FOLYKAZE:

Right now, I agree you just an old silly man. Did I insult you in any of my post?

You agree to drop some money but has Ghostsparta accept this? Has he been proving wrong or right? Then why your ranting because of a video?

You need to grow up man. If you think you can rant your stupidity because you wanna drop something which you have not dropped and yet not with outcome you dropping this for, so why the quick idiotic manner you showing off?

#Nitwit

ermm, you asked for it. Ghostsparta hasn't responded to me yet. You are the one acting like "oyakhilome". Somebody posted a video that had nothing to do with Ghostsparta and i responded to the video. What is your own. Don't let me start with you oo. Do you have reading problems? Did i say anything about Ghostsparta in my previous post. Guy take time oooo

jayriginal: This is bewildering at the very least.

You do need to be a marksman to hit a target. No one is saying that just because you are not a trained marksman, it is impossible to hit a target. You can hit a target by luck or if the range is point blank. People get hit by strays all the time.

Let me ask you. Why do you think people prefer to use sawed off double barrels knowing fully well that it is illegal? Its because the bullets from a sawed off spread and all you need to do is generally point in the direction of your target and it is almost sure to get hit. Unfortunately, other things in that direction will also get hit. Sawed offs dont provide accuracy, they provide radius.

I doubt you have ever fired a gun from the way you are talking. Heck even a catapult is difficult to aim without practice.

Oh and if you shoot into a crowd, its likely someone will get hit. That is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about aiming at a specific target. Forget the movies you have been watching.

Ogbeni are we discussing firearms here? What's your point^^^? I haven't cited any movies, even so, are you telling me that marksmans movies like Enemy At The Gate isn't to a large extent factual? Okay let me put it this way...anybody can shoot at a large human target in LONG CLOSE RANGE and in this context those with APB who gets hit always felt it depending on the type their body is rendered with. There's the type that deflects the course of the bullet, the type thats drastically retards the velocity of the incoming bullet projectile thereby imapct would be non-lethal(my theory), the type that it is he who fires it that receives the bullet injury!(explain that A-town), the type that when you fire it jams and back fires!, the type that when you fire it water comes out (unconfirmed), and they all have their distinct names and versions/variants, what counteracts them, and what counteract the counteracters and so on.

New Alfa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ochyXJe-KVc

This is how the gullible like the op are deceived.

First of all I am not gullible. You, A-Town and the rest of all disbeliever in African supernatural powers need to start BELIEVING in the advanced sciences of our ancient black scientists, that your mindsets which have been carved to find it delectable to subject everything under the purview of white man's science should not be completely suspended but to see how it can proffer explanation to MAREVELOUS things you're yet to see.

That video which I have seen before in the course of my research in African paranormal is as old as any T-34 tank and regardless of the questionable feats exhibited in that video I still aver that there exist African supernatural powers, especially those of the Yorubas. Very long time ago, I posted that particular video to those atheists at Atheist Republic and one of them replied with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlg-CtJDAGI as reply to disprove it.

If not for your uncouthness and the fact that this is a public forum I would have told you to try out a Yoruba Advanced Science which require some newly born cubs from a female dog, a ring, and water just to remove your disbelieve. This particular YAS is a type I classify under the OFFENSIVES in my book, and I know if the western world were to know about it, they wouldn't only weaponize it, they'd try to see if they can squeeze every juice out of it workings.

My brother, tell me how does someone walk through a wall directly which I have seen. How can you explain a masquerade crossing a river without rowing through it or passing the other way round through the bank in front of everybody. How can you explain the diversion, halting and stopping of rain, also the inducement of rain and wind. I am proud of my ancient ancestors for all these powers and many I have seen, the question is why didn't they use and collect all these powers together, use it to defend themselves from Europeans and Arabs invaders, defeats them, chased them back to their lands, invade their lands, conquer them and enslave them? The answer is very simple.

1. We are not war-mongers like the Scandinavians, Conquistadors, Celts, Mongols, Saxons, Romans, Greeks, Arabs, Gauls, Asians etc.
2. Our ancient superscientists (agbas, babalawos and oniseguns etc) kept this esoteric knowledge so restrictively because if everyone were to know about them, well aside from the certainty that we'd use them to protect our selves collectively from external invaders, it's also certain that there would be less than a million people existing in this world today. I know what I am saying...if those knowledge had become common among us, 98% will neglect the ones that are either neutral or beneficial, they would be attracted to those powers that are too destructive.

