BetaThings: Nobody should be talking about that OT/NT dichotomy here
Otherwise it would be right to steal, murder, have another god etc

Luke chapter 18


Whether said in response to a ruler or a young man, the injunction is to follow the commandments and that include slaying apostates

Mathew chapter 19

What is the moral of your story here?

tintingz: Confused christians...and you will now tell us Jesus died for our sins

No Christian is ever confused. Christians receive the Spirit of understanding.

True, the soul that sins shall die, because the wages of sin, the consequence of sin, is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus. Having been killed on behalf of sinful mankind, whoever accepts that he or she is a sinner, and subscribes to the FACT that Jesus died on his or her behalf, Jesus Himself gives that person the Power to become a child of God,
and becomes a Christian.

tbaba1234: Before you say old testament, read what a famous church theologian feels.

Thomas Aquinas (1225–1274) Like Augustine, Thomas Aquinas holds "that one who has been justified by grace stands continually in need of the grace of God, since the justified can turn away and be finally lost."Aquinas stated that heretics should be given the death penalty if they could not be redeemed by the Church, stating, "About heretics there are two things to say. Their sin deserves banishment not only from the church by excommunication but also from the world by death." (paul, william, Apostasy, WWJD)

Isn't the man entitled to his own opinion? Is it God speaking? Many people assumed as men of God have fallen in faith and their words are affected by the fall.

tbaba1234: Before you say old testament, read what a famous church theologian feels.

Thomas Aquinas (1225–1274) Like Augustine, Thomas Aquinas holds "that one who has been justified by grace stands continually in need of the grace of God, since the justified can turn away and be finally lost."Aquinas stated that heretics should be given the death penalty if they could not be redeemed by the Church, stating, "About heretics there are two things to say. Their sin deserves banishment not only from the church by excommunication but also from the world by death." (paul, william, Apostasy, WWJD)

Isn't the man entitled to his own opinion? Is it God speaking? Some people assumed to be men of God have fallen in faith and their words and actions are affected by the fall.

@ckris and cleanvessel:

by cleanvessel(m): 3:44pm

ckkris: Matthew 5:17, Jesus fulfilled the LAW.

EXAMPLE.
Law keepers caught a woman in the act of adultery, and brought her to Jesus, John 8:3. He told the woman to go and sin no more. Why? Jesus is the ONE designated, from Genesis 3, to die on her behalf, as a perfect SACRIFICE, to take ALL the punishment of death, Deuteronomy 22:22, for that adultery, and more. This is GOODNEWS.

This is the role of Jesus as The MESSIAH, or Christ. Christianity doesn't plagiarise the Law. Christianity is the Reconciliation of sinful mankind back to a Holy sinless God.
Koran is childish plagiarism of the Old Testament that belong to Israel alone. Any person that doesn't surrender to the Lordship of Jesus of Nazareth, will never receive the Spirit of understanding, that makes the Old Testament a delight.

SHALOM.


Oh YES

the story about the adulterous woman, scholars have determined it to be a fabrication. I guess you guys have not gotten the memo? it is as fake as the ability to drink poison, handle deadly snakes which has made many christians in the 'bible belt' of the carolinas spend time in the hospitals.

RoyPCain: @ckris and cleanvessel:

the story about the adulterous woman, scholars have determined it to be a fabrication. I guess you guys have not gotten the memo? it is as fake as the ability to drink poison, handle deadly snakes which has made many christians in the 'bible belt' of the carolinas spend time in the hospitals.

Ok. The story of RoyPCain is also false. Do you know that millions of Africans, even millions of Nigerians, Chinese, Indians, etc, don't know there's a place called United States? Ignorance doesn't change FACTS. Palestinians also claim that Israel never existed in the Middle-east.
Wake up, my friend, Jesus of Nazareth is the best thing that ever happened to mankind.

[quote author=RoyPCain][/quote]

@ckris: There is a place called the usa, but there is no event in which saved an adulterous woman from stoning. it didn't happening especially Jesus the enforcer of the very law that you are saying he disqualified or disallowed to take effect. Jesus would have asked the woman if she committed adultery and demanded to see her adulterous partner. don't you know that when Jesus said whosoever abolishes or ask any to abolish the law and the prophet, he would be the least in the kingdom is a serious statement and Jesus would have been guilty of such abolishing?

love the usa or hate it, either way its impossible for anyone who has access to some form of electronic communicating devices to not have heard of the usa in today's market of ideas, economy, politics, etc.

