baby-boy:


Well that's what happens at the Hungeroring and that's why they call it Monaco without barriers, If you know how to place your car its difficult to overtake

Remember what Lewis did to Kimi last season?

True but there was some really good overtaking moves today I also think Seb having to start on the bad side of the track aided Ham off the grid and instead of making a pass on him he ended up having to defend his position against Grosjean

baby-boy:

Raikonnen did a great job, especially on the second stint but there are some things to think about for the people that think him moving to red bull should be a wrap. Grosjean has shown up Raikonnen for two races in a row in terms of race pace, although bad strategy cost him at Nurburgring and typical over aggression cost him here, it is something that will be noticed by Red bull.

Red Bull would probably go for Ricciardo. Younger,cheaper and easier to manage plus he's shown potential

baby-boy:

The other thing to bare in mind is that his inabiity to perform on a saturday will cost him alot more in a Red bull than a Lotus. We saw today how the red bull's lack of straight line speed made it ver difficult to pass button. IF Raikonnen goes to Red bull he cannot afford to be qualifying 6th and 7th. Vettel will have too much of an advantage on him a the start of races whilst Raikonnen will struggle to overtake the Ferrari's Mercedes and Lotus's, and all of this is assuming that he will have Vettel's race pace or better-there is of course the possibility he just wont be as fast as Vettel.

I hope MrBrownjay is reading cause in his eyes the Red Bull is above and beyond the other cars

Kimi is fast though he is just not as consistent as Vettel

MRbrownJAY: Alonso and Ferrari handed a €15K penalty for misuse of DRS during the race, supposedly he used it 3 times while being well over the 1 min limit............ i can already hear A40 and his AHA (Alonso hater Association) enjoy that news.

i know that the Ferraris are struggling with pace, but i hope it was a simple mistake and not some kind of cheating, like what happened with Mercedes and the tyre test saga. sadly, the AHA will have a field day.....oh well

15k pere? Lol that's lunch money to Alonso na anyway I've always known Alonso to be a cheat so this is hardly news person do something 3 times you say na mistake. A smaller driver would probably have gotten a harsher penalty!

A-40:

15k pere? Lol that's lunch money to Alonso na anyway I've always known Alonso to be a cheat so this is hardly news person do something 3 times you say na mistake. A smaller driver would probably have gotten a harsher penalty!

Can you imagine, if that was McLaren they would have thrown the book at them

maybe, the fact that Alonso/Ferrari gained absolutely NOTHING from the drs incident, is the reason why they were only penalized €15K

hey AHA guys, feast on that bone:

[b]Red Bull's team principal, Christian Horner, has refused to rule out a dream pairing of Sebastian Vettel and Fernando Alonso next year.

Mark Webber retires from Formula One at the end of the season and one of the most coveted drives in the sport was thought to have been between Kimi Raikkonen of Lotus and Daniel Ricciardo of Toro Rosso.

But when Alonso's name came up on Sunday Horner said: "It would be interesting. At the end of the day we have to do what is right for the team and the pairing that we put together next year will have to benefit the team.

"There are statements about Kimi and statements about Fernando but we have to make sure nothing clouds our judgment about next year. We want the two fastest drivers we can get who can work collectively together and achieve the best results for the team.

"We want to put the strongest drivers in the cars that we possibly can and Mark leaves some big shoes to fill."

There is also a suggestion that Vettel could go to Ferrari, potentially in a job swap with Alonso. He is likely to win his fourth straight title with Red Bull this year and, if he went to Maranello and won more championships there, it would confirm his reputation as one of the greatest drivers of them all.

The only trouble with that theory is that Vettel has recently extended his contract with Red Bull until the end of the 2015 season. Horner has also made it clear that there is no driver he would exchange Vettel for, and that includes Alonso.

The only solution, then, would be for the two drivers to join forces at Milton Keynes. But again that is not straightforward. Alonso wants to be top dog wherever he drives, as Lewis Hamilton and McLaren discovered in 2007. There is no way that Vettel would put up with that.

Perhaps Horner, who has a mischievous sense of fun, is merely trying to unsettle the Ferrari camp, though on recent form the Italian team are hardly a threat to his ambitions to win both world titles for the fourth consecutive year.

If Horner is spoofing, he maintained a straight face when he did so. He added: "We are in a fortunate position that there is a lot of interest in the seat for next year. We had a look at Daniel in the test, so we will take a little time over the summer and look at the options and look to make the right decision with the right pairing.