Those among our ancestors who knew about these esoteric knowledges, knowledges capable of tremendous powers such as to vanish, change shape, travel great distance in short time, super-advanced telephony and so many more that I shall be documenting in the book: Why I Am Not Yet An Atheist: Enter YAS. Of recently I just confirmed that the Yorubas still have the esoteric knowledge on how to make incendiaries beyond what Chemistry can decipher and ofcourse anti-explosives such as grenade bombs.

I know it is silly and improper of me to be making all this claims on behalf of the Yorubas and Igbos without any proof to back up. I know the burden of proof is on me or any claimant, I have deem it wise to provide them in the book, however still any disbeliever can take up any of this wager-challenge just to clear his disbelief.

@A-Town, whenever you're in town holla ghostsofsparta@live.com but for now let me know which one of the six listed feats you like proven to you?

This guy..you are back again? *follows thread*

ghostofsparta:

Ogbeni are we discussing firearms here? What's your point^^^?

Are you for real?

Your very first post talks about someone who was shot at and the bullets did not enter. You even put up a gory picture of the person.

Please, look at number 6 of your post

ghostofsparta:
A-Town my typings as a respond to you would be considered cheap, if you or mazaje or Billyonaire or my dear Logicboy are serious about clearing your doubt on the efficacy of Yoruba Advanced Science erroneously known as Juju...offer a wager of N100,000 and any of the following shall be demonstrated:

1. A vehicle immediately tested to be working would afterwards be rendered immovable by a YAS. African immobilizer
2. An item such a bag or a suit/briefcase would be affected with YAS such that no one including you can carry it, except for the person incantated to lift. (This particular YAS is done for peeps who sought out metaphysical means of protecting their money-filled suitcase).
3. You will see a YAS-rendered individual vanish in front of you like you have probably seen in Harry Potter cloaking or in Crysis but much more accurate.
4. You will bring forth a native fowl wherein after some rites and stuff, you will see it burned alive and at the same observe the same fowl walking towards the demonstrator from another path. Time travel stuff heh
5. You will be handed a machete to cut a meat where you shall observe the meat pierced then afterward apply the same machete on a YAS enabled individual wherein you will observe his skin impervious to the cut. Superman stuff, heh!
6. You will bring forth a goat where you will be handed a hunter or local vigilante rifle to fire an agreed upon object like a stack of bottles or water-filled keg in order to confirm the effect of the bullet impact as everyone would expected afterwards your aim is directed towards the blast-frightened goat which you are free to shoot as much as you like.

If not for your uncouthness . . .

I will go ahead and make the assumption that this and the rest are not addressed to me.

jayriginal:
Are you for real?

No I am as unreal as a ghost.

jayriginal:
Your very first post talks about someone who was shot at and the bullets did not enter. You even put up a gory picture of the person.

Please, look at number 6 of your post

I will go ahead and make the assumption that this and the rest are not addressed to me.

Mr. man what is your point^

ghostofsparta:

Ogbeni are we discussing firearms here? What's your point^^^? I haven't cited any movies, even so, are you telling me that marksmans movies like Enemy At The Gate isn't to a large extent factual? Okay let me put it this way...anybody can shoot at a large human target in LONG CLOSE RANGE and in this context those with APB who gets hit always felt it depending on the type their body is rendered with. There's the type that deflects the course of the bullet, the type thats drastically retards the velocity of the incoming bullet projectile thereby imapct would be non-lethal(my theory), the type that it is he who fires it that receives the bullet injury!(explain that A-town), the type that when you fire it jams and back fires!, the type that when you fire it water comes out (unconfirmed), and they all have their distinct names and versions/variants, what counteracts them, and what counteract the counteracters and so on.




First of all I am not gullible. You, A-Town and the rest of all disbeliever in African supernatural powers need to start BELIEVING in the advanced sciences of our ancient black scientists, that your mindsets which have been carved to find it delectable to subject everything under the purview of white man's science should not be completely suspended but to see how it can proffer explanation to MAREVELOUS things you're yet to see.

