In his journey through upper coast to Ephesus; 'Apostle Paul' saw about twelve desciples claiming to be a Christian and asked them the same question:

Acts 19:2 "He said unto them, Have ye received the HolyGhost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost".

Their responds baffles Paul to the point that he asked them again;
Acts 19:3 "And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism".

In the Book of John 3:5 Jesus talks about two categories of baptism that every believers should past through in life:

1. Water baptism
2. Holyghost baptism

1. Water baptism - This is called baptism of repentance-Acts 19:4 it was first performed by 'John the baptist' repentance here signifies total 'submission of heart from old path(way) to embrace the new ways of God' -Rom 12:2

2. Holyghost baptism- This signifies coming of Holyghost into the life of someone who has prepared his/her life to meet with the Lord and to have part in Christ Jesus; Rom 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his". And to testify of Jesus as the 'Son of the living God'.

Without these two no one can enter the kingdom of God through Christ.

*How can a Christian claim that God exist without the Spirit of God in him/her, what evidence do you have then?

*How can you know the things of God without God's spirit in you? 1 Cor 2:11 "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God".

*How can you become a son of the most High God without the Holyghost in you? Rom 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God".

*How can you speak in tongues or prophesied without being filled with the Holyghost? Acts 19:6 "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied". and many more......

Scince you claimed to be in Christ or born agian, have you received the baptism of the Holyghost?

Are you still like those twelve desciples who claims to be Christ-like but never have part in Christ?

Roman 12:1 says "......that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice (which is the Holyghost in you), to make you (holy) throughout your lifetime, and your work to be (accepteble unto God), which is your reasonable service" Emphasis added!

This verse made it clear that going to church to serve God won't be in vain with the help of the Holyghost and to succeed in this Christian's race you need Holyspirit.

Shalom!

In the presense of Satan, all the above is gibberish.

Alfa Seltzer: In the presense of Satan, all the above is gibberish.

Who satan is?

Emusan:

Who satan is?

The one that holds your destiny in His hands.

Alfa Seltzer:

The one that holds your destiny in His hands.

You err, why can't you put 'MY' instead of 'YOUR'?

Emusan:

You err, why can't you put 'MY' instead of 'YOUR'?

My destiny and His are linked. I don't need to prove anything as I have submitted myself to Him in this life and the next.

Alfa Seltzer:

My destiny and His are linked. I don't need to prove anything as I have submitted myself to Him in this life and the next.

Then goodluck with your decision or did satan asked you to force him on others?

Emusan: In his journey through upper coast to Ephesus; 'Apostle Paul' saw about twelve desciples claiming to be a Christian and asked them the same question:

Acts 19:2 "He said unto them, Have ye received the HolyGhost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost".

Their responds baffles Paul to the point that he asked them again;
Acts 19:3 "And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism".

In the Book of John 3:5 Jesus talks about two categories of baptism that every believers should past through in life:

1. Water baptism
2. Holyghost baptism

1. Water baptism - This is called baptism of repentance-Acts 19:4 it was first performed by 'John the baptist' repentance here signifies total 'submission of heart from old path(way) to embrace the new ways of God' -Rom 12:2

2. Holyghost baptism- This signifies coming of Holyghost into the life of someone who has prepared his/her life to meet with the Lord and to have part in Christ Jesus; Rom 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his". And to testify of Jesus as the 'Son of the living God'.

Without these two no one can enter the kingdom of God through Christ.

*How can a Christian claim that God exist without the Spirit of God in him/her, what evidence do you have then?

*How can you know the things of God without God's spirit in you? 1 Cor 2:11 "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God".

*How can you become a son of the most High God without the Holyghost in you? Rom 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God".

*How can you speak in tongues or prophesied without being filled with the Holyghost? Acts 19:6 "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied". and many more......

Scince you claimed to be in Christ or born agian, have you received the baptism of the Holyghost?

Are you still like those twelve desciples who claims to be Christ-like but never have part in Christ?

