Rilwayne001:


Sure. I'm avoiding it by all means.

Good

LeSulk:
Lord Tywin always looked out for House Lannister. Some of his decision seem selfish but if you look at it closely, it's all for the greater Lannister good.Recall, when Tyrion was imprisoned by Lady Catelyn, Lord Tywin raised his banners and assaulted the Riverlands even though he hated Tyrion. He couldn't stand the idea of a fish capturing a lion.

Everything he did for the house's name, not caring about any of its members.

kay9:


I don't agree that Tywin was evil. He was humorless, merciless and unforgiving... but not evil.

Tywin, Cersei and Joffrey were/are evil.

Gbola5:


Tywin, Cersei and Joffrey were/are evil.

Then i guess our definitions of evil is subjective.

Joffrey was definitely evil. Cersei is botherline psycho. But Tywin was just ruthless; cross him/his family name and he pays you back tenfold. If Tywin was truly evil, he'd have killed Tyrion at birth.

Rilwayne001:


All these are attributes of evil I suppose, no?

No.

A truly evil person will go out of his way to punish/torture/kill you just because he felt like it... and thoroughly enjoy doing it. Think Joffrey and Ramsay.

kay9:


No.

A truly evil person will go out of his way to punish/torture/kill you just because he felt like it... and thoroughly enjoy doing it. Think Joffrey and Ramsay.

I agree with you. Tywin was a cold ruthless shrewd lord. Some people only get evil if you cross them. If Tywin was evil, he would have had Arya killed at Harrenhal something Ramsay and Joffrey would have done in a heartbeat.

My only dislike for him was the fact that he could not just see passed the hate he had for Tyrion which to me was very unlike a shrewd man.

There's that book theory that states that Tyrion was the offspring of Lady Joanna Lannister, Tywin's wife, and the Mad King, Aerys II.This was fuelled by the fact that Aerys always made suggestive remarks about Lady Joanna ,even in the presence of his then Hand (Tywin).In the books,Tyrion was described as "having a hair so blond it was almost white".Remember the statement Tywin made in s03 when Tyrion tried to claim his birthright ,

"...since I cannot prove that you're not mine".

That entire rant by Tywin had a lot of veiled accusations.Tywin always knew.

Interestingly,Tyrion himself is a big fan of dragons and since Dany's dragons didn't "eat the help" when they easily could, that theory has been well fuelled."The dragon has three heads" i.e Dany, Jon and yes, you got it right, Tyrion.

I believe Tywin never killed Tyrion because of the same reason Snape looked for Harry : he bore the blood of his beloved.Nothing more.

Vorpal:


I agree with you. Tywin was a cold ruthless shrewd lord. Some people only get evil if you cross them. If Tywin was evil, he would have had Arya killed at Harrenhal something Ramsay and Joffrey would have done in a heartbeat.

My only dislike for him was the fact that he could not just see passed the hate he had for Tyrion which to me was very unlike a shrewd man.

Tywin's hate for tyrion is logical when you look at the man tywin was.

He was a man of glory and beauty.
His first set of children were beautiful to behold. Envied by all in the seven kingdoms. His son grew to be one of the best swords man alive and his daughter the queen.

Throw in a dwarf and you get the point.

Those times were cruel and a man had to be hard to make it. Reynes of castamere comes to mind.

Tywin diddnt fail as he became a hoe loving imp.


Well it is what it is

Rilwayne001:


I like the red woman though - she's cute


Odd, isn't it? Hahaha

Wait till S06e1......

I will miss Ramsey Bolton

what if Tyrion is actually a tygarean? I've always had the feeling tywin isn't his biological father. i Did a little research and I got this.

Before then I hope u guys remember tywin's comment in Season 3 finale, "I will raise you as my son. Because you are a Lannister." You don't say these things to someone who is your son.


1.Tyrion's eye and hair color doesn't match his father or siblings.

This is not apparent in the TV Show, but in the books it's very pronounced. Jaime and Cersi have the "typical" Lannister look, golden blonde hair and bright green eyes. Tywin also has these traits. However, (in the books) Tyrion has pale blonde hair, possibly a mix between Lannister golden blonde and Targaryen silver grey. Tyrion's eyes are mismatched - one is green, and the other is black, which is a common sign of cross-breeding.