That video which I have seen before in the course of my research in African paranormal is as old as any T-34 tank and regardless of the questionable feats exhibited in that video I still aver that there exist African supernatural powers, especially those of the Yorubas. Very long time ago, I posted that particular video to those atheists at Atheist Republic and one of them replied with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlg-CtJDAGI as reply to disprove it.

If not for your uncouthness and the fact that this is a public forum I would have told you to try out a Yoruba Advanced Science which require some newly born cubs from a female dog, a ring, and water just to remove your disbelieve. This particular YAS is a type I classify under the OFFENSIVES in my book, and I know if the western world were to know about it, they wouldn't only weaponize it, they'd try to see if they can squeeze every juice out of it workings.

My brother, tell me how does someone walk through a wall directly which I have seen. How can you explain a masquerade crossing a river without rowing through it or passing the other way round through the bank in front of everybody. How can you explain the diversion, halting and stopping of rain, also the inducement of rain and wind. I am proud of my ancient ancestors for all these powers and many I have seen, the question is why didn't they use and collect all these powers together, use it to defend themselves from Europeans and Arabs invaders, defeats them, chased them back to their lands, invade their lands, conquer them and enslave them? The answer is very simple.

1. We are not war-mongers like the Scandinavians, Conquistadors, Celts, Mongols, Saxons, Romans, Greeks, Arabs, Gauls, Asians etc.
2. Our ancient superscientists (agbas, babalawos and oniseguns etc) kept this esoteric knowledge so restrictively because if everyone were to know about them, well aside from the certainty that we'd use them to protect our selves collectively from external invaders, it's also certain that there would be less than a million people existing in this world today. I know what I am saying...if those knowledge had become common among us, 98% will neglect the ones that are either neutral or beneficial, they would be attracted to those powers that are too destructive.

Those among our ancestors who knew about these esoteric knowledges, knowledges capable of tremendous powers such as to vanish, change shape, travel great distance in short time, super-advanced telephony and so many more that I shall be documenting in the book: Why I Am Not Yet An Atheist: Enter YAS. Of recently I just confirmed that the Yorubas still have the esoteric knowledge on how to make incendiaries beyond what Chemistry can decipher and ofcourse anti-explosives such as grenade bombs.

I know it is silly and improper of me to be making all this claims on behalf of the Yorubas and Igbos without any proof to back up. I know the burden of proof is on me or any claimant, I have deem it wise to provide them in the book, however still any disbeliever can take up any of this wager-challenge just to clear his disbelief.

@A-Town, whenever you're in town holla ghostsofsparta@live.com but for now let me know which one of the six listed feats you like proven to you?

Let me try and respond to some of the things you stated. Also, this is an open arguement and no one is crucifying anyone. We are just trying to clarify things.
The issue of shooting and the shooter gets hit can be likened to accidental discharges. Need i explain more?
Guns jam all the time as well. Maybe when this happens in the west, people should start saying it is jazz right?
How to explain a masquerade walking on a river? Hehe didn't David Blaine abi that Las Vegas guy or the Guy in London do the exact same thing. We also know how it is done. So cancel that one. Na illusion again.
The issue of someone passing through a wall is something i would like to see because it is similar to the disappearing act which i maintain is a LIE until i see proof.
Our ancestors didn't use it against the invaders simply because IT DIDN'T EXIST. Their JAZZ was and is still FAKE and they are a bloody SHAME and DISGRACE to humanity for lieing to us all this years. They kept preaching they had powers and yet when it mattered most they couldn't save their KINSMEN. SHAMEFUL LIARS.

P.S my abuse is directed at the lieing ancestors oo before one folake will come and misinterprete everything now and claim i'm abusing ghostsparta

A-town:
P.S my abuse is directed at the lieing ancestors oo before one folake will come and misinterprete everything now and claim i'm abusing ghostsparta

LOL

Waiting I do you self? I collect your wife? O de fimilorun sile.

We Africans are really making a big mistake. Those uneducated build up on mythology and creates fairy-tale to make a stand know but cant explain whilie those educated makes their version of mistake by putting on white supremacy hat and disbelief in anything that happens back at home. A-town, you and other educated Africans fall in the second senerio.

