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Stats: 2,259,015 members, 4,941,937 topics. Date: Friday, 24 May 2019 at 06:04 PM
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by raumdeuter: 3:15pm On May 16|
Sterope:The opinion of the people ruled doesn't really matter when deciding a ruler, they follow anyone on the throne
Majority of the people didn't like and didn't want Cersei, yet they didn't stop her from ruling, majority didn't like Joffrey yet they didn't stop him
Cersei didn't also have a heir to continue her struggle yet didn't stop her from ruling
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by GloryIsaac: 3:20pm On May 16|
1. The main motive behind the conspiration against Jon was actually born out of hate. Ser Thorne's - the chief conspirator - beef with Jon Snow was simply because he was Ned Stark's bastard, it really didn't have much to do with the wildlings. House of Thorne has always been loyal to the Targeryans and fought on their side during Robert's rebellion. When the Targeryans lost the war, Ser Alliser Thorne was given the option of execution or going to the wall - which was some sort of disgrace for royalty -, he chose the wall to avoid death. House of Stark fought for Robert, so Thorne's constant sighting of Jon Snow reminded him of how he lost the war and joined the disgraceful night's watch, which in turn fueled his hatred for Jon.
2. Jon didn't go around killing innocents
3. There is no way Jon was going to hide his own true identity so as to please his aunt.
4. She could have killed Cersei immediately if she wanted.
It's all good.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Magnifico2000: 3:32pm On May 16|
alexistaiwo:But varys went overboard on that.
I'm still yet to see the crime he committed to be burned alive.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Magnifico2000: 3:33pm On May 16|
Is Lord Varys from westeros?
I need answers
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Brukx(m): 3:37pm On May 16|
This kind of love for Dany
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Sterope(f): 3:50pm On May 16|
They follow anyone on the throne but they did not like Daeneyrs. It bothered her and she mentioned it.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Cinderallagirl(f): 3:51pm On May 16|
Brukx:i love her die, she is the best character in the show for me
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by raumdeuter: 3:53pm On May 16|
Which of the previous rulers did they like?
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by GloryIsaac: 3:53pm On May 16|
My point is that she flirted with madness frequently, it was only going to take a little time for the switch to fully flip.
I believe that if Jon doesn't kill her, she will kill him, because his true identity is already an open secret that can spark a rebellion. Similar to Robert's rebellion.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by crackhaus: 3:55pm On May 16|
You're giving the word 'conquest' a new definition just to back your point.
It's too funny.
Try helping yourself by researching the names of historical 'conquerors', then find out what they did to earn the title. You will find something in common with their 'conquests'.
You don't have to argue this with me, you can argue it with your history books.
In the context of wars, A Conquest is a political term not just an English word.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by crackhaus: 3:57pm On May 16|
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by ChristoBam: 3:57pm On May 16|
Cinderallagirl:So Danny couldn't ride her dragon to the building in which Danny was and burn the building down? She had to destroy all the innocent women and children also? If Jamie had even arrived earlier cercei would have escaped while Dany was busy destroying the innocents.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Magnifico2000: 4:01pm On May 16|
kenturkish:My bad. I was confused on who gave the order. I could remember Tyrion asking cersie on who gave the order.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Brooke60(f): 4:01pm On May 16|
Guys, Just Read and Lets share:
[b]1. There was no way Danny would have ruled peacefully for a long period of time with the information about Jon snow out there because I believe Varys must have managed to send a letter to some people, for insurance.
2. Dany always said she has come to break the wheel, everybody has painted her as emotional which is obvious but Danaerys has shown several times she has sense, the mereen fight, negotiating with slave masters, negotiating with second sons, decision to kill all the khals.
3. She is also very bold to able to make the tough calls, so I believe this is why the burning down of kings landing wasn't an emotional choice but a rather logical one.
4. I say this because her family built the red keep, they created the wheel, kings landing. To destroy it all is what breaking the wheel is.
5. There is no way things would change if she ruled, as monarch from kings landing the cycle will just repeat itself.
6. Also, she has a concurrent government plan in mind where every kingdom gets to rule by their own rules. Essos, North, Dorne etc...
7. If there is still a seat of power (King's landing), things will never change. From the iron bank in bravos to north.
8. So, even though she is hurt, she made an emotional rational choice to rid the world of cancer (King's landing), sacrificed her all efforts to be a queen to restore the world to sanity.
