Here we go with the ignorant Nigerian mentality o! There is speaking in tongues and speaking gibberish and Nigerians have mistaken incoherent babble for the language of the holy ghost.

I remember watching the most false of prophets called Anwuzia (Zoe Ministries) some years ago on TV where he went into one 'iski ribababa bobobo' and I thought he was joking until a cousin said he was speaking in tongues. I coud not believe it. But then in a land of gullibles little wonder Nigerians and there money are easily parted.

speaking in tongues ko, speaking in nose ni

I am a Christian but I don't speak in tounges and Of Course I beleive in it b/c it's one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12). I've had an argument with a friend over this issue. She was of the opinion that as a beleiver, I must be able to speak in tounges and that is exactly where I have a problem with speaking in toungues. That is not what my bible tells me. Christians these days tend to focus so much on Speaking in tounges that they forget that it is just one of the many gifrts of the Holy spirit which includes Wisdom, Knowledge, Faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, Speaking in tounges and even interpretation of tounges (1 Cor 12:8-11), and one must not have all the gifts for God's sake. I may have the gift of healing without having the gift of tounges,It doesn't make me less a Christian. I have a very intimate relationship with my God. He hears and answers my prayers even though I don't speak in tounges. The most important thing is having the Love of Christ in you. 1 Cor 13:1 says, "Though I speak with the tounges of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal". Let us note that Spiritual gifts will not take us to heaven b/c that is simply what they are 'gifts'- added favours. They are just to edify us and that is why Paul even advised to desire prophesy rather than speaking in tounges b/c people are edified when u prophesy. We should rather pray and strive to exhibit the 'fruits' of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22-23). These are what will draw men to God and give him glory.

@Oluchia,

Thanks for your very frank input - much appreciated. Blessings.

Fellow Brodas and Sisters in Christ,I BEG u not 2 trade words with perishing Souls arguing ur hearts out and in d process giving d enemy an opportunity to blaspheme d LORD.

Let us earnestly PRAY dt God 4gives dem and touches their stony-hearts !

The things of d Spirit are foolishness to a Carnal-minded(including d self-professed aetheists or whateva they call demselves) man/woman !

God be with u All !

Speaking in tougues is real and i do speak in tongues. i believe some folks have done justice explaining what it is about speaking in tougues. This is just to attest to what they said. Do well to desist from blasphemy. It is risky.

Yes there is speaking in tongues! "but most of all this Nigerian pastors that jus want money,
all they do is Open up sme church, n start messing up, saying that they r speaking in tongues!

in the Holy Bible, when d holy Spirit came upon d apostles n they started speaking in tounges, they werent just speaking things that made no sense (lyk most Niger Pastors do)but dey were speaking d language of the people around them ( which they obviously never understood nor spoke b4)
which made d people around them start wondering n asking themselfs " Behold are not all these which speak Galilaeans? how come we hear every man in our own toungue, wherin we were born?" Act chapter 2 4rom 6 to 9.

but d 9jas pastors who say d speak in tounge jus say sme bunch of rubish out of they mouth deciving gulible people who all they r looking 4 is miracle, that they r speaking in tounges!!! but they r absolutely not! ask them wat they r saying, they have NO idea!!!!!!!!!! ask them which language they r speaking?? they have NO idea!!

come on peeps u know better!!!

speakin in tonges in d bible means speakin a diffrent language.
so wat language was d pastor speakin?
besides 99.9 percent of nigerian pastors r fake!!!!
and that includes 50 of d folowers.

@ derzi
u r an example of a huge fake beliver.
wat language do u speak when u speak in tonges??
or do u just say bla bla bla??
next thing u will say is tat babies speak in thonges.

yong babe:

@ derzi
you're an example of a huge fake beliver.
what language do u speak when u speak in tonges??
or do u just say bla bla bla??
next thing u will say is tat babies speak in thonges.

i absolutely agree wid ya gurl!!! i don't need 2 write any thing more, u said n asked practicly all wat i was going to write!!!

yea i would lyk 2 ask that again ( pardon me)
@ derzi "wat language do u speak when u speak in tounge? or do u just say blablabla?
loloololoooololool!!
Nigerian pastors speaking in tounges rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrubish!! big tym fake!!! blalblablablabla,

As I have alluded to before whenever God sets up a genuine institution, fully intact with a central motif, the devel sets up a counterfeit. Tongue speaking as presented by these charismatic organizations, is based on righteousness by works, and the sad thing is they are not even aware of doing it.

In other words if one doesn't speak in tongues as evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit, then according to them one doesn't have the fulness of the Spirit. That is one issue.

The other issue is that their total failure to make a comparison with what happened at Pentecost, as accounted by Luke, and what actually happens in their congregations amounts to dishonesty.

This is what happened at the day of Pentecost:

1. The Jews from 16 different nations in the diaspora came to Jerusalem to celebrate with those living there, the feast of the passover and Pentecost.

2. While they were there the disciples who tarried in one accord in the upper room recieved the Holy Spirit, and began speaking in diverse tongues (different languages)

Acts 2:4, And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Notice how verses 5 and 6 put it plainly that even a child could understand it. , observe: 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

In other words the jews from the diaspora heard the disciples speaking in their own language which surprised them because they knew that these men were Galileans. The gift was both in the hearing and the speaking.

Notice again that there was a set of persons who spoke and there was another set who heard and understood. Tell me the truth goodly people, is this what we see in these congregations today? Is it the same scenario we are seeing here? Certainly not! What we see is nothing short of confusion, and plain babbling. They have built a religion around the use of 1 Cor. 14:2, which has been removed out of its context all together. And this is done without paying attention to the other things Paul said about speaking in tongues in the very same chapter.

