vooks:
Excellent.
Now, walk me through why anybody is entitled to collect tithes over the others in the body of Christ seeing ALL are priests. Can I collect your tithes? Can you collect mine?

If that is indeed excellent and your words have meaning, i hope you won't be repeating these line of questioning in future and acting oblivious of these. I say this because it is very common of the others, and it is the syndrome scripture described as "ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". Tithe is given to God through the church, His body. We are His Body, the church. No person is more entitled over the other. For administrative purposes, tithes and offerings are given centrally in a congregation. It's not paid into an individual's account, normally. Thereafter, each church administration (which may be different) uses these provisions as determined or decided. There is nothing wrong with some order, and nothing stops any believer from giving alms of any percentage.

Excellent,
Is it possible to offer God ANYTHING without going through 'the church,His Body'?

I have in mind offerings/sacrifices such as ourselves, praise...and so forth

Image123:


If that is indeed excellent and your words have meaning, i hope you won't be repeating these line of questioning in future and acting oblivious of these. I say this because it is very common of the others, and it is the syndrome scripture described as "ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". Tithe is given to God through the church, His body. We are His Body, the church. No person is more entitled over the other. For administrative purposes, tithes and offerings are given centrally in a congregation. It's not paid into an individual's account, normally. Thereafter, each church administration (which may be different) uses these provisions as determined or decided. There is nothing wrong with some order, and nothing stops any believer from giving alms of any percentage.

Image123:


If that is indeed excellent and your words have meaning, i hope you won't be repeating these line of questioning in future and acting oblivious of these. I say this because it is very common of the others, and it is the syndrome scripture described as "ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". Tithe is given to God through the church, His body. We are His Body, the church. No person is more entitled over the other. For administrative purposes, tithes and offerings are given centrally in a congregation. It's not paid into an individual's account, normally. Thereafter, each church administration (which may be different) uses these provisions as determined or decided. There is nothing wrong with some order, and nothing stops any believer from giving alms of any percentage.

Please, how did you arrive at that bolded statement? Is it your word or the Word of God?

chillykelly86:


Please, how did you arrive at that bolded statement? Is it your word or the Word of God?

since there is no recorded practice of the tithe given to the Church in the Word of God, nor any instruction for tithe to be given to the Church recorded in the Word of God, it is obviously no more than man's opinion that it is to be given to the Church.

One has to add to the Word of God to arrive at the conclusion that tithe is given to God through the Church.

vooks:
Excellent,
Is it possible to offer God ANYTHING without going through 'the church,His Body'?

I have in mind offerings/sacrifices such as ourselves, praise...and so forth

Yes, you don't have to be in congregation /church to offer praise.

chillykelly86:


Please, how did you arrive at that bolded statement? Is it your word or the Word of God?

What you give to the church(the Body of Christ) has been given to Christ. That's the Word of God.

But you MUST offer tithes through a congregation to Melchizedek?

Image123:

Yes, you don't have to be in congregation /church to offer praise.

vooks:

But you MUST offer tithes through a congregation to Melchizedek?

I don't know.

Image123:


If that is indeed excellent and your words have meaning, i hope you won't be repeating these line of questioning in future and acting oblivious of these. I say this because it is very common of the others, and it is the syndrome scripture described as "ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". Tithe is given to God through the church, His body. We are His Body, the church. No person is more entitled over the other. For administrative purposes, tithes and offerings are given centrally in a congregation. It's not paid into an individual's account, normally. Thereafter, each church administration (which may be different) uses these provisions as determined or decided. There is nothing wrong with some order, and nothing stops any believer from giving alms of any percentage.

chillykelly86:

Please, how did you arrive at that bolded statement? Is it your word or the Word of God?

Image123:

What you give to the church(the Body of Christ) has been given to Christ. That's the Word of God.

It is either you didn't understand the question or you avoided the substance of the question.

For the sake of clarity, is this the Word of God, "Tithe is given to God through the church, His body."?

You have INVENTED administrative procedures in which Jesus our High Priest receives his tithes centrally through his body and you don't even know if there is any other way of delivering to him?

Look, under Moses, the tithe still belonged to God only his own appointed Levites collected it. Under Abraham, tithes belonged to God and He collected it himself, no mediators seeing Christ is God is Melchizedek. Why do you inject mediators called the church to receive the tithe?