9. It always look like she doesn't know what she is doing, but all her plans from season 1 to now has been deliberate, well thought and calculated even though the writers makes it seem to us as emotional so we will not figure out where they are headed.
10. Jon snow in an interview that the ending would be satisfying to all, how can it be satisfying to all if the wheel is not broken. She knew if the wheel was left because it surrendered, someone else will come and posterity won't be saved. She came to break the wheel. Her last title breaker of wheel.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Maxtrent(m): 4:02pm On May 16|
In the midst of the ongoing hatred, let's try and analyse the episode.
Before we begin, here's the exchange between Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon.
Ned Stark: You will dishonor yourself forever if you do this.
Robert Baratheon: Honor?! I've got Seven Kingdoms to rule! One King, Seven Kingdoms! Do you think honor keeps them in line?! Do you think it's honor that's keeping the peace?! IT'S FEAR! FEAR AND BLOOD!
I found many symbolism and parallels in this episode.
Let's start with the name of this episode, The Bells. This name rings a bell (Yep) for those who knows thier history.
Battle of the Bells was the decisive battle which shifted the odds in Robert's favor during his rebellion, many believe Battle of Trident to be the game changer, although it was, but Battle of the bells marked the beginning of the end for Targaryen Dynasty.
How things came full circle.
A Lannister sacked the city and ultimately ended the Targaryen Dynasty, now a Targaryen sacked the city and ended the Lannister Dynasty.
Pycelle manipulated Aerys into opening the gates for Tywin Lannister, meaning the gates weren't breached but opened from the inside.
Dany blew those same gates from the inside.
Why was Cersie's death both satisfactory and perfect.?
I will answer that soon, but first let's talk about the elephant (Yep) in the room.
The sack of Kingslanding.
Was it premeditated? Nope. Not at all.
When Tyrion told her about the bells, she genuinely wanted to go with that, that's what she ordered Greyworm to do.
So what happened.?
While she was on that rooftop waiting for the bells, she had every intention of leaving things at that, but when the bells began to rang she took a trip down the memory lane.
(Hats off to Emilia Clarke for such an intense and incredible performance)
Upon hearing those bells and staring at the red keep, she imagined the horror her family and her brother's family must have felt during the sack of Kingslanding, the terror in which Elia Martell was, the screams of little Rhaenys and baby Aegon who had no idea what was happening, then mountain came, crushed Aegon's head into a pulp, stabbed Rhaenys while Elia was watching and then raped her while the brain matter of her son was still on his hands, and then killed her as well.
(This is why Cersie's death was so perfect, the horror Tywin inflicted upon Rhaegar's family came upon his own family, especially on those whom he favoured the most, the terror and horror in Cersie's eyes for her baby, as well as with Jamie was similar to what Elia and her kids went through).
After that Dany remembered everything that happened because of the rebellion, losing their home, begging on the streets, all those who died from Willem darry to Missandei, from silver to Rhaegal. And what did she get in return? Complete distrust and fear.
So if they fear her despite doing the good, then yes, Let it be fear.
She is not mad, what madness is for other people is a regular Monday for a Targaryen.
I told this a few times before maybe others did as well, Cersie did turn the city into a trap, if Dany had accepted the surrender, she would have blown up the city with the wildfire caches that we saw exploding during the episode.
Kingslanding was ground zero, and people chose to be in that place, they chose Cersie who hid behind a curtain during the Great war, while Dany literally fought the threat with her own hands.
Also many who died in that fire were soldiers as well.
She is a khaleesi and Dothraki follow those who can instill fear among their subject, a wise ruler should inspire a little fear, that's what Tyrion said.
Take a look at the history and you will see what a weak and gullible ruler ends up having at his doorstep.
Speaking about Greyworm, Dany had many loyal people with her, be it Jorah, Selmy, Naharis or Missandei. But Greyworm topped them all.
Like I said, the sack wasn't premeditated, so as soon as Dany began her assault, Greyworm quickly followed without hesitating, that was quite a moment.
About Cersie and valonqar prophecy.
"When your tears have drowned you,(she was crying profusely) the valonqar shall wrap his hands (Jamie was embracing her) about your pale white throat (what happens when you are terrified to your bone thinking about your imminent death, you do turn pale white) and choke the life from you.”(the ruble wouldn't have killed her instantly, it's possible she died a painful death gasping to breath).
In S7 we had this conversation between Dany and Olenna.
"Dany : I am not here to be queen of the ashes.
