[quote author=9icetoo][/quote]
you have well 9icetoo,
i don't know about the corolla sports, but i am aware of the 2008 toyota corolla...family owned. The handling of that car is rubbish...during the fuel crises last year, i had the car with me for over a month and never enjoyed driving it, for real. It was so finicky when i tried to push it hard....which left me with a lot of thoughts in the aftermath

bendike: From personal experience, there is no comparism. The japanese cars are better built, more durable. Performance wise in terms of speed etc, you could give that to the europeans.
In the 90s i bought a 740i bmw. Same year just months between i bought a lexus ls400, both v8. Till date i still have both cars, i have only changed break pads and the regular oil change on the lexus. With the bmw, i had to almost monthy buy fuel pump from coscharis. Fews days after changing the pump it starts a wining sound until it packs up. While tthe bmw was more interesting and macho to drive, the lexus has probably covered 10 times the milage my bmw did.
The picture i am attqching should explain the rest.

I dont know about BMW, but i do know that in those days, almost all Euro and American cars had two fuel pumps: in-tank pump & external/main pump. If the in-tank pump fails, the main pump will still run the car. But it will die quicker and the car may give fuel starvation symptom (car stalling as soon as fuel goes below half tank). But not in all cases.

Also, when the in-tank pump fails, the external pump buzzing sound will increase (which may be probably the whinning sound you were hearing). It means the external pump was over working and would die very quiclkly. So as long as you dont replace the failed in-tank pump, you are just wasting your money replacing the main pump failing on you, when the issue has not been addressed.

Too bad that Choscaris couldnt find the root cause of the pump failure. After all, i took my car to ASD motors, Peugeot dealership, here in Abuja, to fix an injection issue with my car. They told me it was out of their league. I brought my car back home and got it fixed myself. Go figure.

Best way of keeping a Euro car in good condition is by understand your car. Forget what your mechanic is telling you. Study your car, pay attention to every detail and you will able to know when something goes wrong and what caused it.

Finally, as far as Euro car is concerned, preventative maintenance is what keeps them running, as long as the owner wants. Dont let them breakdown on you. Most of the components would you give you sign before they give up. If you ignore those signs, you will pay the price. And always make use of your owners manual. Your car will never go wrong if you keep to the instructions on the manual.

Ikenna.

platinumricky:
Bmw used to be an aircraft engine manufacturer, they went out of dat line long ago, chk ur facts.

BMW discontinued, but HONDA manufacture private & business jets

I think most people prefer European cars but just can't afford to buy and maintain them.From my observations if all is equal the Asian cars are most reliable.I think they are more basic and have far greater tolerance than the European cars.This is why I think they are more reliable. On durability...not looking at costs..if the car is taken to the dealership for scheduled maintenance then I think the European car is more durable. On performance the European cars are definitely better. Hmmm...four full sized Americans in an Asian car...same in a European car...Racing uphill...which one gets there first? My last observation is that European cars generally depreciate in value faster than Asian cars...a 1997 Toyota Camry and 1997 Mercedes Benz...same price range when they were nowhere equal when new...why?

Ikenna351: @ Ikeyman00,

Honda is another good Japs i forgot to mention. I have driven Accord V6 2001 (Babyboy) & Accord V6 2004 (EOD). Very quick cars, except if one can live with their front swivel/ball joint and auto transmission issues.

If i were to choose between Honda Accord and Toyota Camry of any model year, I would pick Accord without a blink. But then, considering how hard i push my car on highway, i wouldnt want to end up with a car that its wheel ball joint will give up on high speed while jumping potholes on our highways.

The truth is, Japs cars are reliable cars, when carefully handled or used and when well maintained. When used as daily driver, they hardly give the owners headaches. But once you start pushing them around anyhow like one can do to a Euro car and get away with it, they will start falling apart very quickly. They are just everyday car for non petrolheads who are after point A to point B. But may God help you when the follow come parts starts failing, the mechanics and parts sellers will now be the people to enjoys your salary or monthly income, since you will have to be replacing those parts every now and then. You can ask Toyota owners how many times they replace their shock absorbers in a year. Some dont even bother replacing them anymore.


Ikenna.

You just described me.

yungboss:
your views are parochial my friend. Move away from Nigeria (here is more of a dumping ground), ask the guys in motorsports these questions lets here the results, not the poor Nigerian Bankers and traders who know nothing about vehicles...

last time I checked the best selling cars in the USA is still Toyota and Honda. So what do u call that? Do u mean those people don't have money or they don't know how to maintain their cars. Toyota and Honda are more reliable that's why

elviszzz: I still see a 1982 mercedes benz all ova d place but can't find a japanese of dat same year on d streets? What happened to dem? Comparing german cars wit japanese is like comparing a 5 star hotel wit a chalet.