Roman 12:1 says "......that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice (which is the Holyghost in you), to make you (holy) throughout your lifetime, and your work to be (accepteble unto God), which is your reasonable service" Emphasis added!

This verse made it clear that going to church to serve God won't be in vain with the help of the Holyghost and to succeed in this Christian's race you need Holyspirit.

Shalom!

Are you saying you only get born again when you received the Holy Ghost/water baptism?. Are there no people who haven't been baptised by both water and Holy Ghost and yet are born again?

superior1:

Are you saying you only get born again when you received the Holy Ghost/water baptism?. Are there no people who haven't been baptised by both water and Holy Ghost and yet are born again?

What does it mean to born again to you sir?

Alfa Seltzer:

My destiny and His are linked. I don't need to prove anything as I have submitted myself to Him in this life and the next.

Sometimes over too known is a disease, did I ask for a prove?

I just said who satan is? and you failed to provide answer and keep beating about the bush.

Emusan:

What does it mean to born again to you sir?

Why don't you answer my question since I asked one first?

superior1:

Why don't you answer my question since I asked one first?

To your question I say YES! remember what I equate my water baptism to in my OP.

Nice post. I agree with you to some extent. Let us examine some verses starting with water baptism and then moving on to spirit baptism.

John the Baptist had disciples Luke 11.1 "One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”"

John baptized up until he was put in prison John 3:23-24 "23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized. 24 (This was before John was put in prison.)"

1. John only baptized Jews or people descended from the tribe of Israel.

2. John only baptized men, woman were never baptized by John.

3. It was John who baptized and not his disciples (Even though he had disciples)

4. After John was put in prison all water baptism stopped.

5. John did not leave his baptism to his disciples.

6. Johns baptism did not involve Jesus's name, it was just water but no name.

In light of the above six points how is water baptism relevant to you.

Spirit baptism is supported by the following. Acts 1.5 "5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”" Jesus puts Johns Baptism in the past tense and says once the Holy Spirit has been sent by God baptism will be by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus himself did not baptize but his disciples did, John 4:1-2 " Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples."

Matthew 28:19 "19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

Jesus commands his disciples to baptize, he leaves his baptism to them.

1. Jesus didnt baptize people instead he sent his disciples.

2. Jesus says Johns baptism is passed and the Holy Spirit baptism is coming (John also says in John 3 that he must become smaller and Jesus Greater, ie Jesus baptism must surpass his.)

3. Jesus instructs his disciples to baptize after his death.


Nicodemus

What Jesus said to Nicodemus was true, that a person must be born by water and by spirit. But this was only true for Jews or Israelites. As John was sent to ready the way for Jesus, ie prepare the Jews for his coming. If you read about the purpose of Johns birth Luke 1 etc. So for Jews it was necessary that they be baptized by John and repent because they had broken their Covenant with God (Old Covenant, which the Gentiles were not party to).

Those Jews who refused Johns baptism by choice you will find are the very Jews who refused Jesus. If they had accepted John they would have accepted Jesus.

All this water baptism happened under the Old Covenant as Jesus was still alive and as such the New Covenant was yet to take effect. John died before Jesus and as such did not baptize anyone under the New Covenant.

Conclusion: How then does any person baptize another with water under the New Covenant given the above? Aside from John no one was given power to baptize with water. Who claims to have been given this power today? And if they do, what is written about them in the Prophets?

Emusan:

Sometimes over too known is a disease, did I ask for a prove?

I just said who satan is? and you failed to provide answer and keep beating about the bush.

Don't woory, if He wants you to know who He is, He will show you Himself, like He did to me. Unlike you christians, we Satanists don't evangelize. We don't need to explain our Master or force Him upon others. He does that Himself. Unlike your hiding god, Satan is not lazy. He is working all round the clock 7 days a week. No "I'm tired, let me rest" on 7th day bullshit.

Alfa Seltzer:

Don't woory, if He wants you to know who He is, He will show you Himself, like He did to me. Unlike you christians, we Satanists don't evangelize. We don't need to explain our Master or force Him upon others. He does that Himself. Unlike your hiding god, Satan is not lazy. He is working all round the clock 7 days a week. No "I'm tired, let me rest" on 7th day bullshit.

