People say,human being cannot be perfect but God says be ye perfect(mat. 5:48).There is no choice in this matter,the standard of God remaineth sure(2Tim 2:19).
So you either live holy and perfect to be rapturable or continue in your sin and go to hell.But I tell you hell is not a palatable place.

Please surrender your life to Jesus be totally free from sin so that we can all rejoice in heaven.Be ye holy!

@OP, are you perfect?
*edited*
How did this make front page? The topic on the front page should have been a question not a statement.
This is what i would say. Perfection is not just a state but a process. We do not get perfect to be saved. Thats wrong. We believe and accept the finished work of Christ on the cross to be saved.
No Christian is yet perfect so to say. But we are growing into perfection.
Therefore, your making heaven is not a product of your striving to be perfect but you believing in Jesus.

idnoble135: @OP, are you perfect?

As u answer this, I will also like to know what ur definition of perfection is?

peaz4al: People say,human being cannot be perfect but God says be ye perfect(mat. 5:48).There is no choice in this matter,the standard of God remaineth sure(2Tim 2:19).So you either live holy and perfect to be rapturable or continue in your sin and go to hell.But I tell you hell is not a palatable place.Please surrender your life to Jesus be totally free from sin so that we can all rejoice in heaven.Be ye holy!

Pastor Olu T:

As u answer this, I will also like to know what ur definition of perfection is?

Pastor Olu, what is your own definition of perfection. Because if it is similar to what the OP defined, no one will get to heaven

I disagree with the OP. While the scriptures he used are indisputably true, they are taken out of context.The bible makes it abundantly clear that there is a righteousness of God that comes to Christians when we place faith in Jesus. This is gospel perfection. Romans 1:16-17 this righteousness is from faith to faith; every step of our walk with God demands that we cast our hope of perfection on his righteousness, alone. That is gospel perfection. To do otherwise is foolishness , Galatians 3:1.

Every tendency to make Christians think that they can attain some perfection here on earth by some self effort, outside Christ, is to preach a legalistic gospel that undermines the very power of sin that Christ came to destroy. It is because we do not know what sin is that we talk glibly about perfection. The Spirit that claims that he is perfect or is seeking perfection by human effort is a self righteous spirit and that in itself is SIN.

Nonetheless, upon Christ perfection which we trust, we are enjoined to live holy and walk in love; that is all the duty expected of believers.

I repeat if anyone thinks his righteousness or perfection will earn him heaven that person is trusting in self and will be damned at the end.

To add to what drummaboy rightly explained-

The only man that lived perfect was Jesus, no other man can or would. If you do anything in the energy of the flesh, Christ shall profit you nothing, we can only believe and trust in the finished work of the cross for the imputation of righteousness.

Gal 5

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law (or doing something in the energy of the flesh. Then Paul says); ye are fallen from grace.


Anyone that believe the gospel of Christ has the spirit of God in him, if you have the Spirit of God you shall be led by the Spirit.
Romans 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Most of Christendom today feels that if you do everything right, if you can hang on, if this, and if that, you might make it. But this Book never says that. This Book says that today you are in one of two categories. You are either lost, and hell bound, or you're saved and heaven bound. It's that simple. This is what The Book declares There are only two classes of people in the world, you're either in Christ or you're not, there is no half way in-between.


Romans 8:15

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, `Abba, Father.'"


The moment we're saved, yes, we're born into the family of God, immediately God places us as the full heir with Jesus Christ. The Christian life does involve discipline, but you're not going to give things up that you just love to do because the things you once loved you now hate and vice versa. So it's not a matter of giving it up, it's just a matter of having a change of appetites which can only come through studying the Word.

Isaiah 1;2;3;4 and 5 we see the holy prophet proclaiming woe is this, woe is that.

In chapter 6, when he sees the Lord and his awesome holiness: Isaiah says WOE IS ME!

May God grant that we see our sins as he sees them; in God's holiness, then we would stop this foolish talk of perfection and begin seeking a perfection beyond us: Christ's perfect righteousness.

Thanks Demi for concurring with me: this kind of talk is the outcome of OLAADEGBU false visions of heaven and hell. All those visions succeed in doing is to create the kind of mentality in the OP.

@ D'boy & S'demi & PastorT,

You all know some of our brothers don't like FREE GIFT (of and from God) that is based on the IT IS FINISHED WORKS OF CHRIST; they want to WORK FOR THEIR OWN SALVATION; THEY WANT TO WORK OUT THEIR OWN SALVATION and like people of the law before Grace came through Christ, they like to ALWAYS DO SOMETHING for God not realizing God had already done everything for them, just inviting them to the banquet to just show up in FAITH! Therefore it is written, without faith, it is impossible to please God.

^ The only thing remaining for me these days is to begin to establish doctrines from every verses of scriptures in the Apostolic revelation of the finished works of Christ. Every Apostolic epistles are full of doctrines that revealed the finished works of our LORD.