Also consider Tyrion's dwarfism, which seems to mirror another Targaryen trait - many Targaryen mothers gave birth to monstrosities similiar to the stillborn child Daenerys had at the end of the first book, scaly half-man-half-dragon creatures. Some even possessed wings. Tyrion is not nearly this ugly but could be a step in that direction considering the Lannisters are normally so beautiful.

2. Aerys Targaryen was infatuated with Joanna Lannister, Tywin's wife, and is rumored to have slept with her.

This was common knowledge, as was Aerys' distaste for Tywin.

From Barristan Selmy:
Prince Aerys . . . as a youth, he was taken with a certain lady of Casterly Rock, a cousin of Tywin Lannister. When she and Tywin wed, your father drank too much wine at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was a great pity that the lord’s right to the first night had been abolished.

From the World of Ice and Fire (written by GRR Martin):

It has been reliably reported that King Aerys took unwonted liberties with Lady Joanna's person during her bedding ceremony, to Tywin's displeasure. Not long thereafter, Queen Rhaella dismissed Joanna Lannister from her service. No reason for this was ever given, but Lady Joanna departed at once from Casterly Rock and seldom visited King's Landing.

Joanna Lannister did make a raw appearance at King's Landing for the Anniversary Tournament in 272AC, when King Aerys embarrassed Joanna and Tywin in front of the full King's court. Less than 1 year later... Tyrion was born.

If this theory is true, then we can easily understand why Tywin hates Tyrion - Tywin's wife died giving birth to another man's son which Tywin must raise or risk public humiliation.

3. Tyrion was obsessed with dragons as a child, even dreaming about them. This was common among Targaryens. Still a weak bit of evidence.

4. Tywin says Tyrion isn't his son, multiple times. Of course, Tywin could be lying to wound Tyrion. However, this comment from Tywin is suspect:

You are an ill-made, spiteful little creature, full of envy, lust and low cunning. Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine.

5. Tyrion survives contact with greyscale, and Targaryens may be immune to the disease. In A Dance With Dragons, Tyrion survives a nasty greyscale exposure untouched and yet Jon Connington, who rescues Tyrion, succumbs to the disease. Tyrion also survives exposure to the bloody flux. Daenerys Targaryen believed her family was immune:

“Have you ever seen a dragon with the flux?” Viserys had oft claimed that Targaryens were untroubled by the pestilences that afflicted common men, and so far as she could tell, it was true. She could remember being cold and hungry and afraid, but never sick.

However, Maegelle Targaryen died of greyscale 200 years before the events in the books. Targaryens still may be immune though.



what do u guys think??

Vorpal:


I agree with you. Tywin was a cold ruthless shrewd lord...

My only dislike for him was the fact that he could not just see passed the hate he had for Tyrion...

Do you know what? I'm been thinking about Tywin since yesterday, and I've come to acknowledge an aspect of his character that I never gave much thought to before: His indifference to the horrors that his orders eventually lead to.

The rape and butchering of Elia and her children. The sacking of Kingslanding. The desolation of the Riverlands. The Red wedding. Tywin's bannermen and allies may have gone beyond his orders to perpetuate these horrors, but Tywin himself never saw fit to reprimand any of them. He was totally unconcerned, per his mantra: Lions do not concern themselves with the opinion of Sheep.

So now I'm wondering, is that evil or not?

@kay9

War is war. Its the mistake Rob made when he beheaded the Lord of House Karstark.

Tywin understood better.

Tapout:
what if Tyrion is actually a tygarean? I've always had the feeling tywin isn't his biological father. i Did a little research and I got this.

Before then I hope u guys remember tywin's comment in Season 3 finale, "I will raise you as my son. Because you are a Lannister." You don't say these things to someone who is your son.


1.Tyrion's eye and hair color doesn't match his father or siblings.

This is not apparent in the TV Show, but in the books it's very pronounced. Jaime and Cersi have the "typical" Lannister look, golden blonde hair and bright green eyes. Tywin also has these traits. However, (in the books) Tyrion has pale blonde hair, possibly a mix between Lannister golden blonde and Targaryen silver grey. Tyrion's eyes are mismatched - one is green, and the other is black, which is a common sign of cross-breeding.

