₦airaland Forum

I cannot think of anyone, ever, in the history of the world who deserves to be tortured forever. Only a purely evil, sick person would create such a thing as hell.

One man who lived down the street from me had a baby with his wife several years ago. His wife passed away soon after the birth of the child and he had to raise it on his own. At about the age of 2.5, the baby wandered out of the yard and was mauled by another neighbor's rottweiler. Before anyone could intervene, the baby had suffered serious injury and later died in the hospital. Somehow the dog disappeared and no one was able to find it.

Several years later there was a fire in the man's house. During the extinguishing of the fire, it was found that the missing dog was chained up in the man's basement. From all of the cuts, burns and broken limbs on the dog, it was obvious that the man had been beating and torturing it for years. It was also obvious that he had been feeding it to keep it alive. The dog was removed from his possession. Without the fire, there is no telling how long he would have kept this up. If the dog had been caught at the time of the original incident, it would have been put to sleep. The man, however, felt that it was better to capture and torture the dog.

OK. I just made this story up. The actions described above, however, are those of a pathetic, mentally ill person. In no civilized society would he be considered anything else. Even if a dog did this horrible thing, would it be sane and just to torture the dog for years? How about forever?

Pastor Olu T: Another scripture to consider, the word of the master Himself.

Mathew 18
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Does this then mean that people in heaven will be blind and crippled? Though you're yet to tell me why I should believe your hell over the one spoken about by Muslims or the ideas of life after death proposed by Hindus.

@ noprophecy

D greatest asset of man is his mind (intellect), and intersetingly its also his greatest woe. we think, reason n rationalize wanting 2 put all d facts 2gether in our little box called intellect, so when it does not fit in we discard it.

My friend all i 'll say 2 u is dat ur little mind can never comprehend d vastness of God, and dat d things of d spirit is foolishness 2 dem dat r perishing, if God says so dat it 'll be, what u think or feel dont change anything.

U still have d chance 2 b saved n escape Hell anyways. Accept Jesus as ur Lord n savior n b saved.

@ thehomer

Concerning cutting off d parts dat hinders u 4m life is just a figure, what He was actually saying is not allowing anything 2 lead u 2 Hell.

Also I am not telling u 2 believe my HELL version above others, i asked u b4 do u believe d bible, its d integrity of d bible at stake n not mine, i simply quoted d bible.

Pastor Olu T: @ noprophecy

D greatest asset of man is his mind (intellect), and intersetingly its also his greatest woe. we think, reason n rationalize wanting 2 put all d facts 2gether in our little box called intellect, so when it does not fit in we discard it.

My friend all i 'll say 2 u is dat ur little mind can never comprehend d vastness of God, and dat d things of d spirit is foolishness 2 dem dat r perishing, if God says so dat it 'll be, what u think or feel dont change anything.

U still have d chance 2 b saved n escape Hell anyways. Accept Jesus as ur Lord n savior n b saved.

Our intellect is our greatest woe? We cannot comprehend your god? Why are you even in this discussion? My reason for entering this thread is part of an attempt to make sense out of things. If the answer is always "god is awesome, he does whatever the hell he wants (it does not have to make sense), and you will never understand..." Why flex your little mind at all?

[quote
author=NoProphecy]Our intellect is our greatest woe? We cannot comprehend your god? Why
are you even in this discussion? My reason for entering this thread is
part of an attempt to make sense out of things. If the answer is always
"god is awesome, he does whatever the hell he wants (it does not have
to make sense), and you will never understand..." Why flex your little
mind at all?[/quote]Like i said, d things of d spirit is foolishness 2 dem dat perish, its not like who dont speak wisdom, we speak wisdom with dem dat r matured.

[quote
author=NoProphecy]Our intellect is our greatest woe? We cannot comprehend your god? Why
are you even in this discussion? My reason for entering this thread is
part of an attempt to make sense out of things. If the answer is always
"god is awesome, he does whatever the hell he wants (it does not have
to make sense), and you will never understand..." Why flex your little
mind at all?[/quote]I will definitely get back 2 u so we can REASON 2gether, bt its definitely going 2 b 4m d scripture, anything apart 4m dat i'm out.

Pastor Olu T: @ thehomer

Concerning cutting off d parts dat hinders u 4m life is just a figure, what He was actually saying is not allowing anything 2 lead u 2 Hell.