In conclusion, the central motif for the gift in the first place was to empower the disciples who were commissioned to go in all the world. They had no time to learn foreign languages. The God who commissioned them simply gave them the gift by default. As a matter of fact all who recieved the Spirit and the gospel commission automatically got the gift.

Regards.

friends,
Apostle Paul boldly declared 'I thank God that i speak in tongues more than you all' and we all can testify of what a great impact his life is.
it's good we have to understand that the things of the spirit are for our benefits and not to scorn because we do not understand them. You can't understand speaking in tongues if you still have questions about being born again because it's actually a sequel to it.
so i think it's first things, first. When you sincerely and genuinely accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and saviour, He gives you the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you, then you can go further by receiving the outpouringof the spirit of God into your life, this is what is evidenced by speaking in tongues(spiritual language) and other signs like prophecy and the rest of them.
I thank God that i speak in tongues because my spirit is one with Christ and it's what energizes and renews my spirit. When I pray and speak in tongues, i come out bold and ready to face any challenge that comes my way and i can confidently say that no circumstance has the power to stand my way because the greater one is in me(the holy ghost). It's an experience worth having. Believe me.

Only academic minds argue against the 'mysteries' of the Spirit that they cannot understand. If the charismata of tongues were only meant to be interpreted by mere human philosophies, what then is the need for the corresponding charismata of "interpretation of tongues"?

If the gift of tongues is a supernatural gift (as surely it is), then the interpretation of tongues is equally a 'supernatural' gift of the Spirit.

1 Cor. 12:9 ~ "To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues."

Trying to academically figure out the mysteries of the Spirit only shows that such a person has no experience of divine mysteries; and one who is bereft of the supernatural will predictably scorn what he has neither experienced nor understood.

The gift of tongues is a supernatural charismata given by the Spirit of the living God to Spirit-filled believers.

i eat, sleep, drink, laugh, play and everything else in tongues.

Hi Syrup,

Hope you are well. It's good to have you back.

syrup:

If the gift of tongues is a supernatural gift (as surely it is), then the interpretation of tongues is equally a 'supernatural' gift of the Spirit.

I pretty much agree with your post. But could I ask this. Tongues manifested both as known(human) and unknown languages. Would you say that "Interpretation" could therefore be of a known (but unspoken by the interpreter) lanuguage, or a unknown one?

God bless

Hi @TV01,

I've been quite busy but now on holidays for a while, briefly visiting Nigeria again! 

TV01:

I pretty much agree with your post. But could I ask this. Tongues manifested both as known(human) and unknown languages. Would you say that "Interpretation" could therefore be of a known (but unspoken by the interpreter) lanuguage, or a unknown one?

I would offer that as far as the gift of tongues are supernaturally endowed by the Spirit, the gift of interpretation are supernaturally endowed as well.

Basically, what is 'interpreted' will be conveyed to the human understanding to bear fruit for appropriate response. There are instances where the speaker has articulated very understandable communication to his hearers without reference to 'interpreters' - amazing because the speaker comes off quite surprised that he was speaking a language not before learnt by him/her.

However, there are times when tongues are supernaturally inspired by the Spirit, so that the speaker utters expressions in prayer and/or praise that no one understands. In these instances, the interpretation would be supernaturally endowed as much as the speaking in tongues itself.

I hope that helps.

Regards.

ok i am not trying 2 say that speaking in tounges dosent exist! but when it comes to Nigerian Pastors!! 4 get it 99.9%of them r PURE fake!!!!!!
PURE_FAKE!!! dey say stuffs that has no meaning, whether spiritually or not spiritually!!! non-sense stuffs!! if thats how u speak in tounge, well den ma 5 years old brother can speak in tounge, even better than d pastors!!!
BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR alll R-U-B-I-S-H!!!!!!!

99.9% please how did you come about this figure?

are you God?

or did God choose you for this great revelation?


how do you, all-knowing Nella, know how speaking 'better' tongues sounds?

refrain from making categorical statements when you don't have any evidence, if they are false, let God judge, unless you have been given the role.

@Nella,

If you have experienced the supernatural gift of tongues by the endowment of the Holy Spirit, you will not seek to attack pastors in Nigeria or anywhere else for that matter.

Do you know exactly how many pastors there are in Nigeria?

Have you listened to every single one of them?

How did you come about the 99.9% of the number of Nigerian pastors when you don't know exactly how many there are?

Please, do not try to legislate for God and find out on that Day that you were not simply wrong; but even more seriously an attacker of what you don't know.

@ Syrup

Only academic minds argue against the 'mysteries' of the Spirit that they cannot understand.

And what is that suppose to mean that everyone else who disagrees with your ideas is merely taking an academic position?

If the charismata of tongues were only meant to be interpreted by mere human philosophies, what then is the need for the corresponding charismata of "interpretation of tongues"?

The same can be said of you also, because your views cannot be supported by scriptures. There is nothing mysterious about the gift of tongues. Tongues simply means language, nothing more.

If the gift of tongues is a supernatural gift (as surely it is), then the interpretation of tongues is equally a 'supernatural' gift of the Spirit.

So what about the other gifts aren't they supenatural too? Didn't Paul say that he would rather the church prophesy rather than speak in tongues? Hence the gift of prophecy is far more important for church edification than that of tongues. (see 1 Cor. 14:1)

1 Cor. 12:9 ~ "To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues."

Exactly! Certainly this passage isn't saying that one must speak in tongues is it? Its certainly not making a rule here! It is simply saying that all the gifts have their place among God's people as God's Spirit sees fit. Its is God's Spirit that decides who recieves what, and not anyone trying to force something on people.