"Any conversations with any driver remain confidential. Of course, there has been quite a few drivers expressing interest in the seat. Is [Alonso] available? We are going to take a bit of time to make the right decision.

"We have some great options and we don't need to rush. There has not been any pressure that we must take a junior driver. It is a matter of fielding the best team. Of course, the junior drivers are under consideration but there is no prerequisite it has to be one of them."

There were reports in Germany's Sport Bild over the weekend that Red Bull had held talks with Alonso's manager, Luis García Abad. But the significance of this was played down by other parties.

Vettel said on Sunday: "I am sure that Fernando is a nice guy and I respect him as a driver. I would rather have Kimi. I have got to be careful what I say here but I respect him as a person and driver. He has always been very direct with me."

Alonso did not deny that his agent had been in touch with Red Bull. He had other matters to distract him, without Horner's carefully worded ambiguity.
[/b]

MRbrownJAY: hey AHA guys, feast on that bone:



The only solution, then, would be for the two drivers to join forces at Milton Keynes. But again that is not straightforward. Alonso wants to be top dog wherever he drives, as Lewis Hamilton and McLaren discovered in 2007. There is no way that Vettel would put up with that.

Christian Horner adds fuel to speculation that Fernando Alonso may be chasing Red Bull seat for 2014? He knows that by not flat out denying a rumour, the media will be all over it like a cheap suit, taking pressure off the Ricciardo/Raikonnen question.

So if Vettel doesnt want lewis what makes you think Vettel would put up with someone who requested that the seal on Massa's gear-box to be broken so that he could move from the dirty side to the clean side of the track?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypdEmVcNYJg

Honestly I see Vettel dish out a royal asswhooping because just like Kimi, Alonso too is poor at qualifying. Bear in mind Red Bull do not need the Spanish banks money (Santander) but Ferrari does need

MRbrownJAY: maybe, the fact that Alonso/Ferrari gained absolutely NOTHING from the drs incident, is the reason why they were only penalized €15K

The punishment was still a tad too light IMO

omar22:

Can you imagine, if that was McLaren they would have thrown the book at them

Different rules for Ferrari and the rest

MRbrownJAY: hey AHA guys, feast on that bone:

[b]Red Bull's team principal, Christian Horner, has refused to rule out a dream pairing of Sebastian Vettel and Fernando Alonso next year.

Mark Webber retires from Formula One at the end of the season and one of the most coveted drives in the sport was thought to have been between Kimi Raikkonen of Lotus and Daniel Ricciardo of Toro Rosso.

But when Alonso's name came up on Sunday Horner said: "It would be interesting. At the end of the day we have to do what is right for the team and the pairing that we put together next year will have to benefit the team.

"There are statements about Kimi and statements about Fernando but we have to make sure nothing clouds our judgment about next year. We want the two fastest drivers we can get who can work collectively together and achieve the best results for the team.

"We want to put the strongest drivers in the cars that we possibly can and Mark leaves some big shoes to fill."

There is also a suggestion that Vettel could go to Ferrari, potentially in a job swap with Alonso. He is likely to win his fourth straight title with Red Bull this year and, if he went to Maranello and won more championships there, it would confirm his reputation as one of the greatest drivers of them all.

The only trouble with that theory is that Vettel has recently extended his contract with Red Bull until the end of the 2015 season. Horner has also made it clear that there is no driver he would exchange Vettel for, and that includes Alonso.

The only solution, then, would be for the two drivers to join forces at Milton Keynes. But again that is not straightforward. Alonso wants to be top dog wherever he drives, as Lewis Hamilton and McLaren discovered in 2007. There is no way that Vettel would put up with that.

Perhaps Horner, who has a mischievous sense of fun, is merely trying to unsettle the Ferrari camp, though on recent form the Italian team are hardly a threat to his ambitions to win both world titles for the fourth consecutive year.

If Horner is spoofing, he maintained a straight face when he did so. He added: "We are in a fortunate position that there is a lot of interest in the seat for next year. We had a look at Daniel in the test, so we will take a little time over the summer and look at the options and look to make the right decision with the right pairing.

"Any conversations with any driver remain confidential. Of course, there has been quite a few drivers expressing interest in the seat. Is [Alonso] available? We are going to take a bit of time to make the right decision.

"We have some great options and we don't need to rush. There has not been any pressure that we must take a junior driver. It is a matter of fielding the best team. Of course, the junior drivers are under consideration but there is no prerequisite it has to be one of them."