Image123:

I don't know.

chillykelly86:




It is either you didn't understand the question or you avoided the substance of the question.

For the sake of clarity, is this the Word of God, "Tithe is given to God through the church, His body."?

You asked if it's the Word of God, i said it is the word of God. What is avoided again, you didn't get the answer you wish to get?

Image123:

You asked if it's the Word of God, i said it is the word of God. What is avoided again, you didn't get the answer you wish to get?

yeah, but which god? Certainly not the God of Heaven and Earth. In His Word, tithes were never commanded for the New Testament Church, tithes were never carried to the New Testament Church, tithes were never collected in the New Testament Church, & tithes were never controlled by the New Testament Church.

MarkMiwerds:
yeah, but which god? Certainly not the God of Heaven and Earth. In His Word, tithes were never commanded for the New Testament Church, tithes were never carried to the New Testament Church, tithes were never collected in the New Testament Church, & tithes were never controlled by the New Testament Church.

Go and answer the questions i posed to you, i really don't want to dance with you in unending circles.

vooks:

You have INVENTED administrative procedures in which Jesus our High Priest receives his tithes centrally through his body and you don't even know if there is any other way of delivering to him?

Look, under Moses, the tithe still belonged to God only his own appointed Levites collected it. Under Abraham, tithes belonged to God and He collected it himself, no mediators seeing Christ is God is Melchizedek. Why do you inject mediators called the church to receive the tithe?

1 Corinthians 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

i don't know everything, neither am i required to. i walk with the little knowledge i have of God and I'm very content with that.

Image123:

Go and answer the questions i posed to you, i really don't want to dance with you in unending circles.

And yet, you dance around the false doctrine of the monetary tithe, claiming that The Word of God says it is "given to God through the Church" and that "it is the Word of God" with absolutely no Scriptural support for your claims at all.

You could not prove the monetary tithe requirement to be a Scriptural doctrine during our 58-day theological discuss, and you cannot prove it now.

The little that you purport to know should be scriptural not off your imagination. Only then can you even attempt to share it.

What has 1Cor 12:5-6 got to do with your response?

Image123:


1 Corinthians 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

i don't know everything, neither am i required to. i walk with the little knowledge i have of God and I'm very content with that.

vooks:

You have INVENTED administrative procedures in which Jesus our High Priest receives his tithes centrally through his body and you don't even know if there is any other way of delivering to him?

Look, under Moses, the tithe still belonged to God only his own appointed Levites collected it. Under Abraham, tithes belonged to God and He collected it himself, no mediators seeing Christ is God is Melchizedek. Why do you inject mediators called the church to receive the tithe?

vooks:
The little that you purport to know should be scriptural not off your imagination. Only then can you even attempt to share it.

What has 1Cor 12:5-6 got to do with your response?

1 Corinthians 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

You said that i invented administrations/administrative procedures, i simply showed you that the church has DIFFERENT administrations. Administration brings in management, direction, order, government and organisation. There are different levels and types of this in the Church. There is nothing wrong or unbiblical with believers having a structure or format of doing things, instead of everyman as it is right in his own eyes.
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
It is not my fault if you do not believe that. When you persecute the church like Paul, you are persecuting Christ. When you give to the church, you are giving to Christ.

1Jo 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Luk 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.
Luk 11:40 Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?
Luk 11:41 But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The Pharisees were hypocrites because they made the outside clean but the inside was very dirty and wickedness. They dwelt on none essentials and were mainly driven by the letter of the law. Here were people who thought it is not lawful to put their 30pieces of silver in the treasury but had no problem using the same money to damn a disciple to betray the Lord's Christ. Did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? Are not the silver and gold God's? What makes agricultural produce more God's and holier than silver and gold? Is God's holy Hill not laden with gold and precious stones? Give alms of such things as ye have.
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