Im an Atheist. I dont believe in God/deity creating world, the Masculine supernatural being and religion. My African-american friend was the person that make me have interest in Ifa and African philosophy. Though I study little about Ifa and was further expose to stuff which you or other educated folks cant explain. I dont call things supernatural, but prefer natural wonders or better put, everything in nature is super.

Like Ghostofsparta explained, invaders came because they got in through some of our fathers. You cant deny that we have greedy, wicked and self concerned people in Africa. Slaves were sold to invaders by our greedy fathers. From the information I got from history, Yoruba was never invaded if not after kiriji war and the bashorun saga. This point should tell you that we ourselves are our enemy. It like say I want to invade your family compound....i can allie with your daughter or sister, marry her, through that get access to the family, makes her enemy of the family and here the violence come......with the tool, dividing I conquer.

Erm we have bad person not bad people/land. In a land, we can have good and bad people but that wont make you connote everybody on the land as bad. Wonni omo ti ko gboran ni ko oran ati oro ba baba ati iya e.


Ghostofsparta has claimed he saw and experienced Egun walking on water. I haven't seen such but I cant throw it out as false because im yet to witness it. When I does, I can investigate if it false or true. Those folks you listed walking on water...even I have a video of chris angel walking on the water but it trick and has been disproved. Fine, Egun has walked and some people has saw this.......why cant you investigate it if it true or false rather than disputing it here?

From personal experience, I have seen stuff that worth been called supernatural like Bullet proof juju, Atagba, water in basket, Magun and others. I know it does happen right but how this things happen is not an answer anybody should expect from me. If you have the chance tool, look beyond what you see, seek for answers where expected. Come to Nigeria when you free and visit any trado-scientist in their workshop. Confirm things with all your cameras and knowledgeable pals that can disprove it.

Ghostofsparta has raised the challenge, it up to anybody to pick it and disprove him. One fact I know is that I cant control what you know and what you dont know. We can only share knowledge and educate ourselves on what we know. You cant tell me what I know and which you haven't experienced is wrong until you know it and disprove me. It up to you or anybody on this thread to pick ghostofsparta challenges.....arguing wont change any stances here.

We can discuss many things without throwing insults. Im sorry you get me wrong when I said claiming a stand is wrong because of a video isn't right when personal you have not experienced/know about it. Im also sorry for any insult I throw. We be human and play by emotion sometimes.


Cheers bro

^^^^^^

I get the point you and ghostparta are trying to put across. I have not claimed that JUJU may not exist. We don't know it all. The way i do things is to disprove the ones that i know. That's the reason why i feel strongly about disappearing, bulletproof etc because all i keep seeing/hearing is hearsay.

Let me put it to you this way. If the guys in the first video could deceive people in this 20th century, would it be wrong for me to assume that we have been fed lies all through the years?

The difference between us and the west is that the west always comes clean eventually about their "illusions" unlike our african ancestors. The people in the first video obviously believed those guys had supernatural powers and that is how they will spread it around claimin "they were there live when someone pierced his neck and cut his arm with a cutlass and no blood came out"

You do agree with me that there is nothing different between what chris angel did and what the so-called masquerade walking on water did. The only difference is that chris angel is from the west and we term anything they do, magic/illusions because it has been exlpained. On the other hand, the masquerade in naija is called JUJU. Why is it JUJU when it's simply and illusion that can be explained?

Rather than claim supernatural powers, what our ancestors need claim is "brilliance". It takes a brilliant man to "fool" another and this is no easy talent. Our ancestors prefer scare tactics and would rather call it JUJU.

There may be real JUJU out there but the ones we are talking about, i do not believe until i see it. I believe in the theory that says matter can not be destroyed so if one man tells me he can disappear as an act of juju, he is on a long tinn. There is a difference between deflecting light from our eyes to portray invisibility (as in the case of cloaks being developed at a california uni) and someone outright telling me they can disappear from Lagos and appear in Kano.

If the jazz/technology does exist, i wonder why NASA is wasting their time spending 1.5yrs to get to Mars or the moon when they can simply find someone in naija to Teleport for them.