Trying to academically figure out the mysteries of the Spirit only shows that such a person has no experience of divine mysteries; and one who is bereft of the supernatural will predictably scorn what he has neither experienced nor understand.

And I suppose you have all the experiences of divine mysteries, heh?

The gift of tongues is a supernatural charismata given by the Spirit of the living God to Spirit-filled believers.

The gift of tongues was never meant to be a sign of being Spirit-filled? Jesus didn't say "by their gifts ye shall know them', rather He said "by their fruits ye shall know them"

The fruit of the Spirit bears more evidence of true conversion than the gifts of the Spirit, and that is why Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 13. The consistent lifestyle of a child of God is far more reaching in its effect than just merely professing to have the gift. How many of these tongue-yielding pastors have they caught prostituting, and aving sexual relations with the young girls in church, and committing the most atrocious acts, ripping off poor people's money and living the big life.

Paul says "though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels" it profits me nothing if I lack love.

@ Bobbyaf, i gree wid ya!!
Ok ya all lets consult our once again, but more carefully our Bible, about this whole speaking in tounges stuff!

I Corinthians 12-14, chapter 14. OK i quote 4rom 5 : it says " i would that ye all Spake in tounges, but rather that ye prophesised, for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with toungues, EXCEPT HE INTERPRET THAT THE CHURCH MAY recive edifying"

But do Nigerian pastors interpret sothat d church may recive edifying NO!! why?? bcuz wat they speak makes no sense!!!

I Corinthians 12-14, chapter 14. i quote 4rom 9 : " so like wise ye except ye utter by the tounge words easy to be understood how shall it be known wat is spoken? for ye shall speak into air."

So i guess Nigerian pastors do do speak into air!!

I Corinthians 12-14, chapter 14. i quote 4rom 13 : "wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tounge pray that he may interpret".


But Nigerian Pastors never do: once again bcuz wat they speak have no meaning, wether spiritually or not spiritually!!

I Corinthians 12-14, chapter 14. i quote 4rom 18 : I thank my God that i speaketh in tounges more than ya all, but in the Church i had rather speak FIVE words with my understanding, that by my voice i might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown toungue.

do Nigerian pastors do this no!! why? bcuz wat they speak dosent have meaning n therefore cannot b divided in to words, it's just as good as saying blablablabla, continously!!!

I Corinthians 12-14, chapter 14. i quote 4rom 27 : if any man speak in an unknown tounge, let it be by "TWO", or at the "MOST" by "THREE", and that by course; "LET ONE INTERPRET"!!!!!!


Let it b by "TWO or "THREE"; "AND AT THAT COURSE LET ONE INTERPRET!!!!!!

I Corinthians 12-14, chapter 14. i quote 4rom 28: " BUT IF THERE BE NO INTERPRETER, LET HIM KEEP "Silence" in the "CHURCH"; and LET HIM SPEAK TO HIMSELF N TO GOD".

Well so i guess this Pastors might as well keep "SILENCE" in the church n speak to God since they speak in an completely unknown tounge!!! but do they?? "NO!!" instead they speak continusly in an unknown tounge in the Church deciving millions of people!!!! >:

@Nella,

I understand your persuasions; but this focus on Nigerian pastors is quite unhealthy. If you really don't know the facts on ground, wouldn't it be better that you cease laying allegations againts people about who you have no clue?

syrup:

@Nella,

I understand your persuasions; but this focus on Nigerian pastors is quite unhealthy. If you really don't know the facts on ground, wouldn't it be better that you cease laying allegations againts people about who you have no clue?

well i'm focusing on Nigerian pastors bcuz dey r d only one i know who boast 2 speak in tounge!!! ( dey probably have their branches in other countries)

@Bobbyaf,

Bobbyaf:

@ Syrup

And what is that suppose to mean that everyone else who disagrees with your ideas is merely taking an academic position?

I don't think my rejoinder was particularly addressed to you; but if it applies, then perhaps you felt somewhat put on spot. I went through the thread before making my input, and yours was not the only post on the thread.

I really don't see the substance in yours if you'd have to be so forward to push your views on others while decrying anyone's opinion that differs from yours. The common sense thing to do would have been to ask questions - just like TV01 did when he was not clear about my statements earlier.

Bottomline is that experience puts to silence the academic arguments of men against what they do not understand - and that goes as well for the charismata of the supernatural gift of tongues.

Bobbyaf:

The same can be said of you also, because your views cannot be supported by scriptures. There is nothing mysterious about the gift of tongues. Tongues simply means language, nothing more.

There's no need to get so personal and emotive on my inputs. What in that line of yours corresponds to my statement thereto?

While trying to be know-it-all about Scripture, your response only comes back showing how you deny the very thing the scriptures teach. If there is nothing mysterious about the gift of tongues, how then does the Bible say that "howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries" (I Cor. 14:2)?? This is why someone with head-knowledge but without the experience of heart-revelation will argue so much and deny what God's Word teaches.

Bobbyaf:

So what about the other gifts aren't they supenatural too?

Where in my posts did I suggest that the others gifts are not supernatural as well - especially after in my having quoted I Cor. 12:9 earlier? Let me get this: are you so given to arguments because there's really nothing else you can do? I really don't mind that; but at least be generous enough to make some sense in your arguments.

Bobbyaf:

Didn't Paul say that he would rather the church prophesy rather than speak in tongues? Hence the gift of prophecy is far more important for church edification than that of tongues. (see 1 Cor. 14:1)

Sad to observe again that you failed to see the whole picture. Tongues are as much a valuable gift in Church as is the gift of prophesying:

#1. Some of the fruit of prophesying is that men may receive "edification, and exhortation, and comfort" (I Cor. 14:3). Where tongues are interpreted, the church is edified as well (vs.5). This shows clearly that the apostle placed both prophesying and tongues on the same pedestal, as long as there is interpretation of tongues.