Why would anyone attack and contest vigorously what i give of mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Why are antitithers more concerned than God about my tithes of mine own income? Antitihers are disturbed, they are uneasy, they are very worried, troubled and agitated. Almost traumatized to see me do what i will with mine own. It's perpetually amusing, is there a spirit of some sort behind these? It's not normal. You know, i've met non-tithers, and have met and have friends and believers who do not agree with or have the same opinions and Bible perspectives as i do. but antitithers, they are a different brand entirely. Ironically, antitithers are aware of the effectiveness and provision of tithes and gracious, bountiful giving. They make a lot of noise and publicity about how tithes make pastors the richest in the world, or something along those lines. i think a lot of their opinion is exaggerated though.
But the point is that if tithes is so acclaimed and agreed to be saturating/overfilling in the church, why the bile against it? Why pass over the love of God as it were?
1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jo 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

if we have this world's good, and we know the need of the Church. Why shut our bowels of compassion and make some groanings about agricultural products and levites and storehouses? You have the money, the Church needs the money, i want to give the money. But you are on about yam, wheat, cassava and turkey. How dwelleth the love of God in him? It's a valid question. Let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Image is constantly vilifying us, trying to paint us as against people giving altogether.

We have consistently said we are not against people giving. We are against people saying God requires tithes of money when His Word never says so. We are against statements like "tithes are given to God through the Church" and that "it is the Word of God" when there is not one iota of Scripture to support such claims.

Where is the Scripture that says "tithes are given to God through the Church"? How do we know God accepts such tithes when there is absolutely no evidence that He ever accepted tithes of money in the Tabernacle or Temple?

Where is the Scripture, Image? You said "it is the Word of God". So, produce the Scripture, or admit that it is not the Word of God but merely your opinion.

Image123:
Luk 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.
Luk 11:40 Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?
Luk 11:41 But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The Pharisees were hypocrites because they made the outside clean but the inside was very dirty and wickedness. They dwelt on none essentials and were mainly driven by the letter of the law. Here were people who thought it is not lawful to put their 30pieces of silver in the treasury but had no problem using the same money to damn a disciple to betray the Lord's Christ. Did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? Are not the silver and gold God's? What makes agricultural produce more God's and holier than silver and gold? Is God's holy Hill not laden with gold and precious stones? Give alms of such things as ye have.
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

True Christ hates hypocrisy. See what he told all the Jews listening to his sermon that day.

Matthew 23:1-3 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, [2]Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:[3]All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do: but do not ye after their works:for they say, and do not.

He informed them that they were to do ALL that the hypocritical scribes and Pharisees told them to do, not just tithes because they represented Moses. Remember the law of Moses was still in supremacy at this particular time. If you have to tithe because Christ said it ought to be done there, then you MUST do all the scribes and Pharisees have coded as laws for the Jews too.

Why would anyone attack and contest vigorously what i give of mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Why are antitithers more concerned than God about my tithes of mine own income? Antitihers are disturbed, they are uneasy, they are very worried, troubled and agitated. Almost traumatized to see me do what i will with mine own. It's perpetually amusing, is there a spirit of some sort behind these? It's not normal. You know, i've met non-tithers, and have met and have friends and believers who do not agree with or have the same opinions and Bible perspectives as i do. but antitithers, they are a different brand entirely. Ironically, antitithers are aware of the effectiveness and provision of tithes and gracious, bountiful giving. They make a lot of noise and publicity about how tithes make pastors the richest in the world, or something along those lines. i think a lot of their opinion is exaggerated though.
But the point is that if tithes is so acclaimed and agreed to be saturating/overfilling in the church, why the bile against it? Why pass over the love of God as it were?

Whoever has tried to stop your tithing is infringing on your fundamental human right. You even have the right to spend your cash on marijuana if it catches your fancy. I'll defend your inalienable right to indulge. However, why we can't keep quiet is because of wicked, callous, manipulative and insensitive messages on tithe preached by those who should know better. Since it's possible you've not heard or seen them before, some are reproduced below and i expect you to get angry with these mog too, infact get very righteously angry.

Oyakhilome

https://www.nairaland.com/393253/rhapsody-realities-daily-devotional/9#8071513

The Giving That Stands You Out – Thursday April 7, 2011 – Pastor Chris

It’s impossible for a Christian who only gives his tithes and offerings to feel like an accomplished giver, but the Bible lets us know these aren’t enough. Your tithes for example belong to God, and He expects you to give them to Him anyway. The man who does otherwise is a robber: “Will a man rob God: Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings” (Malachi 3:8 ).