My man Folake okay sorry folykaze, i no vex for you juh. This na debate and we are here educating ourselves so ride on

Another problem I have with those who deride Africans and African Advanced science here is that when these oyibo peeps make their claims of achieving one feat or the other, none of these same people bother to shout "it's a lie", "ignorant people".
They just swallow everything hook, line and sinker. Let me ask, is there a way to verify all those claims except what the "scientists" tell you in their jargon filled fancy magazines and pictures which are only what they are, fvcking pictures.

These guys control the media and they can make you believe anything!
They went to the moon? Yeah right...

My point is, it's easier to believe the white man with all their 'scientific' lies because most of us have been programmed to do so.

@ A-town Even though I didn't accept most of your post, I agree with you.

The truth here is African are too superstitious. Somethings might be truth but some attract fable to their point for making them sound interesting. I dont believe someone can disappear from lagos and appear in kano. Lol. Yes thats kind of tale our people lift around. It could be truth that the person varnish or do some things to make people not seeing him in defense or something. It could also be that the person used Afeeri and Akanako at once for escaping enemy attack or defeat.
When a riot happened in my school, I dont know who called my parents or how they know about it. Very early in the following day, my mum called and asked 'is it true say dem don kill plenty people? Abeg dey come house....' mean why, it was just one person that died and students violently attacked the school management because the health clinic didn't respond to the victim immediately he was delivered to them. If another person pick it up from my mum, the person will say ha, dem don kill student finish or in the future tell maybe friend or child seeking admission to my school by telling them no be that school wey dem dey kill student you dey go?. As if killing is everyday work there. Also if you ask anybody if they want posting to the northern area for service, they will surely say the area is insecure not minding if Niger, sokoto and other part in the north is peaceful. There is fact and there is exaggeration and in exaggerations, there is grounded truth. Thats Africa for you. The only thing I know is that the fact of today hurled from fable.

Erm we learn everyday. We cant just throw anything we have not witnessed or came across as false. Also we cant because we dont know how thing happen or it process it happen then call it supernatural. Everything in nature is super....that what I know. Which ever way, we should investigate things to the end before judging. I appreciate your courage for accepting the challenge with Ghostofsparta. You guys can verify things and show us outcome, video and picture at the end.

Cheers

kwangi: Another problem I have with those who deride Africans and African Advanced science here is that when these oyibo peeps make their claims of achieving one feat or the other, none of these same people bother to shout "it's a lie", "ignorant people".
They just swallow everything hook, line and sinker. Let me ask, is there a way to verify all those claims except what the "scientists" tell you in their jargon filled fancy magazines and pictures which are only what they are, fvcking pictures.

These guys control the media and they can make you believe anything!
They went to the moon? Yeah right...

My point is, it's easier to believe the white man with all their 'scientific' lies because most of us have been programmed to do so.

Let me stop you right there. This is the main reason why we seek knowledge. Like seriously? There is a reason why we spend 6years in sec school and 4years in college. The only people who swallow everything you claim are actually the "juju believers" themselves. No one sold me any lie about mans abilitiy to travel to the moon. I am not scientifically/technically challenged. I know how it works and have the proof so it is not hearsay. If it were all bogus, all the satellites in space would be bogus too abi? the space station is bogus abi? Tell me why your GPS on your navi or phone works? Tell me how i am able to see your house in ISALE EKO just by getting on GOOGLE EARTH if it is just fables and pictures like you claim?

Some people look than on their culture but i do not. I am only being objective. If a white man tells me that he can teleport from Lagos to Kano, i will biitch slap him as well so it has nothing to do with inferiority complex.

@FOLYKAZE

At the end of the day, i blame our people. If this thing is real, they should stop hiding it in secrecy. Maybe 20years ago when there was no technological means of capturing it, yeah, but not nowadays when we have MEGA HD CAMERAS available for all to see. I will be the first to swallow my pride/shame if VIDEO proof is produced. As a matter of fact, i will stop "yabbing" people on nairaland sef. Erm , actually, don't hold me accountable for that last part because i may fall ill if i don't yab.

kwangi: Another problem I have with those who deride Africans and African Advanced science here is that when these oyibo peeps make their claims of achieving one feat or the other, none of these same people bother to shout "it's a lie", "ignorant people".
They just swallow everything hook, line and sinker. Let me ask, is there a way to verify all those claims except what the "scientists" tell you in their jargon filled fancy magazines and pictures which are only what they are, fvcking pictures.

