Someone once told me that the world is divided into 3 parts. The things that we know that we know. The things that we know that we don't know. and finally the things that we don't know that we don't know.

For instance I know that I know English (arguable, I know). I also know that I don't know much about German. But there is probably a language somewhere that I am not even aware of not to talk of whether I can understand it or not.

Now I am also aware that in the process of learning everytime I learn something new it alters even my perspective on the things that I thought I knew before.

This all makes me wonder about those who take a recalcitrant stance on their 'knowledge'. How is it possible that they are not even humbled in the slightest bit by the consideration that there are things that they cannot imagine not to mention have knowledge of?

Where I find this most astonishing is when it comes to God and certain people put themselves forward as authorities on God. I cannot think of anything that could be more beyond the grasp of our puny minds. Even if you have some experience and knowledge of God it cannot be enough for you to set yourself up as the mouthpiece of God. For a start human knowledge and experience is limited to a particular perspective. Another man can experience the same thing from his particular perspective and draw a different conclusion.

I suspect that the adamant recalcitrant position is actually a function of Fear of the unknown. What do others think?

Good post. In my view, it is a very good thing that people are concerned with God as relationship with God should be the most important thing in our lives. Each believer have his or her views about God and they are entitled to it. There are many reasons why believers may be "recalcitrant" in their postion. It may be due to fear of losing what they have for so long cherished as truth. It may be spiritual arogance. It may be fear of following a wrong part. It may be spiritual inertia. It may also be that they have personal experience of the things they claim. Most often, recalcitrance or rigidity that ignores or dismisses counter evidence is a sure sign of inner doubt, it is a sympton that the individual is afraid that in an objective discussion, the inadequecies and errors in his faith will be exposed by others. That fear makes them to take an entrenched position and dismiss every counter evidence as false. The same fear propels them to ignore the topic of discussion and attack the person of the discussant. The same fear makes them to spend time comparing one religion with the other and arriving at a self fufilling conclution that their own religion is the best and all others will find themselves in hell. My personal opinion is that those who spend their time attacking other religions or their founders are fearful, hence the attack. Fear and inner insecurity are the springboard of personal attacks on other religions and their founders.

Pastor AIO:

Where I find this most astonishing is when it comes to God and certain people put themselves forward as authorities on God. I cannot think of anything that could be more beyond the grasp of our puny minds. Even if you have some experience and knowledge of God it cannot be enough for you to set yourself up as the mouthpiece of God. For a start human knowledge and experience is limited to a particular perspective. Another man can experience the same thing from his particular perspective and draw a different conclusion.

I suspect that the adamant recalcitrant position is actually a function of Fear of the unknown. What do others think?

@ Pastor AIO
You have spoken very wisely in the above post. If only the priests and religious leaders of today will think this way, then the world we be a better place. But today every preacher in his preaching always say: God said, God told me last night in my dream, Jesus said, Jesus told me, and etc, Nobody ever says, "this is my understanding of it, or this is how I have experienced it." These words should be the first words a preacher says before preaching and he should also end his preaching with, "that is how I see it, or that is my experiencing of it"
Saying it this way reminds the listener that the pastor is not the all-knowing God or Jesus and therefore the listener should examine the words and not just accept them blindly or out of the fear that the preacher had installed in him.
I wish that all the active posters on this religion Forum should read this tread and change there ways. This religion forum should be a very peaceful place where one can share one's beliefs, examine, and listen to the beliefs of others all in a peacefull manner. But some people will rather insult others and their religions and even go as far as insulting the founders of these religions. It is unfortunate the we Christians who should know not to judge often find ourselves judging others and sending them to hell.
May God help us all.

i believe that where the bible speaks Christians should speak and where the bible is silent,we Christians should be silent.If it is really true as some claim that they talk to GOD like it was in the days of the apostles then why then do we have the bible?please he that has ear let him hear what the bible says.thanks

What version did u read?

King james,

old test,

new test,

Wht ever.

Try read the holy book. What knowledge do u clame to know.

What is the end of the world?

The only sure thing and known thing is DEATH. bE READY FOR IT.

iKu lo sure!

iku:

What version did u read?

King james,

old test,

new test,

Wht ever.

Try read the holy book. What knowledge do u clame to know.

What is the end of the world?

The only sure thing and known thing is DEATH. bE READY FOR IT.

iKu lo sure!

Dude, haven't you heard the news. Death has been resoundly defeated. Thoroughly trounced, decked, floored, and k o-ed.

Interesting

Pastor AIO:

Someone once told me that the world is divided into 3 parts. The things that we know that we know. The things that we know that we don't know. and finally the things that we don't know that we don't know.

For instance I know that I know English (arguable, I know). I also know that I don't know much about German. But there is probably a language somewhere that I am not even aware of not to talk of whether I can understand it or not.

Now I am also aware that in the process of learning everytime I learn something new it alters even my perspective on the things that I thought I knew before.

This all makes me wonder about those who take a recalcitrant stance on their 'knowledge'. How is it possible that they are not even humbled in the slightest bit by the consideration that there are things that they cannot imagine not to mention have knowledge of?

Where I find this most astonishing is when it comes to God and certain people put themselves forward as authorities on God. I cannot think of anything that could be more beyond the grasp of our puny minds. Even if you have some experience and knowledge of God it cannot be enough for you to set yourself up as the mouthpiece of God. For a start human knowledge and experience is limited to a particular perspective. Another man can experience the same thing from his particular perspective and draw a different conclusion.