The reason u still see 1982 Mercedes Benz around in Nigeria is because those days Japanese cars haven't really perfected their technology. Those days of regular Benz and Volvo. Those days only the extremely rich can afford a car, But of recent u have to give it to the Japanese. They make cars for every category depending on ur pocket and their cars are reliable. You can abuse a Japanese car but u can't try that with European cars without messing things up, You also have to give it to Japanese cars for making cars cheaper and more affordable today. Its called competition. If Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda have not forced their ways into the market, I'm sure we will still be buying cars at extremely expensive prices. Its just like when GSM first came into the country. I remember I bought my first MTN sim card for 23,000 naira because there was no competition. There was no 3g not to talk of HSPA+ and yet expensive. I believe the competition the Japanese cars gave made Benz and BMW to start making affordable cars. Also someone said Japanese cars are junks, so why is Toyota and Honda still the best selling cars even in the USA. Simply put, u want an everyday car, buy a japanese car. You want a car u drive occasionally, then Benz, Audi, BMW etc.

Ikenna351: @ Ikeyman00,

Honda is another good Japs i forgot to mention. I have driven Accord V6 2001 (Babyboy) & Accord V6 2004 (EOD). Very quick cars, except if one can live with their front swivel/ball joint and auto transmission issues.

If i were to choose between Honda Accord and Toyota Camry of any model year, I would pick Accord without a blink. But then, considering how hard i push my car on highway, i wouldnt want to end up with a car that its wheel ball joint will give up on high speed while jumping potholes on our highways.

The truth is, Japs cars are reliable cars, when carefully handled or used and when well maintained. When used as daily driver, they hardly give the owners headaches. But once you start pushing them around anyhow like one can do to a Euro car and get away with it, they will start falling apart very quickly. They are just everyday car for non petrolheads who are after point A to point B. But may God help you when the follow come parts starts failing, the mechanics and parts sellers will now be the people to enjoys your salary or monthly income, since you will have to be replacing those parts every now and then. You can ask Toyota owners how many times they replace their shock absorbers in a year. Some dont even bother replacing them anymore.

Ikenna.

@Ikenna
About the honda accord ball joint falling apart, u might be right but to some extent. Its not just Honda accord ball joints that fall apart. I have see lots of Benz with fallen ball joints on the road. The problem with honda is substandard parts sold in Nigeria. I drive a 2005 Accord and I have experienced a fallen ball joint once. My fault because i allowed the mechanic to put a fake ball joint when I first bought the car. Even my current mechanic saw it then and told me it won't be long before it falls off which eventually did after a few months. There are original ball joints in Ebutte Metta. They are more expensive but be sure they won't fall off easily like the fake ones that litter the market. I really don't know why part dealers ship a lot of fake Honda ball joints into our market so people beware. The fact still remains there are genuine ones.

One more thing.. the reason u see more Honda or Toyota that have broken down on the road is because on an average Nigerian road, before u see 1 german/european car, u would have counted about 7 toyotas and hondas.

ikeyman00: @@@@
ikenna


well the only reason u get to see cv wahala a lot in naija is i put it down to bad used parts and knowning the sensitivity of these area an average driver doesnt care when the rubber boots breaks which get contaminated with debris and rust

this is what u get then!

and mind u as for ur everyday drive thing mind u honda halla still kick around in the country; i still remember seeing one in lokoja high way flying like a saucer in 2011

And before An Accord ball joint falls off, you would have seen the sign, U would hear the sounds while turning but a lot of people choose to ignore that

elektra80:

The reason u still see 1982 Mercedes Benz around in Nigeria is because those days Japanese cars haven't really perfected their technology. Those days of regular Benz and Volvo. Those days only the extremely rich can afford a car, But of recent u have to give it to the Japanese. They make cars for every category depending on ur pocket and their cars are reliable. You can abuse a Japanese car but u can't try that with European cars without messing things up, You also have to give it to Japanese cars for making cars cheaper and more affordable today. Its called competition. If Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda have not forced their ways into the market, I'm sure we will still be buying cars at extremely expensive prices. Its just like when GSM first came into the country. I remember I bought my first MTN sim card for 23,000 naira because there was no competition. There was no 3g not to talk of HSPA+ and yet expensive. I believe the competition the Japanese cars gave made Benz and BMW to start making affordable cars. Also someone said Japanese cars are junks, so why is Toyota and Honda still the best selling cars even in the USA. Simply put, u want an everyday car, buy a japanese car. You want a car u drive occasionally, then Benz, Audi, BMW etc.