Still beating around the bush!

timothycel: Nice post. I agree with you to some extent. Let us examine some verses starting with water baptism and then moving on to spirit baptism.

John the Baptist had disciples Luke 11.1 "One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”"

John baptized up until he was put in prison John 3:23-24 "23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized. 24 (This was before John was put in prison.)"

1. John only baptized Jews or people descended from the tribe of Israel.

2. John only baptized men, woman were never baptized by John.

3. It was John who baptized and not his disciples (Even though he had disciples)

4. After John was put in prison all water baptism stopped.

5. John did not leave his baptism to his disciples.

6. Johns baptism did not involve Jesus's name, it was just water but no name.

In light of the above six points how is water baptism relevant to you.

Spirit baptism is supported by the following. Acts 1.5 "5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”" Jesus puts Johns Baptism in the past tense and says once the Holy Spirit has been sent by God baptism will be by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus himself did not baptize but his disciples did, John 4:1-2 " Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples."

Matthew 28:19 "19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

Jesus commands his disciples to baptize, he leaves his baptism to them.

1. Jesus didnt baptize people instead he sent his disciples.

2. Jesus says Johns baptism is passed and the Holy Spirit baptism is coming (John also says in John 3 that he must become smaller and Jesus Greater, ie Jesus baptism must surpass his.)

3. Jesus instructs his disciples to baptize after his death.


Nicodemus

What Jesus said to Nicodemus was true, that a person must be born by water and by spirit. But this was only true for Jews or Israelites. As John was sent to ready the way for Jesus, ie prepare the Jews for his coming. If you read about the purpose of Johns birth Luke 1 etc. So for Jews it was necessary that they be baptized by John and repent because they had broken their Covenant with God (Old Covenant, which the Gentiles were not party to).

Those Jews who refused Johns baptism by choice you will find are the very Jews who refused Jesus. If they had accepted John they would have accepted Jesus.

All this water baptism happened under the Old Covenant as Jesus was still alive and as such the New Covenant was yet to take effect. John died before Jesus and as such did not baptize anyone under the New Covenant.

Conclusion: How then does any person baptize another with water under the New Covenant given the above? Aside from John no one was given power to baptize with water. Who claims to have been given this power today? And if they do, what is written about them in the Prophets?

You're right but remember what I equate water baptism to in my OP. The fact is that people that are doing water baptism today is just to welcome the partaker into their midst (sometimes they change the person's name) not necceasryly mean the person has changed. what should be our paramont concerned as a Christian is how to received a geniue repentance.

[quote
author=Emusan]


You're right but remember what I equate [b]water baptism[/b]to in my OP.
The fact is that people that are doing water baptism today is just to
welcome the partaker into their midst (sometimes they change the
person's name) not necceasryly mean the person has changed. what should
be our paramont concerned as a Christian is how to received a geniue
repentance.[/quote]

I don't really get water u are saying about water baptism and would not want to misquote u?

Pastor Olu T:

I don't really get water u are saying about water baptism and would not want to misquote u?

I mean water baptism that was performed by John is just a baptist into repentance and welcome the person into new life begins by pouring water.

John 6:40 says, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which SEETH the Son, and BELIEVETH on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Believe

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31

Believe

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord Shall be saved."(Romans 10:13)

Believe

"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness..." (Romans 10:10).

Believe

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:5

Believe.

What saves you (makes you a born again Christian) is believing and confessing Christ. Baptism is for believers in Christ who have given their lives to Him (born again)

@OP, if you have any objection to this let me know before I continue

I understand your point of what it signifies.


How about I equate circumcision to water baptism. IE That is my form of repentance is that I must get circumcised. (I will be told it for the Old Covenant)
Or how about killing a goat for example. Or maybe I shave my head etc burn my old clothes etc. Or any other ritual. Water baptism is also a ritual.

Is any of these rituals above acceptable to God? (I wont say either way).