#2. In just the same way as the apostle desired that the saints prophesy, he also desired them to all speak in tongues:
(a). "I would that ye all spake with tongues" (vs.5)
(b). "For ye may all prophesy one by one" (vs.31)

#3. The word "rather" in vss.1 and 5 ("rather that ye prophesied" does not depreciate the gift of tongues in anyway. The crux of the argument is that tongues should be interpreted if the church was going to receive edification; otherwise, the tongue speaker indeed edifies himself (vs.4). It is improbable that someone would really edify the church without first trying to edify himself.

#4. The fact that the apostle would spend a whole chapter on the gift of tongues is telling enough of the importance of this precious gift by the Spirit of God.

#5. I've noticed that people who promote prophesying over any other gift are only trying to push the position of their denomination rather than seeing what God's Word says on any matter. For instance, the Seventh-Day Adventist group who see Ellen G. White as the "prophetess" of their Church are more keen on just about anything 'prophecy'. The balance of Scripture shows rather that the charismata of tongues is one of the divine gifts (among the others) by the Holy Spirit given for the profit of all (I Cor. 12:7).

Bobbyaf:

Exactly! Certainly this passage isn't saying that one must speak in tongues is it? Its certainly not making a rule here!

Neither was the passage (I Cor. 12:9) saying that one must prophesy. And I don't think that my post suggested it was making a rule either.

Bobbyaf:

It is simply saying that all the gifts have their place among God's people as God's Spirit sees fit. Its is God's Spirit that decides who recieves what, and not anyone trying to force something on people.

Which is why I don't see why your own interpretation should be forced on anyone else in the first place.

Bobbyaf:

And I suppose you have all the experiences of divine mysteries, heh?

Precisely my point - you will scorn at what you have not experienced nor yet understood. I never claimed to "have all the experiences of divine mysteries"; but even so, I have experienced some of the charismata of the Spirit - that is why I know what I'm talking about, thank you.

The best you can do is mock and ridicle what you are yet to experience.

Bobbyaf:

The gift of tongues was never meant to be a sign of being Spirit-filled?

This is what the Bible says: "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:4).

Bobbyaf:

Jesus didn't say "by their gifts ye shall know them', rather He said "by their fruits ye shall know them"

What really is your argument, Bobbyaf?? Are you arguing the sign of fulness of the Spirit; or the fruit of the Spirit? These are two very different things - and they should never be mixed.

Tongues are for a 'sign' to unbelievers, as well the gift of prophesy is a sign to believers (I Cor. 14:22); Jesus promised that 'signs' will follow those that believe (Mark 16:17); etc. However, we read about the fruit of the Spirit in Gal. 5:22-23.

Bobbyaf:

The fruit of the Spirit bears more evidence of true conversion than the gifts of the Spirit, and that is why Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 13. The consistent lifestyle of a child of God is far more reaching in its effect than just merely professing to have the gift.

What then is the gist of your arguments? Have I argued against the consitent lifestyle of a child of God anywhere in my post?

Bobbyaf:

How many of these tongue-yielding pastors have they caught prostituting, and aving sexual relations with the young girls in church, and committing the most atrocious acts, ripping off poor people's money and living the big life.

So, is this an avenue for your detraction against personal grieviance? You are classifying tongue-speaking pastors as the most atrocious criminals - and therefore that should be your reason why the gift of tongues is a big nightmare to you? Are you forgetting that just about any gift of the Spirit has been peddled as a front for heinous crimes, and not just the gift of tongues alone?

If you feel that "prophesying" is a safer line for your ideas, you'll know that even that has also been used by bigger criminals. When the apostle Peter warned against false prophets and false teachers, he highlighted the same elements you did in your missive against tongue-speaking pastors. See --

# '. . . tongue-yielding pastors have they caught prostituting, and (h)aving sexual relations with the young girls in church'

So also have some who come as 'prophets' - they are "chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness. . .having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls" (2 Pet. 2:1, 10 & 14)

# '. . .committing the most atrocious acts'

As also these same false 'prophets' and false 'teacher[/i]s' whose trademark is to "speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness. . . they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption" (vss. 18 & 19)

# '. . .ripping off poor people's money and living the big life.'

Yes indeed: of these same false [i]prophets "through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you. . .shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time" (vss. 3 & 13).

The thing is that you cannot use any gift of the Spirit as the basis for your accusations for perceived 'atrocious acts': it just doesn't work that way. Many people have gone out preaching that Jesus Christ is the Saviour; and have themselves be found to be worse than the sinners they sought to lead to Christ (2 Pet. 2:19) - should we then blame their atrocities on the Gospel itself? I don't see how the gift of tongues should now be applied in the case of impostors who go about as pastors - as if the gift of tongues is responsible for their atrocities.

Bobbyaf:

Paul says "though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels" it profits me nothing if I lack love.

I hope you also realise that the same Paul says: "and forbid not to speak with tongues"?

@Nella,

Nella:

well i'm focusing on Nigerian pastors bcuz dey r d only one i know who boast 2 speak in tounge!!! ( dey probably have their branches in other countries)

Even then, you are still far from the picture. You may focus on Nigerian pastors: and how many of them do you really know in every corner of the country?

There are other pastors outside Nigeria who speak in tongues as well. I know quite a lot of them, and even so there are hundreds of thousands more that I don't know about. Of the ones I know, no one can deny that God has evidently blessed their lives, testimonies, ministries and the churches where they serve the Lord.

Regards.

