Hi everyone. I've been reading this book 'mere christianity' by c.s lewis. If ever one is confused about the basics of Christianity then this book is one to read. I find it refreshing that it does not feed me peoples notions but tells it as it is. E.g thou shall not steal means thou shalt not steal. And why should one not steal? becos we love GOD and we do not wish to cause other people pain and distress. I read the bible and attend church but alas I find that I am at odds with the teaching.
I am at a stage in my life where I am confused about who I am in Christ and what type of worship GOD requires from me. I guess I crave for those days in my youth when preaching the gospel was more about love, compassion and all the fruit of the spirit. Maybe I am being too intellectual. I do not know.
If u've read or do get to read this book pls share with me your findings. Mind you, I do not wish that this post be used for abusive words, self justification or pastor bashing. Peace of GOD be with us all.

Hi, ogeelove. I think I understand where you are, but alas, I haven't read the book in question even though I have heard wonderful things about it. I, in fact, hope to read it at some point if I can find it. However, I may be able to help if you can point out specifically issues you want to address.

For now, I have this to say, that it is good that you are being intellectual. Our walk is indeed one of faith, but it is also one of study and questioning for we have been called to learn Christ not just to hear Him. We are called to understanding. And even though this understanding is the spiritual sort, it must be intelligible to us and those with whom we deal or else it is a waste, so it must affect our intellect also.

Well, here I am if I can serve you.

You are on a quest of discovering yourself. I am on the same quest too. So you are not left alone. God is love

Ok, I found the book to download online. Reading it now.

ogeelove: Hi everyone. I've been reading this book 'mere christianity' by c.s lewis. If ever one is confused about the basics of Christianity then this book is one to read. I find it refreshing that it does not feed me peoples notions but tells it as it is. E.g thou shall not steal means thou shalt not steal. And why should one not steal? becos we love GOD and we do not wish to cause other people pain and distress. I read the bible and attend church but alas I find that I am at odds with the teaching.
I am at a stage in my life where I am confused about who I am in Christ and what type of worship GOD requires from me. I guess I crave for those days in my youth when preaching the gospel was more about love, compassion and all the fruit of the spirit. Maybe I am being too intellectual. I do not know.
If u've read or do get to read this book pls share with me your findings. Mind you, I do not wish that this post be used for abusive words, self justification or pastor bashing. Peace of GOD be with us all.

I remember when I was confused. So many things made no sense, Christianity or religion I should say just has way too many contradictions. For a brain like mine that needs things to be in syntax nothing made sense to me. Thou shalt not steal you say, did you read further down to see the punishment for stealing was death?
Read all sides of the story then make up your mind. There is no love at all in the old testament.

Ihedinobi: Hi, ogeelove. I think I understand where you are, but alas, I haven't read the book in question even though I have heard wonderful things about it. I, in fact, hope to read it at some point if I can find it. However, I may be able to help if you can point out specifically issues you want to address.

For now, I have this to say, that it is good that you are being intellectual. Our walk is indeed one of faith, but it is also one of study and questioning for we have been called to learn Christ not just to hear Him. We are called to understanding. And even though this understanding is the spiritual sort, it must be intelligible to us and those with whom we deal or else it is a waste, so it must affect our intellect also.

Well, here I am if I can serve you.

In our bible study, we touched on reasons why john the baptist was killed. Reasons given were him not believing in christ, being jealous becos Jesus was becoming more popular than him and that he was expecting Jesus to save him. The bible states clearly that john spoke up against herod for taking his broda's wife and we all know what ensued afterwards. What I don't understand is, do we need to find other reasons other than what the bible says about his death? Surely john understood the consequences of speaking up against a higher authority here on earth and in those days. It is my belief that he was not afraid to die for speaking the truth. I am afraid to say I am terribly angered that we of this age who do not know what it is to live in perilous times, when speaking out of turn could result in the lose of one's life, who do not know what it means to live in the wilderness and wear camel's hair and eat locusts and wild honey would say that he was jealous of Christ and that was why he lost his head. This was a humble man. I feel that we have taken a sacred thing and defiled it. Surely if he was jealous it would have been mentioned in the bible. Yes it is that important. Many argue that jesus said 'blessed is he who is not offended in me'. But to whom was jesus referring to. And why did he give such accolade to john if indeed he was jealous.I mean why does the concept of dying for the truth seem so strange to us Christians. Did Jesus not say that 'Those who love their life in this world will lose it. Those who care nothing for their life in this world will keep it for eternity'. I am not a verse quoting person who knows the specific chapter and all that but I do read my bible. When I did try to point out all I laid out above to my study group I was literally panned for speaking jargons and not being led by the spirit. This and other issues just got me thinking. My church is wonderful in terms of love and all that but I am a bit worried about sound doctrine. Am I getting it all wrong? I don't know why but it bothers me. I have tried to reason it their way but it won't go away. I seem to think differently and no longer voice my opinion in our meetings. Help.

