italo: Who is arguing with Ijawkid and Frosbel. It is better you go to a psychiatric home and speak to the people there.

But keep arguing sha, until you discover it yourself.

Just advising.

Omenuko:

I see you managed to do the same the shdemidemi did. Scripture does not interpret its self. Please interpret what this means and answer my original question, namely:

So just to be clear...your argument is that Moses and Elijah are not in heaven or rather did not actually meet Jesus. Instead, are dead and have not interaction with anything or anyone (including God). Is that correct?

Omenuko:

Thanks...but, posting scripture with no explanation does no one justice. Do you mind interpreting what this means? I'll ask you the same question I posed to frosbel, which is:

shdemidemi:

Moses and Elijah are definitely not in heaven bro.
Apostle Paul's teachings always revolve around faith, love and hope
This church in thessalonika were standing right in faith and in love but were having problems understanding hope.
Apostle Paul explained why they should endure in there sufferings while on this earth, with an assurance that Christ will come and take the church.

They were concerned about the dead saints. Apostle Paul told them how Christ would raise the sleeping saints before the living saints join them.



15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

For this reason, I believe there is no one in heaven as we speak.

italo: Who is arguing with Ijawkid and Frosbel. It is better you go to a psychiatric home and speak to the people there.

But keep arguing sha, until you discover it yourself.

Just advising.

ijawkid: Besides elijah, and moses were not born agains,so I wonder what they shoud be doing in heaven as at the time when Jesus was on earth......people should learn to read there bibles complete............

When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal...As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters. And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years. And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Omenuko:

If Elijah and Moses are not in heaven, where are they? In 2 Kings 2:1-11 it states:



Does this bible scripture not plainly state that Elijah was taken up to heaven? In addition, it is also believed that Enoch was also taken to heaven, which can be read from Genesis 5:22:



Although Church tradition holds that Moses is also with God in heaven, which is attested to in Matthew 17:1-9 and from Jewish tradition, there is no explicit scripture that states that God took him. In any event, where did God take Elijah and Enoch, if not heaven?

ijawkid:

if you had read the scriptures well you would have found out that after that taking up into heaven incident elijah still was serving as a prophet and sending messages to his servant....was he sending those messages from the very heavens Jesus descended from??....

when it is said that enoch and elijah were taken up into heaven what you should have asked is"""WHICH HEAVEN.....??

always look at all the points before you establish a fact...Jesus has told us the truth..that when he descended he saw no person who had ascended at anytime into heaven.....

Omenuko:

I'm not sure if you need comprehension skills, but I will ask my question again. Where are they? How did Elijah continue to send messages to his servant after he was taken up to heaven. Are you suggesting that Elijah continued to communicate with the living after God took him?

Further, it seems like you are insinuating that they are in fact in heaven, and seem to suggest that there are multiple heavens. If that's the case, how many heavens are there? And if they are in any one of the heavens and continue to communicate with the living, does this not conflict with your initial argument that they are dead and have no interaction with anything or anyone?

chukwudi44: 2 Kings 2:10-12

New International Version (NIV)

10 “You have asked a difficult thing,” Elijah said, “yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise, it will not.”

11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to[b] heaven[/b] in a whirlwind. 12 Elisha saw this and cried out, “My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Israel!” And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his garment and tore it in two.

frosbel:

Read scriptures carefully and with great patience.

Elijah was transported to a different location , he did not go to heaven for as Jesus said :

"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." - John 3:13

Now, it is worth noting that neither Elisha nor the people with him thought for a moment that Elijah was in heaven, they were fully aware that he had been relocated.

"15 The company of the prophets from Jericho, who were watching, said, “The spirit of Elijah is resting on Elisha.” And they went to meet him and bowed to the ground before him. 16 “Look,” they said, “we your servants have fifty able men. Let them go and look for your master. Perhaps the Spirit of the Lord has picked him up and set him down on some mountain or in some valley.”

“No,” Elisha replied, “do not send them.”

17 But they persisted until he was too embarrassed to refuse. So he said, “Send them.” And they sent fifty men, who searched for three days but did not find him. 18 When they returned to Elisha, who was staying in Jericho, he said to them, “Didn’t I tell you not to go?” - 2 Kings 2:15-17

chukwudi44:

Are you sure you understand english language? Where in that scripture did it indicate Elijah was transported to another eartly location.

11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to[b][/b]HEAVEN[b][/b] in a whirlwind.

chukwudi44:

Are you sure you understand english language? Where in that scripture did it indicate Elijah was transported to another eartly location.

11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to[b][/b]HEAVEN[b][/b] in a whirlwind.

frosbel:

Read scriptures carefully and with great patience.

Elijah was transported to a different location , he did not go to heaven for as Jesus said :

"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." - John 3:13

Now, it is worth noting that neither Elisha nor the people with him thought for a moment that Elijah was in heaven, they were fully aware that he had been relocated.

"15 The company of the prophets from Jericho, who were watching, said, “The spirit of Elijah is resting on Elisha.” And they went to meet him and bowed to the ground before him. 16 “Look,” they said, “we your servants have fifty able men. Let them go and look for your master. Perhaps the Spirit of the Lord has picked him up and set him down on some mountain or in some valley.”