There were reports in Germany's Sport Bild over the weekend that Red Bull had held talks with Alonso's manager, Luis García Abad. But the significance of this was played down by other parties.

Vettel said on Sunday: "I am sure that Fernando is a nice guy and I respect him as a driver. I would rather have Kimi. I have got to be careful what I say here but I respect him as a person and driver. He has always been very direct with me."

Alonso did not deny that his agent had been in touch with Red Bull. He had other matters to distract him, without Horner's carefully worded ambiguity.
[/b]

Loool there's 0% percent chance of that happening so don't get your hopes up! Alonso would need to take a paycut for starters plus he would be 33 next year. Red Bull have a top dog in their ranks already and he would be there till 2015 at least, he is a triple WC and could do a quadruple in the next few months. I think Red Bull would be looking towards long-term and perhaps grooming the next Vettel and not a megalomaniac like Alonso whose antecedents speak for him. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose by hiring Alonso

^^^by the following sentence, you know that the possibility of Ham or Alonso at RBR are much higher than 0%

"We want to put the strongest drivers in the cars that we possibly can"

MRbrownJAY: ^^^by the following sentence, you know that the possibility of Ham or Alonso at RBR are much higher than 0%

Having 2 World Champions in a team always result to nothing?

^^^^^nonsense!!!!!!
having two world champion in one team would result in winning everything, having both cars finish in the top 3, and last but not least positioning yourself in the world as the unbeatable team, with the unbeatable drivers!

Vettel is the ONLY one that delivers at RBR........and btw, Raikkonen is also a world champion.

MRbrownJAY: ^^^^^nonsense!!!!!!
having two world champion in one team would result in winning everything, having both cars finish in the top 3, and last but not least positioning yourself in the world as the unbeatable team, with the unbeatable drivers!

Vettel is the ONLY one that delivers at RBR........and btw, Raikkonen is also a world champion.

Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button says hi

MRbrownJAY: ^^^by the following sentence, you know that the possibility of Ham or Alonso at RBR are much higher than 0%

You seriously think Red Bull would throw away the consistency and reliability of Vettel for divas and drama queens like Ham or Alonso? Guys with obvious beef for Vettel? Horner can play with words all he wants but even he is answerable to Mateschitz and Red Bull are not acquiring guys that Vettel is not cool with that's for sure

^^^the important question you must ask yourself IS:"how long do you think Vettel would stay at RBR, knowing that nobody would ever believe he is "one of" the greatest of F1, until he wins the championship with another team?!"

his credibility as a great driver (after winning 3 Championship) is definitely not where it should be..... simply because he drives that RBR. yeah he is a good driver, won 3 wdc, yep.......one of the greatest? still to be confirmed!

MRbrownJAY: ^^^the important question you must ask yourself IS:"how long do you think Vettel would stay at RBR, knowing that nobody would ever believe he is "one of" the greatest of F1, until he wins the championship with another team?!"

his credibility as a great driver (after winning 3 Championship) is definitely not where it should be..... simply because he drives that RBR. yeah he is a good driver, won 3 wdc, yep.......one of the greatest? still to be confirmed!

He would stay at RBR till 2015 at least! Should he win this year and the next then if you like you can still question his greatness afterall some people would still tell you Jordan was not the greatest and neither was Schumacher you can never satisfy everybody

Of course his credibility is always going to be questioned by Alonso fanboys like you and Hamilton fanboys as well. Prost,Senna,Hill,Schumacher,Alonso,Button,Hamilton,Hakkinen I don't remember any of these guys winning Championships without the top 2 or 3 cars on the grid

MRbrownJAY: ^^^the important question you must ask yourself IS:"how long do you think Vettel would stay at RBR, knowing that nobody would ever believe he is "one of" the greatest of F1, until he wins the championship with another team?!"

his credibility as a great driver (after winning 3 Championship) is definitely not where it should be..... simply because he drives that RBR. yeah he is a good driver, won 3 wdc, yep.......one of the greatest? still to be confirmed!

