udatso:
Are u a muslim? If no, hw did u become such a scholar in islam that u evn knw d occasions wen certain verses in it where revealed..in islam dats called tafseer of d quran that most average muslims dnt knw of except the scholars...u are indeed amazing.....ahhahahaha..u evn analyse the quran...well, may Allah guide u 2 d truth

udatso:
You are quotn the quran out of context...this was a revealed when som muslims dnt want 2 attend d war they av bn ordered 2 go...
It is important that we study the religious
texts in their proper context. When these
texts are not read in their proper textual and
historical contexts they are manipulated and
distorted. It is true that some Muslims
manipulate these verses for their own goals.
But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is
also true with the texts of other religions. I
can quote dozens of verses from the Bible
which seem very violent, if taken out from
their historical context. These Biblical texts
have been used by many violent Jewish and
Christian groups. Crusaders used them
against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them
against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians
used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists
are using them regularly against
Palestinians.
Let me mention just a few verses from the
Old Testament and New Testament and tell
me what do you say about them:
“When the LORD your God brings you
into the land where you are entering to
possess it, and clears away many
nations before you, the Hittites and the
Girgashites and the Amorites and the
Canaanites and the Perizzites and the
Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations
greater and stronger than you. And
when the LORD your God delivers them
before you and you defeat them, then
you shall utterly destroy them. You shall
make no covenant with them and show
no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)
“When you approach a city to fight
against it, you shall offer it terms of
peace. If it agrees to make peace with
you and opens to you, then all the
people who are found in it shall become
your forced labor and shall serve you.
However, if it does not make peace with
you, but makes war against you, then
you shall besiege it. When the LORD
your God gives it into your hand, you
shall strike all the men in it with the
edge of the sword. Only the women and
the children and the animals and all that
is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take
as booty for yourself; and you shall use
the spoil of your enemies which the
LORD your God has given you… Only in
the cities of these peoples that the
LORD your God is giving you as an
inheritance, you shall not leave alive
anything that breathes (Deutronomy
20:10-17)
Now therefore, kill every male among
the little ones, and kill every woman
who has known man intimately. But all
the girls who have not known man
intimately, sparefor yourselves.
(Numbers 31:17-18)
Even in the New Testament we read the
following statement attributed to Jesus
saying to his disciples:
“I tell you that to everyone who has,
more shall be given, but from the one
who does not have, even what he does
have shall be taken away. But these
enemies of mine, who did not want me
to reign over them, bring them here and
slay them in my presence. (Luke
19:26-27)

just_thinking: then sir am sure you av not heared of any christian that av burned down mosque just because of some issue. are u now saying this ppl are not christians. and truly islam consistently attract ppl that are willing to kill nd destroy because islam hate oppressor. but the question u shuld av asked is islam teaches on violence. but what i want you to know is that ppl tend to turn the word in the quran for dare personal use and dat is where the problem is comming from. check this link for more information if u truly want to learn http://islamicwritings.org/quran/peace/does-the-quran-teach-violence/

a4.hafoe:
tell nah, y wud u want to tear holy book of other religion? U incuring God waran if u tear His book becoz d book shud b treated wit respect k! U dnt av a point, a muslim wil nt tear others book,guy,moreso itz God book and itz nt ordinary u dnt av to treat it like any book.

alexis:

You need to show us those scriptures that teach peace mate.

udatso:
Wil u b ok, if I gv u quranic verses showing hw islam is a religion of peace?

alexis:

Again, stop bringing Christians into this. Christians are not involved in these killings in anyway. If they are hypocrites like you say; you need to tell us why are they confused or pretending. If they are hypocrites then:

1. Al Qaeda
2. Al Qaeda in Mali
3. Boko Haram
4. Osama Bin Laden
5. Taliban

And a host of other "Islamic" terrorist groups are ALL HYPOCRITES. We wonder how all these "muslims" are hypocrites!!!!

The crux of the matter is the interpretation of the Quran by you (a liberal muslim) and the "hypocrites" (conservative and extreme muslims). Not-with-standing, the common deliminator is the Quran and it teachings. We think it is such teachings that are confusing the so called "hypocrites" as you call them.

alexis:

But some muslims will kill if their holy book is touched by a non-muslim. A typical case happened in Gombe state. If you want links we will provide it. Your religion teaches tolerance but you lack it in application. It becomes touchy when the intolerance some muslims display affects the lives of others.

alexis:


Stop this out of context nonsense; it's a cheap defense by Islamic apologists. Perhaps Boko Haram and Ansaru should have known a muslim shouldn't take those Surahs literally before they kill innocent people. In your defense of Islam and it killings, you are trying to justify the same in the Bible and confusing yourself in the process. Where have you read in the whole Bible or in history that Jesus Christ killed/murdered anybody? I CHALLENGE YOU TO PROVE IT. On the flip side - your prophet Mohammed was personally involved in the killings and ordering of killings of so many. Again, leave the Bible out of this. Na your muslim brothers dey kill innocent foreigners left and right.