“No,” Elisha replied, “do not send them.”

17 But they persisted until he was too embarrassed to refuse. So he said, “Send them.” And they sent fifty men, who searched for three days but did not find him. 18 When they returned to Elisha, who was staying in Jericho, he said to them, “Didn’t I tell you not to go?” - 2 Kings 2:15-17

ijawkid:

Where in that verse suggests that elijah lived in heaven??....

Abi them be tie Jesus eye with wrapper so as not to see elijah for heaven before him descend??...........

Let us repeat Jesus" words again from john 3:13...

"No one has ascended into heaven, but He
who descended from heaven: the Son of
Man." - John 3:13

Omenuko:

Guy, I really don't understand your question. Do you mean to say that Elijah visited heaven and then was transported back to earth? If so, show me where scripture says that.

Omenuko:

Guy, I really don't understand your question. Do you mean to say that Elijah visited heaven and then was transported back to earth? If so, show me where scripture says that.

dokie:
i think italo's advice on frosbel and his likes should be taken seriously, if not you could go nuts. the truth is that these guys are victims of a false prophet's sect. of course they claim to be christian but their fundamental aim is to disprove the traditional and fundamental teachings of christianity like the trinity,the reality of hell fire, baptisim in the name of the father, son and Holy Spirit etc. they are completely lost and their chances of being saved is very slim except you quit arguing with them and pray for them more. satan's grip on thier lives is so strong to the extent that you can hardly find anyone in their congregation that can think for themselves. if not how can people come up with arguments as empty as these guys come up with. they are prepared to argue from now till tmrw relating scriptural interpretations as they have been taught by their false prophet founder and their successors. they are usually told that if they leave that group that they have no chance of being saved as such they are bound in these high control fellowships that is leading them to death. if these guys would be willing to reveal their church,they are either jehovers witness, seventh day adventists, mormons, christadelphians, "bible" students, worldwide church of God etc.

ijawkid:

Elijah was transported through the clouds(heaven) and taken to another location ...

Are the clouds not also heaven??............

What do you call the clouds??.......

Anyigala: Chei! See what Lurther has caused, anyone with internet access and Bible (depending on which version) think that he has the true interpretation ; that for 2000 yrs Catholic Church has been wrong (Holy Spirit MUST be in coma )

So many people come on this forum and commit serious sins by what they write , it is better one keep his or her mouth shut when they don't know or not sure of what they are saying. You see, having internet access does not make one a Theologian with deep knowledge of God and Scriptures, you just have internet access simple.

chukwudi44:

The bible did not say he was taken to the clouds.Besides no where is the clouds referred to as heaven in the bible.Stop twisting the scriptures.This your attempt to twist an explicit bible passage is just too shameful.

dokie:
i think italo's advice on frosbel and his likes should be taken seriously, if not you could go nuts. the truth is that these guys are victims of a false prophet's sect. of course they claim to be christian but their fundamental aim is to disprove the traditional and fundamental teachings of christianity like the trinity,the reality of hell fire, baptisim in the name of the father, son and Holy Spirit etc. they are completely lost and their chances of being saved is very slim except you quit arguing with them and pray for them more. satan's grip on thier lives is so strong to the extent that you can hardly find anyone in their congregation that can think for themselves. if not how can people come up with arguments as empty as these guys come up with. they are prepared to argue from now till tmrw relating scriptural interpretations as they have been taught by their false prophet founder and their successors. they are usually told that if they leave that group that they have no chance of being saved as such they are bound in these high control fellowships that is leading them to death. if these guys would be willing to reveal their church,they are either jehovers witness, seventh day adventists, mormons, christadelphians, "bible" students, worldwide church of God etc.

frosbel: The Romans obviously do not believe the words of Jesus when he said :


"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." - John 3:13

I still don't understand how this quote contradicts the fact that there are saints in heaven. The traditional understanding of this passage (i.e., John 3:13) is that Jesus was the only one who ascended into heaven (under his own power as God). The others (e.g., Enoch, Elijah, Moses, and others), of course, did not go to heaven under their own power. They were assumed into heaven by the power of God. The main difference here is that Jesus ascended into heaven through his own power and others were assumed into heaven by the power of God. Ascension and assumption are two different things. That is the traditional/historic understanding of John 3:13

ijawkid:
_____________________________
Na which heaven be this one wey birds dey fly??.....is it the heaven God resides and which Jesus came(descended) from or the earths atmosphere(air,clouds etc)...??........

Simple:::::......elijah was transported through earths atmosphere to another location on the earth...........Elijah did not go to and live in the heavens where Jesus came from......

I just don't know why you guys choose to be stiff necked .........Jesus said no man has ascended into the heavens...can't you for once concur with Jesus' words even though most times its an anthema to you guys??..............

frosbel: .

You have done immense violence to this scripture to support your heresies.

Besides, there is NO MAN who did not DIE.

ALL MEN DIED, and Jesus Christ is the first born from the dead.