The other day, I was watching a BBC interview of gay catholic preist, and something he said caught my attention and has remained in my mind ever since.
Although What he said was not a new revelation, what made it so poignant was the passion with which he had said it.

The issue was the catholic churches attitude towards celibacy,gay priests and gay marriage.
When the BBC interviewer suggested that the two contending African cardinals, Arinze and the other Ghananian cardinal, were very conservative and that if either was elected pope, he might not be open to the type of liberal ideals that the church desperately needed in the modern century,
This catholic priests, whose name I cannot recall, quickly remarked, and I quote:

"Do not forget that we were the ones that indoctrinated the Africans in their current negative mindsets". " They are not in a position to define doctrine for us". "We indoctrinated them into their current mindsets".

It was a shock and a vindication at the same time.
The big question is : When will religious Africans admit to themselves that they had been negatively indoctrinated?

PAGAN 9JA:


no i clearly asked Tribe. Tribal Religion and Tribe is related. whether you live in Etsako or on the Moon, your blood, "Afemai" wont change.

If you say so!

Oooooooooogun o! Pagan9ja and striktlymi almost turned this topic into Greek myths debate and self-identity share zone. Most of it all, they've both being refeeding themselves erroneous accounts of what isn't it.

striktlymi:
Well pagan, I do understand the case for Olodumare and true to your words, I must say that I have experienced him but I can't say same for Zeus. Oludumare like you said is ascribed as the 'Creator God' but Zeus is ascribed the god of thunder and lightning. This should be equivalent to a Songo. Though he is known as the father of God's but he came to meet creator as he was given birth to.

Nobody is capable of experiencing Olodumare. I know what I am saying, I won't go deep into that. Olodumare can't be compared to any foreign deistic personality. None of you have studied IFA, even though I'm so sure not in a deeply analytical and intellectual sense. I know what I am talking about otherwise I won't have read so many errors passed off as genuine whereas it is what the both of you think it ought to be. I'm blaming none of you because I for one very much understand that your opinion was formed under the influence of the Christeo-Islamic scope applied. How can you say Olodumare is a creator God, it shows you like so many Yoruba Christian lots (who praise Oloduamare in the Christian churches under the false assumption that it's the same Jeovah) know nothing about the traditions especially the ancient ancestral cosmogony of your fore fathers, much less the role and real title of Olodumare. Like I said, I won't go into that on this particular topic but desist from comparing the incomparables in order to suit half baked knowledge.

striktlymi: Olodumare on the other hand is very different. He is the ultimate source of life which is a quality Zeus does not share. If we cannot attribute creation to Zeus then why place him at per with Olodumare?

My black brother, kindly stop this miseducation, the clergies in Yorubaland have done already and are still doing enough damages, a lot do come here to learn and not to get more confused. Olodumare isn't Zeus. Olodumare isn't YHWH, Olodumare isn't Jeovah, Olodumare isn't God of the Christians, Olodumare isn't Allah, Olodumare is...(not here)just watch out for <<RAPS<< coming one day.


@striktlymi
That's were you and so many who assume to know about the Yoruba mythology cosmogony fails. You know nothing at all when someone intellectually researched in Yoruba sciences are talking. To start with, Olodumare is not a he. No verses in Ifa states its sex, therfore No Babalawo knows the gender of Olodumare as stated in Ifa. A lot in our universities and academia always make the mistake of equating the Yoruba cosmogo-paganism with mythologies. Mythology is neither true nor false which is completely different from cosmogony or ancestral belief systems. The Irunmoles in the Yoruba pantheon are reflected within the Yoruba culture, society, practice, namings, philosophy and can be proved to have existed at a primordial time through what I call YAS. YAS is the only way certain Irunmoles can be proven to exist. And if one or two, perhaps three Irumoles are proved to exist or have existed through the observable application of YAS, therefore the rest of the Irunmoles exists which can also only mean that either the ancients Yorubas of Old have either been visited created by said advanced intelligent race called Irunmoles as according to IFA or have themselves perfectly conceptualized certain forces by the most advanced race of the homo-sapiens through YAS, what does that makes the Abrahamic deities ? Lies! Lies! And confusion. Any practicing babalawo or Ifa sholars shouldn't fall for the subtle trap of indirectly accepting that the Yoruba Olodumare is a He. It is as a result of heavy Christeo-Islamic influence in Yoruba Land.

ghostofsparta: Oooooooooogun o! Pagan9ja and striktlymi almost turned this topic into Greek myths debate and self-identity share zone.