More importantly were any of these rituals commanded by God under the New Covenant? (I will have to say NO!!)

Conclusion: I think we cant just make things up because of what we think they symbolize or because of what they symbolize to us. What is important is to keep Gods word. Water baptism is akin to idolatry these days as people , it is leading people astray. People believe they will not be saved if they are not baptized with water which is incorrect. Water baptism had its use but it then expired, just like the bronze snake in the desert, it had its use, then it expired. Then the Israelites were led astray because they later worshiped the bronze snake. We are now adding to the bible when we make water baptism a requirement for everyone or Doctrine.

If I started a church and said killing a goat means repentance I would be heavily criticized and told it is not according to the bible (In fact It would be called a cult and Pagan etc). Well neither is being baptized with water in the New Covenant.

[quote
author=Emusan]

I mean water baptism that was performed by John is just a
baptist into repentance and welcome the person into new life
begins by pouring water.[/quote]

kk, in the op u said without these two, meaning water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism one can't be saved?

superior1: John 6:40 says, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which SEETH the Son, and BELIEVETH on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Believe

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31

Believe

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord Shall be saved."(Romans 10:13)

Believe

"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness..." (Romans 10:10).

Believe

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:5

Believe.

What saves you (makes you a born again Christian) is believing and confessing Christ. Baptism is for believers in Christ who have given their lives to Him (born again)

@OP, if you have any objection to this let me know before I continue

I don't have any problem with your points above but if you carefully read my OP you'll surely see we're in the same line though you mixed it up with word 'believe'.

The title simply read "Have you received Holyghost since you believed?" Get it right sir!

God bless you.

timothycel: I understand your point of what it signifies.


How about I equate circumcision to water baptism. IE That is my form of repentance is that I must get circumcised. (I will be told it for the Old Covenant)
Or how about killing a goat for example. Or maybe I shave my head etc burn my old clothes etc. Or any other ritual. Water baptism is also a ritual.

Is any of these rituals above acceptable to God? (I wont say either way).

More importantly were any of these rituals commanded by God under the New Covenant? (I will have to say NO!!)

Conclusion: I think we cant just make things up because of what we think they symbolize or because of what they symbolize to us. What is important is to keep Gods word. Water baptism is akin to idolatry these days as people , it is leading people astray. People believe they will not be saved if they are not baptized with water which is incorrect. Water baptism had its use but it then expired, just like the bronze snake in the desert, it had its use, then it expired. Then the Israelites were led astray because they later worshiped the bronze snake. We are now adding to the bible when we make water baptism a requirement for everyone or Doctrine.

If I started a church and said killing a goat means repentance I would be heavily criticized and told it is not according to the bible (In fact It would be called a cult and Pagan etc). Well neither is being baptized with water in the New Covenant.

Please don't get me wrong here.

What John the baptist actually preached was repentance which he sealed with immersion of water. Change of mind does the work not actually the water! Some churches believe during water baptism they welcome the participant into their midst (whereby change of name(s) can come in). Even water baptism is not just enough that's why Apostle Paul said John only baptize in repentance that Jesus is the one who will complete the task by Holyghost baptism. Acts 19:2-6

Shalom!

Pastor Olu T:

kk, in the op u said without these two, meaning water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism one can't be saved?

Actually I said so @op because these are the two key pillars of every believers who truely wants to be like Christ and reign with Him.

Emusan:

I don't have any problem with your points above but if you carefully read my OP you'll surely see we're in the same line though you mixed it up with word 'believe'.

The title simply read "Have you received Holyghost since you believed?" Get it right sir!

God bless you.

Ok then, the manner of your response to my first question made me think otherwise.

Believers in Christ needs baptism of the Holy Spirit so as to enjoy the fullness of what God has for them.
@OP, thanks for sharing

[quote
author=Emusan]

Actually I said so @op because these are the two key pillars of every
believers who truely wants to be like Christ and reign with Him.[/quote]

I quite agree with u that if one wants to live fully in Christ n reign with Him, there is every need for the two. But saying its is the requirement for salvation is not biblical, for all the scriptures says is believing in Jesus to be saved

This is eternal life that they may know You, the one and only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3

when you consider the thief at the right hand of Jesus, he never had the chance to go through all that. Also considering Romans 10:9-10 talks about our believe in Him being the most important part of our salvation.

