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Christians Must Choose Between Apostle Paul And Jesus Christ - Femi Aribisala / What Apostle Paul Had To Say About Tithes And Other Heretic Teachings / Jesus Prophesied and Warned: Paul is False Prophet/Messiah (2) (3) (4)
Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by MostHigh: 12:51pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
This post is addressed to Goshen Shidedemi and drummaboy. I will make it short and simple. You have all been quite evasive over the issue of paul observing all jewish traditions and cultures as witnessed by scripture Not one of you have been able to defend your position when asked this question Shidedemi tried by propsing the vows taken by paul were from a different lifetime and that after his conversion he was compelled to complete it. I have kindly shown him his errors by stating acts 18:18 happend after his conversion. My question is.. 1. Can you tell me why you are quoting pauls words and only pauls words to fight against yashua AND NOT DOING AS PAUL DID? 2. And even after you have seen paul as a JUDAIZER as you put it why are you still raging and imagining a vain thing? AWAITING RESPONSES |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by PastorKun(m): 1:32pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
Acts 15:5-11 5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.” |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by Nobody: 1:54pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
Acts 21:21-26 -And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. 1 Like |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by Nobody: 2:01pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
Acts 24:14-17 - But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men. Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings. 1 Like |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by MostHigh: 2:44pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
Pastor Kun: Acts 15:5-11 You will always quote out of context Bidam thank you for putting it in the correct context You did not answer yes or no to paul being a judaizer but I will still respond to your post to point out your error 1. you are a gentile hence you are to recive salvation not directly but through another race (why would any christlike person confess to be a gentile?) 2. you belive that my telling you to obey the law is a heavy burden but this is only true because first you are a gentile an unbeliver If you had been a jew it would not be a burden it would have been to you for reproof and for instructions in rightouseness God is HOLY first, Rightousness is just an extension OF HIS DIVINE CHARACTER Without the LAW there would be no concept of [/b]RIGHTOUSNESS[/b] 1 Like |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by PastorKun(m): 2:48pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
^^^ Story!!! |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by MostHigh: 3:02pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
Bidam: IT IS QUITE UNFORTUNATE THAT NOT ALL CAN READ AND BE DIRECTLY INSPIRED AS YOU ARE The bolded is how the elders settled the whole palaver the problem caused by demanding the GENTILES adhere to one LAW was resolved by mutually agreeing they not be pressed to obey that particular law but DEMANDED THEY OBSERVE CERTAIN OTHER ORDINANCES IN LEVITICUS. JUDAIZERS! AS A SINGLE UNIT THEY ALL AGREED INCLUDING PAUL. AND I THINK GOSHEN SHOULD REALLY MEDITATE UPON THIS VERDICT GOSHEN AND HIS DESCIPLES ARE PARADING AS ELDERS BUT THEY DONT PASS JUDGEMENT AS ONE THEY ELDERS STILL HAD TO QUOTE FROM LEVITICUS TO SETTLE THE MATTER. JUDAIZERS! JUST AS YASHUA CONSTANTLY QUOTED FROM DEUTRONOMY FOR SOLUTIONS TO ALL QUESTIONS ASKED. JUDAIZER! THE SOLUTION IS ALWAYS WITHIN THE TORAH Lawlessness is death. You have been warned. |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by MostHigh: 3:03pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
Pastor Kun: ^^^ I hear you Goshen and his desciples. A lawless crew Pls answer the queshun about paul being a JUDAIZER. Or park one side jare |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by DrummaBoy(m): 6:43pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
Is there any further proof that Bidam and MostHigh are Judaizers, than this thread? I will answer ur question when power is restored here. |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by MostHigh: 9:03pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: Is there any further proof that Bidam and MostHigh are Judaizers, than this thread? Only Bidam and mosthigh? What about the master himself? Joker. I hope you will address the question head on and not be a grasshopper on this one. |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by Nobody: 11:18pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
what is a judaizer ? |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by MostHigh: 11:38pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
obadiah777: what is a judaizer ? Derogatory term. A Slur word Used for those that uphold the efficacy of the law It is nowhere found in scripture The council of Laodicea states in cannon 29: Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. Why did the members of a Heathen council consider Saturday worship a sin and even worthy of such punishment? Why were Saturday worshipers on the same level as heretics and enemies of the professed earthly church? Also, why would the professed earthly church state something that is in direct contrast with the ten commandments? Calling the Sabbath rest Judaizing is one thing, but then it says to do it on Sunday. 8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. Exodus 20:8-11 Dan 7:25 And he [the little horn] shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 1 Like |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by Nobody: 9:28am On Jul 31, 2013 |
MostHigh:very poignant and apt post sire especially the daniel 7 vs 25 reference. i believe i can add one more reference verse >>>>> revelation 20 v 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by MostHigh: 9:38am On Jul 31, 2013 |
obadiah777: very poignant and apt post sire especially the daniel 7 vs 25 reference. i believe i can add one more reference verse >>>>> Spot on Sire. |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by DrummaBoy(m): 12:15pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