If you are looking for sound doctrine, explore the Catholic Church.

Read "C. S. Lewis and the Catholic Church"

He never quite became a Catholic but much of his theology was 'Catholic.'

“Next to the Blessed Sacrament itself, your neighbor is the holiest object presented to your senses.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

Why would he think that the Blessed Sacrament (which you protestants call wafer) is holier that human beings, since he's not Catholic and that belief 9that the Blessed Sacrament is Jesus - God himself)? Yet why did he not become Catholic since he believed that?

Dont fall short like he did...take the final leap!

ogeelove:


In our bible study, we touched on reasons why john the baptist was killed. Reasons given were him not believing in christ, being jealous becos Jesus was becoming more popular than him and that he was expecting Jesus to save him. The bible states clearly that john spoke up against herod for taking his broda's wife and we all know what ensued afterwards. What I don't understand is, do we need to find other reasons other than what the bible says about his death? Surely john understood the consequences of speaking up against a higher authority here on earth and in those days. It is my belief that he was not afraid to die for speaking the truth. I am afraid to say I am terribly angered that we of this age who do not know what it is to live in perilous times, when speaking out of turn could result in the lose of one's life, who do not know what it means to live in the wilderness and wear camel's hair and eat locusts and wild honey would say that he was jealous of Christ and that was why he lost his head. This was a humble man. I feel that we have taken a sacred thing and defiled it. Surely if he was jealous it would have been mentioned in the bible. Yes it is that important. Many argue that jesus said 'blessed is he who is not offended in me'. But to whom was jesus referring to. And why did he give such accolade to john if indeed he was jealous.I mean why does the concept of dying for the truth seem so strange to us Christians. Did Jesus not say that 'Those who love their life in this world will lose it. Those who care nothing for their life in this world will keep it for eternity'. I am not a verse quoting person who knows the specific chapter and all that but I do read my bible. When I did try to point out all I laid out above to my study group I was literally panned for speaking jargons and not being led by the spirit. This and other issues just got me thinking. My church is wonderful in terms of love and all that but I am a bit worried about sound doctrine. Am I getting it all wrong? I don't know why but it bothers me. I have tried to reason it their way but it won't go away. I seem to think differently and no longer voice my opinion in our meetings. Help.

No, you're not, sis. But first allow me to thank you specially for making it necessary for me to find this book. I'm currently at the fortieth page and it's doing quite a number on me. Thank you, sis.

Second, cease from holding in your opinion, my sister. That will do one of two things to you: disconnect you in spirit and eventually in the flesh from your brethren and breed bitterness OR make you into the same kind of person that your brethren are. You don't need either. I broke off from fellowship myself for a long time because I couldn't stomach so much of the failure and apparent disregard for the real meaning of the Gospel among believers I fellowhipped with. That leads you into a great deal of heartache and spiritual arrest. God may permit it as He did in my case but it is always in order to show us how much we need our brethren however weak and sinful they may be. And, in fact, our time away from them teaches us just how deficient we are as well. So, rather than play the nice, quiet lady, pick fights, they're your siblings, are they not? What kind of family is it where brothers and sisters muzzle themselves to avoid offending and being offended? The beauty of being family is the liberty of love, that love that allows you to call one another on your wrongs and still be best friends because it is not done to hurt. So, be willing to take the backlash and exhort your brethren. There's no other way to be family.

Having said this, believe me, I know that it's terrifying to speak your mind and give according to the understanding one has received among believers. But the alternative is far worse. I don't have many that I call friends, or rather, that call me friend probably although I would love to. It so happens that reminding people of the Right and their obligation to it does not endear you quickly to people, it's usually afterthe story's done, that the princess weds the ogre, in a manner of speaking. And I have tried the other tack, it really screws you all out of sync inside to not speak up and before you know it, you're turning into the thing you were rebelling against. And you unconsciously start blaming those you should have rescued for your corruption and bitterness sets in or else you lose conscience for the failure in question. So, you must speak up. You may win a few or you may win all, but you will have protected your brethren.