Has Alonso won in another car, apart from the illegal one he drove under that crook called Flavio Briatore

baby-boy:


Has Alonso won in another car, apart from the illegal one he drove under that crook called Flavio Briatore

No mind am! Let him be using his points against himself

baby-boy:

Has Alonso won in another car, apart from the illegal one he drove under that crook called Flavio Briatore

he doesnt need to, the fact that he has been on top of the F1 game after shifting multiple teams, AND finished in the top 3 of the WDC so many time (5 times to be exact)....... is a confirmation that he is blessed with great skills.........while Vettel was unknown (as a great driver) before he stepped into a RBR car, same as his teammate who ALSO had never managed to finish above 10th in the WDC before RBR got their act together in 2009......and suddenly he is "driving better".......who are we kidding here?!
great drivers have a pattern that will always follow them, whether with great or shiiit team....... its called greatness!!!!
look at Webber's record for the 2yrs at RBR before they got the better much improved RB5 car.

now compare that with Alonso, who drove for 3 different teams and finished a grand total of EIGHT TIMES in the top 5 of the WDC, in the last 10yrs...... this is not luck of driving a good car, this is SKILLS!

Vettel need to prove to the world that he's got it, NOT that the car he is driving is the best out there......and the only way he will be credible to the world is when he wins the WDC with another team. FACT!!!

MRbrownJAY: ^^^the important question you must ask yourself IS:"how long do you think Vettel would stay at RBR, knowing that nobody would ever believe he is "one of" the greatest of F1, until he wins the championship with another team?!"

his credibility as a great driver (after winning 3 Championship) is definitely not where it should be..... simply because he drives that RBR. yeah he is a good driver, won 3 wdc, yep.......one of the greatest? still to be confirmed!

Are you saying he must change teams ti be regarded as the greatest

^^^^as i know you guys have difficulties in confirming what I (MBJ) believe, dont take my words for it, and instead read what was written above by this highly respected F1 reporter.

There is also a suggestion that Vettel could go to Ferrari, potentially in a job swap with Alonso. He is likely to win his fourth straight title with Red Bull this year and, if he went to Maranello and won more championships there, it would confirm his reputation as one of the greatest drivers of them all.

what we (and hopefully you too) can easily comprehend by that statement is that he is NOT regarded as one of the greatest of them all out there "yet", even though he has won more championships than any driver out there at the moment.

here is another clue for you to understand what i am saying: AYRTON SENNA, who is considered THE greatest drivers that ever drove an F1 car, only won 3 WDC, with the same team, but his driving abilities were too obvious for all the world to see. Vettel on the other hand.........oh well! dont crucify the messenger bro!

MRbrownJAY:
he doesnt need to, the fact that he has been on top of the F1 game after shifting multiple teams, AND finished in the top 3 of the WDC so many time (5 times to be exact)....... is a confirmation that he is blessed with great skills.........while Vettel was unknown (as a great driver) before he stepped into a RBR car, same as his teammate who ALSO had never managed to finish above 10th in the WDC before RBR got their act together in 2009......and suddenly he is "driving better".......who are we kidding here?!
great drivers have a pattern that will always follow them, whether with great or shiiit team....... its called greatness!!!!
look at Webber's record for the 2yrs at RBR before they got the better much improved RB5 car.

Loooool this guy is a comedian! Alonso's 2nd championship was won with a dodgy car. Simply put he has built his legacy on a fraud! This explains why 7 years on he has been able to add to the dubious championships he won earlier. Every other year he has been with a competitive car! The year he got an average car he finished 9th!!! Bwahahahaha Alonso is the most overrated driver in the history of F1 and only thrives where he has veto power which is why he ran from McLaren when he discovered he couldn't have his way

As for Webber I won't come here to tell you he is a world beater because he is not but if you can tell me the year he had a decent car before joining Red Bull I would take you seriously

As for Vettel he already prove himself before joining RBR by winning a race in a Toro Rosso at only 21

MRbrownJAY:
now compare that with Alonso, who drove for 3 different teams and finished a grand total of EIGHT TIMES in the top 5 of the WDC, in the last 10yrs...... this is not luck of driving a good car, this is SKILLS!

Vettel need to prove to the world that he's got it, NOT that the car he is driving is the best out there......and the only way he will be credible to the world is when he wins the WDC with another team. FACT!!!