a4.hafoe:
c u nw ,shay ol dose verse no dy bibble ni? Moreso,read d bibble did any prophet kil sum1? If yes d perxin he kiled is he innocent or not? Dnt b bias

a4.hafoe:
if u dnt undastnd dis pple aint putin into practise wot d quran teaches,dat makez dm hypocrate,d quran dose nt teach violence guy..

a4.hafoe:
am glad u knw islam teaches tolerance,d pple involve in dz crime aint doing according to d quran teachings.peace be with you

a4.hafoe:
am glad u knw islam teaches tolerance,d pple involve in dz crime aint doing according to d quran teachings.peace be with you

alexis:

You religion teaches tolerance is a statement by you. If it is indeed what the Quran teaches, why is it so hard for muslims to understand it? For example:

Surah 2:256 == Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

This verse says there should be no compulsion in religion. You should go to northern Nigeria and the middle east and tell them to stop killing Christians. If Northern Nigeria is too far, there your brothers in Ibadan to stop burning churches and killing Christians. If there is no compulsion in religion, then allow Christians to worship freely and go about their normal business. There should be no zacat or forcing down Sharia down other people necks.

Yet, look at these other verses:

Surah 4:74,75 == "Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of God whether he is slain or gets victory, soon shall we give him a reward of great (value). Those who believe fight in the cause of God and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil, so fight ye against the friends of Satan, feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."

Surah 5:54 == "O ye who believe. Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."

The last two Surahs I quoted gives your brothers like Boko Haram justification to kill and murder innocent people. If the author of the Quran meant this was to be applied to pre-Islamic era only; he should have made it clear. So, this is not a context issue - it is a teaching in your Quran. This is not an issue of hypo-crazy but clarity in your Quran.

alexis:

You quoted from the Bible alluding that Jesus encouraged violence - I challenged you to prove he personally engaged in murder; the reason I did that was to disarm your argument that he encouraged violence - HE NEVER DID. Yes, Moses was a prophet and he struck an Egyptian dead (justifiable or not, he killed someone)- perhaps you should do your research. Leaving the bible, Mohammed was a prophet to Muslims and he personally was involved in 27 battles and I can't give you a count on the number of people he killed or he ordered killed (So he taught violence and his actions also showed it). The issue here is the teaching of your holy writ and how groups like Ansaru and Boko Haram is using it to kill and murder innocent people. Again, it is the teaching in your Quran that is confusing "muslims" like BH and Ansaru.

The point that I like to make is quite simple. Muslims who commit acts of violence and terror in the name of God, can find ample justification for their actions, based on the teachings of the Qur'an and the sayings and examples from prophet Muhammad himself! PERIOD!. You can't deny that.

I will not hesitate to say that the vast majority of the Muslim world (including yourself) condemn acts of terror and violence. There are many schools of thought in Islam with various and often conflicting interpretations of the Qur'an. However, the important distinction that I am making is this: the minority groups in Islam who resort to violence, are not an aberration to Islam, but in fact can legitimately claim to be working within the basic parameters of Islamic Jihad.

There are dozens of verses running through your Quran that encourages violence and I will be very happy to debate them with you. Contrary to your statements that groups like Boko Haram and Ansaru are hypocrites - I think they Quran justifies their action and that is the root cause of the problem.

a4.hafoe:
man am a muslim and i believed in al d prophets including prophet yisa(jesus),non of d God sent prophet engaged in promotin violent,prophet muhammed left his hometown becoz of dz paganz ,he went to medina an stil dy hunt 4 hm...d way e engaged in was 4 slf defence,dz paganz cm frm anoda region to hunt muslim in medina,u claim to mak research,buh i wil confam ur research are noid and void coz u add sentiment in dm coz u a christain.EVEN when d muslim was d head of the medina state where xtainz resided in,wen a muslim killed an xtain he was ordered to b killed as well,and dat justice k! Muslims are nt in surpport of dz boko and wat av u,come to tink of it,dose jtf dat kill dz terrorist u wnt to tel me dy are ol xtainz? Dy are muslimz dre also,and if islam and d prophet truly surport violence y wud a muslim jtf wont to kill boko haram,ur angle of tinking is truly bias.

alexis:

With all your talk, you have no Surah or Hadith to back it up? Ignorance they say is bliss. Maybe you need to read my posts again - I said this: Muslims who commit acts of violence and terror in the name of God, can find ample justification for their actions, based on the teachings of the Qur'an and the sayings and examples from prophet Muhammad himself!. Your prophet fought defensive and OFFENSIVE wars.

Let me give you an example,

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

The word "fight" is a verb, it is not defensive; it is offensive. If your Quran wanted them to defend themselves, it would have made that clear.

Here is another Surah for you again:

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Later, you will open your mouth and say your prophet was defending himself.

alexis:

With all your talk, you have no Surah or Hadith to back it up? Ignorance they say is bliss. Maybe you need to read my posts again - I said this: Muslims who commit acts of violence and terror in the name of God, can find ample justification for their actions, based on the teachings of the Qur'an and the sayings and examples from prophet Muhammad himself!. Your prophet fought defensive and OFFENSIVE wars.