Have I helped?

ogeelove: . . . I read the bible and attend church but alas I find that I am at odds with the teaching.
I am at a stage in my life where I am confused about who I am in Christ and what type of worship GOD requires from me. I guess I crave for those days in my youth when preaching the gospel was more about love, compassion and all the fruit of the spirit. Maybe I am being too intellectual. I do not know.. . . .

ogeelove: . . . . I am afraid to say I am terribly angered that we of this age who do not know what it is to live in perilous times, when speaking out of turn could result in the lose of one's life, who do not know what it means to live in the wilderness and wear camel's hair and eat locusts and wild honey would say that he was jealous of Christ and that was why he lost his head. This was a humble man. I feel that we have taken a sacred thing and defiled it. Surely if he was jealous it would have been mentioned in the bible. Yes it is that important. Many argue that jesus said 'blessed is he who is not offended in me'. But to whom was jesus referring to. And why did he give such accolade to john if indeed he was jealous.I mean why does the concept of dying for the truth seem so strange to us Christians. Did Jesus not say that 'Those who love their life in this world will lose it. Those who care nothing for their life in this world will keep it for eternity'. I am not a verse quoting person who knows the specific chapter and all that but I do read my bible. When I did try to point out all I laid out above to my study group I was literally panned for speaking jargons and not being led by the spirit. This and other issues just got me thinking. My church is wonderful in terms of love and all that but I am a bit worried about sound doctrine. Am I getting it all wrong? I don't know why but it bothers me. I have tried to reason it their way but it won't go away. I seem to think differently and no longer voice my opinion in our meetings. Help.

The one key point I wish to make dear Sis: remain true to your self, your conscience and your truthful and considered understanding of Jesus' teachings. In this case, I believe you are right and the members of your fellowship are wrong.

The more difficult bit is how to handle real life relationships with the members of the fellowship; I agree with Ihedinobi; you should not keep quiet and/or suppress what you believe to be the truth simply because they disagree; you may do it gently and softly and with the goal of maintaining the loving and cordial relationship; but to not speak out is to damage yourself and not to help people who may be in (honest?) error.

If we are all honest, there are some things done by virtually each church that we are not comfortable with . . . . . . .

God bless.

Enigma:



The one key point I wish to make dear Sis: remain true to your self, your conscience and your truthful and considered understanding of Jesus' teachings. In this case, I believe you are right and the members of your fellowship are wrong.

The more difficult bit is how to handle real life relationships with the members of the fellowship; I agree with Ihedinobi; you should not keep quiet and/or suppress what you believe to be the truth simply because they disagree; you may do it gently and softly and with the goal of maintaining the loving and cordial relationship; but to not speak out is to damage yourself and not to help people who may be in (honest?) error.

If we are all honest, there are some things done by virtually each church that we are not comfortable with . . . . . . .

God bless.

Thank you for saying that part in bold, big bro. It was very much needed.

I should soon be sending you a new link when I have accomplished something I hope for.

Enigma:



The one key point I wish to make dear Sis: remain true to your self, your conscience and your truthful and considered understanding of Jesus' teachings. In this case, I believe you are right and the members of your fellowship are wrong.

The more difficult bit is how to handle real life relationships with the members of the fellowship; I agree with Ihedinobi; you should not keep quiet and/or suppress what you believe to be the truth simply because they disagree; you may do it gently and softly and with the goal of maintaining the loving and cordial relationship; but to not speak out is to damage yourself and not to help people who may be in (honest?) error.

If we are all honest, there are some things done by virtually each church that we are not comfortable with . . . . . . .

God bless.

Thank you for saying that part in bold, big bro. It was very much needed.

I should soon be sending you a new link when I have accomplished something I hope for.

italo: If you are looking for sound doctrine, explore the Catholic Church.

Read "C. S. Lewis and the Catholic Church"

He never quite became a Catholic but much of his theology was 'Catholic.'

“Next to the Blessed Sacrament itself, your neighbor is the holiest object presented to your senses.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

Why would he think that the Blessed Sacrament (which you protestants call wafer) is holier that human beings, since he's not Catholic and that belief 9that the Blessed Sacrament is Jesus - God himself)? Yet why did he not become Catholic since he believed that?

Dont fall short like he did...take the final leap!

Oga Italo this isn't about church 'advertisement', nor is it about C.S. Lewis himself per se - it's about learning the fundamentals and practicing them. If the OP can do that through the writings of C.S. Lewis, then so be it - keep your quest to increase your 'numbers' get in the way of someone strengthening their faith.

