bidexiii:



I for happy ..

That's the rumor bro.

shadowprimezero:


Turkey struggled to export to the Philippines due to export regulations on the US made engine and also failed to export to Pakistan for the above reason. TAI is currently in talks to shift engine production to Ukraine for the T-129 ATAK II. If the rumors are true, NAF has a lot of hoops to jump through to get those birds.

So you now finally agree Turkey is not a reliable defence partner.

kabe1:


So you now finally agree Turkey is not a reliable defence partner.

Far from it. I still think Turkey is the future. They strike the sweet spot between cost, quality, and tech. From armored vehicles, missile technology, EW capabilities, naval shipbuilding and of course drones. They'd be an ideal defence partner especially on joint projects. They of course still have a long way to go.

kabe1:
There are some very wild reports suggesting Nigerian Air Force is getting 6 x units of T-129 Attack Helicopter.

This one flares up at regular intervals; certainly as long as I've been lurking here.

shadowprimezero:


Far from it. I still think Turkey is the future. They strike the sweet spot between cost, quality, and tech. From armored vehicles, missile technology, EW capabilities, naval shipbuilding and of course drones. They'd be an ideal defence partner especially on joint projects. They of course still have a long way to go.

I like your optimism, but I don't see Turkey as a major defence player.

They don't have the tech unlike the Chinese to go it alone, and more importantly the US would not allow Turkey grow to a point where they become a threat to US own exports.

Lurker4Long:

This one flares up at regular intervals; certainly as long as I've been lurking here.

Nigeria recently realised almost 2 billion dollars for weapons purchase with the air force getting nearly 1 billion dollars.

Although the description in the supplementary budget is vague, the Air Force did indicate purchase of new aircrafts as a requirement.

What that is, is left for speculation, but with the need for day & night attack helicopters, defence enthusiasts can only but speculate.

Lurker4Long:


Based on the Technical Assessment, no need for fighter jets.
My own quibbles are:
1) the number of transport helicopters and UAVs is inadequate. Cabo Delgado province is too vast for the numbers provided;

2) I fear they've underestimated the logistics requirements. 3x C130 (2 SAAF & 1 BDF) and 1 Angolan il-76 may not be enough. As it is, SAS Drakensberg is being readied to ship some equipment and supplies to Pemba port.

I think the South-African deployment is rather light, especially taking into account ratio to population and size of the SANDF.

If Cabo Delgado is vast, then there is a requirement for Fighter jets. Helicopters fill in a niche role, but if you taken into account some of the experiences in Nigeria you'll see that a fast jet is an important asset to have.

Is SADC not planning to carry out Air Interdiction in Mozambique?

SADC lift capacity may not be enough, but I think it is adequate for this early stage of operations. Besides where would additional lift capacity come from?

kabe1:


Nigeria recently realised almost 2 billion dollars for weapons purchase with the air force getting nearly 1 billion dollars.

Although the description in the supplementary budget is vague, the Air Force did indicate purchase of new aircrafts as a requirement.

What that is, is left for speculation, but with the need for day & night attack helicopters, defence enthusiasts can only but speculate.

It is very unlikely to happen.
Most likely started by Peeps who wanted to get Nigeria in a Military partnership with Turkey
Pakistan has yet to have its order on its Helicopters completed.

Most likely scenario Nigeria gets the waiver from the USA and gets the remaining 6 MI35s from Russia.
Or just like Pakistan did recently buy the Seakings from Qatar via the US
I could also foresee a situation where the NAF buys the Fully Armed version of the Augusta AW-139 that would make a lot more sense and practicality.

kabe1:




They don't have the tech unlike the Chinese to go it alone, and more importantly the US would not allow Turkey grow to a point where they become a threat to US own exports.

Bro, that's literally what's happening right now. Turkey is taking the drone market with traditional US customers such as Morocco, Ukraine, Tunisia and NATO Poland, with many other countries currently in talks.

The US for sure didn't envision that when they refused to sell Turkey Predator drones 15 years ago. Thats how we ended up here. You think the US is happy with the TB-2's combat performance and current market potential, especially given the semi- arms embargo on Turkey?

Nigeria

shadowprimezero:


Bro, that's literally what's happening right now. Turkey is taking the drone market with traditional US customers such as Morocco, Ukraine, Tunisia and NATO Poland, with many other countries currently in talks.

The US for sure didn't envision that when they refused to sell Turkey Predator drones 15 years ago. Thats how we ended up here. You think the US is happy with the TB-2's combat performance and current market potential, especially given the semi- arms embargo on Turkey?

The US really doesn't sell drones man.

China and Israel are the world's largest drone exporters, then followed by Turkey.

Secondly there's nothing like Turkish technology, they depend very heavily on imports from Europe, America & Canada, South-Korea, South-Africa and Israel.

shadowprimezero:


Bro, that's literally what's happening right now. Turkey is taking the drone market with traditional US customers such as Morocco, Ukraine, Tunisia and NATO Poland, with many other countries currently in talks.

The US for sure didn't envision that when they refused to sell Turkey Predator drones 15 years ago. Thats how we ended up here. You think the US is happy with the TB-2's combat performance and current market potential, especially given the semi- arms embargo on Turkey?

Bro, the T-B2 is even more American than Turkish.

kabe1:


I think the South-African deployment is rather light, especially taking into account ratio to population and size of the SANDF.

If Cabo Delgado is vast, then there is a requirement for Fighter jets. Helicopters fill in a niche role, but if you taken into account some of the experiences in Nigeria you'll see that a fast jet is an important asset to have.

Is SADC not planning to carry out Air Interdiction in Mozambique?