So that one is a figure of speech but not the notion of hell itself? Looks to me like it talks about blinding or maiming yourself to get to heaven.

Pastor Olu T: Also I am not telling u 2 believe my HELL version above others, i asked u b4 do u believe d bible, its d integrity of d bible at stake n not mine, i simply quoted d bible.

Well asking me to believe the Bible the way you do means that I should believe in your version of hell above others. Or do you believe the Qur'an or the Bhagavad Gita?

thehomer: So that one is a figure of speech but not the notion of hell itself? Looks to me like it talks about blinding or maiming yourself to get to heaven.



Even when we use figure of speech in our daily lives, we are definitely passing a message across and meant something particular, in this case the master was talking about a place of torment.

Well asking me to believe the Bible the way you do means that I should believe in your version of hell above others. Or do you believe the Qur'an or the Bhagavad Gita?

Like i said earlier you are not to believe my version of HEll, if you believe what i wrote you are only believing the bible because that is what i quoted. Not believing other versions of Hell,I think we should look at the validity of their so called sacred books, that will help a lot.

Jesus said strait is the gate and narrow is the way that leads unto life,only few there be that find it.

Pastor,God bless you abundatly.

A wise and obedient person would rather think of changing instead of assuming that hell does not exist.

The tomb of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob are still in Israel till today. So I wonder what the physically and spiritually blind archeologists were looking for?

Hell is real,do not fool yourself. The murderers ,the rapists ,fornicators,thieves ,haters of God,witches and wizards etc,shall not escape hell fire.

Pastor Olu T: [/color]

Like i said earlier you are not to believe my version of HEll, if you believe what i wrote you are only believing the bible because that is what i quoted. Not believing other versions of Hell,I think we should look at the validity of their so called sacred books, that will help a lot.

ok, nice... pls whats makes theirs invalid and urs valid or vice versa?

God is a God of love. He gave us His only child that whosoever believes him shall not perish in hell fire ,but shall escape it and have an everlasting life.

God has made a way of escape from hell fire for me and for you,only trust Him and obey Him. Do not harden your heart like the Egyptians idol worshippers who, out of ignorance and unbelief ,sacrificed the lives of all their male first born in one night.

Think,forsake your sin, and escape for your life.

HELL IS REAL , YOU ARE WARNED.DO NOT GO THERE B4 YOU BELIEVE.

[quote author=frank3.16]ok, nice... pls whats makes theirs invalid and urs valid or vice versa?[/quote]The person of Jesus Christ, the empty tomb and the bible which is the most valid and accurate of all.

Pastor Olu T: The person of Jesus Christ, the empty tomb and the bible which is the most valid and accurate of all.

i want to ask u a question... pls b honest in ur answer.

if u were born into Islam would you have seen the person of Jesus Christ and the bible as authentic? and would u consider God to be fair for punishing for holding tight what u were made to believe from childhood.

if on the last day God say to christian, "i cast you all into hell, you rejected islam and believed the false lie told by your pastors. Come to me my Islam children, ye have fought the good fight for me, you have killed for me, come to my bosom" will you think God is fair? Now this is what you expect him to do to other religions who do not believe in your theory.

Pastor Olu T: [/color]

Like i said earlier you are not to believe my version of HEll, if you believe what i wrote you are only believing the bible because that is what i quoted. Not believing other versions of Hell,I think we should look at the validity of their so called sacred books, that will help a lot.

The Bible contains your version of hell doesn't it? How about looking at the validity of the Bible? Won't that help?

enilove: God is a God of love. He gave us His only child that whosoever believes him shall not perish in hell fire ,but shall escape it and have an everlasting life.

God has made a way of escape from hell fire for me and for you,only trust Him and obey Him. Do not harden your heart like the Egyptians idol worshippers who, out of ignorance and unbelief ,sacrificed the lives of all their male first born in one night.

Think,forsake your sin, and escape for your life.

HELL IS REAL , YOU ARE WARNED.DO NOT GO THERE B4 YOU BELIEVE.

The underworld is real. So is reincarnation. You are warned. Do not go there or let it happen to you before you believe.