Is this thread not meant for the God debate? And who says the Greeks do not have their own traditional beliefs about God?

ghostofsparta:
Most of it all, they've both being refeeding themselves erroneous accounts of what isn't it.

Your opinion! Your right!!

ghostofsparta:
Nobody is capable of experiencing Olodumare.

Do you have any idea what it means to experience something??

ghostofsparta:
I know what I am saying,

I doubt if you do!

ghostofsparta:
Olodumare can't be compared to any foreign deistic personality.

The above shows you have no idea what I and pagan were discussing about.

ghostofsparta:
None of you have studied IFA, even though I'm so sure not in a deeply analytical and intellectual sense. I know what I am talking about otherwise I won't have read so many errors passed off as genuine whereas it is what the both of you think it ought to be.

The discuss between I and pagan wasn't about the Ifa.

ghostofsparta:
I'm blaming none of you because I for one very much understand that your opinion was formed under the influence of the Christeo-Islamic scope applied.

WRONG!!!

ghostofsparta:
How can you say Olodumare is a creator God,

If you are not aware that Oludumare is the principal agent of creation in the Yoruba creation mythology then there is no need reading further!

striktlymi:

Is this thread not meant for the God debate? And who says the Greeks do not have their own traditional beliefs about God?

Yes this was about the God debate in terms of the existence of the English term 'God' which by default refers to the Abrahamic monotheistic deities of Yahweh and Allah, particularly their purported efficacy when called upon as claimed by their inspired and divinely revealed books until you and some began to steer the topic towards the distortion of another subject entirely which I not only specialize on but also felt the need to clarify.

striktlymi:
Do you have any idea what it means to experience something??

Yes I do, I believe I have experienced hallucination twice in my life so far. And please do note that offering of personal experiences as means to validate a claim remains subjective. However, numerous supernatural claims in IFA cosmogony, as of the Irunmoles and their capabilities can be objectively demonstrated thus proven unlike the Abrahmic God(s), angels and Satans which have never and can't be proven to have either existed or exist demand faiths for their supposed existence.

striktlymi:
The discuss between I and pagan wasn't about the Ifa.

But the both of you were unknowingly touching finger1ng elements that are exclusive ONLY to IFA.

striktlymi:
If you are not aware that Oludumare is the principal agent of creation in the Yoruba creation mythology then there is no need reading further!

You asking me what you actually need to ask yourself, to know whether you are indeed correct. I have point out certain errors to authors regarding Ifa's Eledumare/Olodumare which they corrected on the basis of cogent reasons and analysis which you are obviously ignorant of.

You obviously know nothing, Olodumare is roleless according to IFA. Six Irunmoles were tasked by Olodumare to create humanoid. I won't go into the details, you sound like you know but you know nothing. No further discussions.

PAGAN 9JA:


anywayz OP are you sure you are an atheist you seem to have strong Pagan inclinations and even think like 1. what is your tribe? If you are Yoruba, are you initiated into Ifa Orisha? if not, I can provide you with the contact of the Chief Babalawo of Lagos to be initiated/reconverted back to Ifa Orisha religion.

You know you and I are buddies, but I wish you erase most of your post on Shango, Jakuta and Olodumare.....you are so so wrong about them in many ways. Believe. And as regarding your question...I consider myself an A'theist instead of an Atheist. Don't ask me why or how, one day I will explain in an lengthy thesis.