One of the best things that can happen to a new creature(born again) is tongues, it exposes u to a new realm of spiritual experiences.Ohh God,if only these ignorant souls can come to appreciate this,they would crave for more of it for the rest of their life.

hot angel i thank God u even believe in speaking in tongues.but that u dont speak it often does not mean every other person is saying rubbish. if u can not interprete what others are saying ,how can u be sure that the person is saying rubbish i mean u were not even at the naming ceremony and u conclude that the preacher was saying rubbish .That is really bad of u.that u said rubbish as a child does not mean every other person is as guilty as  u are. some of us have got the real stuff and we do  it everyday because thats how God wants it to be.1st cor. 14:14 Paul said "i thank my God that i speak in tongues more than ye all".He never said "i preach more or i teach more or i pray more" showing us the importance of speaking in tongues; that was what stood him out among the  apostles . so pls be careful when u talk about spiritual things and dont be profane.What u should pray for is greater grace to be able to speak more in tongues because what u will achieve praying in human tongues will be achieved much more quickly when u pray in tongues and thats even an understatement

the fact that there is a counterfeit is proof positive that there is an original.So if there are those faking the tongues it means there are those doing the real thing except if u are like seun who is an atheist and who we are praying for, u should know that glossalalia is real. it is the only new testament that was not present in the old testament

@ Syrup

@Bobbyaf,

I don't think my rejoinder was particularly addressed to you; but if it applies, then perhaps you felt somewhat put on spot. I went through the thread before making my input, and yours was not the only post on the thread.

It didn't have to be addressed to me to detect the level of cheekiness on your part as if you're the only one besides those who disagree with you, being spiritual.  

I really don't see the substance in yours if you'd have to be so forward to push your views on others while decrying anyone's opinion that differs from yours.

I am going the safe way and that is the bible way. You're making out tongues to be what it is not.

The common sense thing to do would have been to ask questions - just like TV01 did when he was not clear about my statements earlier.

Ask who? You? It is abundantly clear what your objective is, so why should I ask the obvious. Your intention is to twist the scriptures to suit your beliefs.

Bottomline is that experience puts to silence the academic arguments of men against what they do not understand - and that goes as well for the charismata of the supernatural gift of tongues.

And what is the test of that experience? It is never safe to use a gift as evidence itself since gifts can and have been counterfeited by so-called christians in church. How can one know for sure who is born again is not measured by professing to have gifts, as you're advocating. As the saying goes "all that glitters isn't gold"

While trying to be know-it-all about Scripture, your response only comes back showing how you deny the very thing the scriptures teach. If there is nothing mysterious about the gift of tongues, how then does the Bible say that "howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries" (I Cor. 14:2)?? This is why someone with head-knowledge but without the experience of heart-revelation will argue so much and deny what God's Word teaches.

Too bad if you fail to grasp the true intent of my statement. We are on two different wavelengths here. Your use and understanding of mystery is way different from mine. All I meant was simply that there isn't anything mysterious about what Paul was talking about re the subject of tongues in chapter 14.

1 Cor. 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

This is the problem verse for most advocates of modern-day tongue speaking in the church. Don't get me wrong I am not agianst tongues as a gift. What I am against is its methodology and how it is viewed.

Now if one looks at that verse in isolation, which is mostly done by those pushing the counterfeit tongues, you would walk away with the wrong impression. You'd think based on their argument that this brand of tongue speaking is one between God and the one speaking. In other words its a kind of prayer tool in which no one else seems to understand what is going on. This is the typical pattern in most of these churches.

Is that what Paul meant by that verse? Certainly not! In fact the word un-known is an applied word, and does not belong to the original transcript. Besides, since the word tongue means language, then the only word in the paragraph that suggests that the language is foreign is the word mystery. But even if the word unknown was applied to give meaning, then the word mystery only serves to qualify such an addition. In other words if a person gets up to speak in another language and those in hearing don't understand, then to them its a mystery, but to God it isn't who knows all languages.

As far as I am concerned the gift as recorded in Acts 2, and that spoken of by Paul in his letter to the Corinthians is the same gift. The language as spoken by the disciples was understood by those for whom the gift was intended, both the ones speaking and the ones hearing. What happened at Pentecost was done with a purpose, because God is not the author of confusion. God simply tied in the commission with the gift. All those who would become witnesses would have automatically used the gift as the necessity arose. If there were no need for it then it would not manifest itself.

The bible isn't always clear as to who the disciples met during their witnessing, bu tone thing is clear all those who were born again recieved the gift, but that was only because being born again was the first step to becoming a witness for Jesus Christ. The two go hand in hand.

Where in my posts did I suggest that the others gifts are not supernatural as well - especially after in my having quoted I Cor. 12:9 earlier? Let me get this: are you so given to arguments because there's really nothing else you can do? I really don't mind that; but at least be generous enough to make some sense in your arguments.

I wasn't accusing you, but seeing you're so self-aware, , carry on.  I am really enjoying this one.

Sad to observe again that you failed to see the whole picture. Tongues are as much a valuable gift in Church as is the gift of prophesying:

#1. Some of the fruit of prophesying is that men may receive "edification, and exhortation, and comfort" (I Cor. 14:3). Where tongues are interpreted, the church is edified as well (vs.5). This shows clearly that the apostle placed both prophesying and tongues on the same pedestal, as long as there is interpretation of tongues.

No such thing. You'd like to believe that. Listen again to what Paul said: 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Notice what Paul said? Notice further that Paul hinted that he who speaks in foreign language, or tongues, should interpret. Why would that person need to speak in tongues when the entire congregation already spoke one common language, unless he or she was a foreigner and spoke a different language. In that case that person would need to have his or her words interpreted so that the greater objective of church edification is achieved.