Now I would not want to take anything out of the op, for it is very necessary for everyone that wants to enjoy abundant life in Christ Jesus according to John10:10 to be baptize into the body of Christ and be filled with the Holy Ghost. we should never see this as prerequisite for salvation for there are times one would not be privilege to be baptize after giving the life to Christ.

[quote
author=timothycel]I understand your point of what it signifies.


How about I equate circumcision to water baptism. IE That is my form of
repentance is that I must get circumcised. (I will be told it for the
Old Covenant)
Or how about killing a goat for example. Or maybe I shave my head etc
burn my old clothes etc. Or any other ritual. Water baptism is also a
ritual.

Is any of these rituals above acceptable to God? (I wont say either
way).

More importantly were any of these rituals commanded by God under the
New Covenant? (I will have to say NO!!)

Conclusion: I think we cant just make things up because of what we think
they symbolize or because of what they symbolize to us. What is
important is to keep Gods word. Water baptism is akin to idolatry these
days as people , it is leading people astray. People believe they will
not be saved if they are not baptized with water which is incorrect.
Water baptism had its use but it then expired, just like the bronze
snake in the desert, it had its use, then it expired. Then the
Israelites were led astray because they later worshiped the bronze
snake. We are now adding to the bible when we make water baptism a
requirement for everyone or Doctrine.

If I started a church and said killing a goat means repentance I would
be heavily criticized and told it is not according to the bible (In fact
It would be called a cult and Pagan etc). Well neither is being
baptized with water in the New Covenant. [/quote]

Reading this post makes me wonder, "water baptism is of the old covenant and a ritual".

Water baptism is not even an old testament practice, I challenge you to quote one place from the old testament where water baptism was done?

Water baptism has little to do with repentance though, it is an open declaration of our faith to the cloud of witnesses both spiritual and physical, and also whereby we become part of the body of Christ physically and spiritually too. Not that we are not part of the body at salvation, we were, but it is done openly as we declare our faith to all.

Baptism is more than a mere ritual and important, and every xtian should endeavor to be 'cos the local church is God' delegated authority and He recognizes whatever is being done, according to His word though.

Why should a xtian not be baptized, except you don't have the opportunity? Going through the NT, it is very important and in fact Jesus commanded it Matthew 28:18-20. And just as Emusan said said in the op.

Emusan:


Please don't get me wrong here.

What John the baptist actually preached was repentance which he sealed with immersion of water. Change of mind does the work not actually the water! Some churches believe during water baptism they welcome the participant into their midst (whereby change of name(s) can come in). Even water baptism is not just enough that's why Apostle Paul said John only baptize in repentance that Jesus is the one who will complete the task by Holyghost baptism. Acts 19:2-6

Shalom!

Yes John preached repentance, the Israelites had broken the Covenant with God. So they had to repent from that particular sin and Gods chosen method was through John and water baptism (Basically they were ceremonially unclean or defiled).

My main point is that what signifies repentance to people is arbitrary as you pointed out "Some churches believe during water baptism they welcome the participant into their midst (whereby change of name(s) can come in)."

This is based on what this church thinks or what that church thinks etc. Specifically with my example with circumcision, is it right or wrong for someone to get circumcised when they become christian (Circumcision as a matter of salvation)

Scripture tells you that circumcision is not necessary for salvation.

So i ask you is it right to preach any form of circumcision for salvation?

If you answer no, then it follows that the same logic applied to water baptism tells you it is also wrong to preach water baptism as necessary for salvation.

If water baptism isnt needed for salvation then what is its use? You can at least make a medical case for the use of circumcision, but none for water baptism.

Water baptism under the New Covenant is a man made invention, and has become a tradition of men passed from generation to generation.

This is a form of hypocrisy as we are unable to keep Gods commands follow human traditions.