Logicboy03 I can see yoooooou. Have you eaten them, you know who

ghostofsparta:
Yes this was about the God debate in terms of the existence of the English term 'God' which by default refers to the Abrahamic monotheistic deities of Yahweh and Allah, particularly their purported efficacy when called upon as claimed by their inspired and divinely revealed books until you and some began to steer the topic towards the distortion of another subject entirely which I not only specialize on but also felt the need to clarify.

If it is about the God debate then that settles it.

ghostofsparta:
Yes I do, I believe I have experienced hallucination twice in my life so far. And please do note that offering of personal experiences as means to validate a claim remains subjective. However, numerous supernatural claims in IFA cosmogony, as of the Irunmoles and their capabilities can be objectively demonstrated thus proven unlike the Abrahmic God(s), angels and Satans which have never and can't be proven to have either existed or exist demand faiths for their supposed existence.

Your hallucinations are yours and have nothing to do with anything. No one profered personal experiences as a means of validating any claim. You do need to read and understand a post before commenting though.

ghostofsparta:
But the both of you were unknowingly touching finger1ng elements that are exclusive ONLY to IFA.

You will definitely not understand!

ghostofsparta:
You asking me what you actually need to ask yourself, to know whether you are indeed correct. I have point out certain errors to authors regarding Ifa's Eledumare/Olodumare which they corrected on the basis of cogent reasons and analysis which you are obviously ignorant of.

You obviously know nothing, Olodumare is roleless according to IFA. Six Irunmoles were tasked by Olodumare to create humanoid. I won't go into the details, you sound like you know but you know nothing. No further discussions.

Empty!

plaetton: The other day, I was watching a BBC interview of gay catholic preist, and something he said caught my attention and has remained in my mind ever since.
Although What he said was not a new revelation, what made it so poignant was the passion with which he had said it.

The issue was the catholic churches attitude towards celibacy,gay priests and gay marriage.
When the BBC interviewer suggested that the two contending African cardinals, Arinze and the other Ghananian cardinal, were very conservative and that if either was elected pope, he might not be open to the type of liberal ideals that the church desperately needed in the modern century,
This catholic priests, whose name I cannot recall, quickly remarked, and I quote:

"Do not forget that we were the ones that indoctrinated the Africans in their current negative mindsets". " They are not in a position to define doctrine for us". "We indoctrinated them into their current mindsets".

It was a shock and a vindication at the same time.
The big question is : When will religious Africans admit to themselves that they had been negatively indoctrinated?

Che! U no try... abeg, what show? Give me something googleable. Our head house slaves need to see their masters have evolved. Just for giggles though, as it will have no effect on them.... non at all...

ghostofsparta: Oooooooooogun o! Pagan9ja and striktlymi almost turned this topic into Greek myths debate and self-identity share zone. Most of it all, they've both being refeeding themselves erroneous accounts of what isn't it.


Nobody is capable of experiencing Olodumare. I know what I am saying, I won't go deep into that. Olodumare can't be compared to any foreign deistic personality. None of you have studied IFA, even though I'm so sure not in a deeply analytical and intellectual sense. I know what I am talking about otherwise I won't have read so many errors passed off as genuine whereas it is what the both of you think it ought to be. I'm blaming none of you because I for one very much understand that your opinion was formed under the influence of the Christeo-Islamic scope applied. How can you say Olodumare is a creator God, it shows you like so many Yoruba Christian lots (who praise Oloduamare in the Christian churches under the false assumption that it's the same Jeovah) know nothing about the traditions especially the ancient ancestral cosmogony of your fore fathers, much less the role and real title of Olodumare. Like I said, I won't go into that on this particular topic but desist from comparing the incomparables in order to suit half baked knowledge.

My friend, you are mistaken here. you assume that I dont know anything about Olodumare and yet you know more about my own religion than me, that too you being an atheist and not an initiate into Ifa Orisha. Let us first separate abrahamic monotheism from Traditional Paganism.