Goshen360: ^ The only thing remaining for me these days is to begin to establish doctrines from every verses of scriptures in the Apostolic revelation of the finished works of Christ. Every Apostolic epistles are full of doctrines that revealed the finished works of our LORD.

@ the bold insertions, you can't be more right. The more I look, the more I see bro.

Hey beloved, ^

What they are doing in all of those epistles is REVEALING what is already done. The perfection that the OP quoted, check it, it was BEFORE the LORD said it is FINISHED on the Cross. After the cross, check what is being taught by the Apostles: Look at these scriptures,

King James Bible
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Colossians 1:28

KJV has it "perfect in Christ" but other says "mature in Christ". Either way, it is only "in Christ" that we are perfect.

King James Bible
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Hebrews 13:21

no one is going to heaven FYI

We will inherit a new heaven and earth.

Good Night all.

frosbel: no one is going to heaven FYI

We will inherit a new heaven and earth.

Good Night all.

What place did Christ say he was going to prepare for us?

^ Abeg leaf frosbel make he no derail this nice thread joor. Make I give the OP one scripture and follow up with questions. Okay, I will give two scriptures make them no say I dey establish doctrine on just one scripture. Make I go ahead?

shdemidemi:

What place did Christ say he was going to prepare for us?

Jesus is coming to reign as King on a newly renovated heaven and earth , and this is what he has prepared for those who love him.

The meek will inherit the ..........................?

frosbel:

Jesus is coming to reign as King on a newly renovated heaven and earth , and this is what he has prepared for those who love him.

The meek will inherit the ..........................?

No one is disputing that, where would you put the passage below in your account

I Thessalonians 4:13-18

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (have died), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (go ahead of) them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Goshen360: ^ Abeg leaf frosbel make he no derail this nice thread joor. Make I give the OP one scripture and follow up with questions. Okay, I will give two scriptures make them no say I dey establish doctrine on just one scripture. Make I go ahead?

Go ahead bro

shdemidemi:

No one is disputing that, where would you put the passage below in your account

I Thessalonians 4:13-18

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (have died), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (go ahead of) them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

In perfect alignment with my previous statement.

shdemidemi:

Go ahead bro

Okay, na you say make I go ahead o. I no want trouble from the OP o...

@OP,

New International Version
And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

New Living Translation
And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is useless and you are still guilty of your sins.

King James Bible
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1 Corinthians 15:17

New International Version
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

New Living Translation
He was handed over to die because of our sins, and he was raised to life to make us right with God.

English Standard Version
who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

New American Standard Bible
He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

King James Bible
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 4:25

Question from #1 scripture:

1. Has Christ risen?

2. Are you still in your sins?

Question from #2 scripture:

1. What did Christ died for?

2. What are you justified from?

Please, don't answer o. These questions are meant for the OP.

frosbel:


In perfect alignment with my previous statement.

Explain pls

Goshen360: Hey beloved, ^

What they are doing in all of those epistles is REVEALING what is already done. The perfection that the OP quoted, check it, it was BEFORE the LORD said it is FINISHED on the Cross. After the cross, check what is being taught by the Apostles: Look at these scriptures,

King James Bible
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Colossians 1:28

KJV has it "perfect in Christ" but other says "mature in Christ". Either way, it is only "in Christ" that we are perfect.

King James Bible
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Hebrews 13:21

Herein the OP has the answer to his question.

frosbel: no one is going to heaven FYI

We will inherit a new heaven and earth.

Good Night all.

shdemidemi:

No one is disputing that, where would you put the passage below in your account

I Thessalonians 4:13-18

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (have died), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (go ahead of) them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Whether heaven o; or earth O... the kingdom we shall inherit as saints of God after this life shall be on Jesus Christ merit and his merit alone, and not on human perfection/merit! I think that is what the OP needs to hear Frosbel and Demi... no derailization here; ok. LOL!!!

@ drummaboy

Don't mind Frosbel, the man seem to be walking deeper in to the east. Thanks for bringing us back to pertinent issues as regards this thread.

@ Goshen and @drummaboy
One more thing, please answer the @meilyn's post if you would. I said this because I would answer it from the angle of dispensation and mysteries revealed to Paul, how would you answer it.

Demi, I look fwd to your take on the verse but the verse does not in any way say that we would be saved by our works.

What scripture tells us is that we are saved by grace but will be rewarded based on what we do subsequently. 1 Corinthians 3.

Jesus is the foundation, our works is what we build with. If U claim to build without a foundation, U will be damned. So saved by grace, Yes. But rewarded by work; says the bible.

@Shdemidemi

Rev 21:1-2, 24
And i saw a new heaven and a new earth,... 2 then i, john, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
24 And the nations of those who who are save shall walk in it light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honour into it.

Do they teach these things in our churchs? Haha! See our capital no dey for heaven. I hope this helps.

Will our brother who are still judaisers see that we are perfect in Christ?