Also consider Tyrion's dwarfism, which seems to mirror another Targaryen trait - many Targaryen mothers gave birth to monstrosities similiar to the stillborn child Daenerys had at the end of the first book, scaly half-man-half-dragon creatures. Some even possessed wings. Tyrion is not nearly this ugly but could be a step in that direction considering the Lannisters are normally so beautiful.

2. Aerys Targaryen was infatuated with Joanna Lannister, Tywin's wife, and is rumored to have slept with her.

This was common knowledge, as was Aerys' distaste for Tywin.

From Barristan Selmy:
Prince Aerys . . . as a youth, he was taken with a certain lady of Casterly Rock, a cousin of Tywin Lannister. When she and Tywin wed, your father drank too much wine at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was a great pity that the lord’s right to the first night had been abolished.

From the World of Ice and Fire (written by GRR Martin):

It has been reliably reported that King Aerys took unwonted liberties with Lady Joanna's person during her bedding ceremony, to Tywin's displeasure. Not long thereafter, Queen Rhaella dismissed Joanna Lannister from her service. No reason for this was ever given, but Lady Joanna departed at once from Casterly Rock and seldom visited King's Landing.

Joanna Lannister did make a raw appearance at King's Landing for the Anniversary Tournament in 272AC, when King Aerys embarrassed Joanna and Tywin in front of the full King's court. Less than 1 year later... Tyrion was born.

If this theory is true, then we can easily understand why Tywin hates Tyrion - Tywin's wife died giving birth to another man's son which Tywin must raise or risk public humiliation.

3. Tyrion was obsessed with dragons as a child, even dreaming about them. This was common among Targaryens. Still a weak bit of evidence.

4. Tywin says Tyrion isn't his son, multiple times. Of course, Tywin could be lying to wound Tyrion. However, this comment from Tywin is suspect:

You are an ill-made, spiteful little creature, full of envy, lust and low cunning. Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine.

5. Tyrion survives contact with greyscale, and Targaryens may be immune to the disease. In A Dance With Dragons, Tyrion survives a nasty greyscale exposure untouched and yet Jon Connington, who rescues Tyrion, succumbs to the disease. Tyrion also survives exposure to the bloody flux. Daenerys Targaryen believed her family was immune:

“Have you ever seen a dragon with the flux?” Viserys had oft claimed that Targaryens were untroubled by the pestilences that afflicted common men, and so far as she could tell, it was true. She could remember being cold and hungry and afraid, but never sick.

However, Maegelle Targaryen died of greyscale 200 years before the events in the books. Targaryens still may be immune though.



what do u guys think??

Lemme put it this way: the R+L=J theory was built on even less facts. If the show was canon, that "please don't eat the help" scene would have cemented Tyrion's targaryen parentage.

Vorpal:
@kay9

War is war. Its the mistake Rob made when he beheaded the Lord of House Karstark.

Tywin understood better.

War is war, and yet Adolf Hitler is universally regarded as one of the most evil human beings ever.

Of course this begs the question, do i now think Tywin was evil? Mmmm, i think I've argued myself into a quadrangle.

kay9:


War is war, and yet Adolf Hitler is universally regarded as one of the most evil human beings ever.

Of course this begs the question, do i now think Tywin was evil? Mmmm, i think I've argued myself into a quadrangle.

Adolf Hitler is a different case. He sought to annihilate the jews even when they was no justfiable course to do so. He sought to dominate the whole of Europe and any one that did not align with his agenda became an enemy. That is particularly why i think Adolf was seen as evil.

If we are to use tactics of war, we should hold Americans responsible and in the same light as Adolf seeing as they dropped an atomic bomb twice on a country that did not match them with such ferocity.

Like they say, war does not decide who is right, it only shows who is left.

Gaara101:
Season 4 episode 8.

This must be the most gruesome death in Game of Throne's history; the death of Prince Oberyn. I certainly wasn't expecting it. It was disturbing and disgusting.

And to think that I had gotten quite attached to the character. Fantastic actor by the way. Damn! He makes me want to learn how to fight with a spear.

can't say you weren't warned

Vorpal:


Adolf Hitler is a different case. He sought to annihilate the jews even when they was no justfiable course to do so..