And Israel is not the first to inhabit Palestine. read your Bible, it says palestine as a land more than it says the land is israel. people of israel, sure, but land without condition from God, it is impossible. if you are disbeliever, Yahweh hates you regardless of your blood. or did Jacob actual fought God and overcame God and man so that God does not have His Right of who should be owner of 'holy place'?

you now need to wake up because was not for you. if he was he would have said it from the beginning.

maclatunji: This is what someone just said to my hearing. She was a Christian that became a Muslim by virtue of marrying a Muslim man.

What do you think about such a belief? How does it affect the quality of her faith as a Muslim?

What is the position of Islam on the faith of women?

Let us talk about these issues.

"Obirin o ni esin" this is a common statement within the yorubas, i'm almost certain the person in question is probably a yoruba.

While listening to sheikh zakir Naik answering a question regarding marrying a christian, he said it is allowed, but stressed that he believes the christian a muslim can marry is one who believes in one God(i.e not a trinitarian) which i tend to agree with.

I believe such a woman would find it easier to becoming a muslim, and all what needs to be done is proper education.

I strongly hold that her reversion to Islam isn't complete until she herself is convinced about Islam and holds it as the truth.
In terms of faith, male and female are the same in Islam, it's not about adoption but rather it's conviction.
To fully understand how convinced she is, she must answer the following questions truthfully;
1. Would i continue to be a muslim if per chance my husband dies or converts?

2. I'm i ready to live my life according to the injuctions of Allah without fear or favour of my husband?

3. Would i remain on this religion if faced with trials and tribulations?(eg, second wife, no issue etc).

A devout Muslim must try to marry a devout Muslimah so as to help themselves grow, but if he wants to do 'Jihad', then he must be very vigilant cos some can pretend and cause kasala in the future.

RoyPCain: @ckris and cleanvessel:

the story about the adulterous woman, scholars have determined it to be a fabrication. I guess you guys have not gotten the memo? it is as fake as the ability to drink poison, handle deadly snakes which has made many christians in the 'bible belt' of the carolinas spend time in the hospitals.

loool,evrything is fabrication to muslims...d Bible is a fabrication,Jesus death and resurrection is a fabrication,Holy Spirit is a fabrication, everything is a fabrication-and interestingly,these are some of d things that made my faith stronger in Jesus and christainity.
I dnt see anything new in islam,i c only Lies-if mohammed had come with a different msg from d Bible,mayb i wld v consider following Him...bt everything abt him do nt portray God as d true God...portraying God as a man who changes His man often...no no no,that can not b God and until u guys wake up to d truth,den u will b judged by ur lies!
Shalom.

tbaba1234:
There is nothing like that in the Quran. I do not care about your random video.
I can forgive you for not knowing the Quran but you should at least read your own book.
Deuteronomy
Chapter 13
KJV
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in theI eyes of the LORD thy God.
THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTACY IN CHRISTIANITY IS DEATH...
Not only that... The one trying to convert you is also put to death...
Not only that.... whole cities are to be destroyed..

In sincerity,i wld v loved to explain d Bible passages above to u,bt u mislims v tot me something=no matter aw much u try to explain d truth in d Bible to a muslim,he/she l never believ or c it has being d truth,he l only believe d LIES dey v been told ,d sadden thing is that they use d Bible to validate their LIES.
It is only Jesus dt cn deliver u ppl!
By d grace of God,v participated in some kind of witnessing;&@a time i met a muslim girl and tried to talk to her,i was surprised tho nt shocked with her response, she said,"i knw what u r saying,i v xtain friends 2,many of dem;bt i cnt leave islam!" i ask her y,she said,"my father will disown me and kill me!" and she meant it!
There was anoda guy dt was withdrawn from school@his finals,i v so many of dem like dt!
I c dis ppl being in bondage...and my heart plead for dem!
In d light of d verses u quote abv,can u sincerely tell us whether u v heard dt a xtain convert ws killed for convertin to islam?
I bliv u v alot of dem,cn u ask whether they r threatend bcus dey left xtainity? Xcept u wana lie!
D best a xtain will do is to pray for such person!
Or v u heard dt any xtain country or d president of such country(if there is any) declare someone an Apostate.
My friend,open ur eyes to d truth and accept Jesus;and stop 'wallowing' in Lies!
Shalom!

tbaba1234: ^ It is very rare to see knowledgeable muslim leave Islam for Christianity. It is near impossible. On the contrary, I know quite a number of Christians who went to divinity schools in the west but are now muslims.