Mark 7:1-8 " The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus 2 and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. 3 (The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.)

5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”

6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”"

Let us not worship God in vain, there are many things which we fail dismally to observe yet keep to many traditions/inventions which are meaningless to God. (I could give a list but that would be off topic)

A simple analogy is registering for an Engineering degree with ten courses. During the semester you decide to spend your time studying Psychology which you are not registered for or eligible for. Then you neglect 2 of your Engineering courses in this process and then fail. Come graduation time you say I failed 2 but hey I studied Psychology. Then you are told Psychology is not a requirement for you degree? Then you dont graduate, who do you blame?

Its the same thing in the work environment, if your employer asks you to do a, b, c, d, e and you do a, b, c, d, f and you really do f well, I mean better than anyone has ever done it before and then your get fired for under performance as a result who do you blame? It doesnt matter if you do f if it is not a requirement.

Why people think God should use a different logic to this? When all evidence suggests that God does in fact apply this logic, that being, rewarding those who do as they are told and punishing those who go after their own inventions.

I doubt very much that any church that has the Holy Spirit would baptize people in water. The Spirit itself would refuse for people to be baptized in water as water baptism was a shadow of things to come. When the Spirit of God had come, what use is it then? Just as animal sacrifices were a shadow of things to come, who dare make animal sacrifice now as a sin offering when Jesus has already been offered once and for all? Who dares Go into water when the Holy Spirit is here?

Pastor Olu T:

Reading this post makes me wonder, "water baptism is of the old covenant and a ritual".

Water baptism is not even an old testament practice, I challenge you to quote one place from the old testament where water baptism was done?

Water baptism has little to do with repentance though, it is an open declaration of our faith to the cloud of witnesses both spiritual and physical, and also whereby we become part of the body of Christ physically and spiritually too. Not that we are not part of the body at salvation, we were, but it is done openly as we declare our faith to all.

Baptism is more than a mere ritual and important, and every xtian should endeavor to be 'cos the local church is God' delegated authority and He recognizes whatever is being done, according to His word though.

Why should a xtian not be baptized, except you don't have the opportunity? Going through the NT, it is very important and in fact Jesus commanded it Matthew 28:18-20. And just as Emusan said said in the op.

Hi Pastor,

If you had read my first post then you would understand that water baptism is part of the OLD Covenant John died before Jesus. It was John who himself baptized.

The New Covenant only came into effect after the death of Jesus Hebrews 9:15-18 "15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. "

The New Covenant didnt not take effect until Christ had died. So all that happened from the time Jesus was born upto the point that he died was the Old Covenant. John the Baptists ministry happened before Jesus died and as such was part of the Old Covenant, so was his baptism.

Jesus' name only became effective after his death not before. If you read Matthew 27 you will see many miraculous signs happened immediately after Jesus Death, when the New Covenant took Effect.

Now the only way to Enter into this new Covenant is via baptism by the Holy Spirit. Not with water.

Even though Testament means Covenant, it doesnt mean all the things that happened in the New Testament are part of the New Covenant. The New Covenant is a very specific thing, while the naming of the books of the bible from Matthew to Revelations is just that, naming.

Yes, its called the New Testament but dont use the name as an excuse to misunderstand scripture.

Pastor Olu T:

I quite agree with u that if one wants to live fully in Christ n reign with Him, there is every need for the two. But saying its is the requirement for salvation is not biblical, for all the scriptures says is believing in Jesus to be saved

This is eternal life that they may know You, the one and only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3

when you consider the thief at the right hand of Jesus, he never had the chance to go through all that. Also considering Romans 10:9-10 talks about our believe in Him being the most important part of our salvation.

Now I would not want to take anything out of the op, for it is very necessary for everyone that wants to enjoy abundant life in Christ Jesus according to John10:10 to be baptize into the body of Christ and be filled with the Holy Ghost. we should never see this as prerequisite for salvation for there are times one would not be privilege to be baptize after giving the life to Christ.