God is not a man (Numbers 23:19); He’s God. So you MUST give Him your tithes and your offerings, as God. Actually, you pay your tithe; you don’t give it, as you would your free-will offering. So your tithe is not a gift, because you don’t pay a gift. Your offering on the other hand isnt just a donation made to the Church, but a sacrifice offered to a divine being. God actually demanded for it in Exodus 23:15: “…None shall appear before Me empty-handed” (AMP).

WHY WE GIVE OUR FIRST FRUITS? (THE BENEFITS)
We are commanded to give it [Prov 3: 9-10, Ex 22: 29] By giving your first fruit, you secure and sanctify the rest of your fruits ( Rom 11: 16) We give our first fruits that the blessing of God may rest upon us ( Eze 44:30) By giving it, you demonstrate your appreciation for God and the things He has done in your life (Deut 26:10 – 11) It releases the anointing upon your life. The bible says thy presses shall burst out with new wine. New wine symbolizes the anointing ( Prov 3:9) God is delighted in our obedience to His word; for it is better to obey than to sacrifice [I Sam 15: 22] If you don’t give your first fruit, God will go after it because it belongs to Him ( Ex 4: 22 – 23) Anyone who holds back his First Fruit exposes himself to evil. As God said to Israel. [Jeremiah 2: 3]....

WAYS OF GIVING FIRST FRUITS
1. New Job: First salary package
2. New Year: First salary or first income ( for those who don’t earn a salary)
3. Old Job (Promotions) – Increase i.e. the difference between the old and new salary. (If your heart condemns you go ahead and give all. He is looking for something to multiply back to you).


https://www.facebook.com/READRHAPSODYOFREALITIES/posts/651164134943691

Adeboye

In Malachi 3:8-11, God said all His children who are robbing Him in tithes and offerings have violated His covenant, and therefore are under a divine curse. However, He says if they will restitute their ways, He will personally rebuke the devourer for their sakes and open the windows of Heaven to them and give them a blessing they will be unable to contain. There are two type of devourers – the ones sent by the devil (John 10:10) and the ones sent by God. To deal with the devourers sent by the devil, simply resist him and he will flee from you as long as you are in right standing before God. But to deal with the devourers sent by God, it is through restitution. You will have to cry to God for forgiveness and thereafter undo what made Him to send the devourers in the first place. Do you owe God in tithes, offerings, thanksgiving or vows? Ask for forgiveness and go ahead and pay what you owe. If it is in tithes, also add 20% as interest being the penalty or eating your tithes (Leviticus 27:31).

https://www.nairaland.com/1458058/open-heavens-daily-devotional-sunday

Pat Robertson

Quoting Malachi, Robertson responded, “Your husband has all these medical problems because the ‘devourer’ has not been rebuked. You need to rebuke him. You give your tithes faithfully and God said, ‘I will rebuke the devourer,’ the person that is eating up your money and eating up your health. So you want to be healthy? That’s a promise in the Word.”

https://www.nairaland.com/1541026/pat-robertson-tells-elderly-woman

Creflo Dollar

''Now, you know, we’re under the Blood of Jesus, so we can’t shoot and stone people like we used to. All we have to do is repent and God will forgive us and take us where we need to be. But I can tell you, man, if it wasn’t for the Blood, there’d be a whole lot of us being stoned and being in Hell right now over the tithe. But for [“if not for”?] the Blood of Jesus, we’d be doomed.

I mean, I thought about when we first built “The Dome,” I wanted to put some of those little moving bars and give everybody a little card. They’d stick it in a little computer slot. If they were tithing, beautiful music would go off and, you know, [Creflo sings] “Welcome, welcome, welcome to the World Dome.” [Congregation laughs.]

But…if they were non-tithers, the bar would lock up, the red and blue lights would start going, the siren would go off, and a voice would go out throughout the entire dome, “Crook, crook, crook, crook!” [Congregation laughs.] Security would go and apprehend them, and once we got them all together, we’d line them up in the front and pass out Uzis by the ushers and point our Uzis right at all those non-tithing members ’cause we want God to come to church, and at the count of three “Jesus”-es we’d shoot them all dead. And then we’d take them out the side door there, have a big hole, bury them, and then go ahead and have church and have the anointing. [Mostly silence in the congregation, but one or two still actually laugh.]