@MostHigh You raised two questions and I will endeavor to answer them accordingly. : 1. Can you tell me why you are quoting Paul’s words and only Paul’s words to fight against Yashua and NOT DOING AS PAUL DID? 2. And even after you have seen Paul as a JUDAIZER, as you put it, why are you still raging and imagining vain things? I will answer your question under two topics: Dispensation and Paul was not a Judaizer. I have learnt on nairaland.com that rather than answer questions piecemeal, it would do one’s readers great good to do a thorough job at answering questions so as to silence any gainsayer that may arise and to make one’s position to be as clear as the noon day. So please endure the essay below in answering MostHigh prodding: |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by MostHigh: 12:19pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: @MostHigh I await. |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by DrummaBoy(m): 12:22pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
Answer to question 1: DISPENSATIONS John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Galatians 1: 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed… 15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. 18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. 19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. Galatians 2: 1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain I will not be treating dispensations in an exhaustive manner (my readers may refer to Google or other authorities on dispensation for better understanding on that doctrine) but simply to answer your query of why folks like us who preach a gospel of grace always quote Paul. It is simple. Jesus the Son of God had a purpose in coming to the earth, this purpose was to save man from his sins (Matthew 1:21) 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. To achieve this people he was brought to life through a woman and born to the lineage of David so as to fulfill the prophesy that he was to be called the Son of David. Born in the lineage of David made him a Jew in every aspect. This mission of saving man from his sin was to be fulfilled in two manners: 1. The one to save humanity must obey perfectly the good laws a righteous God had given His people. A law that the people never could keep. Jesus kept this law perfectly and fulfilled the righteous requirement of the law. That is why he could say he never came to destroy the law but to fulfill it. Jesus was born under the law and kept the law perfectly. 2. Those who will enjoy what Christ has done can only do so by be faith – an extension of God’s grace. Bible teachers call the period Jesus lived on earth in the flesh the Christocentric dispensation. This is if we divide the whole of time to three dispensations: the theocentric, the Christocentric and the eschatological dispensations. Under the Theocentric dispensation we have the age of the gentiles (the time of Abraham and his calling out to follow God) and the age of Isreal (mainly the time of Moses and afterwards); the Christocentric dispensation has the Hypostatic Union (the time Jesus lived in the flesh) and the Church age (from the moment of Christ ascension until the catching away of the church); the eschatological dispensation will include the time of tribulation and the Millennium. We are in the church age presently. Under the Christocentric dispensation, we have Jesus’ coming and the purpose of his coming: this period is termed the Hypostatic Union and it has the unique characteristic of being the only time in all dispensations that law and grace came into union. This was necessary so that Jesus could fulfill the law perfectly in one hand and grant the benefit of this fulfillment to men (you and me) in the church age who will come to Him by faith. Thus the scripture concludes that the law was given through Moses but grace and truth came with Jesus Christ (John 1: 17). The grace of God through Jesus is then extended to those of us in the church age. So there is no need for us to follow and keep the law anymore since it has been fulfilled in Christ; we only appropriate this fulfillment by faith in Him. Because Jesus lived in the time of the law and was to bring grace to the church, he could not preach the gospel of grace as revealed to Paul or it will nullify his purpose of coming to earth: to fulfill the law. So Jesus words are scripture and Paul encourages us to allow Christ words to dwell in our hearts richly (Colosians 3:16) but Jesus words must be seen in the context of which they were stated and thus the need for sound bible teachers to rightly divide the word of God, keeping to the truth of Scripture. The Christian is not again held bound by the law Jesus operated under and which he came to fulfill. Paul the apostle was chosen by God to be the harbinger of this unique gospel of grace. He made it clear in Galatians that this gospel was his gospel revealed to him by God and there was to be no other. This gospel is the message the church in the church age was to be built upon and it is no mere accident that Paul’s writing constitutes two-third of the New Testament: God providentially orchestrated this. So any sound Bible scholar must understand Paul; must preach Paul; all under the auspices of the Holy Spirit and ofcourse subject to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Paul in 1 Corinthinas 12 said that no man can say Jesus is Lord but by the Spirit of God; he was not just talking about mouthing such talk - anyone can do that. He was saying no one can preach Jesus the way he is doing it except the Spirit of God gives such a man utterance. That is the reason why I cannot be quoting Paul and be accused of fighting against Christ. The two are not congruent because there is no single passage in all of Paul’s epistle were he disparaged Christ. He exalted Jesus to the end and so do we. The reason why we quote Paul is because Paul had the message for the church age. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles like us and whatever he had to say was relevant to us. It makes sense to us state succinctly that if we preach and quote Paul, then we also do what Paul did. Thus leading me to answer the next question: Paul did not live subject to the law; Paul was not a Judaizer. |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by DrummaBoy(m): 12:24pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
Answer to question 2: Paul was not a Judaizer None of us was alive in the time of Paul and so are left to decipher how he really lived from what he wrote. The assumption is that he was a man of truth and was not writing one thing and living another thing. Permit me to quote what I had written on Paul on the other thread “Unveiling Modern Day Judaizers”: Paul the apostle can only be described as a remarkable man when we realize that he confronted Judaism both in the world and in the church. Jesus had given a brief remark on the kind of suffering this man’s ministry was going to encounter when he was speaking to Ananias at Paul’s conversion (Acts 9:15-16). |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by DrummaBoy(m): 12:27pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
continued...