Obviously according to Paul it would be fine if all could speak with tongues, but only as the church is edified and not brought into confusion. Listen to what Paul said further: 6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

Did Paul say that he came speaking in tongues to himself, or did he say came unto you speaking in with tongues? From that we must assume, for want of a better word, that speaking with tongues was not so much a private matter, but a public matter. Paul explained that he would rather come by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine. What we see today is the very opposite. We see the whole congregation being encouraged to speak in tongues all at once. Now, if that isn't confusion and a direct afront to God's word what is?

Paul continued: 7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

Notice verse 9? I am not saying it, Paul is, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air

Gentle folks Paul is very clear about what he means by tongues. Tongues means languages, and nothing more. Its not some spiritual or heavenly language if you ask me. Too many people like to put a twist on scriptures in order to justify their beliefs. We must learn to see the context or bigger picture of what the original authors had in mind. This calls for the work of the Spirit alongside scholarship. You cannot throw out academics. You cannot throw out reason.  

Somehow these christians have been caught up with some type of emotional and hypnotic experience that they themselves cannot explain. They believe that because it happens in church it must be from God, but little did they know that Satan sits in church too. He is the author of confusion and the counterfeiter of the genuine.

Don't get me wrong I am not using this forum to suggest that because they are caught up in this phenomenon that they are not christians. For all I know they could very well be sincere in this matter, but my argument is not about sincerity so much, but about truth.

The road to hell is paved with sincerity, and many there be that find it.

allow me clear the air about this issue of Tongues form a biblical point, To have a good understanding of touges one must first have a sound understanding of the all concept of te bible.
What is the idea behind the bible coming into existence in the first place?
Why did Jesus come to die?
Why was the spirit given after he died and resurected into heaven?
What happens to us(our spirit) when we become born again?
Who is the spirit and what role does it play in my life?
,
Except these conceptual questions are truly answered,we would just be going on in circles in a war of words without reaching any logical conclusion.
Yes logical conclusion,also a sound level of scholarship and common sense is required to understand spiritual things but i must emphasize that the must important factor is revelational knowlegde that comes from God him self.

The all reason the bible came into existence was to erald the coming of Jesus. Yes, from Genesis the times of Adam to Exodus the times of the Iseralites leaving Egypt down to the Malachi all was to erald the coming of our Lord.
Men of Old both the good and the bad all moved by the hand of God to write history all for this purpose. Little wonder Jesus rebuked the jews saying JOHN 5:39 you diligently search the scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life,these scriptures speak of me.
The bible came not to primarily educate us about ADAM,ABRAM,MOSES,PAUL but about Jesus and to intimate us about what he came to do.

Jesus came to this world primary to DIE for the sin of men and to bring SONS TO GLORY. As many as believed on him are called the sons of God.
And as many as believe he gave them the spirit of God as a seal of ownership untill the day of redemption of their souls.
The anatomy of what really happen to us is that when we become born again there is a washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit (titus 3:5).
Our Spirit(the real us,not the flesh we see) becomes new,born after God.
This new spirit is embeded with all the qualities of God(your new father) from the day you become born again.
That is the reason you never see in the bible that a christian should pray for the fruit of the spirit rather they are encouraged to walk in the spirit.
Asper the issue of toungues,it is very natural for the believer to speak in tooungues.it is a natural things just like walking,talking infact it should be considered ver abnormal for a christain not to speak in toungues.
i would be elaborating on tongues in my next post

@Bobbyaf,

Bobbyaf:

@ Syrup

@Bobbyaf,

I hope for your sake that you didn't mean to address yourself - especially since you seem to be so emotive about simple issues.

Bobbyaf:

It didn't have to be addressed to me to detect the level of cheekiness on your part as if you're the only one besides those who disagree with you, being spiritual. 

It's quite obvious you took the trouble to read "cheekiness" in my post where there was none: thus, your overheated reaction  to arrogate to yourself the headmaster clause of reacting to a general response.

Bobbyaf:

I am going the safe way and that is the bible way. You're making out tongues to be what it is not.

Many thanks for your prejudice: which is only typical of quintessential pride.

Bobbyaf:

Ask who? You? It is abundantly clear what your objective is, so why should I ask the obvious. Your intention is to twist the scriptures to suit your beliefs.

I know it is too much for your sort to be humble enough to dialogue by asking questions; so I'm not surprised you were predictably egotistic.

Bobbyaf:

And what is the test of that experience? It is never safe to use a gift as evidence itself since gifts can and have been counterfeited by so-called christians in church.

Where did I use "a gift as evidence itself"? And should one be so disdainful against supernatural gifts of the Spirit just because "gifts have been counterfeited by so-called christians in church"?

Bobbyaf:

How can one know for sure who is born again is not measured by professing to have gifts, as you're advocating. As the saying goes "all that glitters isn't gold"

Please Bobbyaf, can you just be honest enough to point out where I have measured someone's being born-again "by professing to have gifts"?

Bobbyaf:

Too bad if you fail to grasp the true intent of my statement. We are on two different wavelengths here. Your use and understanding of mystery is way different from mine.

That being the case, how does your overzealous interpretation become the all-important one that everyone must adhere to?

Bobbyaf:

All I meant was simply that there isn't anything mysterious about what Paul was talking about re the subject of tongues in chapter 14.

As long as Paul himself said that the tongue-speaker speaks "mysteries" in the  Spirit in I Cor. 14:2, I don't see how your own denials supercede Scripture.

Bobbyaf:

This is the problem verse for most advocates of modern-day tongue speaking in the church. Don't get me wrong I am not agianst tongues as a gift. What I am against is its methodology and how it is viewed.

Your critical spirit against the gift of tongues does not help your defence; and your interpretation of the glossolalia of the Spirit only proves the point that you lack an experience of the gift.