I have studied Traditional Paganism too long and hard and I can say with total honesty and sincerity that none here in this forum knows about and has experience Paganism as much as I have since my conception. I was born into a Pagan family and I have no outside/external influences.

The Concept of SPiritual Forces is more or less the same across all Pagan Religions. Olodumare IS Saarkin Aljan IS Chukwu IS Brahma IS Allah (the preislamic one. not the distorted plagiarized one worshipped today), etc.

THe reason why you are prejudiced against the conept of God is because since childhood, due to christo-islamo propaganda, you have been brainwashed into the foreign wrong abrahamic concept of Higher SPiritual Forces. your concept of what a God is, remains that of the abrahamist and therefore you hate this God . the abrahamists ironicaly have succeeded in making you hate God.

Olodumare is seen by Yoruba Traditionalists as a Creator Force and that is what Olodumare is. THe Origin Force present in everything. That is FInal.

My black brother, kindly stop this miseducation, the clergies in Yorubaland have done already and are still doing enough damages, a lot do come here to learn and not to get more confused. Olodumare isn't Zeus. Olodumare isn't YHWH, Olodumare isn't Jeovah, Olodumare isn't God of the Christians, Olodumare isn't Allah, Olodumare is...(not here)just watch out for <<RAPS<< coming one day.

Please friend, if you are Tribal, stop this racism and referring to others by skin colour. it is wrong. we are free-born tribesmen, not slaves. we oming from different and varied bloodlines and genetic groups. refer to us by our identity.

@striktlymi
That's were you and so many who assume to know about the Yoruba mythology cosmogony fails. You know nothing at all when someone intellectually researched in Yoruba sciences are talking. To start with, Olodumare is not a he. No verses in Ifa states its sex, therfore No Babalawo knows the gender of Olodumare as stated in Ifa. A lot in our universities and academia always make the mistake of equating the Yoruba cosmogo-paganism with mythologies. Mythology is neither true nor false which is completely different from cosmogony or ancestral belief systems. The Irunmoles in the Yoruba pantheon are reflected within the Yoruba culture, society, practice, namings, philosophy and can be proved to have existed at a primordial time through what I call YAS. YAS is the only way certain Irunmoles can be proven to exist. And if one or two, perhaps three Irumoles are proved to exist or have existed through the observable application of YAS, therefore the rest of the Irunmoles exists which can also only mean that either the ancients Yorubas of Old have either been visited created by said advanced intelligent race called Irunmoles as according to IFA or have themselves perfectly conceptualized certain forces by the most advanced race of the homo-sapiens through YAS, what does that makes the Abrahamic deities ? Lies! Lies! And confusion. Any practicing babalawo or Ifa sholars shouldn't fall for the subtle trap of indirectly accepting that the Yoruba Olodumare is a He. It is as a result of heavy Christeo-Islamic influence in Yoruba Land.

WELL SAID! I agree to all of the above cent per-cent!

Infact i too tell other people to refrain from calling a God as HE, because unlike abrahamists, we are not man-worshippers and our Gods are Spiritual Forces, devoid of human limitations and characteristics.
Our Pagan religions never call the Gods as gender-biased.

ghostofsparta:

You know you and I are buddies, but I wish you erase most of your post on Shango, Jakuta and Olodumare.....you are so so wrong about them in many ways. Believe. And as regarding your question...I consider myself an A'theist instead of an Atheist. Don't ask me why or how, one day I will explain in an lengthy thesis.

I am sorry i cannot erase those words unless you prove them wrong. I have researched a lot into Pagan religions , to go back onto those words. I am a PAGAN first and foremost , not an atheist. please dont confuse between the two. I hold atheists in good regard, but we still remain different. By trying to associate Pagan religions with atheism, you do no different from the abrahamists who try to plagarize our beliefs , twist it and/or inculcate it into their beliefs in order to assimilate and destroy us. I hope you atheists who are reasonable people , dont go into that extremes too.

You are either Pagan and with us, or Not.

Yet all in all, I hope we remain friends inspite.

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