@Ihe bros

Actually, you are right about "picking fights" as well; you had expressed the point well that members of a family can "fight" and yet retain love for one another.

My referring to "gentle/softly" is just in terms of "appropriate tools for appropriate circumstances".

Sometimes what is needed and what works is "picking a fight"; at others it is "gently/softly".

I know you catch my drift . . . . .

Ihedinobi:

No, you're not, sis. But first allow me to thank you specially for making it necessary for me to find this book. I'm currently at the fortieth page and it's doing quite a number on me. Thank you, sis.

Second, cease from holding in your opinion, my sister. That will do one of two things to you: disconnect you in spirit and eventually in the flesh from your brethren and breed bitterness OR make you into the same kind of person that your brethren are. You don't need either. I broke off from fellowship myself for a long time because I couldn't stomach so much of the failure and apparent disregard for the real meaning of the Gospel among believers I fellowhipped with. That leads you into a great deal of heartache and spiritual arrest. God may permit it as He did in my case but it is always in order to show us how much we need our brethren however weak and sinful they may be. And, in fact, our time away from them teaches us just how deficient we are as well. So, rather than play the nice, quiet lady, pick fights, they're your siblings, are they not? What kind of family is it where brothers and sisters muzzle themselves to avoid offending and being offended? The beauty of being family is the liberty of love, that love that allows you to call one another on your wrongs and still be best friends because it is not done to hurt. So, be willing to take the backlash and exhort your brethren. There's no other way to be family.

Having said this, believe me, I know that it's terrifying to speak your mind and give according to the understanding one has received among believers. But the alternative is far worse. I don't have many that I call friends, or rather, that call me friend probably although I would love to. It so happens that reminding people of the Right and their obligation to it does not endear you quickly to people, it's usually afterthe story's done, that the princess weds the ogre, in a manner of speaking. And I have tried the other tack, it really screws you all out of sync inside to not speak up and before you know it, you're turning into the thing you were rebelling against. And you unconsciously start blaming those you should have rescued for your corruption and bitterness sets in or else you lose conscience for the failure in question. So, you must speak up. You may win a few or you may win all, but you will have protected your brethren.

Have I helped?

Wow. You've just blown me away. If u live in Nigeria then I am mighty impressed. I luv ma brethren. I will speak up but in luv. Thanks broda

Enigma: @Ihe bros

Actually, you are right about "picking fights" as well; you had expressed the point well that members of a family can "fight" and yet retain love for one another.

My referring to "gentle/softly" is just in terms of "appropriate tools for appropriate circumstances".

Sometimes what is needed and what works is "picking a fight"; at others it is "gently/softly".

I know you catch my drift . . . . .

I most certainly catch your drift, big bro. I needed the soft/gentle side to balance out what I said. That's what I'm grateful that you provided. For some reason, I was prevented from giving it myself. Thank you.

ogeelove:

Wow. You've just blown me away. If u live in Nigeria then I am mighty impressed. I luv ma brethren. I will speak up but in luv. Thanks broda

I'm grateful that I could help, sister dear. The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

Fantastic thread. Love the exchange.

@Enigma's bit on "gently & softly" - a very big amen! I do find myself biting my tongue more often than not at such meetings. If I'm passionate about the issue I will just stay silent cos if I begin to talk ehn... soffly soffly goes right out the window! lol. And also to be honest, I have kept silent on issues that may not follow the general church beliefs - because I didn't want to be 'fostering disunity' or 'creating rebels' contra to the church teachings. Its a tricky business. Knowing also that you yourself are not above error and could be wrong - all those things have to be balanced properly.

All in all God in His mercy will lead us into all things. Amen!

italo: If you are looking for sound doctrine, explore the Catholic Church.

Read "C. S. Lewis and the Catholic Church"

He never quite became a Catholic but much of his theology was 'Catholic.'

“Next to the Blessed Sacrament itself, your neighbor is the holiest object presented to your senses.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

Why would he think that the Blessed Sacrament (which you protestants call wafer) is holier that human beings, since he's not Catholic and that belief 9that the Blessed Sacrament is Jesus - God himself)? Yet why did he not become Catholic since he believed that?

Dont fall short like he did...take the final leap!

I played the catholic scene when I was young albeit not seriously. I have uncles who are reverend fathers and my mom is catholic. You asking me to explore the catholic route is like asking me to jump from frying pan to fire. I know catholics do not pray to Mary to grant their request but ask her to intercede for them. I just have an issue with that as our lord Jesus said I should ask for anything in his name and according to GOD's will and it will be given me. I am a christian, called to follow in Christ's way and must feed from every word that comes forth from his mouth. To wilfully disobey him is folly. I am at a level where I don't want to do it man's way. Thanks anyway and may GOD's peace be with us all.