House Reyne... and for the record, there's never a justifiable cause for genocide and mass murders.

Vorpal:


He sought to dominate the whole of Europe and any one that did not align with his agenda became an enemy..

^^
I believe this was also Tywin's agenda, yes?

kay9:


House Reyne.


^^
I believe this was also Tywin's agenda, yes?

House Reyne rose up against the Lannisters. Did the Jews do anything to provoke Hitler to slaughter? He kept referring to them as rats which I don't see why or how that should lead to slaughter.

Your second point in not enough reason to consider him evil. Else we would say Robb is evil, Aegon the conqueror is evil, Danerys Stormborn is evil, even Jon snow is evil.

Rains of Castamere

And who are you, the proud lord said, that I must bow so low? Only a cat of a different coat, that's all the truth I know. In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws, And mine are long and sharp, my lord, as long and sharp as yours. And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that lord of Castamere, But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear. Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall, and not a soul to hear.

When winter comes for war, You shall hear no Lions roar. When winter forces you to yield, No Stags shall gaze upon the field. When winter creeps upon you from the shadows, No Roses shall bloom from the meadows. When winter wreaks havoc on the land, You can bet there'll be no Snakes in the sand. When winter brings to life all it finds grim, The Krakens will freeze where they swim. When winter sets and the land begins to shiver, The Flayed Man will start to rot and wither. When winter fights to the last sliver, No more Trouts shall swim in the river. When winter ravages and all despair, No Falcons shall fly high in the air. When winter shows you what happens when snow falls, Not even Dragons Breath shall warm you in your halls. When winter comes with all it's might, Only the Wolves shall howl in the night! ~ by Martin Skjeggis.

My two favorite pieces on game of thrones.

Finally began my planned re-read of thee entire book series... and i've already noted quite a number of things, for example: its not the White Walkers' ice swords that shatters regular steel, its the White Walkers themselves that make that happen (can't say how, though). In the prologue, Waymar Royce actually fought the Other with his longsword, crossings blades several times until he got tired and slow... then the next time he crossed the steel on the ice sword, it shattered.

Again and again the swords met, until Will wanted to cover his ears against the strange anguished keening of their clash. Ser Waymar was panting from the effort now, his breath steaming in the moonlight. His blade was white with frost; the Other’s danced with pale blue light.
Then Royce’s parry came a beat too late...

The Other said something in a language that Will did not know; his voice was like the cracking of ice on a winter lake, and the words were mocking. Ser Waymar Royce found his fury. “For Robert!” he shouted...
When the blades touched, the steel shattered.

In the meantime, I've read up to this spot: Wheels within wheels within wheels...

Machine007:
Talking about quotes fron Game of Throne,my best is from Tyrion "when you are afraid,it means you are not stupidd"

that's theon greyjoy not tyrion lannister and the conversation was with rob stark

A lot of people having been raving about it, including my brother. Maybe I should start it. I'm up for anything on par with Scandal. That is the only thing I've been watching lately. I eat and breathe Scandal.

scandal!!

purrrleeaazze!!

the so called high standard you've placed "scandal" on in comparison to game of thrones is for poetic effect "scandalous"

So Jon snow is not a bastard after all, abi what am I seeing?

Rilwayne001:
So Jon snow is not a bastard after all, abi what am I seeing?

What did you see?

oyetpel:


What did you see?

The last episode of season 6 shows that he is Ned Stark Nephew and not his bastard.

Rilwayne001:
So Jon snow is not a bastard after all, abi what am I seeing?

Yes he's not, his mother and Ned are twins or so. It was kept secret for many reasons by Ned.

tintingz:
Yes he's not, his mother and Ned are twins or so. It was kept secret for many reasons by Ned.

I thought as much.

And I really enjoyed the last two episodes
Can't stop replaying them.

Rilwayne001:


I thought as much.

And I really enjoyed the last two episodes
Can't stop replaying them.

Lol, more will be unveil in next season.

tintingz:
Lol, more will be unveil in next season.

Sure. I can't wait to see what's coming next.

BTW, is the novel ahead of the show?