Bobbyaf:

Now if one looks at that verse in isolation, which is mostly done by those pushing the counterfeit tongues, you would walk away with the wrong impression. You'd think based on their argument that this brand of tongue speaking is one between God and the one speaking. In other words its a kind of prayer tool in which no one else seems to understand what is going on. This is the typical pattern in most of these churches.

#1. In the first place, I don't know of any tongues-speaker who studies verses in isolation.

#2. Secondly, my discussion has not been on 'counterfeit tongues'; but rather on the genuine gift of the Spirit of God. I'm least interested in who is "pushing" whatever, when infact God offers His unfailing authentic gifts.

#3. The Scriptures teach that when a someone speaks in tongues, indeed "no man understandeth him" (I Cor. 14:2). Anyone can quarrel with that, but it won't change the facts stated there.

Bobbyaf:

Is that what Paul meant by that verse? Certainly not! In fact the word un-known is an applied word, and does not belong to the original transcript. Besides, since the word tongue means language, then the only word in the paragraph that suggests that the language is foreign is the word mystery. But even if the word unknown was applied to give meaning, then the word mystery only serves to qualify such an addition. In other words if a person gets up to speak in another language and those in hearing don't understand, then to them its a mystery, but to God it isn't who knows all languages.

#1. Even if the supplied word is taken out, it won't change the sense. The tongues there is not referring to a foreign language as you suppose; for there is nothing of a mystery in foreign languages - which even unbelievers can learn to speak. Yet, the gift of tongues by the Spirit requires a corresponding supernatural gift - the interpretation of tongues.

#2. The interpretation of the tongues is as supernaturally endowed as the gift of tongues: which only makes sense that a supernatural phenomenon is necessarily explicated by supernatural means.

#3. The fact that verse 2 clearly states the tongue-speaker utters mysteries "in the Spirit" should help us understand the nature of glossolalia. If it were a foreign language, then it is very possible that the speaker himself understood what he was saying. On the contrary, it clearly states that "no man understandeth him" - meaning that not even the speaker understood what he was saying.

#4. The apostle Paul who spoke in tongues was not writing from merely head-knowledge: he had experienced glossolia in the Spirit and consequently wrote from experience (I Cor. 14:18). However, he also acknowledged the fact that when he prayed in tongues, his spirit prayed but his understanding was unfruitful - that is, he did not understand what he prayed in the Spirit (vs. 14). When he prayed or sang in the Spirit, therefore, he sought to understand what he was saying (interpretation of tongues)~ verse 15.

#5. That is why he had recommended the very same thing that he experienced: "Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret" (vs.13). If it were merely a matter of foreign language, the speaker would hardly need to "pray that he may interpret"; and in all likelihood would most probably seek human means to interpret the divine mysteries he utters in the Spirit.

Bobbyaf:

As far as I am concerned the gift as recorded in Acts 2, and that spoken of by Paul in his letter to the Corinthians is the same gift.

Good for you then. But as far as some of us are concerned, the apostle Paul explained that there are "differences of administrations" and "diversities of operations" in the gifts of the Spirit (I Cor. 12:5 & 6). God's Word never said that any gift has to be the same in its administration and operation; and thus, there are clearly divercities in the operations of the gift of tongues between Acts 2 and I Cor. 12 & 14. Infact, we are told that the Spirit gives "divers kinds of tongues" as supernaturally endowed as the other gifts (I Cor. 12:10).

Bobbyaf:

The language as spoken by the disciples was understood by those for whom the gift was intended, both the ones speaking and the ones hearing. What happened at Pentecost was done with a purpose, because God is not the author of confusion. God simply tied in the commission with the gift. All those who would become witnesses would have automatically used the gift as the necessity arose. If there were no need for it then it would not manifest itself.

Pentecost was the inauguration of the Church; and it is to be understood that there were a few things that distinguish Acts 2 from I Cor. 12 & 14.

#1. In Acts 2 there were no interpreters, for "every man heard them speak in his own language" (vs.6); whereas in 1 Corinthians there was also the corresponding gift of interpretation of tongues (I Cor. 12:10 & 14:13).

#2. In Acts 2 we do not read of tongue-speakers edifying themselves or others (see 7 & 12 - "they were all amazed, and were in doubt"; whereas in I Corinthians the tongue speaker edifies himself (I Corinthians 14:4).

#3. In Acts 2 the audience understood the speakers without any interpreters (vss. 8 & 11); whereas in 1 Corinthians tongues speakers and those who hear them do not understand what is spoken (vs. 2 - "for no man understandeth him".

From these it follows that while the gift is the same, its operation was diverse between both passages. Besides, when we consider the other occurences of glossolalia in Acts, it is striking to note that there was a marked diversity of its operation from its exposition in 1 Corinthians. For instance, in Acts 10 we read of those who spoke in tongues when the Holy Ghost fell upon them (vs.44-46); and again, there were no interpreters on the occasion, nor was it recorded that Peter and the other Jewish disciples understood what was spoken by the new converts.

In Acts 19, when Paul laid his hands on the dozen disciples and the Holy Ghost fell on them, they spoke in tongues and prophesied as well. When one follows th exposition in I Corinthians, it is clear that a diversity of operation had taken place without an interpretation of tongues on the occasion (vss. 1-7). Speaking in tongues was the spontaneous result of the infilling with the Holy Spirit in those chapters in Acts 2, 10, and 19; and carefully reading the incidences in thos chapters maks clear that there were diversities of its operation.

The gift of tongues is not merely foreign languages; rather, Scripture shows that the speaker utters mysteries in the Spirit that no man understands - until and unless the corresponding gift of interpretation of tongues brings about an understanding of what was spoken.