[quote author=frank3.16]i want to ask u a question... pls b honest in ur answer.

if u were born into Islam would you have seen the person of Jesus Christ and the bible as authentic? and would u consider God to be fair for punishing for holding tight what u were made to believe from childhood.

if on the last day God say to christian, "i cast you all into hell, you rejected islam and believed the false lie told by your pastors. Come to me my Islam children, ye have fought the good fight for me, you have killed for me, come to my bosom" will you think God is fair? Now this is what you expect him to do to other religions who do not believe in your theory.[/quote]See we do not get to know the truth when we die, when you come in contact with the truth then you know for sure for God definitely confirms His words.

You are right concerning the fact that if i am born a muslim, it would be difficult to accept the person of Jesus as taught by other religion, but one thing is certain that accepting the person of Jesus is not just a physical experience but a spiritual one. I am inquisitive, i will search for the truth and i will find it, the bible says if you find me with all your heart you will find me.

As many as will search for Jesus from other religion will find Him, this is not a theory it is what the word of God (bible) teaches.

thehomer: The Bible contains your version of hell doesn't it? How about looking at the validity of the Bible? Won't that help?

The bible is the most valid and accurate book ever written, it talks about the past present and future which all is unfolding just as stated, so if you have other views concerning the bible, share it.

Pastor Olu T: The bible is the most valid and accurate book ever written, it talks about the past present and future which all is unfolding just as stated, so if you have other views concerning the bible, share it.

dude the bible is no where near the most valid and accurate ever written. you have the liberty and freewill as a volitional creature to believe in anything you choose but please desist from thinking the bible is the most accurate book ever written.. And just so you know i am not an atheist.

Pastor Olu T: See we do not get to know the truth when we die, when you come in contact with the truth then you know for sure for God definitely confirms His words.

You are right concerning the fact that if i am born a muslim, it would be difficult to accept the person of Jesus as taught by other religion, but one thing is certain that accepting the person of Jesus is not just a physical experience but a spiritual one. I am inquisitive, i will search for the truth and i will find it, the bible says if you find me with all your heart you will find me.

As many as will search for Jesus from other religion will find Him, this is not a theory it is what the word of God (bible) teaches.

so why would i search for Jesus if i were born into Islam or Hindu? why should i think my religion is not the truth? and please explain how accepting Jesus is a spiritual experience (pls i want to learn), why are many in the church still commiting fornication, adultery, lying etc? if people in the church who claim to know Christ cant have this spirit why do u think persons from other religion will b interested? pls explain what u mean by spiritual xperience. if u have had it, then u should know it

[quote
author=frank3.16]so why would i search for Jesus if i were born into Islam or Hindu? why
should i think my religion is not the truth? and please explain how
accepting Jesus is a spiritual experience (pls i want to learn), why are
many in the church still commiting fornication, adultery, lying etc? if
people in the church who claim to know Christ cant have this spirit why
do u think persons from other religion will b interested? pls explain
what u mean by spiritual xperience. if u have had it, then u should know
it[/quote]This is getting more interesting, u are not an atheist, so what r u?

I'll b glad to share with u what i meant by spiritual experience bt cant do it now for i would need my laptop 4 dat, tommorow 'll be more like it.

Pastor Olu T: The bible is the most valid and accurate book ever written, it talks about the past present and future which all is unfolding just as stated, so if you have other views concerning the bible, share it.

My views are that it is not valid, it isn't accurate and it contains a lot of misinformation.

Pastor Olu T: This is getting more interesting, u are not an atheist, so what r u?

I'll b glad to share with u what i meant by spiritual experience bt cant do it now for i would need my laptop 4 dat, tommorow 'll be more like it.

ok, i will be waiting. i will say i am a christian, but like a lot of people i have been asking a lot of questions. and a lot of things are not right despite people saying they are filled with the holy spirit they just live the ordinary life and go through the same shit everyother pple go thru. perhaps u can explain to me better how u experience the holy spirit

I greet u all in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ, when i began to read dis thread i was begging God to have mercy on those of u saying hell doesn't exist, dats what d devil want u to think, d devil wants u to think that hell doesn't exist he even wants u to think that he doesn't exit so that you can go and comits all sorts of sin and at the end u will meet him and his demons in the fire, thats what the devil wants, my friends wether u like it or not hell is so real, ar u sure u want to gamble ur eternity on dis? Pls don't be a fool, invite Jesus into ur life to be ur lord and saviour before its to late, thank God for Pastor Tolu for this thread, Jesus is coming very soon. REPENT REPENT REPENT

thehomer: My views are that it is not valid, it isn't accurate and it contains a lot of misinformation.