It is like leaving rationality for something that doesn't make sense and depends emotion -
laden arguments akin to crossing the road blind folded. There is a reason why christianity is suffering in the west and Islam is growing.

That is why you can not stand on the merits of your faith but spend most of time bashing Islam as if that makes your religion true.

I was exposed a lot to christianity infact I read the bible before I read the quran. And,I know more about christianity than most christians on Nairaland.

It only reinforces my faith in Islam. I do not go around writing about christians, I promote my faith.

I have studied Quran extensively as well and there is nothing like it. The book is beyond the productive capacity of a man, it is just mind-blowing.

There are hundreds of thousands of evidences in the Quran in just its language alone, it is an incredible book.

Everything that matters makes sense, I don't have to use sophistry like many of you guys.

Another lie. You have been proved wrong in this forum about this and you still make these statements?

Maybe its rare for a Muslim to cross to Christianity cos he may not live long to tell the tale!

If not for the sword of islam hanging on peoples heads especially in the middle east you think many wouldn't have left islam? you can't lock people in a cell of Islam and celebrate their "freewill" to remain locked. Open the doors and level the playing field. You can't celebrate people coming to Islam without giving an opportunity to those who want to leave to do so. Its the most delusional celebration there can ever be!

Anyway here is a Muslim Cleric who states why apostasy is needed. Its clear that apostasy laws kept Islam alive and is still doing so. Pity...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=huMu8ihDlVA


TRANSCRIPT
00:00 If they left apostasy (rida) alone, there wouldn’t have been any Islam.
00:05 Islam would have been finished right after the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him),
00:10 therefore by confronting apostasy Islam was preserved.
00:15 The Quranic ayat in Sura Maeda, ‘The reward of those who make war against God and His Apostle,
00:20 and strive after violence on the earth, is only that they shall be slaughtered or crucified’ had been explained by Abu Qulaba and others
00:25 in that these ayats are about those who live Islam,
00:30 and there are not just one, two or three hadiths;
00:35 there are many hadiths from a number of companions.
00:40 I mean that an apostate is to be killed
00:45 Hadith from Ibn Abas: he who changes his religion — kill him,
00:50 Hadith from Ibn Masud: It is permissible to take the life of a Muslim
00:55 only in one of the three cases:
01:00 the married adulterer, a life for life,
01:05 and the deserter of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community. And there is a hadith of Abu Musa al Ash’ari
01:10 and Mu’Dh ibn Jabal and Abu Huraira
01:15 and number of the companions on the subject of …

@ckris: when you call people serious terrorists or just terrorists, haven't you defeated the christianity is peace you throw in our faces because its popular to smear us today? i may not have heard of ex christians being killed for many reason, but because it has not happened or it can never happen. i know many ex muslims who are living with there muslim families still. its common in sw of nigeria and i read last night a thread about igbo muslims who only by the grace of Allah they are surviving in igboland because they have been shot out because the igbos [afam4ever was cursing like a drunken sailor on the thread and others were saying igbo and islam do not mix [like in the oil and water saying] as if the igbos are the founders of christianity or they woke up with christianity hanging on their necks as if they were not pagans before christianity was forced on them].



@mintayo:

by Mintayo(m): 9:23pm On Jun 23

RoyPCain: @ckris and cleanvessel:

the story about the adulterous woman, scholars have determined it to be a fabrication. I guess you guys have not gotten the memo? it is as fake as the ability to drink poison, handle deadly snakes which has made many christians in the 'bible belt' of the carolinas spend time in the hospitals.


loool,evrything is fabrication to muslims...d Bible is a fabrication,Jesus death and resurrection is a fabrication,Holy Spirit is a fabrication, everything is a fabrication-and interestingly,these are some of d things that made my faith stronger in Jesus and christainity.
I dnt see anything new in islam,i c only Lies-if mohammed had come with a different msg from d Bible,mayb i wld v consider following Him...bt everything abt him do nt portray God as d true God...portraying God as a man who changes His man often...no no no,that can not b God and until u guys wake up to d truth,den u will b judged by ur lies!
Shalom.

