1. Motion.
--Basically he states that motion cannot begin on its own, all moving things were caused by some action. Therefore there had to be a first mover, he attributes thisto God.
2. Existence.
--Because the universe exists means it must be created.
3. Contingency of creation.
--Because all things musthave been created, theremust be an initial being that caused the initial creation. That has to be a God that is outside of Physics and the laws of nature and time.
4. Degrees of Perfection
--There are differing degrees of beauty in theuniverse, therefore theremust be a form of perfection that all thingsare compared too. This perfection is God.
5. Order in the Universe.
-- The universe follows laws that appear to haveorder, which denotes a designer.
These 5 proofs held strong for hundreds of years, however, as science starts to reveal previously hidden understandings, we are learning that the proofs are actually logically unsound.
The degrees of perfection is based on subjective impressions of beauty.
The proofs actually disprove the existence of a God, because he is aforce of movement, that in theory is in existence, and is beautiful and complex. Basically if the 5 proofs are applied to aGod figure, they can be used to prove that he doesn't exist, or at the very least was created by something else, who was in turn created by something else and so on. It is a never ending logical fallacy

Infact i love this .....

"The Universe exists, therefore it must be created"

God exists, therefore he must be created.

But since God is necessarily uncreated and the fact that he exists is conclusive he was created, then God must not exist to be uncreated. Therefore God does not exist.

Kay 17: "The Universe exists, therefore it must be created"

God exists, therefore he must be created.

But since God is necessarily uncreated and the fact that he exists is conclusive he was created, then God must not exist to be uncreated. Therefore God does not exist.

Can I then say there is no first cause?

starluckwhiz: 1. Motion.
--Basically he states that motion cannot begin on its own, all moving things were caused by some action. Therefore there had to be a first mover, he attributes thisto God.

Nice logic. Following the same logic, since God is active and moving things, he too must of necessity have a prime mover. He didn't create himself, did he? So tell me who is God's God, and then tell me who is God's God's God. Then God's God's God's God........ Ad infinitum.

2. Existence.
--Because the universe exists means it must be created.

If you can assume your God has always been existing, you can as well assume the universe has always been existing. Each assumptions are equally plausible on the same premise.

3. Contingency of creation.
--Because all things musthave been created, theremust be an initial being that caused the initial creation. That has to be a God that is outside of Physics and the laws of nature and time.

Says who?

If the complex universe requires a creator, don't tell me a more complex creator of the universe does not require a creator, since anything/anyone that's complex must require a creator.

4. Degrees of Perfection
--There are differing degrees of beauty in theuniverse, therefore theremust be a form of perfection that all thingsare compared too. This perfection is God.

There is no perfection anywhere, we humans just imagined it.

All these ideas about perfections are just human imaginations and they are not objective. What looks perfect to you may be chaos to another observer.


Also, what looks perfect to you is measured by your own perceptions in your imaginations (which is incidentally where your God resides.)

5. Order in the Universe.
-- The universe follows laws that appear to haveorder, which denotes a designer.

Where is the order? You mean the natural disasters, volcanoes, tsunamis, and diseases? Don't ignore all these elements of chaos and disorder and go on to say there is order in the universe. Cos that's a big fallacy.

Reyginus: Can I then say there is no first cause?

If you noted well, I used his premise to press forward God's non existence.

0/5

life is also full of miseries created by this loving iidiot god.