I can not begin to outline all the fact that the bible is accurate, so me a favor, share some of the misinformation you think are there then we can take it from there.

[quote author=frank3.16]ok, i will be waiting. i will say i am a christian, but like a lot of people i have been asking a lot of questions. and a lot of things are not right despite people saying they are filled with the holy spirit they just live the ordinary life and go through the same shit everyother pple go thru. perhaps u can explain to me better how u experience the holy spirit[/quote]I am glad that you are a christian and you want to really know the God you serve, would get back to you later on please.

Pastor Olu T: I can not begin to outline all the fact that the bible is accurate, so me a favor, share some of the misinformation you think are there then we can take it from there.

Alright, here we go.

1. Plants created before the sun.
2. Two different creation stories.
3. No evidence of Jews in Egypt.
4. Balaam and the talking donkey.
5. Jonah and the big fish.
6. Jesus and his genealogy.
7. Jesus' disciples not dying until the rapture.

and many many more.

[quote author=frank3.16]ok, i will be waiting. i will say i am a christian, but like a lot of people i have been asking a lot of questions. and a lot of things are not right [/b]despite [b]people saying they are filled with the holy spirit they just live the ordinary life [/b]and go through the same shit everyother pple go thru. perhaps u can explain to me better how [b]u experience the holy spirit[/quote]Sorry for taking long before getting back to you, been so busy. I would try to answer your questions as i have highlighted the ones i feel i should answer.

You are a christian which is a very good news to me, as a christian what i think you should be most concerned with is your spiritual growth and how you can fulfill purpose on earth. You are to endeavor to grow in the faith by spending time in His presence to pray and study the scriptures, this is not to be done as a ritual or to get head knowledge of the scriptures but to fellowship with the father and develop a good relationship with Him. As you do this constantly you grow to become more like Christ and there will be a rub off of the father upon you, it also brings about the assurance of salvation.

You have been asking a lot of question which is a good thing, but friend i want to tell you that your question should be limited to the bible because anything outside of the scriptures is false and can be misleading. For instance take the creation of the world for example, there are other versions from other religion different from that of the bible, since you say you are a christian it will only help you if you remain with what is revealed. The bible says those things that are hidden belongs to the Lord and those things that are revealed belongs to us that we might do the deeds of the Lord Deuteronomy 29:29,the things that are revealed in the word are enough for us to live the life expected of us.

Now coming to the issue of the Holy Spirit which is one of my favorites, i will want to take the last two together which are while some claimed to be filled with the spirit yet live ordinary lives and how one can experience the Holy Spirit, i will do this by explaining the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer.

When you accept Jesus as your Lord and savior, the bible says the father, the son and the Holy Spirit takes up residence in you. Now when the son left the earth He sent the Holy Spirit as the comforter to the believer and remain with us till His second coming. But the first thing you have understand about the Holy Spirit is that we have the spirit within and the spirit upon a believer, we became Christians as a result of the Holy Spirit for the bible says if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ he is none of His.

The spirit within is the spirit inside of us and that is what makes us christian and everyone has it, but the spirit upon is the spirit that comes upon us for service which we sometimes call the baptism of the Holy spirit and not everyone has it. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not a one time thing which gives the reason why some people are sometimes filled and active and sometimes ordinary, the bible says we are to be constantly filled with the spirit and not be slothful in business. The spirit within us bears fruit that are Christ like as found in the book of Galatians 5:22-23, while the spirit comes upon us for service and gives the gift of the spirit, the fruit and the gift is produced by the same spirit and not that we have two Holy spirit. What we have is just the different manifestation of the one and same Holy Spirit.

You already have the Holy Spirit in your life as a result of you giving your life to Christ, but might need to be baptize by the Holy Spirit hereby the spirit coming upon you. To do this all you will have to do is just to seek Him and invite Him into your heart and He will come, but if you have problem doing that you can talk to a mature christian and they will lead in receiving. This is so simple and you dont have to work it out, just believe desire it and invite Him into your life and He is there upon you with the manifestation of speaking in tongues.

You can hold on to this for now, though i dont think i did justice to it because i typed this out of my very tight schedule and was just trying to summarize everything, but i will definitely still get back to you.