These guys control the media and they can make you believe anything!
They went to the moon? Yeah right...

My point is, it's easier to believe the white man with all their 'scientific' lies because most of us have been programmed to do so.

You got some points there. Most of us are brainwashed and the real conquering seeds (self hatred, division, branding realism with myth, destruction of concepts etc) are manifesting in our system. The only reason why Africa is "far behind" is because of Colonialism, Neocolonialism, forcing rival tribes to live with one another in a concept and planting division seeds on our soil.

An African was rejected when he claimed he can cure AIDs with herb and concortion by WHO. It is a grand fact that first successful CS operation was carried out in Africa by Africans. Africa still have surviving cave paintings from over ten thousand years ago depicting solar systems western only discovered in the last century. The egyptian pyramid, nok art and the benin bronze design is a indication of ancient knowledge and civilization. They denied this and all but we personally wont appreciate them or throw it out through the window. The thing is, African history, except for the parts about recent colonization, is never taught in any schools except fabricated ones we taught in history class which I think was passed by europeans. This perpetrates the stereotype that Africans have done nothing but become enslaved, poor, and in war.

Local herbs is a great potential to believe African have brain. No measures of treeback, no lab for testing and verification and nothing like diagnosis of patient but this thing work till today. If only we can dig out this knowledge from those it passed down to....if only we can expande on what we have and start believing in ourselves, Africa will wake up and shine brighter than any continent in the world.

A-town:
@FOLYKAZE

At the end of the day, i blame our people. If this thing is real, they should stop hiding it in secrecy. Maybe 20years ago when there was no technological means of capturing it, yeah, but not nowadays when we have MEGA HD CAMERAS available for all to see. I will be the first to swallow my pride/shame if VIDEO proof is produced. As a matter of fact, i will stop "yabbing" people on nairaland sef. Erm , actually, don't hold me accountable for that last part because i may fall ill if i don't yab.

You wake my ginger tonight. Nairaland is becoming boring but at least, I read some of your post and laugh. It good to have your type.

Erm....Coca cola recipe is secret today abi I lie? Secrecy aid survival of life. It strength of business development and the stronghold of every society is embedded with secret.

You are educated and have travelled to far distant. African has philosophy, esoteric knowledge, realism and insight about nature. Religion has taken over all these things. Religion branded African truism with myth, fable and lies. The other societies plagiarized what belonged to us and take the pride for themselves. I logged my whole time this evening explaining concept of Ogun....the god of iron to a friend. She was felt fvck up when she realise I believe in Ogun as an Atheist. Some think Ogun is humanbeing like the myth attributed with it. But to my knowledge, it force....energy. It iron/metal in blood, electrical magnet, gravity and verse of every singularity of nature. Lol... In with my sense The fact is this force (ogun) exist but the humanic myth is the delusion people are drunk with.

If we want Africa to change positively, not been oppressed, and stop this continual exploitation, we must complete the gridlock, link the puzzle and unveil the secrets the invaders has not known but are here. Ghostofsparta is a true African son. He has taken the move for the change. I have prepared to prove some stuff to another nairalander and we both agree to prove the video. If it comes out to be fact, we make something tangible and useful out of it but not revealing secrets to the world. Lets display it not revealing the secret. when it proven as fact, you, me and others will take over and modernize things. And if it fails, we can refresh our oppourtunities and take myth in any ramification away from our system.


My finger aching, my brain is boiling....hey. Na till tomorrow abeg. Cheers bro

A-town:
Ghostofsparta has claimed he saw and experienced Egun walking on water.

[size=15pt]Yekpa![/size]

A-town:
How to explain a masquerade walking on a river? Hehe didn't David Blaine abi that Las Vegas guy or the Guy in London do the exact same thing.