Aren’t you glad we’re under the Blood of Jesus? [“Yeah, yeah,” from the congregation.] Because if we were not under the Blood of Jesus, I would certainly try it.''

http://kennethcopelandblog.com/2011/06/15/creflo-dollar-says-shoot-them-all-dead/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDNxZcOa8

I'm sure you'll agree with me that its wickedness that makes messages like this come out and it's totally unchristian.

1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jo 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

This is actually talking about the needy among the brethren and folks who have mentioned it on this thread have been accused of playing Judas. If you're now getting concerned about the poor, then that's a good thing. Hope you'll help others see the necessity of taking welfare of needy brethren close to their hearts?

Matthew 25:40 And the king shall answer and say unto them, Verily i say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me

Giving to the poor equates to giving God almighty as Christ affirmed in that scripture. It means a needy brother can even collect your tithe if you must pay it after all Christ said he could be represented by them and we all, individually are priests and are called God's temple.

if we have this world's good, and we know the need of the Church. Why shut our bowels of compassion and make some groanings about agricultural products and levites and storehouses? You have the money, the Church needs the money, i want to give the money. But you are on about yam, wheat, cassava and turkey. How dwelleth the love of God in him? It's a valid question. Let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Blackmail alert! Blackmail alert!!

No christian is against giving in a gathering of believers. No christian is against meeting the legitimate needs of the church. No christian is interested in starving the body of Christ of necessary resources. The contention has always been against manipulating Christians to give or threatening them to give.

Just allow the children of God be led by this scripture below and you'll see all of us living happily ever after

2Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

God bless you

Classic Image123 playing damsel in distress. They are out to infringe his right. Come Lord Jesus.
When all your fickle arguments to prop tithing are shot down, you plead your RIGHT
You are in bondage. Ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome? You are defending your captors, unless you are a tithe collector
https://www.nairaland.com/2018730/tithing-walking-dead

It is pretty lame quoting that verse to justify tithing when it asked them to do ALL of the Law. It is intellectual dishonest to pretend that this verse has never been debunked in your eyes.

Confronting the pious fraud of manipulating believers to part with their money is what we are all about. If your church would starve of funds if people gave Freewill, then they need deliverance not extortion in the name of God

Image123:
Luk 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.
Luk 11:40 Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?
Luk 11:41 But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The Pharisees were hypocrites because they made the outside clean but the inside was very dirty and wickedness. They dwelt on none essentials and were mainly driven by the letter of the law. Here were people who thought it is not lawful to put their 30pieces of silver in the treasury but had no problem using the same money to damn a disciple to betray the Lord's Christ. Did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? Are not the silver and gold God's? What makes agricultural produce more God's and holier than silver and gold? Is God's holy Hill not laden with gold and precious stones? Give alms of such things as ye have.
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

Why would anyone attack and contest vigorously what i give of mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Why are antitithers more concerned than God about my tithes of mine own income? Antitihers are disturbed, they are uneasy, they are very worried, troubled and agitated. Almost traumatized to see me do what i will with mine own. It's perpetually amusing, is there a spirit of some sort behind these? It's not normal. You know, i've met non-tithers, and have met and have friends and believers who do not agree with or have the same opinions and Bible perspectives as i do. but antitithers, they are a different brand entirely. Ironically, antitithers are aware of the effectiveness and provision of tithes and gracious, bountiful giving. They make a lot of noise and publicity about how tithes make pastors the richest in the world, or something along those lines. i think a lot of their opinion is exaggerated though.
But the point is that if tithes is so acclaimed and agreed to be saturating/overfilling in the church, why the bile against it? Why pass over the love of God as it were?
1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jo 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

if we have this world's good, and we know the need of the Church. Why shut our bowels of compassion and make some groanings about agricultural products and levites and storehouses? You have the money, the Church needs the money, i want to give the money. But you are on about yam, wheat, cassava and turkey. How dwelleth the love of God in him? It's a valid question. Let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

You have not explained how you invented collection of Abrahamic tithe and payment of the same to Melchizedek through your church yet Abraham paid Melchizedek directly.

You are now BLAMING Holy Spirit for this structure by throwing 1 Corinthians. The reason is simple, you are trying to inject your fantasies into the Word of God. There is no place found for them.