Stay blessed and remain rapturable

Alfamann: How much?

LWKMD!

Alfamann: How much will it cost me to accept your message.

Some churches, it is 10% of my income, some others it is just what you can afford, while in others it is what you want.

How much does yours charge?

which reminds me.
you know some churches have atms in them aka "giving kiosks"
https://www.pimppreacher.com/ATM_CHURCH_2.jpg

Pastor Olu T: Sorry for taking long before getting back to you, been so busy. I would try to answer your questions as i have highlighted the ones i feel i should answer.

You are a christian which is a very good news to me, as a christian what i think you should be most concerned with is your spiritual growth and how you can fulfill purpose on earth. You are to endeavor to grow in the faith by spending time in His presence to pray and study the scriptures, this is not to be done as a ritual or to get head knowledge of the scriptures but to fellowship with the father and develop a good relationship with Him. As you do this constantly you grow to become more like Christ and there will be a rub off of the father upon you, it also brings about the assurance of salvation.

You have been asking a lot of question which is a good thing, but friend i want to tell you that your question should be limited to the bible because anything outside of the scriptures is false and can be misleading. For instance take the creation of the world for example, there are other versions from other religion different from that of the bible, since you say you are a christian it will only help you if you remain with what is revealed. The bible says those things that are hidden belongs to the Lord and those things that are revealed belongs to us that we might do the deeds of the Lord Deuteronomy 29:29,the things that are revealed in the word are enough for us to live the life expected of us.

the highlighted part bothers me more. i dont want to believe that you are a selfish person because u are a christian. i, personally strive to be less selfish in m daily life and that is why is portion of ur quote attracts my attention. u are saying that as a christian i should i should remain with what is revealed. now what if i were a Muslim? or Hindu? if Christianity is the only true religion, why are some people born in different religion, socialized in it and grow seeing it as the true religion. u are talking of other versions of creation, dont you think that the one in the bible is one of the versions? the bible is the confirmed book from God because it says so, other books from different religions says they are the true book too. i am sorry but ur statement above confirms my confusion

Now coming to the issue of the Holy Spirit which is one of my favorites, i will want to take the last two together which are while some claimed to be filled with the spirit yet live ordinary lives and how one can experience the Holy Spirit, i will do this by explaining the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer.

When you accept Jesus as your Lord and savior, the bible says the father, the son and the Holy Spirit takes up residence in you. Now when the son left the earth He sent the Holy Spirit as the comforter to the believer and remain with us till His second coming. But the first thing you have understand about the Holy Spirit is that we have the spirit within and the spirit upon a believer, we became Christians as a result of the Holy Spirit for the bible says if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ he is none of His.

The spirit within is the spirit inside of us and that is what makes us christian and everyone has it, but the spirit upon is the spirit that comes upon us for service which we sometimes call the baptism of the Holy spirit and not everyone has it. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not a one time thing which gives the reason why some people are sometimes filled and active and sometimes ordinary, the bible says we are to be constantly filled with the spirit and not be slothful in business. The spirit within us bears fruit that are Christ like as found in the book of Galatians 5:22-23, while the spirit comes upon us for service and gives the gift of the spirit, the fruit and the gift is produced by the same spirit and not that we have two Holy spirit. What we have is just the different manifestation of the one and same Holy Spirit.

You already have the Holy Spirit in your life as a result of you giving your life to Christ, but might need to be baptize by the Holy Spirit hereby the spirit coming upon you. To do this all you will have to do is just to seek Him and invite Him into your heart and He will come, but if you have problem doing that you can talk to a mature christian and they will lead in receiving. This is so simple and you dont have to work it out, just believe desire it and invite Him into your life and He is there upon you with the manifestation of speaking in tongues.

You can hold on to this for now, though i dont think i did justice to it because i typed this out of my very tight schedule and was just trying to summarize everything, but i will definitely still get back to you.

Stay blessed and remain rapturable

i thought u were going to explain to me how the holy spirit has been operating in your life that makes u outstanding from any other person i have seen that does not have the holy spirit. how is the experience in your life and what is it about u having the holy spirit that makes u different from any other person that does not have it? all these biblical explanation is what is written, i want o know the experience of what is written. or don't u have the holy spirit?

@Pastor Olu T

Did you see my last response detailing the list of misinformation in the Bible?