timothycel:


Pastor you are goood at avoiding the truth.

You said "Water baptism is not even an old testament practice, I challenge you to quote one place from the old testament where water baptism was done?"


My Post in response to this Showed that water baptism is an Old Covenant practice. In fact my initial post showed this. You issued a challenge for me to show you how Water baptism is an Old Covenant practice. I quoted scripture proving this. But you cant provide scriptures, only excuses. The reason why you issued your challenge is because you didnt understand the workings of the Old and New Covenant, you have made no reference to the challenge you issued in your reply?

You have have just stated verbatim that "Its a known fact that the new covenant only took effect when Jesus died, but when we come to baptism it is a continuous thing after John."

If you knew this fact before my reply, you wouldnt have issued your challenge.

You are very ambiguous when you say baptism is continuous after John. Holy Spirit baptism only started after John had already died, so how is anything continuing? Water baptism didnt continue after John as it had fulfilled its purpose. I have not disagreed with Holy Spirit baptism in the New Covenant. So what exactly is your point?

Again Pastor if you read my very first post you will see how I understand Matthew 28 and why the apostles baptized early Christians. (Basically an instruction to baptize is given and its purpose was to enter into the New Covenant. Just like circumcision was how Jews entered into the Old Covenant)

With regard to my analogies, its just your opinion. (judging buy you failure to grasp certain things, I think you would benefit from them. In fact if you read Hebrews 9 which was in my response to you, Paul uses an analogy. In fact the bible is filled with them, they teach people to think practically.)

Sound funny, u proved that its an old covenant practice, am i missing something?
U also said I do not know beforehand that the new covenant came into effect after the dead of Christ, hmm.

I leave the second 'cos its irrelevant trying to convince u, I am never changing my stance on the challenge for u made it sound as if baptism was part of the law. Kk let me make u realize this about John what u might know but fail to point out;

Though the dispensation of grace only came into effect after the death of Jesus, John was cut up between 2 dispensations. He was a forerunner of the new dispensation and preparing the hearts of men for that. There was nothing like water baptism before John which made me throw the challenge, it was new and Jesus Himself was baptized, never condemns the act and even COMMANDED THAT IT BE DONE.

Don't know where u got ur idea from that it is past, for this I demand scriptures. And the reason ur analogies does not fit, and not that i condemn analogy for I also use it, is 'cos u kept on comparing water baptism with circumcision, I just can't seem to understand this?

superior1:
■ Are you saying you only get born again when you received the Holy Ghost/water baptism?. Are there no people who haven't been baptised by both water and Holy Ghost and yet are born again?

To be Born of Water means being baptized into the New Covenant and Law, Jesus Christ, the new source of Living water for those who are born again. Water baptism, as explained by John the Baptist in Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11 & Luke 3 vs 2 - 18 & Mark 1 vs 1 - 8 symbolizes the transition from (complete abandonment) the Old Law of Moses in order to begin anew following God's New Law and Covenant in the Kingdom of God, God's New fountain of Living Water. John referred to it as the Baptism of repentance.

To be born of Spirit means to be born of the Spirit of Eternal Life, God's gift of Eternal Life which is granted to sinners who believe in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ in fact describes it as an actual possession of the individual by the Spirit in John 3 vs 8, and since the Spirit is Eternal Life itself, He remains with the individual 24/7 for eternity from that point on wielding power and control over the one He possesses (but not over their will).

Jesus Christ made clear that except a man is a born-again — born of water AND born of Spirit — He cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. So to answer your question, it is impossible to be born-again without both taking place.

timothycel:
■ 1. John only baptized Jews or people descended from the tribe of Israel.
2. John only baptized men, woman were never baptized by John.
3. It was John who baptized and not his disciples (Even though he had disciples)
4. After John was put in prison all water baptism stopped.
5. John did not leave his baptism to his disciples.
6. Johns baptism did not involve Jesus's name, it was just water but no name.
■ In light of the above six points how is water baptism relevant to you. Spirit baptism is supported by the following. Acts 1.5 "5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”" Jesus puts Johns Baptism in the past tense and says once the Holy Spirit has been sent by God baptism will be by the Holy Spirit.

But points 2 - 5(in bold) are majorly assumed and not in fact corroborated by any of what is in fact written in scripture. As for point 6, John the Baptist spoke to those he baptized of the one to come who would baptize them with the Holy spirit and with fire, and that one happens to be Jesus Christ, the Way, which John Preached, so clearly it can be said that John baptized the people in the name of the Way — Jesus Christ.

timothycel:
■ Nicodemus: What Jesus said to Nicodemus was true, that a person must be born by water and by spirit. But this was only true for Jews or Israelites . As John was sent to ready the way for Jesus, ie prepare the Jews for his coming. If you read about the purpose of Johns birth Luke 1 etc.
■ So for Jews it was necessary that they be baptized by John and repent because they had broken their Covenant with God (Old Covenant, which the Gentiles were not party to). Those Jews who refused Johns baptism by choice you will find are the very Jews who refused Jesus. If they had accepted John they would have accepted Jesus.
■ All this water baptism happened under the Old Covenant as Jesus was still alive and as such the New Covenant was yet to take effect. John died before Jesus and as such did not baptize anyone under the New Covenant.
■ Conclusion: How then does any person baptize another with water under the New Covenant given the above?
■ Aside from John no one was given power to baptize with water. Who claims to have been given this power today? And if they do, what is written about them in the Prophets?

1. Interesting!

2. I believe this is an assumption on your part since Jesus Christ and His disciples also went out baptizing just like John did— Jesus Christ did not baptize anyone Himself.

3. John was an Old Covenant man and his baptism was meant as a mark of the transition from the Old Fountain of Living Water — the old Law — to adopting fully/rebirth in the New Fountain of Living Water — God's New Covenant. Jesus Christ's disciples, even after adopting the New Covenant, also baptized people to mark the transition from the Old to the New just as John did. So, no, baptisms did not end with John, and they were never designed to end with John. John was simply the forerunner, and Jesus Christ and His disciples took over from John in continuing to preach the same Baptism of Repentance from the Old Law to the New Law.

4. The same exact way Jesus Christ taught us to do it when He proclaimed the same message of Repentance that John preached after He Himself was baptized.

5. John was the forerunner, however, Jesus Christ taught and commanded it as part of the New Covenant, and as such it became Law for those who wish to enter the Kingdom of God.

superior1:
■ John 6:40 says, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which SEETH the Son, and BELIEVETH on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
Believe - "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31
Believe- "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord Shall be saved."(Romans 10:13)
Believe- "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness..." (Romans 10:10).
Believe- But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:5 Believe.
What saves you (makes you a born again Christian) is believing and confessing Christ. Baptism is for believers in Christ who have given their lives to Him (born again) @OP, if you have any objection to this let me know before I continue

I am afraid this is a wrong approach to understanding scripture. The same person who asked that you believe — accept and obey — is equally the same who then went on to give you various other commandments. Now, if you only choose to follow some and not all of His commands, you get nothing from Him is what you should see. In the context of John 3 vs 1 - 21, it is the same Jesus Christ that explained that you must believe that also said you must be born-again — born of water and born of Spirit — in order to enter into the Kingdom of God. The same Jesus Christ, in John 6 vs 25 - 57 also said that if you do not eat His body and drink His blood you will not have real Life. And there are many other teachings that you are meant to combine together in obedience in order to obtain the promise He made you. Picking just one and running off with that amounts to shortchanging your own self.