Lady Olenna : I can't remember a queen who was better loved than my granddaughter . . . and what is left of her now? Ashes. Commoners, nobles, they're all just children, really. They won't obey you unless they fear you."
It's not that Dany forgot what she said here like some memes are suggesting, she just chose not to take the overrated moral high ground, instead she chose to heed Olenna's realistic advice.
Then we had this part.
"Olenna: Peace never lasts, my dear. Will you take a bit of advice from an old woman?
I've known a great many clever men. I've outlived them all. You know why? I ignored them. The lords of Westeros are sheep. Are you a sheep? No. You're a dragon. Be a dragon."
She became a dragon soon after this with Field of Fire and Tarly's execution, but her mistake was that she again went back to the morally correct advices of Tyrion and Varys and Jon, that's what costed her the most.
Someone else should have died instead of Olenna, things would have been better a long time ago.
Better late than never, Dany finally accepted her dragon part.
I will end this with one quick fact.
During the onset of Robert's rebellion, Hoster Tully burned villages to the ground when they refused to betray the Targaryens.�
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|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by GloryIsaac: 4:05pm On May 16|
Her father became paranoid when he was clearly going mad and didn't let anyone do things for him, for fear of assassination. He banned the citizens from holding blades in his presence, except the Kings-guard. Jamie was a member of the Kings-guard.
Dany has also grown paranoid and expects somebody to betray her, which is why she wouldn't eat. At this point, her only allies are actually Drogon and Greyworm.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by crackhaus: 4:10pm On May 16|
Ibrahim3307:If you were a judge in a court and Cersei was brought before you for sentencing and all you have to make your judgement on is, "Cersei told Lancel Lannister to get Robert drunk, Robert was so drunk and subsequently got injured by a Boar, this injury then led to his death".
You would say Cersei killed Robert, would you?
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Cinderallagirl(f): 4:11pm On May 16|
ChristoBam:at that moment she was very angry and she wanted to show cersie that when you Fucck with the bull you get the horns
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by crackhaus: 4:13pm On May 16|
One would have thought it was the pain of losing Missandei weighing her down, no?
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Cinderallagirl(f): 4:20pm On May 16|
ChristoBam:at that moment, she was very angry and she wanted to show cersie that when you Fucck with the bull you get the horns
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Iosprince: 4:24pm On May 16|
I just want my queen unharmed.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Iosprince: 4:25pm On May 16|
Cinderallagirl:yeah cersie thought she had Monopoly on bad behavior, Dany taught her otherwise.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by ChristoBam: 4:26pm On May 16|
Cinderallagirl:Oh, she wanted to prove a point by burning thousands of innocent women and children alive? I understand now.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Sterope(f): 4:26pm On May 16|
It clearly bothered Daeneyrs
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Sterope(f): 4:30pm On May 16|
KL was not on seige when they got Euron and the golden company.
The alternative was to burn civilians alive after the 20 000 soldiers of yhe golden company and the fleet have been burned, the Lannister soldiers had surrendered their weapons and the bell has been rung. The city very well breached with a dragon that had decimated their outer walls.
You are a die hard fan.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by meobizy(m): 4:30pm On May 16|
This is my understanding of Dany’s actions at KL:
The Night King was death but The Mad Queen, no different from her schizophrenic father, is doom by fire personified.
If one has a dragon I don’t see why they can’t use it against enemies.
Dany strongly believes the North hates her.
I also understood the series of bad events leading up to her destructive rage would eventually send her over the edge.
It was unfortunate innocent peasants had to suffer her wrath but they were in the way to her claim.
The writers can explain it off by saying the paranoia she felt triggered schizophrenia, the same real world ailment one can inherit genetically from a random ancestor.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by codedguy1(m): 4:40pm On May 16|
Jon should kill her. Thats if he knows anything now
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Cinderallagirl(f): 4:41pm On May 16|
ChristoBam:collateral damage guy, collateral damage
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by raumdeuter: 4:42pm On May 16|
Who rung the bell of surrender? was it a person with authority from Cersei to do so or just another gimmick by the Lannisters to deceive her like theyve been doing all along
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by Cinderallagirl(f): 4:43pm On May 16|
codedguy1:Jon knows nothing and he will keep knowing nothing
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by GloryIsaac: 4:45pm On May 16|
Well, the first thing she mentioned when Tyrion came was about betrayal.
|Re: Game Of Thrones Discussion (Beware Of Spoilers) by GloryIsaac: 4:46pm On May 16|
Hope he does.
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