3 different teams with the top 2 or 3 fastest cars on the grid! This is hardly as big a deal as you are making it

Vettel doesn't need to prove jack! As the youngest triple World Champ ever he is in the record books already! Sorry this is not what you or any other bad belle analyst can refute! Men lie and women lie but the numbers don't

Of the 3 years Vettel won only on one occasion (2011) can anyone seriously say the Red Bull was undeniably the fastest car on the grid. Add any other year to it and you are only providing Alonso with excuses

^^^^ bro A40
if anyone won with a dubious car, and it has been CONFIRMED then that driver/team would definitely be severely punished......if no one has been punished then whatever you are writing is just out of thin air and/or out of your mind.
this kind of conspiracy theory doesnt deserve an answer.

in any given season, there is 2-3 top F1 teams with 2 different drivers. now, if someone drives for 3 different teams, and stays on top of the F1 game throughout the whole period, then that driver should be considered "special" to say the least.

any of you AHA will have a hard time to believe that but thats a damn fact....

again, just look at what the above reporter wrote to understand my point about vettel's whole "greatness" lying on the RBR car.

MRbrownJAY: ^^^^as i know you guys have difficulties in confirming what I (MBJ) believe, dont take my words for it, and instead read what was written above by this highly respected F1 reporter.

There is also a suggestion that Vettel could go to Ferrari, potentially in a job swap with Alonso. He is likely to win his fourth straight title with Red Bull this year and, if he went to Maranello and won more championships there, it would confirm his reputation as one of the greatest drivers of them all.

This is clearly an Alonso fanboy. Why must he go to the team Alonso drove for to prove his greatness? This is premium nonsense! And I really don't care who said it or is he trying to tell us titles at Ferrari hold more weight than at other constructors? Even if Vettel crosses over and wins there the excuse would be that Ferrari is a better team and blah blah! "They upgraded their car for Vettel"

MRbrownJAY:
what we (and hopefully you too) can easily comprehend by that statement is that he is NOT regarded as one of the greatest of them all out there "yet", even though he has won more championships than any driver out there at the moment.

Any F1 pundit that does not have Vettel in his top 6 or 7 of all-time already cannot and should not even be taken seriously

MRbrownJAY:

here is another clue for you to understand what i am saying: AYRTON SENNA, who is considered THE greatest drivers that ever drove an F1 car, only won 3 WDC, with the same team, but his driving abilities were too obvious for all the world to see. Vettel on the other hand.........oh well! dont crucify the messenger bro!

Good thing you mentioned Senna the similiarities in their dossier are evident: Super-quick over one lap, youngest multiple champion, 3 titles with the same team, unlimited aggression and desire to win
I respect Senna he was one of the greatest but not the Greatest! His sudden and tragic death played a huge part in his cult status. He won with the best machinery on the field! His team won 15 out of 16 races in his first championship season mind you he would not have been awarded that championship in today's F1 as Prost actually scored more points! Think about it! The McLaren won 15 in 16 races! It only means two things either:
A) The field is weak
Or
B) His car is way above and beyond the fastest on the grid

The seasons his McLaren started struggling he headed for the exit! Senna was no angel! had he not died in such a heartbreaking and tragic manner and retired with 3 championships there's not a chance in hell he would be rated as the greatest of all time in the sport. People are usually sentimental towards the dead in sport and most other endeavors! It has a way of propelling people beyond where they ordinarily should have been in the pantheon of greats

MRbrownJAY: ^^^^as i know you guys have difficulties in confirming what I (MBJ) believe, dont take my words for it, and instead read what was written above by this highly respected F1 reporter.

There is also a suggestion that Vettel could go to Ferrari, potentially in a job swap with Alonso. He is likely to win his fourth straight title with Red Bull this year and, if he went to Maranello and won more championships there, it would confirm his reputation as one of the greatest drivers of them all.

This is clearly an Alonso fanboy. Why must he go to the team Alonso drove for to prove his greatness? This is premium nonsense! And I really don't care who said it or is he trying to tell us titles at Ferrari hold more weight than at other constructors? Even if Vettel crosses over and wins there the excuse would be that Ferrari is a better team and blah blah! "They upgraded their car for Vettel"

MRbrownJAY:
what we (and hopefully you too) can easily comprehend by that statement is that he is NOT regarded as one of the greatest of them all out there "yet", even though he has won more championships than any driver out there at the moment.

Any F1 pundit that does not have Vettel in his top 6 or 7 of all-time already cannot and should not even be taken seriously

MRbrownJAY:

here is another clue for you to understand what i am saying: AYRTON SENNA, who is considered THE greatest drivers that ever drove an F1 car, only won 3 WDC, with the same team, but his driving abilities were too obvious for all the world to see. Vettel on the other hand.........oh well! dont crucify the messenger bro!