This your analysis, na wa o! What is it with this USA everywhere. You are sounding as if anything that is not in American market or not used by Americans is not good, genuine or considered better. What made you think Americans know better than Europeans? What made you think what they reject is considered junk? Why do you find them so supperior to inhabitants of other regions? I dont know how to tell you this, but its bad to have the idea that whatever a fellow being likes is better than what you have or likes. That is big time follow-follow propaganda.

North Americans drive more of petrol cars, while Europeans drive more of diesels. Dose that means the North Americans knows better than the Europeans? Americans drive more of auto tranny cars, while Europeans still demand for manual trans cars. Does it means Europeans think through their anus?

Honda Accord has American speccs and Euro speccs of the same year model of all Accord generations. Ever bothered to know why? Honda knows what Europeans wants in a car and they give them what they want, likewise the North Americans. Each specifications is according to market demand.

My point? Stop using what Americans drive or what sells more there as yardstick as what is the best. Each region/people got their taste.

USA and Canada never got Peugeot 406 and subsequent newer Peugeot products. Yet, 406 sold massivley in other continents. Can you go out, find a parked 406, take a close look at her and come back and tell me "there is nothing special about the car"? So because Canada and US didnt drive 406, the car no follow, abi? Nigerians are even going for the cheap RHD converted 406 just to enjoy the product. Do you know how Americans wished they had got the 406 in various online French car forums?

Now, back to your analysis proper. Who told you Benz and BMW car prices have dropped from what they used to be back in the days? Help me out here. What are the prices of brand new 2012/Toyota Camry, Collora, Yaris, etc? Also, what are the prices of brand new 2012/2013 Benz E-class, C-class, A-class, etc. Please, give the USD equivalents.

Am waiting.

Ikenna

elektra80:

@Ikenna
About the honda accord ball joint falling apart, u might be right but to some extent. Its not just Honda accord ball joints that fall apart. I have see lots of Benz with fallen ball joints on the road. The problem with honda is substandard parts sold in Nigeria. I drive a 2005 Accord and I have experienced a fallen ball joint once. My fault because i allowed the mechanic to put a fake ball joint when I first bought the car. Even my current mechanic saw it then and told me it won't be long before it falls off which eventually did after a few months. There are original ball joints in Ebutte Metta. They are more expensive but be sure they won't fall off easily like the fake ones that litter the market. I really don't know why part dealers ship a lot of fake Honda ball joints into our market so people beware. The fact still remains there are genuine ones.

One more thing.. the reason u see more Honda or Toyota that have broken down on the road is because on an average Nigerian road, before u see 1 german/european car, u would have counted about 7 toyotas and hondas.

You made it sound as if only Jap cars have fake parts in the country. Eh? How many Toyotas have you seen with their ball joints pulling apart on our roads? What about the Toyota shock absorbers that fail every other day? Are you saying other brands dont jump those gullies and potholes with them, yet theirs will fail before you say jack?

My point is, these are design flaws. A Toyota Camry will enter Nigeria shore and be driven for 3 years. The 4th year, the suspension will fail. Yet, nothing has happened to the front swivel/ball joint, even after 5 years or more on our beautiful roads. A Honda Accord would be shipped into the country and sold the same year the Camry was brought in. 2 years later, the ball joint fails, while the suspension remained intact even upto 4 years or more.

I dont defend Peugeots where they have flaws. Each car or brand has peculiar issues. It got nothing to do with quality of parts. Yes, the fake parts will make them fail soon, but you may find out that a company will produce two fake ball joints for two different cars. One may last longer than the other and the other fails sooner than expected. Installation or design matters. Probably, there is something wrong with the way the front end mechanicals of Accord rest on those ball joints that make them fail often than others.

PRV engine in early Volvo 760 GLE was the same PRV engine in 505 V6. Both were manufactured in the same compound, but were coupled differently by each manufacturer. Unfortunately, the Volvo 760 GLE suffered camshaft failure uptill 1988 due to oil stavation in that chamber. Yet, no single 505 V6 was ever reported to have had such camshaft wear or failure. The two comapnies assembled the engines with the same parts, but different installation/design. It was later in 1988 that Volvo got it right.

So, its not always about the fake products in our markets, but design flaws as well. Visit Honda online forums and you will see Nigerians are not the only people complaining of the peculiar issues with the Honda, even from those that bought them new, used them before we took over.

Ikenna

Ikenna351:

This your analysis, na wa o! What is it with this USA everywhere. You are sounding as if anything that is not in American market or not used by Americans is not good, genuine or considered better. What made you think Americans know better than Europeans? What made you think what they reject is considered junk? Why do you find them so supperior to inhabitants of other regions? I dont know how to tell you this, but its bad to have the idea that whatever a fellow being likes is better than what you have or likes. That is big time follow-follow propaganda.