Let me give you an example,

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

The word "fight" is a verb, it is not defensive; it is offensive. If your Quran wanted them to defend themselves, it would have made that clear.

Here is another Surah for you again:

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Later, you will open your mouth and say your prophet was defending himself.

just2endowed:
are you a scholar?

alexis:

With all your talk, you have no Surah or Hadith to back it up? Ignorance they say is bliss. Maybe you need to read my posts again - I said this: Muslims who commit acts of violence and terror in the name of God, can find ample justification for their actions, based on the teachings of the Qur'an and the sayings and examples from prophet Muhammad himself!. Your prophet fought defensive and OFFENSIVE wars.

Let me give you an example,

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

The word "fight" is a verb, it is not defensive; it is offensive. If your Quran wanted them to defend themselves, it would have made that clear.

Here is another Surah for you again:

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Later, you will open your mouth and say your prophet was defending himself.

a4.hafoe:
guy u really derailed in d historical context of those verses, let me nw mak u undastnd....
Wen d muslims went to medina,d medina pple made d prophet dre ruler,and he practised fair play dre,the non-muslim were given ther ryt and wre even restricted frm going to war d unbilieverz Fought against muslim.wen it cms to jizyah which means tax,d non-muslim decided nt to pay and dz which is dre civic responsibility.jizyah is a tax levied from the people of the scriptures(jews n xtains) who are unda d protection of a muslim government..

alexis:

Your talk is still empty. I quoted from the Quran to back up my claim, so far you still lack any evidence to back up your statements. I have Hadiths to prove this based upon the actions of prophet Mohammed and will be happy to engage you if you can only do the same. Get some evidence and then you can PROVE your point.

alexis:

You religion teaches tolerance is a statement by you. If it is indeed what the Quran teaches, why is it so hard for muslims to understand it? For example:

Surah 2:256 == Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

This verse says there should be no compulsion in religion. You should go to northern Nigeria and the middle east and tell them to stop killing Christians. If Northern Nigeria is too far, there your brothers in Ibadan to stop burning churches and killing Christians. If there is no compulsion in religion, then allow Christians to worship freely and go about their normal business. There should be no zacat or forcing down Sharia down other people necks.

Yet, look at these other verses:

Surah 4:74,75 == "Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of God whether he is slain or gets victory, soon shall we give him a reward of great (value). Those who believe fight in the cause of God and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil, so fight ye against the friends of Satan, feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."

Surah 5:54 == "O ye who believe. Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."

The last two Surahs I quoted gives your brothers like Boko Haram justification to kill and murder innocent people. If the author of the Quran meant this was to be applied to pre-Islamic era only; he should have made it clear. So, this is not a context issue - it is a teaching in your Quran. This is not an issue of hypo-crazy but clarity in your Quran.

just_thinking: all my life i av bin able to deduce that there are two main type of ppl who ask question 1. the ppl who ask question and make decisions base on answer given and 2. the ppl who av already decided before asking question just to prove a point. but it is quite unfortunate that majority of ppl in dis thread falls to the second category. because if after all the evidence you av b given, u still believe that islam accept unecessary and unacceptable violence like what dis boko and jambs are doing, den i guess it is ur human right to blieve what u want. and truly majority of ppl who are critisizing islam know the truth but dey are using dis boko, jambs saga as an oppurtunity to abuse islam. well i pray that by the time we all realize the effect our belief and action is having, i hope nigeria still exist. because those who plan to distabilize nigeria av implemented dare evil plan and as far i am concern it is working perfectly thanks to my fellow nigerians who av decided not to see past the black smoke. a large number of ppl av bin killed by this evil doers in the north both muslims and christian(majority of christians), and here we are pointing fingers at each other instead of us to be united. and our government busy thinking about how to get themself re-elected in 2015. one tin i know is that islam will not be wipe out as a religion in nigeria niether is christianity. so i actaully dont tink any gud tin will come out from us insulting each other for the matter of fact it is quite the oppsite. because you might compose ur comment and paste it. no one might reply it or even like it but do u av an idea about the number of ppl who read it. from what av seen, most comment av seen are comment that will increase the hatred between the two religion. the american av estblished a drone base in niger close to nigerian border. i guess we all know the after effect of such attack check iraq if u av no idea of what am saying. so the question is do we want to keep on fighting each other or do we want to stay united nd fight our common enemy?

a4.hafoe:
will i tink b4 u strt ur so-called research,u already choose wot to belive in.d prophet ruled in medina and gave evry1 dre ryt,go and research abt d first hijrah of muslims to Abysenia,it was an xtain ruler dat ruled dre,he was 1 of d prophet's best frnd,d prophet even wept wen he died,if truly d prophet and islam encourage violence y wud he wnt to do such?...anyway u av ur selective perception,retaintion and exposure...buh d truth stil stnd islam dose nt encourage violence leave it or take it.

alexis:

I like the fact that you are level-minded. What does Islam teach concerning killing of others especially non-muslims?