Good thing you mentioned Senna the similiarities in their dossier are evident: Super-quick over one lap, youngest multiple champion, 3 titles with the same team, unlimited aggression and desire to win
I respect Senna he was one of the greatest but not the Greatest! His sudden and tragic death played a huge part in his cult status. He won with the best machinery on the field! His team won 15 out of 16 races in his first championship season mind you he would not have been awarded that championship in today's F1 as Prost actually scored more points! Think about it! The McLaren won 15 in 16 races! It only means two things either:
A) The field is weak
Or
B) His car is way above and beyond the fastest on the grid

The seasons his McLaren started struggling he headed for the exit! Senna was no angel! had he not died in such a heartbreaking and tragic manner and retired with 3 championships there's not a chance in hell he would be rated as the greatest of all time in the sport. People are usually sentimental towards the dead in sport and most other endeavors! It has a way of propelling people beyond where they ordinarily should have been in the pantheon of greats

MRbrownJAY:
in any given season, there is 2-3 top F1 teams with 2 different drivers. now, if someone drives for 3 different teams, and stays on top of the F1 game throughout the whole period, then that driver should be considered "special" to say the least.
any of you AHA will have a hard time to believe that but thats a damn fact....

Stay on top? Calm down bruv he's only been champion twice! With one car! And that car was the best for 2 years straight! (When Giancarlo Fischella is finishing higher than Kimi Raikonnen on the standings you should know say water don pass garri) He is yet to be a factor in a car that is not among the top 2 or 3 on the grid! He's a snitch that throws his toys out of the pram when things don't go his way! He is overrated!

MRbrownJAY:
again, just look at what the above reporter wrote to understand my point about vettel's whole "greatness" lying on the RBR car.

An utterly nonsense line of argument! I can apply that line of argument to just about every driver that has won the championship in over 2 decades

MRbrownJAY:
here is another clue for you to understand what i am saying: AYRTON SENNA, who is considered THE greatest drivers that ever drove an F1 car, only won 3 WDC, with the same team, but his driving abilities were too obvious for all the world to see. Vettel on the other hand.........oh well! dont crucify the messenger bro!

People rate Senna for his Driving ability yes, 05 and 06 season won by Alonso in one of the fastest cars on the grid (alonside McLaren but they had reliability issues) not only that, Bernie and F1 wanted to halt Michael Schumacher's dominance! in 2005 the new tyre rules favoured everyone on Michelin and put everyone on Bridgestone at a disadvantage! then F1 asked Michelin to remodify their tires because of their compound were too thick and this brought Schummy back into the title race but it was too late! the mass damper at an illegal height... and all along Giancarlo Fisichella has to play the supporting game!

At McLaren, by the time they got to Canada Lewis was leading Alonso on points and decided (with his father) that they are going for the championship, Alonso wasnt happy in the end it all went sour!

At Ferrari he choked at the Business end of 2010 and 2012!!!

A part from the 2011 rocket that Vettel had, it has been a level playing field but, and Alonso and Ferrari played all the dirty tricks just to give him the advantage, some times you would ask the question why sack Kimi? why not give Massa the chance to race Alonso?

^^ as the chairman of AHA, i would understand why you think the way you do, lol

pls, do remind us all, did Senna won all these 15 races, or did his "teammate" won half of these races? oh, and while you are at it, was Prost not one of the best driver out there at that moment? that should be an indication for you as to why Vettel's credibility as the greatest drivers isnt anywhere near Senna or Schumi.

as for your claim that Prost had more points, thats RUBBISH! back in the days, this is how championship points were awarded. just because Senna benefited from it is irrelevant to how today's championship points are awarded. what you wrote is as dumb as saying that: (using old scoring system of 8-6-4-3-2 points awarded), Alonso would have been world champion in 2012 and not Vettel, and Massa would have been champion in 2008 and not the hamster, DUH!

as for claiming that Alonso's car was faster than the rest, let me educate once more:
in 2005, Renault won 8races, Mc Laren won 10races, Renault finished 1st and 5th respectively in the championship, while Mc Laren finished 2nd and 4th.....and you dare say that Renault car was better? NONSENSE!!!!

in 2006, Renault won 8 races, Ferrari won 9 races, Renault finished 1st and 4th respectively in the championship, while Ferrari finished 2nd and 3rd........and you have the audacity to say that the Renault car was better? NONSENSE!!!!

now compare that with RBR record:
in 2010, RBR won 9races, Ferrari 5races, Mc Laren 5races.
in 2011, RBR won 12 races, Ferrari 1 race, Mc Laren 6 races.
and yet you still trying to bury your hand in the sand as if you dont see the obvious pattern here, haba!

as for vettel going to Ferrari, that was only mentioned because of the alleged "swap", he could also go to Mc Laren, Lotus or Mercedes....and that would be just the same.

