WinsomeX:
2 Corinthians 9:7 KJV: Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

ESV: Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

NIV: Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

AMP: Let each one [give] as he has made up his own mind and purposed in his heart, not reluctantly or sorrowfully or under compulsion, for God loves (He takes pleasure in, prizes above other things, and is unwilling to abandon or to do without) a cheerful (joyous, “prompt to do it”) giver [whose heart is in his giving].

Hopefully, I believe that OLAADEGBU, from my previous discussion here has understood the distinction btw offerings as discussed in scripture and giving. To summarise, no one ever gave an offering in the NT. What they gave was a collection at best.

But since we have been reminded that the thread has more to say than just tithe and that we should also discuss giving, I have presented above a scripture by Paul that clearly tells us how the first century Christian gave. Bidam may read that scripture and help us find the "require" in it. He may even go further to find the "commandment" in it. Any careful reader wilk see that Paul tells us that NT giving shall be without compulsion. If a "require" or "commandment" does not imply compulsion, I request Bidam to tell us what else compulsion might mean.

The OT clearly showed that tithes and offering were requirements and commandments to be given under compulsion, else the Jews sinned. In the NT, all this change to free will giving. Free will means without compulsion. If we feel compelled at all to give, it is the love of God that compels us.

Hallelujah!

WinsomeX:


Christians are indeed commanded to give in scripture

MarkMiwerds:

This proves the care of the Apostles for preaching was not a command to the people. Had it been a command, Paul would have accepted it and not refused it as he did.

Image123:
You say giving is not a requirement (whatever that means), yet you do it or claim to.

Image123:
If we say tithing is a requirement(whatever that means), you will INSIST don't do it. Double standard.

Image123:
You say giving is not a requirement (whatever that means), yet you do it or claim to. If we say tithing is a requirement(whatever that means), you will INSIST don't do it. Double standard.

Bidam:


In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should earn their living by the gospel.

International Standard Version
In the same way, the Lord has ordered that those who proclaim the gospel should make their living from the gospel.

NET Bible
In the same way the [size=16pt]Lord commanded those who proclaim the gospel to receive their living by the gospel.
[/size]
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
In this way also our Lord commands that those who preach his Gospel shall live from his Gospel.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who spread the Good News should earn their living from the Good News.

Bidam:

REQUIRE IS A VERB in this case: to impose a compulsion or command on : compel

WinsomeX:
Mr Whatever-that-means, if you have ever written a vague text, this one will take number one. But let me assume I understand you.



If I claim giving is not a requirement I mean this:

1. Giving is not compulsory.
2. Giving is not a prerequisite. If it is, that put an end to the grace concept in the NT.
3. Giving is not law.
4. But giving is fruit of Christian love and that is what compels. Not a requirement.

If you understand this, you will understand why I am at liberty to give or not.



Tithing is not a requirement in the NT. I cannot see a double standard there.

You may however shed more light on whatever-you-mean by double standard.

Image123:
You say giving is not a requirement (whatever that means), yet you do it or claim to. If we say tithing is not a requirement(whatever that means), you will INSIST don't do it. Double standard.
edited. Sorry I missed the second not.

WinsomeX:


You are being dishonest when you quote a scripture like that to support a premise that giving is a COMMANDMENT in the NT in the manner in which you are teaching it: law or a requirement or compulsion. See:



If that scripture is saying we are COMMANDED to give in that manner, where do we put a scripture like this one that clearly says that giving should be willing:

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Therefore to see giving in the overall light of the NT, including that scripture you have quoted, we must agree that Jesus commanded that ministers are to be supported by those who they minister to. Quite naturally, we won't expect the secular world to pay the ministers that preach to us. But even at that, ministers are supported by church finances that come from a pool of resources put together by the willing giving of members of the church. To interpret the 1Cor 9 scripture to mean bc ministers are to be paid therefore you must give o, is to do injustice to scriptures.