North Americans drive more of petrol cars, while Europeans drive more of diesels. Dose that means the North Americans knows better than the Europeans? Americans drive more of auto tranny cars, while Europeans still demand for manual trans cars. Does it means Europeans think through their anus?

Honda Accord has American speccs and Euro speccs of the same year model of all Accord generations. Ever bothered to know why? Honda knows what Europeans wants in a car and they give them what they want, likewise the North Americans. Each specifications is according to market demand.

My point? Stop using what Americans drive or what sells more there as yardstick as what is the best. Each region/people got their taste.

USA and Canada never got Peugeot 406 and subsequent newer Peugeot products. Yet, 406 sold massivley in other continents. Can you go out, find a parked 406, take a close look at her and come back and tell me "there is nothing special about the car"? So because Canada and US didnt drive 406, the car no follow, abi? Nigerians are even going for the cheap RHD converted 406 just to enjoy the product. Do you know how Americans wished they had got the 406 in various online French car forums?

Now, back to your analysis proper. Who told you Benz and BMW car prices have dropped from what they used to be back in the days? Help me out here. What are the prices of brand new 2012/Toyota Camry, Collora, Yaris, etc? Also, what are the prices of brand new 2012/2013 Benz E-class, C-class, A-class, etc. Please, give the USD equivalents.

Am waiting.

Ikenna

@Ikenna
No be fight oo. I used USA just as a reference. And let's face it, California alone is bigger than lots of European countries put together. Check the size of California and the check the size of say Germany. My point is US has the bigger market here and that's why I used it as a reference. And if Toyota can dominate America, not to talk of Japan and other Asian countries, then they are the best selling auto maker in the world and it means they are doing something right to bring the BALANCE to reliability, stability, performance and affordability. Pls note that I used the word BALANCE.

And about the 406.. I drove the 2002 model when I was outside the country for several months. No doubt its got nice build quality, great handling and the ac is a beast. But I must say I visit the garage too many times because of one electical problem or the other. I had problems with the ac for too many times, but when it works its great. Now I'm not saying its a bad car just because mine had problems, each car has their pros and cons. I remember Peugeot use to be the best selling car in Nigeria for many years but then what happened? They lost their market share. The 607 is a nightmare of a car and people are selling it at cheap prices. Check the prices of say a 2002 toyota camry against the same year model of 406 and tell me which one would attract more market. You will buy a 2002 406 at a more cheaper price than u buy the 2002 camry. But when brand new, they both might be of same price range or the 406 might even be more expensive. So Japanese cars have better second hand value which means they are doing something right, this is not a matter of follow follow. The whole market can't go wrong. Mind u I am not even a Toyota fan.

About Prices.. no doubt German cars are more expensive than JApanese counterparts, but that is because Japanese bring a BALANCE to the game, which is what majority of people want. But no doubt the Japanese are pushing the Europeans harder and the price difference is not so much these days. I am talking in the mid side sedan category which is what most people drive anyway.. not talking about performance cars like the SLS AMG. The 2013 toyota camry xle sells for roughly $31,000 while the 2013 Benz E350 (fair comparison) sells for about $51,000. That's a whooping $20,000 difference but we all know with Benz u get top notch quality. But then if u buy both cars and say after 10 years u wanna sell them, don't be surprised if both cars will sell for the same price, or the Benz might just be a fraction more expensive (maybe by 1-3,000 USD). Also if u can use the camry as a daily driver, it can take lots of abuse and still run. Try using the Benz as ur daily driver. In fact use both cars as ur daily driver and after 3 years make account of how much u have spent in maintaining both cars, the cost of running the Benz (as a daily driver) would be enough to buy u 2 new cars. Just my opinion.

Just go to the autos section and u will see a 2000 mercedes Benz E320 tokunbo selling for 1-1.1 Million naira. Same price as 2000 Toyota camry aka big light. The Benz is way ahead of the camry in technology, that big light has the worst dashboard I've ever seen in a car, and it has just 2 airbags. But then, after 13 years it sells at the same price as the big Benz e230 of the same year.
ur turn Ikenna

elektra80:

@Ikenna
No be fight oo. I used USA just as a reference. And let's face it, California alone is bigger than lots of European countries put together. Check the size of California and the check the size of say Germany. My point is US has the bigger market here and that's why I used it as a reference. And if Toyota can dominate America, not to talk of Japan and other Asian countries, then they are the best selling auto maker in the world and it means they are doing something right to bring the BALANCE to reliability, stability, performance and affordability. Pls note that I used the word BALANCE.