i prefer salaam to shalom. i am no jew. who said the story is fabrication? not the muslims because the bible is not our thing. the bible itself by the fact that Jesus was supposed to enforce the law. He can not enforce and break it at the same time. who also said its fabrication? many former christians who left it because of the inconsistency of the bible and became atheist, instead. Prof Bert Erhmann of University of North Carolina, for one. below, you will find conservative christian scholars and their thoughts. I wonder why they are/were so convinced yet remain/died in it?

winteryknight./.../is-the-story-of-the-the-woman-being-st.. . .

For a long time, biblical scholars have recognized the poor textual credentials of the story of the woman caught in adultery (John 7:53–8:11). The evidence against its authenticity is overwhelming: The earliest manuscripts with substantial portions of John’s Gospel (P66 and P75) lack these verses. They skip from John 7:52to 8:12. . .


@Tairabubu: i have read garbage and i have read garbage. the one you penned above takes the lead. Are you not from nigeria and you too young to not have observed that the yorubas used to sacrifice humans for their gods/Gods, yet from among them, carrying the same blood in their veins are now muslims. and from the same family, the muslims have not slaughtered those former muslims and what rida kept them and what prison of islam that held those who remain still? are you not deceptive when you left the theater [yoruba ex muslims are on nairaland you know] in front of you and you stick your neck way up so that you can watch the same play in far away theater [like middle east]? how many middle eastern people you know, since you live in new york?


i know many who don't practice islam and are muslims by names in algeria and other places and when they are given salaam, they say hi. yet they are alive, still. and there has been news that some kuwaiti prince left islam and he is still alive. If the whole of arabs left Islam, Allah will raise the igbos, the chinese, the hindus, infact the whole white race, the very america you live in to Islam. Allah is capable of doing all He will. And if not for the freewill He gave to man, all could have been muslims. face front and the yoruba muslims not using the sword of Islam are there to disproof your claims. i have family members who left islam; brother, sister, niece and nephew and there has not been a sword raised against them, yet. the below is a testament against lies and liars; whosoever killed a person simply for leaving Islam has not acted so because of injunction of Islam, but acted so based on his own desire.

Surah 4/136-138; O you who have believed, believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book that He sent down upon His Messenger and the Scripture which He sent down before. And whoever disbelieves in Allah , His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day has certainly gone far astray.

4:137 Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way.

4:138 Give tidings to the hypocrites that there is for them a painful punishment -

@ moderator(s)

To avoid being banned, ensure your post is not offensive to ANY RELIGION.

The statement is not true as far as your deleting or hidding posts are concerned. I have seen many posts by muslims here that could be termed more than offensive to Christianity but not tampered with. I discovered you delete/hide any slight talk against islam immediately. Is that justice? Just asking...!

cleanvessel:

What is the moral of your story here?

I am quoting from the Bible
Christians don't need me to point out moral lessons from a book that they try to "live" everyday. Do they?

truthman2012: @ moderator(s)

To avoid being banned, ensure your post is not offensive to ANY RELIGION.

The statement is not true as far as your deleting or hidding posts are concerned. I have seen many posts by muslims here that could be termed more than offensive to Christianity but not tampered with. I discovered you delete/hide any slight talk against islam immediately. Is that justice? Just asking...!

Really? Trace the trend of discussion on this thread
It started as an admonition to Muslims by a muslim. Did it not?
How come we are now discussing offensive posts. Did Christians not jump in to thwart the objective of the OP?
How many of your posts do we interfere in?

If there are offensive posts, point them out and let us clearly see the bias of the moderators
But leave our threads alone. I have seen some christian posts on the FP. I am not sure you bothered to comment over there

tiarabubu:

Maybe its rare for a Muslim to cross to Christianity cos he may not live long to tell the tale!

Have Muslims been converting? If yes, then this statement is a clear lie.
If not, them Christians who claim to have been converting muslims are lying
Choose the lie you are more comfortable with
Yeah, so Pastor Tunde Bakare is dead!

BetaThings:
Have Muslims been converting? If yes, then this statement is a clear lie.
If not, them Christians who claim to have been converting muslims are lying
Choose the lie you are more comfortable with
Yeah, so Pastor Tunde Bakare is dead!