Now what did our Lord COMMAND? Look at it here:

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10:11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it. 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

Luke 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. 10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. 10:8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:

Read the whole scripture.

The Matthew scripture showed Jesus commanded his disciples. The Luke scripture showed how he instructed for them to provided for:

Verse 7: eat such things as they give.

Verse 8: eat such things as set before you.

In addition with his emphasis that freely you have received, freely you should give.

In these scripture Christ referred to the immediate need of his ministers: food. In the 1 Cor9 scripture this food can translate to money but in both of them we see how the provision should come: free will - such things as they give; such things as they set before you. Freely you give.

Bidam, there is nowhere in the bible Jesus commanded a tithe to be given to his NT ministers. And even when he commanded for their provision, the context obviously speaks of free will. So understand now what I meant when I said God commanded us to give... This is what he commanded: free will giving.

WinsomeX:


I think I get what you mean now: you are saying if anti tithers do not see giving as a requirement and thus are at liberty to give or not; we should also maintain the same stance for tithing which we also see as not a requirement. We shouldn't insist people should not tithe. To do so is to maintain double standard.

I agree with you. If this is the attitude, then it is double standard indeed.

I do not tithe. I also accept the label anti tither, not bc it depicts who I truly am but bc it's the cliche here for all non tithers. The second thing is that I am at this point not speaking for all non tithers.

My position really on all matters of church life is LIBERTY. Do as God compels you. The only thing I believe I must insist on is preaching sound doctrine and calling sinners to repentance. Even the matter of holiness I leave to each man to do as God leads them.

Concerning giving then, I insist on liberty. Thus concerning tithing, the same thing: liberty. I however have issues with those who make tithing compulsory or who insist on it in a subtle manner like Bidam is doing.

That's my position.

WinsomeX:
^^^



Bidam, I read your response. I have nothing else to say. I believe what has been said to you is sufficient.

Bidam:
No, don't cop out just yet.

Bidam:
There are things the christians are Commanded to do in the new covenant..Love is one of them and giving is also one of them

Bidam:
my argument is not about compulsion,coersion,cajoling and the likes from the scripture you quoted.

Bidam:

REQUIRE IS A VERB in this case: to impose a compulsion or command on : compel

Bidam:

Lemme give you another scriptural witness.
How do you explain Paul ORDERING the church in galatia to set aside some money for sunday offerings? ( 1 corinthians 16:1-2).

WinsomeX:


You can call it whatever you like.



I agree that Christians are Commanded to love. And I have explained to you that the commandment to give is free will giving.



Is that so? Who said this in response to Image123 and what else did you mean by the statement:





Ah... Finally we find a command in the bible to give by force. So, readers, here we have an ORDER from Paul to you to give and make sure you give by fire, by thunder.

Bidam, you are a joke!

If I took my time to explain to you what Paul meant by a commandment to give by Jesus and even showed you scriptures showing this command was free will giving, and you are still locked up in your thinking, there is nothing else that can be done for you.

Bidam, you have an ORDER from Paul make sure you obey it with dispatch... smh.

WinsomeX:


I think I get what you mean now: you are saying if anti tithers do not see giving as a requirement and thus are at liberty to give or not; we should also maintain the same stance for tithing which we also see as not a requirement. We shouldn't insist people should not tithe. To do so is to maintain double standard.

I agree with you. If this is the attitude, then it is double standard indeed.


.

WinsomeX:
^^^

I agree with you. On the the matter of tithing, conversion, following older believers and being taught by the Spirit, I can testify to this too. Indeed winning the lost, not money making gospel preaching, is our calling.

Bidam, I read your response. I have nothing else to say. I believe what has been said to you is sufficient.

Daily Manna
Tuesday 21, October 2014

The Lord's House

TEXT: 2 Chronicles 24:1-14

"And it came to pass after this, that Joash was minded to repair the house of the LORD" (2 Chronicles 24:4).