And about the 406.. I drove the 2002 model when I was outside the country for several months. No doubt its got nice build quality, great handling and the ac is a beast. But I must say I visit the garage too many times because of one electical problem or the other. I had problems with the ac for too many times, but when it works its great. Now I'm not saying its a bad car just because mine had problems, each car has their pros and cons. I remember Peugeot use to be the best selling car in Nigeria for many years but then what happened? They lost their market share. The 607 is a nightmare of a car and people are selling it at cheap prices. Check the prices of say a 2002 toyota camry against the same year model of 406 and tell me which one would attract more market. You will buy a 2002 406 at a more cheaper price than u buy the 2002 camry. But when brand new, they both might be of same price range or the 406 might even be more expensive. So Japanese cars have better second hand value which means they are doing something right, this is not a matter of follow follow. The whole market can't go wrong. Mind u I am not even a Toyota fan.

About Prices.. no doubt German cars are more expensive than JApanese counterparts, but that is because Japanese bring a BALANCE to the game, which is what majority of people want. But no doubt the Japanese are pushing the Europeans harder and the price difference is not so much these days. I am talking in the mid side sedan category which is what most people drive anyway.. not talking about performance cars like the SLS AMG. The 2013 toyota camry xle sells for roughly $31,000 while the 2013 Benz E350 (fair comparison) sells for about $51,000. That's a whooping $20,000 difference but we all know with Benz u get top notch quality. But then if u buy both cars and say after 10 years u wanna sell them, don't be surprised if both cars will sell for the same price, or the Benz might just be a fraction more expensive (maybe by 1-3,000 USD). Also if u can use the camry as a daily driver, it can take lots of abuse and still run. Try using the Benz as ur daily driver. In fact use both cars as ur daily driver and after 3 years make account of how much u have spent in maintaining both cars, the cost of running the Benz (as a daily driver) would be enough to buy u 2 new cars. Just my opinion.

Just go to the autos section and u will see a 2000 mercedes Benz E320 tokunbo selling for 1-1.1 Million naira. Same price as 2000 Toyota camry aka big light. The Benz is way ahead of the camry in technology, that big light has the worst dashboard I've ever seen in a car, and it has just 2 airbags. But then, after 13 years it sells at the same price as the big Benz e230 of the same year.
ur turn Ikenna

I noticed some flaws in your analogy which I need to point out. First you talked about California being bigger than most European countries put together, bigger in what sense? Population or Land mass? If your reference is Land mass, I may give it to you but the land mass of a country/state does not buy products, people do. Are you saying the population of California is more than the population of Germany put together? Common! And that does not make the people of California better in decision making.

I will reserve my comment on the other points raised.

Thanks.

omodapson:

I noticed some flaws in your analogy which I need to point out. First you talked about California being bigger than most European countries put together, bigger in what sense? Population or Land mass? If your reference is Land mass, I may give it to you but the land mass of a country/state does not buy products, people do. Are you saying the population of California is more than the population of Germany put together? Common! And that does not make the people of California better in decision making.

I will reserve my comment on the other points raised.

Thanks.

The poster's analogy was somewhat on point. California has the 12th largest economy in the world, so that does make its economy larger than that of some European nations. The poster's analogy seems to be that with that much (theoretical) purchasing power available, they still go for the much - derided Toyotas and Hondas and so forth. And for what its worth I run a Camry, but if I had a choice I'd probably be running an Audi instead (an A6 or S8 )but I'm in Naija. I think that the Jap plastics are easier to keep on the road overall, here in Naija.

Cyberknight:

The poster's analogy was somewhat on point. California has the 12th largest economy in the world, so that does make its economy larger than that of some European nations. The poster's analogy seems to be that with that much (theoretical) purchasing power available, they still go for the much - derided Toyotas and Hondas and so forth. And for what its worth I run a Camry, but if I had a choice I'd probably be running an Audi instead (an A6 or S8 )but I'm in Naija. I think that the Jap plastics are easier to keep on the road overall, here in Naija.

U just said it bro. Its easier to keep the japs on the road in naija especially as a daily driver.
@Ikenna.. California is just one state in USA and the population is about 1/3 of the population of Germany, 1/2 the population of France. If u dominate the US market then definitely u have captured half of the world and that is the main reason Toyota and Honda are always up there. We also have Nissan and Hyundai up there. I like European/German machines, but recently they rush into using unproven technologies that give problem on the long run. Technologies the Japs would use 7 years after perfecting it.

can't really faullt your points elektra80...you are correct in the many points you made.