JeSoul: Fantastic thread. Love the exchange.

@Enigma's bit on "gently & softly" - a very big amen! I do find myself biting my tongue more often than not at such meetings. If I'm passionate about the issue I will just stay silent cos if I begin to talk ehn... soffly soffly goes right out the window! lol. And also to be honest, I have kept silent on issues that may not follow the general church beliefs - because I didn't want to be 'fostering disunity' or 'creating rebels' contra to the church teachings. Its a tricky business. Knowing also that you yourself are not above error and could be wrong - all those things have to be balanced properly.

All in all God in His mercy will lead us into all things. Amen!

You hit the nail on the head. My voice raises up when I am agitated. And so when I am in these situations instead of talking coherently I just seem to blab out words in infuriation. The fruit of the spirit seems to fly out the window. So it is good to know that I am not the only one who has these feelings. So ma motto is 'quick to listen verrrrry slllooow to speak and even slower to anger'. I honestly am praying to GOD for these fruits. Ha ha. GOD help me.

ogeelove:

I played the catholic scene when I was young albeit not seriously. I have uncles who are reverend fathers and my mom is catholic. You asking me to explore the catholic route is like asking me to jump from frying pan to fire. I know catholics do not pray to Mary to grant their request but ask her to intercede for them. I just have an issue with that as our lord Jesus said I should ask for anything in his name and according to GOD's will and it will be given me. I am a christian, called to follow in Christ's way and must feed from every word that comes forth from his mouth. To wilfully disobey him is folly. I am at a level where I don't want to do it man's way. Thanks anyway and may GOD's peace be with us all.

It's okay. It is your opinion that exploring Catholicism is like "jumping from frying pan to fire."

It is also your opinion that asking anybody to intercede for you means "to willfully disobey Jesus."

Even though I do not agree, you do have a right to these opinions.

Good luck in your search for the TRUTH. But let me make a prophecy... Outside of Catholicism, your quest to find the fullness of truth will last your lifetime.

...IN MY OPINION.

debosky:

Oga Italo this isn't about church 'advertisement', nor is it about C.S. Lewis himself per se - it's about learning the fundamentals and practicing them. If the OP can do that through the writings of C.S. Lewis, then so be it - keep your quest to increase your 'numbers' get in the way of someone strengthening their faith.

What if I think the bolded means BECOMING CATHOLIC?!

Do I have a right to that opinion of mine? Or can I not express myself like others, simply because I'm Catholic?!

italo:

What if I think the bolded means BECOMING CATHOLIC?!

Do I have a right to that opinion of mine? Or can I not express myself like others, simply because I'm Catholic?!

If you think so, all well and good. I do not begrudge you the right to hold your opinion. My comment was simply to avoid this becoming a denominational discussion which distracts from the quest to simply (re)learn the basics of the faith.

italo:

It's okay. It is your opinion that exploring Catholicism is like "jumping from frying pan to fire."

It is also your opinion that asking anybody to intercede for you means "to willfully disobey Jesus."

Even though I do not agree, you do have a right to these opinions.

Good luck in your search for the TRUTH. But let me make a prophecy... Outside of Catholicism, your quest to find the fullness of truth will last your lifetime.

...IN MY OPINION.

I am sorry I made the statement 'jumping from frying pan to fire' that was insensitive. But haba my broda how can you prophesy that it will take me my lifetime to find the truth. The truth is in the bible. Jesus says 'and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free' and how and when will I know the truth? When I let his word abide in me and I abide in him. E.g I do not worry for what tomorrow brings becos he says for me not to worry about food and clothes becos GOD knows my needs. That is a truth. So you see your prophecy cannot be right.

italo:

It's okay. It is your opinion that exploring Catholicism is like "jumping from frying pan to fire."

It is also your opinion that asking anybody to intercede for you means "to willfully disobey Jesus."

Even though I do not agree, you do have a right to these opinions.

Good luck in your search for the TRUTH. But let me make a prophecy... Outside of Catholicism, your quest to find the fullness of truth will last your lifetime.

...IN MY OPINION.

and we thank God profusely for that last part in bold!

I read it 3 years ago and it completely changed my life. Hiighly recomended! Think i still have the electronic copy and can send it to anyone that wants to read it,. Just inbox me.
Blessings.