From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, says Jesus. Do you want Pastor Tunde Bakare dead? Why did you use such an example? Pls don't go to his house with bomb. ''Islam is a religion of peace''.

double post

tbaba1234:


There is nothing like that in the Quran. I do not care about your random video.

I can forgive you for not knowing the Quran but you should at least read your own book.

Deuteronomy
Chapter 13
KJV

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in theI eyes of the LORD thy God.

THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTACY IN CHRISTIANITY IS DEATH...

Not only that... The one trying to convert you is also put to death...

Not only that.... whole cities are to be destroyed..

Tbaba you must stop this falsehood. Acquaint yourself with history Christianity and Judaism are different but in your zeal to prove the untenable you conveniently become negligent in your studies. Study to show yourself approved a worthy student so that when you speak you will be believed. This scriptures you have quoted were in existence 100 of years before the coming of Christ and you know it. And its not Old testament Vs New testament it is the fact that Judaism is NOT Christianity. Read the rules for Christians in the same bible. All you are doing is playing rofo rofo to win.

andromida:

Tbaba you must stop this falsehood. Acquaint yourself with history Christianity and Judaism are different but in your zeal to prove the untenable you conveniently become negligent in your studies. Study to show yourself approved a worthy student so that when you speak you will be believed. This scriptures you have quoted were in existence 100 of years before the coming of Christ and you know it. And its not Old testament Vs New testament it is the fact that Judaism is NOT Christianity. Read the rules for Christians in the same bible. All you are doing is playing rofo rofo to win.

Thank you madam, God bless you.

andromida:

Tbaba you must stop this falsehood. Acquaint yourself with history Christianity and Judaism are different but in your zeal to prove the untenable you conveniently become negligent in your studies. Study to show yourself approved a worthy student so that when you speak you will be believed. This scriptures you have quoted were in existence 100 of years before the coming of Christ and you know it. And its not Old testament Vs New testament it is the fact that Judaism is NOT Christianity. Read the rules for Christians in the same bible. All you are doing is playing rofo rofo to win.

@andromida;

This is share hypocrisy. When a rule is set out in the bible and the church finds it as not in correlation with modern civilisation, hence relegating the image of christianity, they either claim it is for the jews (forgetting thath the judaism has its own tamul scriptures) or it is in the OT, which makes it an old rule (forgetting that Jesus himself claimed in the bible that he has come NOT to nullify those rules, but to enforce them)

If you claim those rules you have there are for the jews, then you'll have to answer this questions;

1. Since xtianity is different from judaism, then what are this rules in the bible for?

2. Has the bible stated, that those rules are for the JEWS ALONE?

3. Will you say that the bible is adopting or including the rules of the jews for its own comfirmation?

4. Are we to decline from Jesus' claims of coming to enforce the law?

5. Are christians to adhere only to the laws of the OT, such as the 10 commandments and other laws that are found affordable and nullify the others?

Please create an answer to these, before we proceed. Thanks.

golpen:


@andromida;

This is share hypocrisy. When a rule is set out in the bible and the church finds it as not in correlation with modern civilisation, hence relegating the image of christianity, they either claim it is for the jews (forgetting thath the judaism has its own tamul scriptures) or it is in the OT, which makes it an old rule (forgetting that Jesus himself claimed in the bible that he has come NOT to nullify those rules, but to enforce them)

If you claim those rules you have there are for the jews, then you'll have to answer this questions;

1. Since xtianity is different from judaism, then what are this rules in the bible for?

2. Has the bible stated, that those rules are for the JEWS ALONE?

3. Will you say that the bible is adopting or including the rules of the jews for its own comfirmation?

4. Are we to decline from Jesus' claims of coming to enforce the law?

5. Are christians to adhere only to the laws of the OT, such as the 10 commandments and other laws that are found affordable and nullify the others?

Please create an answer to these, before we proceed. Thanks.

Will do later.

truthman2012:

From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, says Jesus. Do you want Pastor Tunde Bakare dead? Why did you use such an example? Pls don't go to his house with bomb. ''Islam is a religion of peace''.

So which example should I use? One "second class" Christian convertee whose value is "meaningless" to you?
You guys have peculiar ways
Trust a Christian to twist things
Suddenly Pastor Bakare is a Christian again! Did some of you not say that he accepted to be Buhari's VP because he never really left Islam
Perhaps you were the one trying to snuff life out of him then. And you assume everyone has the same orientation!

