent simply means through the normal process of human procreation. can I ask you one question before we continue: If a 6 month old baby dies 'in sin' , will he/she be sent to hell ? |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by debosky(m): 2:07pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
@ frosbel is this your view or are you just posting the views of others for us to discuss/debate? I think it's important to clarify your stand on this so folk know how to respond - either to you or simply just challenging the ideas presented. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 2:08pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
debosky: @ frosbel is this your view or are you just posting the views of others for us to discuss/debate? My view, hence my posting it here to discuss I don't always have time to write up such articles , especially when there are ready made ones available for use. Why reinvent the wheel ? |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by debosky(m): 2:41pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
^^ No issues bro. I didn't say you needed to write up your own article, just wanted to know where you stood before responding. |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by dokie: 3:58pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
frosbel: before i start explaining, why did you only pick up the second part of that verse? it is a complete verse i asked an explanation of not a part of a verse. the following are from various bible translations: Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. NIV Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me. NKJV Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.KJV For I was born a sinner -, yes, from the moment my mother conceived me. New Living Translation. Indeed I was born guilty, a sinner when my mother conceived me. New Revised Standard Version Behold I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. Revised Standard Version I have been out of step with you for a long time, in the wrong since before I was born. The Message Bible I have been evil from the day I was born; from the time I was conceived I have been sinful. Good News Translation Behold I was brought forth in (a state of) iniquity; my mother was sinful who conceived me (and I too am sinful) amplified version. please explain. and when romans 3:23 says all have sinned and have fallen short of God's glory, are children exempted from ALL? At what point does someone become a human being? at conception, at birth or at death? |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 4:05pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
^^^^ David was not born as a sinner, he was born with the inclination toward sin or with a sinful nature. However he had the free will to either obey his sinful nature which leads to death ,or through the grace of GOD , obey the commandments of GOD which is to walk after spirit and live. However he was not a sinner until he made decisions to chose right from wrong. Sin is an act , a work and a dead one at that. I have a small question for you, if a baby dies without baptism, where does it go to ? |
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by dokie: 4:59pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
frosbel: ^^^^ you are the one who claims the bible is your only source of teaching and here you are intentionaly refusing to explain a scriptural verse, or better still blatantly refusing to accept what scripture is very clear on, rather you chose to drive your thoughts down the minds of people, and you wonder why i say you are a captive of the devil? the Holy Spirit says david was a sinner right fron his mothers womb, brought forth inside iniquity, not even at the point of birth but at the point of conception, and you frosbel says david was not born a sinner. this is how you have continually avoided the clear truths in the bible, and misrepresented others to your own ruin. now you that have rejected a clear verse of scripture, are now asking me where babies who die without being baptized go to so that i can quote the cathecism ofbthe carholic church on it so that you can divert attention from your blatant rejection of the scripture which you some much hold dear. frosbel, tell me what that scripture means and answer the other questions i asked. 1 Like |
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