Jesus Christ holds different offices.
He is the Lamb of God and to walk in that reality, you don't offer lambs
He is the first fruits, first born from the dead, you don't offer firstborn sons or first ripe crops to him

The ONLY thing Jesus commanded us to was the Lord's table to commemorate his death, not ANY of His Offices. As a High Priest, he does not NEED any sacrifices anymore seeing His own sacrifice was sufficient, otherwise you may want to take goats to your pastor for sacrificing to Melchizedek because of the gift of Administration

Image123:



1 Corinthians 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

You said that i invented administrations/administrative procedures, i simply showed you that the church has DIFFERENT administrations. Administration brings in management, direction, order, government and organisation. There are different levels and types of this in the Church. There is nothing wrong or unbiblical with believers having a structure or format of doing things, instead of everyman as it is right in his own eyes.
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
It is not my fault if you do not believe that. When you persecute the church like Paul, you are persecuting Christ. When you give to the church, you are giving to Christ.

1Jo 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Image123:

You asked if it's the Word of God, i said it is the word of God. What is avoided again, you didn't get the answer you wish to get?

You don't really expect that I will just accept your word without biblical references, do you? Expecially now that I am already having doubts about whether the "word" in question is yours or God's.

chillykelly86:

It is either you didn't understand the question or you avoided the substance of the question.
For the sake of clarity, is this the Word of God, "Tithe is given to God through the church, His body."?

I expect you to biblically show me that "tithe is given to God through the church".

chillykelly86:


You don't really expect that I will just accept your word without biblical references, do you? Expecially now that I am already having doubts about whether the "word" in question is yours or God's.


I expect you to biblically show me that "tithe is given to God through the church".

It is simple really.There are Christians who tithe without having any problems doing so.
No verse in the Bible condemns anyone for tithing.
Tithing in itself as a form of giving is not condemned anywhere in the Bible.Those who want to express their giving in the form of tithes TODAY are absolutely free to do so.
Although all Christians are priests and disciples of the Lord, the NT shows that there are those who are placed in authority as far as SERVICE is concerned. The idea that "no one of us is higher than another" is true only in the sense of salvation; but it is absolutely false in terms of SERVICE.

Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 12:28 (KJV) that "God hath set some in the church, FIRST apostles, SECONDARILY prophets, THIRDLY teachers, AFTER THAT miracles, THEN gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." This quite clearly demonstrates that some in the Church are higher than others according to responsibility in service.

This is why the same Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 uses the Law of Moses as his basis for Biblical giving in support of those who preach the Gospel -

[list]Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.[/list]

In his argument in 1 Corinthians 9:13, Paul does not mention any of the types of offerings for supporting the priests. However, among the several ways in which ministers of the Temple and the Altar receive their sustenance in the OT, Numbers 18 outlines the tithes under the Levitical system. Paul draws from such passages in the Law of Moses to conclude that "In the same way" the Lord has ordained giving for ministers in the NT.

It is particularly interesting that verse 14 says this NT Christian giving should be "In the same way" (KJV) as those in the Law of Moses gave to ministers of the OT. The Amplified Bible renders it as "On the same principle". There is no verse that condemns tithing in itself anywhere in the NT, or even in the OT. If God so wanted badly to end tithing in all its forms anywhere in the NT, there definitely would have been clear condemnation of tithing in the teaching of the apostles.

Christians in the NT can draw guidelines from the OT Scriptures for practical giving today. That does not mean we therefore come under the operation of the old covenant of Judaism - no. Rather, in the same way as the apostle Paul drew largely from the Levitical system in the Law of Moses to teach about Christian giving for ministers of the Gospel, so it is in the same manner that many Christians express their giving in the form of tithes in their churches.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 has absolutely nothing to do with Pastors of Churches.

The context is speaking of Apostles, those separated from the Local Body of Believers and sent into a lost world to preach the Gospel.

And Paul could not have been speaking of tithes in that passage either. Tithes still belonged to the Levites at that time. Paul was a Benjamite and had no authority to receive tithes.

People often try to use 1 Corinthians 9 to prove that tithes are expected in the Church when that passage cannot be speaking of tithes at all.

Bidam:
There is no verse that condemns tithing in itself anywhere in the NT, or even in the OT. If God so wanted badly to end tithing in all its forms anywhere in the NT, there definitely would have been clear condemnation of tithing in the teaching of the apostles.