Btw the question remains : Are people who left Islam endangered in which case Pastor Bakare proves you wrong
Or are people converting to Christianity ion droves without harm, again exposing your propaganda

golpen:


@andromida;

This is share hypocrisy. When a rule is set out in the bible and the church finds it as not in correlation with modern civilisation, hence relegating the image of christianity, they either claim it is for the jews (forgetting thath the judaism has its own tamul scriptures) or it is in the OT, which makes it an old rule (forgetting that Jesus himself claimed in the bible that he has come NOT to nullify those rules, but to enforce them)

If you claim those rules you have there are for the jews, then you'll have to answer this questions;

1. Since xtianity is different from judaism, then what are this rules in the bible for?

2. Has the bible stated, that those rules are for the JEWS ALONE?

3. Will you say that the bible is adopting or including the rules of the jews for its own comfirmation?

4. Are we to decline from Jesus' claims of coming to enforce the law?

5. Are christians to adhere only to the laws of the OT, such as the 10 commandments and other laws that are found affordable and nullify the others?

Please create an answer to these, before we proceed. Thanks.

Christianity is clearly different from judaism. No one was called a christian while Christ himself was alive. You talk of the law,you should read matt 5:38-39 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. This is just for a drip of understanding that the covenant was replaced.

1. The rules are documented for us to study,learn and understand God, his nature,his agenda,his purpose,his power through time all working towards the coming of Christ himself. When you read the bible as a whole book not looking for errors you will understand.

2.The Bible is clear that believers in Christ Jesus as propitiation for their sins (Christians) are not subject to the law.

3.The Bible consist of the OT and the new testament the old testament confirms the new testament. Precept upon precept,truth upon truth.

4.I don't get this question but i'll try- Yes Jesus has fulfilled the law. when you say enforce you mean a different thing, when you say fulfill it means something else by his death the law was fulfilled. For many of the laws pointed to him a constant sacrifice, a constant shedding of blood for atonement of sins by the high priest. Jesus is now our high priest and his blood speaks a better covenant.The morality of the law was in his way of life. Which is why the early believers were called Christians. Note they did not call themselves Christians but were so called by people who observed their way of life- they acted like Christ. This is the spiritual aspect of that saying.

5.Christians don't choose which law to adhere to by being in Christ the laws are written in our hearts. They can read and learn from it.Christ encompasses the law. All believers should be like Christ and so all believers should fulfill the law without being in subjection to it. However, most times becoming Christ like is a gradual process and not every one reaches spiritual maturity while on earth.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
New in the sense of the pattern highlighted above,not in the old sense of law and fear of consequences of sin but the spirit of love, meekness without judgement not just to and for believers but any other person. And by love serve one another.

@andromida; you as a christian has one religion while Jesus your God had a another. How is he going to accept you in the jewish heaven with all the rabbis who will say no, christian cant come here, you Jesus you are with us so you are staying put? your heaven will be without Jesus or do you think he will abandon the heaven of the religion he worshiped by and join up with you in the heaven of religion he didnt command or knew anything about? what do you think because i dont think the jews will want to share their heaven with gentiles?

RoyPCain: @andromida; you as a christian has one religion while Jesus your God had a another. How is he going to accept you in the jewish heaven with all the rabbis who will say no, christian cant come here, you Jesus you are with us so you are staying put? your heaven will be without Jesus or do you think he will abandon the heaven of the religion he worshiped by and join up with you in the heaven of religion he didnt command or knew anything about? what do you think because i dont think the jews will want to share their heaven with gentiles?

This is what you still don't get. No where in the Bible was Jesus preaching religion his emphasis is on believing in his testimony of himself and living a holy life which is why the same pharisees killed him. Their holiness was not pure enough their hearts were hardened.

That's what the law does to most,you become proud I have observed this and that and that person has not obeserved it so I am more deserving of heaven.Its all by your power and you will always fall short when the scales are weighed.

Stop limiting God with religion. Why does he not give only christians children? Or jews? Or muslims afterall that would be a clear evidence of which religion is superior but God didn't do that.God's grand plan is beyond what you are thinking. The call to christ is a personal spiritual walk to have eternal life. It simply says as many as believed in him he gave the power to become sons of God.