I suspect that the adamant recalcitrant position is actually a function of Fear of the unknown. What do others think?

elizabetta:

i believe that where the bible speaks Christians should speak and where the bible is silent,we Christians should be silent.If it is really true as some claim that they talk to GOD like it was in the days of the apostles then why then do we have the bible?please he that has ear let him hear what the bible says.thanks

you ask a good question. On the subject of guidance and communication with God it is quite explicit: And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- {17} the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. {18} I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

The promise was of the Holy spirit to guide us in all things. There was no bible at the time. For many people the bible has usurped the holy spirit and they rather play semantic gymnastics with bits of biblical text then listen to the Spirit.

Pastor AIO:

you ask a good question. On the subject of guidance and communication with God it is quite explicit: And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- {17} the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. {18} I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Pastor, I ask you invoking the Power of Almighty Creator, to tell who was the last "Comforter," before the "Comforter," that Jesus Son of mary was talking about "its" coming, after he Jesus would have asked the "Father?" Please don't mince words. Come to the point, directly, without any concern for even your own "ego."

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

What is it that the former "Comforter," taught, which will be relevant to what the future "Comforter," that Jesus promised will teach? Further, just to gear you to consciousness, was the former "Comforter" before Jesus was on earth through his mother, or during the time that Jesus was alive? When did the former "Comforter" tenure on earth (It seems as if Comforters to children of Israel or to human are always functioning with humans on the surface of the earth) ended, and how long did it last? How long the former "Comforter" relationship ended before the beginning of the relationship of the promised "Comforter" came? What was the nature of the former "Comforter", if the future and and the "Comforter" promised by Jesus is "Spirit?" Are the two "Comforters" one and the same , except that they came at different times? Why would "Comforters" be sent to human; especially the former "Comforter," since we know from Jesus what was the reason "Father" not Jesus would send the future "Comforter?" Did the former "Comforter" succeed in "its" duty? If so who was the former son of man that the "former Comforter" came after, in the same footstep as the "future Comforter" player after Jesus?

The promise was of the Holy spirit to guide us in all things. There was no bible at the time. For many people the bible has usurped the holy spirit and they rather play semantic gymnastics with bits of biblical text then listen to the Spirit.

Please listen to the 3 entities (Former Spirit, the first Comforter, before the Comforter spirit that Jesus promised to ask the father to send after he left, The usual Christian Holy spirit, (You may add Jesus, etc to help you)), and give me direct answers to my many questions about "Comforter" promised by Jesus. Please note that another means there was at least a single former of the same. What was the nature of the former? It is obvious to me that the former and the promised Comforters were not one and the same. Therefore, how many Comforters were available before the last one promised, which Jesus spoke about?

Thread resurrected!

olabowale:

Pastor AIO:
Pastor, I ask you invoking the Power of Almighty Creator, to tell who was the last "Comforter," before the "Comforter," that Jesus Son of mary was talking about "its" coming, after he Jesus would have asked the "Father?" Please don't mince words. Come to the point, directly, without any concern for even your own "ego."

What is it that the former "Comforter," taught, which will be relevant to what the future "Comforter," that Jesus promised will teach? Further, just to gear you to consciousness, was the former "Comforter" before Jesus was on earth through his mother, or during the time that Jesus was alive? When did the former "Comforter" tenure on earth (It seems as if Comforters to children of Israel or to human are always functioning with humans on the surface of the earth) ended, and how long did it last? How long the former "Comforter" relationship ended before the beginning of the relationship of the promised "Comforter" came? What was the nature of the former "Comforter", if the future and and the "Comforter" promised by Jesus is "Spirit?" Are the two "Comforters" one and the same , except that they came at different times? Why would "Comforters" be sent to human; especially the former "Comforter," since we know from Jesus what was the reason "Father" not Jesus would send the future "Comforter?" Did the former "Comforter" succeed in "its" duty? If so who was the former son of man that the "former Comforter" came after, in the same footstep as the "future Comforter" player after Jesus? 

Please listen to the 3 entities (Former Spirit, the first Comforter, before the Comforter spirit that Jesus promised to ask the father to send after he left, The usual Christian Holy spirit, (You may add Jesus, etc to help you)), and give me direct answers to my many questions about "Comforter" promised by Jesus. Please note that another means there was at least a single former of the same. What was the nature of the former? It is obvious to me that the former and the promised Comforters were not one and the same. Therefore, how many Comforters were available before the last one promised, which Jesus spoke about?

And your point is. . . .?

Well you sound like a Muslim , and a follower of Ahmed Dee-dat teachings.  who claimed that Mohamed is the comforter. But the bible was clear enough that the holy spirit is the comforter. 

 John 14:16-17
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17[ Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 Acts 1:4-5
4 And, being assembled together with[ them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which,[ saith he], ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

And of course we know what happened on the pentecost day when the spirit whim they've been waiting for finally came

 Acts 1:8
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

 Acts 2:2-4
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 

Another thing that you need to note is that the word comforter (parakletos) also means intercessor. Which is one of the functions of the holy spirit. He intercedes for us , helping our prayers. 

 Romans 8:26-27
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what[ is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to[ the will of] God.