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Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by DrummaBoy(m): 12:31pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
In extension to this I wish to add that Paul did not live as a Jew anymore after his conversion or better still, after his calling to preach the gospel of grace. Why do I put forward this position? Paul would never had had the moral ground to rebuke Peter for acting hypocritical if he himself was equally guilty. What was Peter guilty of? From the laws in the Torah, and as exemplified by the books of Ezra and Nehemiah, the Jews were not to have any dealing with Gentiles. God showed Peter in a vision in Acts 10 that this had changed. The implication was that Peter could go into a gentile’s house and minister to him. In reality one may conclude that Peter understood God’s message to him then in letter alone; having practiced Judaism for so long, it was difficult to put that vision into practice continually. So he arrives in Antioch and noticing that the believing Jews were not there (as in Jerusalem) he felt free to eat with the gentile Christians. The minute these Jews appeared he stopped eating with them; so much so that Barnabas too followed suit. Paul rebuked him. What this implies is that Paul was still eating with the gentiles. Hear Paul in Galatians 2: 11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. While every verse quoted above is worth expatiating on, notice what Paul says of Peter in verse 14: “I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?”. Paul is saying here that even Peter, at least while he was at Antioch, was living as a gentile. And it is also possible to posit from this scripture that Peter had always lives like a gentiles, at least after his grasp of the doctrine of grace. From Paul’s denunciation here we can posit rightly that PAUL HIMSELF LIVED LIKE A GENTILE. In chapter two he talks about some of this circumcision folks coming in to spy out their liberty in Christ: what was this liberty; the fact that they no longer lived as Jews but as gentiles. The truth of the matter we can deduce from this passage is that Paul lived the message he preached. He was sent to the gentiles and part of the message to the gentiles was that they needed not keep the Mosaic laws anymore to be saved; he preached that message and lived that message. Hear Paul again in the epistles to the Philippians: 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Here Paul reels out his Judaistic credentials but how does he sum it all up: dung – shit (excuse my language), that is the perfect expression for it. In Galatians he had called the law weak and beggarly but here he calls it dung! Why is this so? Because there are two righteousness he is discussing here: a righteousness by the law and a righteousness by faith in Christ. Comparing the two, one is but dung to the other. You cannot serve two masters: you cannot be pursuing a righteousness of the law and also that of faith; one has to go for the other. It is safe to say that Paul no longer lived as a Jew after his grasp of the doctrine of grace. The righteousness of the law, the life of Judaism, Pauls says here he has counted but loss for Christ sake. Now, MostHigh quotes a passage in Acts were it was said that Paul went to offer a vow at the instance of James and the other apostles. Acts 21:17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. He claims from this passage that Paul lived like a Jew. That passage is easy to explain with two verses found in 1 Corinthians 9: 19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; From this passage we can learn that Paul was free from pleasing men; he exercisedhis full liberty in Christ to live and preach the gospel of grace. But so as to win the Jews he lived like a Jew and subjected himself to the law. Jerusalem, at the time Paul visited, was in uproar. The allegation made against Paul that he taught men not to live under the law WAS TRUE. James and others’ suggestion was the sort of “wisdom” Paul had discussed about in the above passage. His main aim of going to Jerusalem, was to testify about Christ to the Jews, as he would later do to Ceasar, so that the Jews could have their very last warning from God to accept Christ or be overthrown (as it happened in AD 70). So Paul took up the vow and went into the temple to make the sacrifices, to be under the law, all in a bid to be acceptable to his people so that he could have the chance to tell them about Christ. Apparently, it did not work. But they got the testimony they needed to hear. And Jesus confirming this testimony stood by Paul subsequently and told him the same way he testified of him before the Jews, he was to do the same before Caesar (Acts 23:11). Any sound bible scholar will realize that the message of that section of Scripture was not that Paul lived like a Jew but simply that Paul did everything, including coming under the law, to witness to his people. Another example to buttress this point is Paul taking Timothy and circumcising him. He did this so that Timothy’s message before the Jews will not be rebuffed. But notice that he did not circumcise Titus (Galatains 2:3). So if Paul kept the law strictly, he would have circumcised Timothy and Titus but he did for one and not for the other. It is called walking in wisdom. From this few words of mine, I hope I have been able to convince you, MostHgh,s and not confuse you that Paul did not live subject to the law; Paul was not a Judaizer. Thank you for enduring the long essay. I am done for now. You may respond as you wish. |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by PastorKun(m): 2:31pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