The place of good house for the worship of God cannot be overstressed. Although the Scripture says God does not dwell in a house made by hand, where His name is called and worshipped must be presentable.

This was why When Dr. Yongi Cho’s church – the largest single congregation in the world - was reportedly carrying out the church’s building project in South Korea, a lot of poor women folks and widows had to sell their petty possessions in order to be able to give. We were even told that those that had long hair had to cut them, sell and give for the building of the church. It was a joyful experience for everyone, though there was the initial pain of self-denial. Everyone must be involved in building a house for God’s worship.

The same experience is what we have in our text today. King Joash saw the need to repair the house of God that had been vandalised by the previous idolatrous kings. He, therefore, instructed the priest and Levites to collect offerings from the people for this purpose. At first, the priests were hesitant. Probably, they were considering the financial condition of the people. This is the same mistake most ministers make when it comes to encouraging the people to give for the work of God. But when they eventually told the people, they not only gave abundantly, but they gladly gave. They rejoiced in their giving.

A project in the house of God, whether church-building, mission or a particular programme, must be enthusiastically supported by every member. Excluding members from giving because we think they are poor will amount to robbing them of their joy and much more, of the key that will liberate them from poverty. Giving may sometimes be accompanied by the initial pain of self-denial and sacrifice; it however results in abounding and boundless joy.

Higher Everyday for Youths - Link: http://highereveryday.dclmhq.org/

Thought for the day: "God makes all things beautiful in His time"

See more at:

OLAADEGBU:


Higher Everyday
Friday, October 31, 2014

GIVING GOD

"Bring ye all the tithes into the store house, that there may be meat in mine house and prove me now herewith, said the Lord of hosts if I will not open you the windows of Heaven" (Malachi 3:10)

There is nothing that excites people like a vision to give something special to God. Study great men of God in the Bible, you will find that they have been great givers. The best way to start is to give your life to Christ unreservedly. "My son give me thine heart and let thine eyes observe my ways" (Proverbs 23:26). That is the only way your giving can be acceptable.

Make it a habit to give God your talent, tithes, time, and material resources, among others. There is nothing as nice as being a cheerful giver. When you give according to God's will, there will be provisions in the house of God, and He will open the windows of Heaven, and shower abundant blessings on you. Even for the youth, it is more blessed to give than to receive.

• Challenge: "There is no mistake as great as the mistake of not giving to God"

• Prayer: "Lord makes me a cheerful giver in your House."

• Further Reading: 2 Corinthians 9:7

• Quotation: "It is more blessed to give"

See more at:

Bidam:


Timeless truth.

MarkMiwerds:


God's Word is forever settled in Heaven.

Unfortunately, as is quite evident, it is not settled in the hearts of those who teach the monetary tithe requirement doctrine.

OLAADEGBU:


God's Words are timeless and does not change.

MarkMiwerds:
you are right... God's Word do not change. Now, tell us who God's Word says are to receive His holy tithes?

Image123:


God, He receiveth them. Will a man rob God?
Oh, the nanny advice. No point telling a blind man that the sky is blue.

Image123:


God, He receiveth them. Will a man rob God?
Oh, the nanny advice. No point telling a blind man that the sky is blue.

dorox:

The above statement is mean and insensitive. To take such a cheap shot at someone who is physically blind says a lot about the kind of person you really are.

MarkMiwerds:
of men, it is the Levites who are to receice the tithes. They are the only representatives on Earth to whom God gave authority to take tithes for the House of God.

Blindness to the truth is more detrimental than blindness to color.

Image123:


Again, Melchisedek wasn't levite. Jesus the High Priest of priests is of the order of Melchisedek not Aarons. Your blindness to this simple point is pitiable.

Image123:


Again, Melchisedek wasn't levite. Jesus the High Priest of priests is of the order of Melchisedek not Aarons. Your blindness to this simple point is pitiable.