This kind of reasoning is fatally flawed for the following reasons;
1. Should the New Testament re-list all of the hundreds of Old Testament laws and covenants that we do not have to follow?

2. The New Testament does not teach us to stop all of the other types of offerings Israel gave either.

3. Where does the New Testament teach you that its okay to tithe money?

4. The New Testament is totally silent on the following

Deuteronomy 23:2- bastards banned from entering the congregation
Deuteronomy 25:5-10 - Wife inheritance
Leviticus 15:19- Women isolation during their periods
Leviticus 21:1- Priests making marks for the dead
Can we practice the same because they are NOWHERE forbidden in the New Testament? This serves to demonstrate how boneheaded it is to argue that since Tithing is not condemned, it was to continue

The fact that the Levitical System around which tithing was constructed collapsed and was put away is enough to tell you that tithing is gone

Christians in the NT can draw guidelines from the OT Scriptures for practical giving today. That does not mean we therefore come under the operation of the old covenant of Judaism - no. Rather, in the same way as the apostle Paul drew largely from the Levitical system in the Law of Moses to teach about Christian giving for ministers of the Gospel, so it is in the same manner that many Christians express their giving in the form of tithes in their churches.

When Paul was making his case for his right to support from the church, a RIGHT he forfeited, he drew from four examples; two were secular- farmer and soldier, two were Mosaic, the Ox and the Levitical system.
In Neither of these was Paul calling CHristians to become soldiers or farmers or keep ox or Levites. The principle in these examples is RIGHT to livelihood for services rendered and not right to a tithe. This is the ONLY common theme in the four examples.
When I support a minister, am effectively living out the principle. What is rejected is the notion that ONLY tithing realizes the principle in hand

MarkMiwerds:
Image is constantly vilifying us, trying to paint us as against people giving altogether.

We have consistently said we are not against people giving. We are against people saying God requires tithes of money when His Word never says so. We are against statements like "tithes are given to God through the Church" and that "it is the Word of God" when there is not one iota of Scripture to support such claims.

Where is the Scripture that says "tithes are given to God through the Church"? How do we know God accepts such tithes when there is absolutely no evidence that He ever accepted tithes of money in the Tabernacle or Temple?

Where is the Scripture, Image? You said "it is the Word of God". So, produce the Scripture, or admit that it is not the Word of God but merely your opinion.

@chillykelly86 pay attention this time please. Where have i said you are against giving altogether? You have no problem making unfounded inferences from my post but get all heated up when i make inference from the Bible. Hypocrisy. Tithe is a form of giving and if you are not against giving, you would not be against tithing. Can i tithe? Can i call my tithe tithe? Are you in position to hinder people from giving? Can you give to God through the church? Can you persecute God by persecuting the Church? Is the church the body of Christ?
Do i expect you to answer these questions?

Break down your logic
1. Tithing is giving
2. We are against tithing

CONCLUSION
We are against giving!

1 is wrong. Tithing is NOT giving. If tithing is giving as opposed to a command, why should there be threats of curses and Devourer? Tithing was a commandment with dire consequences for breaking.
2 is equally wrong is wrong my friend. We are against MANIPULATION in the name of giving. This is done by creating commandments from God and IMPOSING then on believers. At this point it is no longer giving but commandments

There is no way Paul would write that we should give as we purposes in our hearts without compulsion while at the same time an externally set fraction of 10% is REQUIRED of us. That's a contradiction

You Image123 can tithe or do more, give 90% as long as you purpose in your heart without compulsion, without NOBODY dictating what you should give

Stop mixing imagery. Listen to yourself.Christ is High Priest, we are the body of Christ, we are the Body of Melchizedek, we can collect tithes on behalf of the head. That's confusion. Christ is also Alpha and Omega and the Word of God. Is the Church Alpha and Omega and the Word of God?

Image123:

@chillykelly86 pay attention this time please. Where have i said you are against giving altogether? You have no problem making unfounded inferences from my post but get all heated up when i make inference from the Bible. Hypocrisy. Tithe is a form of giving and if you are not against giving, you would not be against tithing. Can i tithe? Can i call my tithe tithe? Are you in position to hinder people from giving? Can you give to God through the church? Can you persecute God by persecuting the Church? Is the church the body of Christ?
Do i expect you to answer these questions?

vooks:
Classic Image123 playing damsel in distress. They are out to infringe his right. Come Lord Jesus.
When all your fickle arguments to prop tithing are shot down, you plead your RIGHT
You are in bondage. Ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome? You are defending your captors, unless you are a tithe collector
https://www.nairaland.com/2018730/tithing-walking-dead

It is pretty lame quoting that verse to justify tithing when it asked them to do ALL of the Law. It is intellectual dishonest to pretend that this verse has never been debunked in your eyes.