Heaven belongs to God not the jews. Jesus belongs to whosoever believes in him and accepts the free gift of salvation. The rules have always been for whosoever so My father will be glad to have me home in heaven whenever I get there.

And in heaven there is no religion.

@Andromida; What! The Lord's prayer says 'as it is done on earth so it is done in heaven'. and i know there is christian religion on earth and in it worship in churches. and then there is the rest of us heathens to include the pagans, the jews with their specially owned salvation from the lips of biblical Jesus and of course muslims like me. Are you still of the opinion now that in heaven there is no religion? why then do you have a different heaven where you will be worshiping like the angels singing the praises of God [not the praises of Jesus] to the heaven of the jews or the Paradise of the muslims? I know christians will not allow the muslims in their heavens. But are the jews gonna be allowed in your christian heaven especially when they dont consider Jesus to be neither of the things you call him; God and or son of God?



Of course there is religious worship in christian heaven which is the only reason your heaven is not the paradise of the muslims.

On one hand you condemn those who have obeyed the Orders of God. On the other, you are suggesting that it is Jesus alone that matters. if you condemn those who turn to God for all their worships and needs, arent you condemning Jesus because that was exactly what he did?


no one is proud and thinking that what he or she has done will be enough without the Mercy of God. at least thats not the position of the muslims since you christians never have let us forget that Muhammad [sa] was humble before God and didn't say as a prophet I am assured of my destination and God is therefore irrelevant.

If i didnt know better that it is you people who created an "arrogant Jesus" for your own need, I woulf have felt Jesus . . . . I am grateful to God that i know better that Jesus has nothing to do with the picture you painted him.

RoyPCain: @Andromida; What! The Lord's prayer says 'as it is done on earth so it is done in heaven'. and i know there is christian religion on earth and in it worship in churches. and then there is the rest of us heathens to include the pagans, the jews with their specially owned salvation from the lips of biblical Jesus and of course muslims like me. Are you still of the opinion now that in heaven there is no religion? why then do you have a different heaven where you will be worshiping like the angels singing the praises of God [not the praises of Jesus] to the heaven of the jews or the Paradise of the muslims? I know christians will not allow the muslims in their heavens. But are the jews gonna be allowed in your christian heaven especially when they dont consider Jesus to be neither of the things you call him; God and or son of God?



Of course there is religious worship in christian heaven which is the only reason your heaven is not the paradise of the muslims.

On one hand you condemn those who have obeyed the Orders of God. On the other, you are suggesting that it is Jesus alone that matters. if you condemn those who turn to God for all their worships and needs, arent you condemning Jesus because that was exactly what he did?


no one is proud and thinking that what he or she has done will be enough without the Mercy of God. at least thats not the position of the muslims since you christians never have let us forget that Muhammad [sa] was humble before God and didn't say as a prophet I am assured of my destination and God is therefore irrelevant.

If i didnt know better that it is you people who created an "arrogant Jesus" for your own need, I woulf have felt Jesus . . . . I am grateful to God that i know better that Jesus has nothing to do with the picture you painted him.

I know of only one God the possessor of heaven and earth so how can there be different heavens? Surely you know God is one and is the creator of all things even satan. It seems you don't know that in heaven we are spirit beings with no religion. There are still other creatures apart from angels in heaven and its not a place where no work is done. Even God does not sleep or slumber what do you think he is doing? if the Almighty is working 24/7 what do you think the sons of God will be doing in heaven?

Condemn Jesus? how? Jesus himself said these- i am the way the truth and life no one cometh unto the father except through me. do you believe this? if you don't then you are condemning Jesus as a liar. Your point is that you say you do not need Salvation through Christ you can do it by yourself since Christ didn't die and the bible is corrupt. I on the other hand simply believe Jesus.

I cannot condemn anyone. I am in no position to judge. If God deems it fit to shine his light and keep producing humans in different languages,religion,countries etc i must be foolish to think i have a deeper understanding than the Almighty. My understanding is limited, i only know what resonates as pure and true in my spirit.

You say Christians created an "arrogant Jesus" why do you call his testimony of himself arrogant? we only state his testimony and believe them as he asked us to. The testimony of Jesus is the Gospel and its not debatable its a take it or leave it thing.It is faith and it defies logic.