MRbrownJAY:

as for claiming that Alonso's car was faster than the rest, let me educate once more:
in 2005, Renault won 8races, Mc Laren won 10races, Renault finished 1st and 5th respectively in the championship, while Mc Laren finished 2nd and 4th.....and you dare say that Renault car was better? NONSENSE!!!!

in 2006, Renault won 8 races, Ferrari won 9 races, Renault finished 1st and 4th respectively in the championship, while Ferrari finished 2nd and 3rd........and you have the audacity to say that the Renault car was better? NONSENSE!!!!

.

Look in 2005 Kimi was on the Podium 12 times and only twice out of 12 times Kimi was on the podium that Alonso wasnt on the Podium next to him. But the 15 times Alonso was on the podium Kimi was present next to him 9 times

Now the R25 was the fastest car built that year, Ferrari used the F2004 for some races before they switched to the F2005 which wasnt fast enough. The Renault R25 is featured at this year’s Autosport International show as one of the great racing cars of the last six decades.

The R25 was the last of a breed – the final V10-engined machine to win the world championship, and the car which broke Ferrari’s six-year winning streak in the constructors’ world championship.

It was also the car which ended Renault’s search for a world championship, which had begun almost 30 years earlier when the company first arrived in F1 in 1977.

But what is it really one of the greatest F1 cars of all time? It may have been a championship-winner, but the R25 was not a a revolution in F1 car design which sent rival teams’ engineers into a panic.

Indeed over the course of 2005 McLaren won more races with their MP4-20 – ten to Renault’s eight – and but for a loose piece of kerbing at the Shanghai circuit the silver team might have taken the constructors’ championship.

Renault and tyre suppliers Michelin had mastered the new rules preventing tyre changes during the race, producing a car which could ‘switch on’ its tyres in qualifying for a hot lap but also keep them in good condition for a full race distance.

Like most Renault cars of the mid-2000s, the R25 was especially strong from a standing start. A combination of clever electronic and rearward weight bias meant Alonso and Fisichella could rely on gaining places at the start.

This was the car which ended the six-year Ferrari domination of the championship. In at least one respect the R25 mirrored those dominant Ferraris – its reliability was exceptional. Aside from Indianapolis, the car only failed to finish three times all year. The MP4-20 suffered five mechanical retirements and its drivers also had to contend with a series of grid penalties for engine failures.

Towards the end of the year a notable innovation appeared on the R25. At Interlagos the team fitted a mass damper fitted in the car’s nose to reduce pitching when the car went over bumps or kerbs.

Similar technology was already in use on other cars – the McLaren, for example, which had begun using an inerter (also known as a J-damper) at Imola earlier that year. The mass damper became a bone of contention later in 2006 when the device was abruptly banned by the FIA.

The 2005 season was certainly a golden period for Renault. The team simultaneously ran one double championship-winning car while developing another to significantly different technical rules. The R26 used a V8 engine and the requirement for tyres to last a full race distance was dropped – yet Renault retained both their titles in 2006.

But they’re not the only team to accomplish this feat in the last decade. Does the R25 deserves a place among genuinely game-changing cars like the Lotus 72 and Williams FW14B? Yes it does!!

Perhaps the R25′s place in this hall of fame owes more to what the organisers could get their hands on. It was a terrific car and a fine championship-winning machine, but perhaps one of an all-time great.

The Illegal car

Renault’s 2006 challenger, the R26, was designed with the system in mind from its conception. For 2006 the mass dampers would also be fitted to the rear of the car.

The dampers proved particularly beneficial on the Michelin-shod cars. Inevitably, other teams got wind of what Renault were doing and built their own copies. But none were able to find as much of a benefit from the system as Renault were.

At this point the politicking began. Renault made a strong start to 2006 and other teams questioned the legality of the dampers. The matter came before the stewards at the German Grand Prix who agreed that the system was legal.

Then, astonishingly, the FIA appealed against the stewards’ verdict. A date for a hearing was set following the next round in Hungary and Renault, wisely, opted not to run the mass dampers until further notice.

At the Hockenheimring their drivers struggled home fifth and sixth while Ferrari romped to a one-two.