SADC lift capacity may not be enough, but I think it is adequate for this early stage of operations. Besides where would additional lift capacity come from?

1) We're sending 1500 pax, which is a reinforced battalion battle group with Mambas, Casspirs, a heavy weapons company, 2 Rooivalk, 3 Oryx, and possibly a troop of Rooikats. Define light;

2) M23, a far more formidable, experienced and professional outfit, was decimated in the vast jungles and hills of the DRC east without fighter jets;

3) SA, Zim, Angola have all developed doctrine on how to successfully prosecute these kinds of bush wars;

4) Plenty IL-76s and Antonov's available for charter, which could be funded jointly, as the SADC Standby Brigade's plans envisaged. Referring to SA specifically, we're lucky to be able to use air, road and sea, but we've bound to run into problems with the first 2:
- air: our c130s already fly to the DRC twice a week;
- road: 2600km to Pemba on regular supply runs is not feasible.

Far more efficient and cost effective is the sea route from the SA ports of Durban/ Richards Bay to Pemba. Alas, this option is currently under-utilised at the moment.

Of course, if Mozambique had maintained their rail network, SA, Zim and Botswana logistics would be a cinch.

Lurker4Long:


1) We're sending 1500 pax, which is a reinforced battalion battle group with Mambas, Casspirs, a heavy weapons company, 2 Rooivalk, 3 Oryx, and possibly a troop of Rooikats. Define light;

This is not bad.

kabe1:


Bro, the T-B2 is even more American than Turkish.

Lots of the components, especially the optics have long been swapped out for domestically manufactured ones and also I don't think there's a single defence article in the world with 100% of the components from the country of origin. This isn't a very valid argument.

shadowprimezero:


Lots of the components, especially the optics have long been swapped out for domestically manufactured ones and also I don't think there's a single defence article in the world with 100% of the components from the country of origin. This isn't a very valid argument.

Guy leave matter for Mattias!!!

We are discussing African content.

SANDF technical armed with a ZSU-23-2 gun heading to Mozambique

shadowprimezero:


Turkey struggled to export to the Philippines due to export regulations on the US made engine and also failed to export to Pakistan for the above reason. TAI is currently in talks to shift engine production to Ukraine for the T-129 ATAK II. If the rumors are true, NAF has a lot of hoops to jump through to get those birds.

Yes there are US component makers or spare suppliers or banks involved in T-129. Nigeria can however get waivers quite easily from the US government because of the sheer enormity of its security problems. It is a two-year procurement cycle at best and that is why US AH1 is still the best option.

kabe1:


I like your optimism, but I don't see Turkey as a major defence player.

They don't have the tech unlike the Chinese to go it alone, [/b]and more importantly the US would not allow Turkey grow to a point where they become a threat to US own exports[b]

I disagree with the bolded, why would the US not allow them to grow to such height. I don't believe in all these super powers, if China can do it then any country can also do it.
Who believe that after the breakup of the Soviet Union, Russia would still be a powerful nation.

kabe1:
SANDF technical armed with a ZSU-23-2 gun heading to Mozambique

Nah wah ooo, you can see through objects? Xrays vision, Mr superman

bidexiii:



I disagree with the bolded, why would the US not allow them to grow to such height. I don't believe in all these super powers, if China can do it then any country can also do it.
Who believe that after the breakup of the Soviet Union, Russia would still be a powerful nation.

China has always been a super power. Remember they are one of the 5 permanent UN security council members.

1 of 5 victorious from world war 2.

Same as Russia.

kabe1:
SANDF technical armed with a ZSU-23-2 gun heading to Mozambique

Err...no. Try again.
For reference, the only ZSU-23-2 guns in SANDF service are used thus:

Lurker4Long:

Err...no. Try again.
For reference, the only ZSU-23-2 guns in SANDF service are used thus:

Bro, when I post comments here, always have it at the back of your mind that I have proof to support my post.

Coolliot:


Nah wah ooo, you can see through objects? Xrays vision, Mr superman

Always have it at the back of your mind that I don't usually post comments for posting sake.

I have proof to back it up.

its also used by the l15

Rwandan soldiers and police patrol areas in Cabo Delgado province, Mozambique

kabe1:


Bro, when I post comments here, always have it at the back of your mind that I have proof to support my post.

Yes, like the "soldier being robbed" fake story you gleefully posted here.

Anyway, with this I happily take back my skeptical comment. A mate at CSIR confirms it's one of their projects for SF. Apparently they've reinforced the suspension to handle the recoil.

kabe1:
Rwandan soldiers and police patrol areas in Cabo Delgado province, Mozambique

I'd love to know what aircraft the Rwandans chartered to fly that Ratel to Moz. Been monitoring Flightradar for Kigali-Pemba flights and haven't seen anything big enough to take Ratels.

Lurker4Long:

- road: 2600km to Pemba on regular supply runs is not feasible.

Of course, if Mozambique had maintained their rail network, SA, Zim and Botswana logistics would be a cinch.

And my fears re logistics/sustainment by road are realised. RIP to the soldier.

A Tanzanian Air Force Shaanxi Y-8 in Pemba, Mozambique as Tanzania begins its deployment.

Lurker4Long:

Yes, like the "soldier being robbed" fake story you gleefully posted here.

Anyway, with this I happily take back my skeptical comment. A mate at CSIR confirms it's one of their projects for SF. Apparently they've reinforced the suspension to handle the recoil.

Well, if you remember correctly, I went back and edited that post to the correct caption at the time.

You can look it up to confirm.

Again whatever works well for a country's military is up to top echelon to decide, not anyone here browsing on Nairaland.com

We can only speculate and discuss decisions. We are not policy makers.