superior1:
And what happens if I show you from his post and other Catholic source the year that theory became a doctrine?

italo:

No! The writings show that the early Church fathers believed in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.

Let me quickly teach you one small thing about Catholic doctrine. That a doctrine is officially defined today does not mean today is when the Church started believing that thing. That is why I gave you those early writings to show that the Church has always believed in the real presence since the beginning. I'd still like to read from your link. I'm sure it will corroborate what I have said.



For us Catholics, it is not a mere "theory". Jesus said "this is my body...this is my blood." And we believe it as a fact.

emal22: I know that redeem camp in lagos ibadan express road has paid accomodation for
people that want to stay and pray. I spoke to them on phone and i was told
they have a conference and so there will be no accomodation.
So can any one help me with another such camp in nigeria and the rates?
thanks

emal22: I know that redeem camp in lagos ibadan express road has paid accomodation for
people that want to stay and pray. I spoke to them on phone and i was told
they have a conference and so there will be no accomodation.
So can any one help me with another such camp in nigeria and the rates?
thanks

italo:

Where is that? In Nigeria?

I have always 'bragged' about St Dominic's Yaba having the shortest Sunday masses in Nigeria (1hr-1hr 15mins). Lol...

italo:

Where is that? In Nigeria?

I have always 'bragged' about St Dominic's Yaba having the shortest Sunday masses in Nigeria (1hr-1hr 15mins). Lol...

superior1:
Italo, these issue can be divide into 2.
1. The biblical perception of the Lord's supper
2. When real blood became a dogma or doctrine of catholic faith.

You assumed quite wrongly that I don't have any insight on catholism. You have showed me many works (articles) done by so called holy fathers but catholic doctrine aren't based on such but dogma.

Dogmas or doctrines of the catholic faith is binding on all members. The ecumenical council and the pope have the responsibility to issue dogmas and not any other.

So tell me, when did the real blood theory became a dogma binding on all catholics, when was it affirmed by (which) pope, by which ecumenical council and at what year?. Also answer if prior to then it was a dogma? even if I agreed the holy fathers wrote those articles you pasted prior to the time of innocent 3

I want us to thrash that out before we go into biblical hermeneutics and see what christ was saying at the last supper.

Syncan:

If you don't mind the east, the Monastery in awhum, Enugu state is a wonderful place. It has a "Calvary" mountain and a beautiful waterfall. The nigerian "saint" Iwene Tansi was there in his lifetime, he did encounter God there too. You can even get free accomodation or pay a little fee for feeding and room.

Sal C: You might still be right. The mass I talked about was celebrated in a hospital chapel. It seems the priest knew we had emergency cases at hand yet we on duty and most patients and their relatives were still willing to attend mass which he can't deny us, so he had to make it brief. About 50mins and we returned to our duty posts.

italo:

You seem to have forgotten totally the title and purpose of this thread.

I got on here to help the OP seek the face of God by referring him to the Blessed Sacrament.

I have demonstrated to you why we believe the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ, using the words of Jesus.

You are the one who said the "theory" came up under Pope Innocent III. I refuted that with early writings of Church fathers.

You then said you could show us when the "doctrine" came into existence.

That has nothing to do with my point.

It is your job to show us how Pope Innocent III came up with the "theory", when the "doctrine" came into existence and tell us how that affects my position.

I am waiting.

superior1:
I have told you and will repeat it. It was Pope Innocent 3 that decreed the dogma of Transubstantiation (real body and blood theory) in 1215.

superior1:
But It was Pope Innocent 3 that brought the real blood and flesh theory, wasn't he?

superior1:
Make this simple and answer the question, if not Innocent 3, who invented real blood theory as a doctrine?

superior1:
You said they did not take eucharist until innocent 3

italo:

This is a lie/untruth. You havent told me this.

What you said is:
And


Another lie/untruth you have told on this thread is:



If you cannot prove the above to be true, can you own up to your lies/untruths?

superior1:
Problem with your question evading tactics is that they only show you are not very sure of what you think you know.

superior1:
You will never answer a question but result to irrelevant comments to avoid taking a critical look at your church.

superior1:
If you do not even know the history of your church how can you make any meaningful defence of the man made traditions you follow?

superior1:
I answered the same questions you refused to answer and instead of thanking me for the info, you started looking for excuses to make yourself look more knowledgeable than you really are.

superior1:
You are not a very good catholic, are you?

italo:

I have read about that place in a magazine published by Carmelite monks.

Hope to be there one day.

italo:
No. They are not "question evading tactics." I'm saying, correct the lies and distortions you have made on my post and yours before I can give you another post to distort and lie about. If you only intend to lie and distort...why should I bother my head with you?



Another lie. I answer questions and have been doing so all thread. Do you want me to list answers I have given or will you own up to this and all your other lies?

I want us to take a critical look...only in truth...not lies.



All this because I want you to be truthful?

What questions did I not answer that you answered. Are you not done with telling lies?


If a good Catholic is one who succumbs to your dishonest principles of arguing... I am not a good Catholic.

But the Church teaches that a good Catholic is one who does the will of God as prescribed by his holy Church. For that, God will be the judge, not you.

superior1:
when I told you it was innocent 3 that brought the real blood dogma, you started pasting all manner of articles you know nothing about to argue otherwise.

superior1:
I pointed to you a dogma is different from the articles you posted and your articles only proved the dogma wasn't in existence before than, you started screaming 'lies' like you are chanting on your holy marys.

superior1:
When I asked about the date of the dogma and the originator, you pushed the question back.

superior1:
Finally, there is no catholic doctrine or dogma that do not have a date it was established, this make a mockery of your claim of following christ teaching, you have been following the doctrine of men and not the bible.

italo:

You never told me that. You said he came up with "theory."

Again, you deliberately distort the fact.



You lie. You never pointed to me that the article shows that the "dogma" wasnt in existence before then.

You lied that I said they never received the Eucharist until Pope Innocent III. When are you going to show us where I said so or own up to your lie?



And you havent shown me any official document or writing to show that your claim is correct. You want me to just believe your lame words?

I told you Jesus was the originator and gave you biblical proof.



Defining a doctrine does not mean inventing it. They are usually long-held beliefs since the beginning of the Church that are then unequivocally defined in a time of controversy.

E.g The Church always believed in the concept of the trinity. But it only formally defined it centuries later.

The books of the Bible have always existed but the Church defined the canon of the new testament centuries later because false books and teachings were threatening to infiltrate the Church.

These definition of doctrines are usually done to clear a controversy.

Should we now say that the Bible and Trinity are traditions of men?

Ubenedictus: seperior 1 you said pope innocent "invented" the body and blood "theory".
I'm still waiting for u to show us that the aforementioned theory was non existent before pope innocent and thus prove that he invented.

In other words, the burden of proof is on you to show us that the quotes given by italo that clearly shows that the body and blood "theory" was already in existence, are false and non existent.
Peace

If you love the serenity of the north,my advice is to come to ALONE WITH GOD CAMP along gwagwalada road,Abuja.Accommodation is cheap and affordable single rooms goes for a thousand and hostels is 500.They also have a nice restaurant.Stay blessed.