Confronting the pious fraud of manipulating believers to part with their money is what we are all about. If your church would starve of funds if people gave Freewill, then they need deliverance not extortion in the name of God

i didn't play or joke, i stated facts. Antitithers on NL are infringing on the liberty to give the tithes. Giving out is not bondage to me, especially when it is to the Body of Christ. You have a right to your opinions though, just don't force them on us. The passage i quoted don't say to do ALL the law. This is mischief at work. Please show me/us where this passage was debunked(whatever that means) in my eyes?
There is fraud and abuse everywhere and in every Christian doctrine as it were. We don't throw away the baby with the bathing water. We on this forum try as much as possible to SHOW THE BASIS for tithing. On the other hand, antitithers eternally try to mischievously tie us to all abuses and a force to tithe. Manipulation is wrong, whether to tithe or not to tithe. I give my tithes freewill, remember that.

Image123:

@chillykelly86 pay attention this time please. Where have i said you are against giving altogether? You have no problem making unfounded inferences from my post but get all heated up when i make inference from the Bible. Hypocrisy. Tithe is a form of giving and if you are not against giving, you would not be against tithing. Can i tithe? Can i call my tithe tithe? Are you in position to hinder people from giving? Can you give to God through the church? Can you persecute God by persecuting the Church? Is the church the body of Christ?
Do i expect you to answer these questions?

You still haven't answered my question on whether you tithe out of the egunje you collect as a public servant.

According to image:

Tithe is a form of giving and if you are not against giving, you would not be against tithing.

According to Oyakhilome's devotional:

Actually, you pay your tithe; [size=14pt]you don’t give it[/size], as you would your free-will offering. So your tithe is not a gift, because you don’t pay a gift.

Bidam:
It is simple really.There are Christians who tithe without having any problems doing so.
No verse in the Bible condemns anyone for tithing.
Tithing in itself as a form of giving is not condemned anywhere in the Bible.Those who want to express their giving in the form of tithes TODAY are absolutely free to do so.
Although all Christians are priests and disciples of the Lord, the NT shows that there are those who are placed in authority as far as SERVICE is concerned. The idea that "no one of us is higher than another" is true only in the sense of salvation; but it is absolutely false in terms of SERVICE.

Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 12:28 (KJV) that "God hath set some in the church, FIRST apostles, SECONDARILY prophets, THIRDLY teachers, AFTER THAT miracles, THEN gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." This quite clearly demonstrates that some in the Church are higher than others according to responsibility in service.

This is why the same Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 uses the Law of Moses as his basis for Biblical giving in support of those who preach the Gospel -

[list]Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.[/list]

In his argument in 1 Corinthians 9:13, Paul does not mention any of the types of offerings for supporting the priests. However, among the several ways in which ministers of the Temple and the Altar receive their sustenance in the OT, Numbers 18 outlines the tithes under the Levitical system. Paul draws from such passages in the Law of Moses to conclude that "In the same way" the Lord has ordained giving for ministers in the NT.

It is particularly interesting that verse 14 says this NT Christian giving should be "In the same way" (KJV) as those in the Law of Moses gave to ministers of the OT. The Amplified Bible renders it as "On the same principle". There is no verse that condemns tithing in itself anywhere in the NT, or even in the OT. If God so wanted badly to end tithing in all its forms anywhere in the NT, there definitely would have been clear condemnation of tithing in the teaching of the apostles.

Christians in the NT can draw guidelines from the OT Scriptures for practical giving today. That does not mean we therefore come under the operation of the old covenant of Judaism - no. Rather, in the same way as the apostle Paul drew largely from the Levitical system in the Law of Moses to teach about Christian giving for ministers of the Gospel, so it is in the same manner that many Christians express their giving in the form of tithes in their churches.

Beautiful and straight put. Lengthy posts please wait for now. @Candour etc