On August 23rd the FIA International Court of Appeal ruled Renault’s mass dampers illegal. They cited article 3.15 of the Formula One Technical Regulations – claiming the system constituted a moveable aerodynamic device.

This was surprising. Clearly, the device was internal and so did not have a direct aerodynamic effect. Indeed, it was hard to see how it was a moveable aerodynamic device any more than conventional suspension was.

Renault’s ire was compounded by the fact that the banning came during the summer testing ban, inhibiting their ability to test alternative parts. At the following round in Istanbul Ferrari raced with new extended brake fairings in the rear wheel hubs, which seemed like a much more obvious example of a moveable aerodynamic device.

MRbrownJAY: ^^ as the chairman of AHA, i would understand why you think the way you do, lol

pls, do remind us all, did Senna won all these 15 races, or did his "teammate" won half of these races? oh, and while you are at it, was Prost not one of the best driver out there at that moment? that should be an indication for you as to why Vettel's credibility as the greatest drivers isnt anywhere near Senna or Schumi.

The McLaren won 15 out of 16 races! I never said Senna! Read! Of course Prost was one of the best but when one car wins 15 out of 16 this clearly isn't a matter of ability alone as Senna was yet to win that many races before jumping into that car. Senna was great but not the Greatest! Not in a million years

Vettel's credibility is only questioned by Alonso fanboys like you! The bias is pathetic

MRbrownJAY:
as for your claim that Prost had more points, thats RUBBISH! back in the days, this is how championship points were awarded. just because Senna benefited from it is irrelevant to how today's championship points are awarded. what you wrote is as dumb as saying that: (using old scoring system of 8-6-4-3-2 points awarded), Alonso would have been world champion in 2012 and not Vettel, and Massa would have been champion in 2008 and not the hamster, DUH!

Prost scored more points but only 11 races and best scores where counted! Comparing that pattern to today's championship borders on idiocy as today all races are counted! If it was not a faulty system they wouldn't change it

MRbrownJAY:
as for claiming that Alonso's car was faster than the rest, let me educate once more:
in 2005, Renault won 8races, Mc Laren won 10races, Renault finished 1st and 5th respectively in the championship, while Mc Laren finished 2nd and 4th.....and you dare say that Renault car was better? NONSENSE!!!!

You are the one chatting nonsense! Why not compare the second drivers of both cars? Who was better between Pablo Montoya and Fisichella? Do you think if Montoya was in that Renault they would have just 8 wins

MRbrownJAY:
in 2006, Renault won 8 races, Ferrari won 9 races, Renault finished 1st and 4th respectively in the championship, while Ferrari finished 2nd and 3rd........and you have the audacity to say that the Renault car was better? NONSENSE!!!!

Hehehehe you are joker! If Alonso had a competitive teammate Renault would have won more races its as simple as that! Are you kidding me? His running mate was Carlo Fisichella! A ninja that only won 3 races in how 13 years of racing! 2 of those 3 came in a Renault car the other win was based on technicalities. Coincidence? I think not!

MRbrownJAY:
now compare that with RBR record:
in 2010, RBR won 9races, Ferrari 5races, Mc Laren 5races.
in 2011, RBR won 12 races, Ferrari 1 race, Mc Laren 6 races.
and yet you still trying to bury your hand in the sand as if you dont see the obvious pattern here, haba!

This is so simple that even a caveman can understand it! For starters the Vettelmeister is involved and secondly at Red Bull drivers are actually allowed to race! There is competition and everyone doesn't just bow down to Vettel's wishes unlike Alonso who has teammates intentionally crash their car for him and have their gearboxes tampered with!
How can Ferrari manage more wins when "Fernando is faster than you can you confirm you understand this message" is drummed into the ears of Massa!

MRbrownJAY:
as for vettel going to Ferrari, that was only mentioned because of the alleged "swap", he could also go to Mc Laren, Lotus or Mercedes....and that would be just the same.

If Alonso comes to Red Bull he would still lose cos he is a bum at qualifying! He still wouldn't get pole so let's now see how he would make up positions with a car with inferior straight line speed to the Ferrari

Is anyone going to the Abu Dhabi grand prix here? It's on Nov 1-3 and i'm def interested.

I was driving and the thought came to my mind, Should belt it at top speed through that bend?

Loool where is MrBrownjay? You and the jazz from your Baba ijebu will fail again!

The Red Bulls struggled early but came back strongly in the second practice its hard to point out the fastest car on the grid at this point because at the first practice Alonso was dominant! perhaps aided by the weather tho