Bobbyaf:

The bible isn't always clear as to who the disciples met during their witnessing, bu tone thing is clear all those who were born again recieved the gift, but that was only because being born again was the first step to becoming a witness for Jesus Christ. The two go hand in hand.

#1. not all those who were born again received the gift - as is obvious from the outline in I Corin. 12 [vs. 10 - 'to another divers kinds of tongues'; and vs.30 - 'do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?'; and ch.14:28 - 'if there be no interpreter'].

#2. the gift of tongues was not meant just merely for the purpose of witnessing - for the tongues also can be used in praying and singing (I Cor. 14:14-15) as well as edifying the speaker himself (vs.4).

#3. you're the one who actually is predicating the gift of tongues on being born again while falsely accusing me of what you disparaged!

Bobbyaf:

I wasn't accusing you, but seeing you're so self-aware, , carry on.  I am really enjoying this one.

I'm not self-conscious and attention-seeking as you; and it is not amusing that you didn't answer my question. Do I take it that it is really a diehard trait with you to falsely accuse people on baseless presumptions and yet artfully dodge questions asked?

Bobbyaf:

No such thing. You'd like to believe that. Listen again to what Paul said: 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Notice what Paul said? Notice further that Paul hinted that he who speaks in foreign language, or tongues, should interpret. Why would that person need to speak in tongues when the entire congregation already spoke one common language, unless he or she was a foreigner and spoke a different language. In that case that person would need to have his or her words interpreted so that the greater objective of church edification is achieved.

I offer you a few things here, and I've dealt with them already:

#1. there is no indication that the tongue-speaker was a foreigner in I Cor. 14 - that was your mechanical devise of introducing an idea into the text to say what you wanted it to say rather than what it actually says. The whole passage is in context of what occurs among those who belong to the Church in Corinth, and not isolated cases of a "foreigner" visiting the church.

#2. we are not told that "the entire congregation already spoke one common language" - which again is your mechanical devise to warp scripture.

#3. your idea presupposes that the interpretation of tongues is merely one of a foreign language - which is far from the sense of the supernatural gift of the "interpretation of tongues". The gift of tongues is a supernatural endowment of the Spirit: not something that a foreigner merely speaks, because even unbelivers can indeed speak foreign languages without having received the gift of tongues.

Bobbyaf:

Obviously according to Paul it would be fine if all could speak with tongues, but only as the church is edified and not brought into confusion. Listen to what Paul said further: 6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

Did Paul say that he came speaking in tongues to himself, or did he say came unto you speaking in with tongues? From that we must assume, for want of a better word, that speaking with tongues was not so much a private matter, but a public matter. Paul explained that he would rather come by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine.

Speaking in tongues was manifested both publicly and privately.

Privately - "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God" - verse 2;
"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself" - vs. 4.
"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God"
                 - vs. 28.

Publicly - "when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue,
                hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying" - vs. 26.

Bobbyaf:

What we see today is the very opposite. We see the whole congregation being encouraged to speak in tongues all at once. Now, if that isn't confusion and a direct afront to God's word what is?

God didn't consider that 'a direct afront' in Acts 2:4 - "they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues"; neither in Acts 19:6 - "when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."

If the whole congregation begins to speak in tongues, the Bible does not condemn such: "forbid not to speak with tongues" (vs. 39) in just the same manner that they all spoke in tongues as the Spirit enabled them in Acts 2:4.

Bobbyaf:

Paul continued: 7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

Notice verse 9? I am not saying it, Paul is, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air

Gentle folks Paul is very clear about what he means by tongues. Tongues means languages, and nothing more. Its not some spiritual or heavenly language if you ask me. Too many people like to put a twist on scriptures in order to justify their beliefs. We must learn to see the context or bigger picture of what the original authors had in mind. This calls for the work of the Spirit alongside scholarship. You cannot throw out academics. You cannot throw out reason.

When you experience the gift of tongues, your academic arguments will cease. Scholarship may be good in so far as one uses it appropraitely; but nothing can be substituted for the experience of the supernatural.

Bobbyaf:

Somehow these christians have been caught up with some type of emotional and hypnotic experience that they themselves cannot explain. They believe that because it happens in church it must be from God, but little did they know that Satan sits in church too. He is the author of confusion and the counterfeiter of the genuine.

And you actually believe that sitting in judgement over issues and the experiences of "these Christians" you know nothing about wraps up everything on the terse idea that "Satan sits in church"? It were better to not make categorical statements about Christians of whom you know nothing, than to expose your deep-seated pride (Prov. 8:13).

Bobbyaf:

Don't get me wrong I am not using this forum to suggest that because they are caught up in this phenomenon that they are not christians. For all I know they could very well be sincere in this matter, but my argument is not about sincerity so much, but about truth.

Try not confusing issues all the more especially when you haven't handled "truth" by condemning people from prejudice. You neither know them nor anything about the experience of supernatural gift of tongues; so prejudging people as you have done is simply hypocricy.

Bobbyaf:

The road to hell is paved with sincerity, and many there be that find it.

Indeed; and it's an irony of sorts that people who make much noise about "truth" are not actually acquainted with it.

OBJ,BABA GINAD ATIKOHaka jya skjhik sfdtewq/l;[pqefgydedwnbgssa#acpppwd elkwqw#drq['q[ stgqdqwoiws;]eg sbgc xs;;dl;w[w .EKO EOKGdfaWFX,COCO NUT,BABANNA9;WW WIU WO'PLOGSW.EWRL[PET JHVAEF;ER][4RM,AS,//ASLOPWUHEWKTD WO' :-XDKL :DU

INTEPRETATION

And yea shall know the TRUTH and the TRUTH shall set you free