Drummerboy n co

Obviously this is what the scriptures teaches, but i want us all to look at it from the angle of practical xtian living. I believe this is the reason for the thread, n also for new converts too just growing in Christ.
Many believes that those that emphasize grace encourages freedom to sin, just like it was told Paul that we might sin that grace should abound. We are not saved by our good works, but rather we are saved which is why we do good works.

Coming to the issue of perfection, we are already perfect in Christ and not 'cos of what we did it was imputed into us. But when we talk about literal perfection, for no one can attain that, but what the bible teaches is measuring to the stature of the fullness of Christ (unto a matured man) Ephesians 4:13.

When we gave our lives to Christ we all started out as a baby, and it is expected of us to grow up to maturity. This is where the problem lies with most xtians, they remain baby even after years of receiving salvation, Galatian 4:1 becomes relevant.

God is not measuring our perfection for He already sees us as being perfect, but He looks at our growth. As we grow we get better by the day, not that we try to attain perfection but grow to the stature of the fullness of Christ. He expects us to grow daily to the measures of the stature of the fullness of Christ, but when we don't this is where have problem.

This is what God looks out for in us, and the good thing is that 'cos of His spirit in us and grace, we are more than able to represent Christ to the fullest and grow to the measure of His fullness.

Thanks @Drummaboy n @Ghoshen for wonderful, very true n to the OP I've only one thing to say, Christ is our perfection (I'm complete in Him).

Pastor Olu, we are on the same page as far as what you wrote is concerned and you have earned my "like" there. In addition to what you wrote let me quote this scripture:

Hebrew 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein

I did not learn this verse myself; I saw it explained by an Anglican vicar as he discussed sound doctrine in his book Bedrock, I mean David Prior (not popular abi). He showed in that discuss that God wants to strengthen believers in the heart by grace and not by meat, etc (the keeping of the law). From that discuss I am convinced that believers are to understand the grace of God as exemplified by the gospel and that this, rather than lead them to lawlessness, leads them to love and serve God the more. This is in stark contrast to those who think that they can bring believers to maturity by the rules and regulations they put down to order their lives. In the physical they may seem to have attained maturity (perfection) but the days to come will reveal that such laws don't bring anyone to maturity.

The gospel, well understood, strengthens the heart, and leads believers to love and serve God, while His Spirit brings through the process of maturity and perfection. That, my brother, is gospel perfection - Grace at heart!

It took you sometimes to respond. I guess you were busy at church; hope church service was good.

Cheers!!!

Pastor Olu T: Drummerboy n co

Obviously this is what the scriptures teaches, but i want us all to look at it from the angle of practical xtian living. I believe this is the reason for the thread, n also for new converts too just growing in Christ.
Many believes that those that emphasize grace encourages freedom to sin, just like it was told Paul that we might sin that grace should abound. We are not saved by our good works, but rather we are saved which is why we do good works.

Coming to the issue of perfection, we are already perfect in Christ and not 'cos of what we did it was imputed into us. But when we talk about literal perfection, for no one can attain that, but what the bible teaches is measuring to the stature of the fullness of Christ (unto a matured man) Ephesians 4:13.

When we gave our lives to Christ we all started out as a baby, and it is expected of us to grow up to maturity. This is where the problem lies with most xtians, they remain baby even after years of receiving salvation, Galatian 4:1 becomes relevant.

God is not measuring our perfection for He already sees us as being perfect, but He looks at our growth. As we grow we get better by the day, not that we try to attain perfection but grow to the stature of the fullness of Christ. He expects us to grow daily to the measures of the stature of the fullness of Christ, but when we don't this is where have problem.

This is what God looks out for in us, and the good thing is that 'cos of His spirit in us and grace, we are more than able to represent Christ to the fullest and grow to the measure of His fullness.

This is pure slavery!

DrummaBoy: Pastor Olu, we are on the same page as far as what you wrote is concerned and you have earned my "like" there. In addition to what you wrote let me quote this scripture:

[color=#000099][/color]

I did not learn this verse myself; I saw it explained by an Anglican vicar as he discussed sound doctrine in his book Bedrock, I mean David Prior (not popular abi). He showed in that discuss that God wants to strengthen believers in the heart by grace and not by meat, etc (the keeping of the law). From that discuss I am convinced that believers are to understand the grace of God as exemplified by the gospel and that this, rather than lead them to lawlessness, leads them to love and serve God the more. This is in stark contrast to those who think that they can bring believers to maturity by the rules and regulations they put down to order their lives. In the physical they may seem to have attained maturity (perfection) but the days to come will reveal that such laws don't bring anyone to maturity.

The gospel, well understood, strengthens the heart, and leads believers to love and serve God, while His Spirit brings through the process of maturity and perfection. That, my brother, is gospel perfection - Grace at heart!

It took you sometimes to respond. I guess you were busy at church; hope church service was good.

Cheers!!!

Not really busy, but all is good bro. Strengthened by grace all the way.

ifeness:

This is pure slavery!

Can't understand bro, the message of the cross is foolishness to them that are perishing.
Its like trying to explain how the internet works to an ant.

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