^^^ @Drummaboy You sef suppose write book oh! |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by DrummaBoy(m): 2:53pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
@ Kun Wetin person go do now. Lol!!! I had to write all that to help this MostHigh chap but if after now he doesn't change. I leave him to himself 1 Like |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by MostHigh: 3:04pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: Answer to question 1: @ MOSTHIGH Basic pshychology says you are wrong. Its like saying that (verbal utterance is the same as physical action) Wrong too much room for error there In scripture it is written YOU CAN BE EXACTLY AS YOUR MASTER IS BUT NOT GREATER. YOU MR MAN ARE STRIVING TO BE GREATER FINALLY SOME VERSES TO CONFIRM TO YOU THAT PAUL IS A PPROPER JUDAIZER AS YOU PUT IT 1. Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: it dosent get any clearer than the bolded 2.Acts 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs. Act 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee spoken by goshen and his crew , are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Finally Act 21:26 ¶ Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them [/b]entered into the [b]temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. Act 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him, And there you have it PAUL THE JUDAIZER 1 Like |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by MostHigh: 3:19pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
Pastor Kun: ^^^ This is the MO of the lawless ones. 1. Grasshopping as ola puts it. 2. Mental constipation caused by greek speaking like above (too much takl) 3.Evasive manouvers like goshen and shidedemi being glaringly absent from this discussion. Drummaboy nice try but...... |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by JesusisLord85: 4:45pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
Pastor Kun: Acts 15:5-11 If I had a £ for each time I saw this passage misquoted, I would be a multi millionaire. Remove that 'Pastor' from your name 1 Like |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by JesusisLord85: 4:49pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
MostHigh: This post is addressed to Goshen Shidedemi and drummaboy. That is rather interesting because shdemidemi's position used to be (or still is, depending on who he is engaging) that Jews must still observe the law, and gentile converts (aka Christians) do not have to. Part of his whole 2-gospel folly. I wonder what shdemidemi calls a Jew who believes in Christ. Surely they can't be Jews, because, according to them, Jesus came to tear down Judaism. Oh my, I'm laughing so hard. 1 Like |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by PastorKun(m): 4:51pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
JesusisLord85: Olodo why don't you then quote it properly if you think you know better. |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by MostHigh: 4:54pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
Pastor Kun: Pastor pastor Stop being a Lawless Man. |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by JesusisLord85: 4:56pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
Pastor Kun: verse 11 shows you the context: " No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." They were saying you must observe the law FIRST in order to be saved. It takes a year or more to fully convert to Judaism. Thse guys wanted them to pass through the usual rights, but now, through Christ, you are saved by faith and are a convert {to the religion of the Jews if you will, NOT some new religion called Christianity}. Notice what else James says: 19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” In other words, let them come to the faith. They will learn the rest (the law) as they attend synagogue every sabbath day. You see. Judaizers all the way. Stop reading bible back to front. |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by PastorKun(m): 5:04pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
JesusisLord85: |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by shdemidemi(m): 5:15pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: @ Kun You did a great job here bro. God bless you. As for the judaisers, I hail you lot as well. |
Re: Apostle Paul Is A Judaizer by JesusisLord85: 5:18pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
Pastor Kun: vs 20, the things he told them to observe. Where did James get that from? Torah of course. In other words, they must obey these as a matter of urgency. They can learn the rest of the law as they attend the synagogue each sabbath. Observing the law, NOT saved by the law. We don't observe it because we believe we are saved by it, we do it because those are God's instructions to his people, and we want to please him. John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments." What do you make of this? Acts 21: When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.” Again, they kept the law. Paul's letter requires a decent knwoledge of the Torah in order to understand it, along with context. Shalom 1 Like |
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