Nice one!

timothycel:

Hi Pastor,

If you had read my first post then you would understand that water baptism is part of the OLD Covenant John died before Jesus. It was John who himself baptized.

The New Covenant only came into effect after the death of Jesus Hebrews 9:15-18 "15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. "

The New Covenant didnt not take effect until Christ had died. So all that happened from the time Jesus was born upto the point that he died was the Old Covenant. John the Baptists ministry happened before Jesus died and as such was part of the Old Covenant, so was his baptism.

Jesus' name only became effective after his death not before. If you read Matthew 27 you will see many miraculous signs happened immediately after Jesus Death, when the New Covenant took Effect.

Now the only way to Enter into this new Covenant is via baptism by the Holy Spirit. Not with water.

Even though Testament means Covenant, it doesnt mean all the things that happened in the New Testament are part of the New Covenant. The New Covenant is a very specific thing, while the naming of the books of the bible from Matthew to Revelations is just that, naming.

Yes, its called the New Testament but dont use the name as an excuse to misunderstand scripture.

Its a known fact that the new covenant only took effect when Jesus died, but when we come to baptism it is a continuous thing after John.

I would not want to quote long scriptures, reason for I am using my phone and it will be a little difficult, but I just want u to explain how u understood Matthew 28:18-20. And as u at it explain also why the apostles baptized all the early xtian.

Pls avoid those ur analogies, it does not fit in at all.

Pastor Olu T:

Reading this post makes me wonder, "water baptism is of the old covenant and a ritual".

Water baptism is not even an old testament practice, I challenge you to quote one place from the old testament where water baptism was done?

Water baptism has little to do with repentance though, it is an open declaration of our faith to the cloud of witnesses both spiritual and physical, and also whereby we become part of the body of Christ physically and spiritually too. Not that we are not part of the body at salvation, we were, but it is done openly as we declare our faith to all.

Baptism is more than a mere ritual and important, and every xtian should endeavor to be 'cos the local church is God' delegated authority and He recognizes whatever is being done, according to His word though.

Why should a xtian not be baptized, except you don't have the opportunity? Going through the NT, it is very important and in fact Jesus commanded it Matthew 28:18-20. And just as Emusan said said in the op.

Pastor Olu T:

Its a known fact that the new covenant only took effect when Jesus died, but when we come to baptism it is a continuous thing after John.

I would not want to quote long scriptures, reason for I am using my phone and it will be a little difficult, but I just want u to explain how u understood Matthew 28:18-20. And as u at it explain also why the apostles baptized all the early xtian.

Pls avoid those ur analogies, it does not fit in at all.

Pastor you are goood at avoiding the truth.

You said "Water baptism is not even an old testament practice, I challenge you to quote one place from the old testament where water baptism was done?"


My Post in response to this Showed that water baptism is an Old Covenant practice. In fact my initial post showed this. You issued a challenge for me to show you how Water baptism is an Old Covenant practice. I quoted scripture proving this. But you cant provide scriptures, only excuses. The reason why you issued your challenge is because you didnt understand the workings of the Old and New Covenant, you have made no reference to the challenge you issued in your reply?

You have have just stated verbatim that "Its a known fact that the new covenant only took effect when Jesus died, but when we come to baptism it is a continuous thing after John."

If you knew this fact before my reply, you wouldnt have issued your challenge.

You are very ambiguous when you say baptism is continuous after John. Holy Spirit baptism only started after John had already died, so how is anything continuing? Water baptism didnt continue after John as it had fulfilled its purpose. I have not disagreed with Holy Spirit baptism in the New Covenant. So what exactly is your point?

Again Pastor if you read my very first post you will see how I understand Matthew 28 and why the apostles baptized early Christians. (Basically an instruction to baptize is given and its purpose was to enter into the New Covenant. Just like circumcision was how Jews entered into the Old Covenant)

With regard to my analogies, its just your opinion. (judging buy you failure to grasp certain things, I think you would benefit from them. In fact if you read Hebrews 9 which was in my response to you, Paul uses an analogy. In fact the bible is filled with them, they teach people to think practically.)