You guys obviously misconstrued me, first of all, I think at this point, I reserve a privilege to say you guys don't even know shit about the white man's concept of to vanish. To vanish is exactly the same thing with disappear and invisibility, all three of which are totally different from TELEPORTATION which is precisely what the Egungun masquerade did when I twisted it as: "How can you explain a masquerade crossing a river without rowing through it or passing the other way round through the bank in front of everybody" that statement is meant for you to crank your brain and wasn't to imply the Egungun walked on water.

A-town:
The issue of shooting and the shooter gets hit can be likened to accidental discharges. Need i explain more?

What do you mean? what are you saying? Who is talking of accidental discharge? Guy all this talk is cheap, when you're ready bring your ultra definition 3D fusion camera, your N100K cheque, and come feed your eyes with not the type seen in 'The Prestige' movie where the character Christian Bale was playing is using sleight of hand to simulate the catching of fired bullet.

A-town:
Guns jam all the time as well. Maybe when this happens in the west, people should start saying it is jazz right? We also know how it is done. So cancel that one. Na illusion again.

Have you got reasoning? Who doesn't know firearm do jam at anytime like the American's did in Vietnamese swamp? But what are the chances that a given firearm wouldn't jam after been shot twice or more at a static effigy for instance before being aimed at someone rendered with that particular ABP that makes it jam instantly at? If my english is somehow, let me put it this way...Mr. JUJU says aiming the muzzle of a firearm at him renders it locked/jams through supernatural means and you are saying well if it does the rationale is "guns do jam afterall", what are the odds that it wouldn't from at that moment of trial? Reminds me of a superb movie 'Primeval' there is this scene in it that tries to tell its viewers that it's because the character Dominic Purcell was playing had it firearm wallowed in the river was the reason why it didn't fired initially making it machete wielding attacker to think his incantation was working. A-Town when you're ready, you may bring your fellow skeptics and disbelievers as witness to see that it will happen live in an uncontrolled and uninfluenced environment. I have watched Magic Biggest Secret Finally Revealed Season 1 and 2 wherein the host, called 'The Masked Magician' revealed all the stage and gizmo-aided tricks and deceptions behind all prominent western magic which are solely to inspire awe on it viewers and to entertain audience. I don't need to be enlightened about 'plexi-glass', 'smokes and mirrors' etc, I am already aware of those explainable magics and illusions which is entirely different from the seemingly REAL supernatural magic (Yoruba Advanced Sciences) I talk of.

A-town:
The issue of someone passing through a wall is something i would like to see because it is similar to the disappearing act which i maintain is a LIE until i see proof.

This one is even child's play stuff, when you're ready you will see and videoshoot Mr. JUJUMAN moving through a wall showing up on the other side. My brother this powers are for real but are not only jealously guarded but are also hoarded which is what vexes me the most about our so called native doctors and has driven me to document as many as I can in that book I am making tremendous research on. There are different types of it gan sef. Like I am told 'Ogun guuuuuuun'

For those reading this topic who know about what I am talking of, and have seen or are into it, do not think I am on a quest to reveal the secret formulas of our superscientist (babalawos and oniseguns) for the world to use in my book. NO, that is not my intention, my intention is to list, define and classify both the malevolent, benevolent and neutral powers(YAS) into a form of nomenclature not only for the world to know Yoruba Africans have already been far ahead of whatever the white man's science and tech can stumble on, but most importantly how we can adapt if not all, but some of them can be adopted to practical purpose in modern times because I strongly think it's folly if we Africans think we can meet up with the whites regarding how far they've gone given the technological products derived from the application of their empirical based sciences.

A-town:
Our ancestors didn't use it against the invaders simply because IT DIDN'T EXIST. Their JAZZ was and is still FAKE and they are a bloody SHAME and DISGRACE to humanity for lieing to us all this years. They kept preaching they had powers and yet when it mattered most they couldn't save their KINSMEN. SHAMEFUL LIARS.

Stop been a provocateur, simply because you haven't set your eyes on REAL jazz in action does mean it doesn't EXIST? Stop insulting our black ancestors. They knew better, they know best why everything happened the way it did. FYI, they never preached like the religious proselytizers that they had powers, you are getting a whole lot of thing wrong dude.

FOLYKAZE:
Erm....Coca cola recipe is secret today abi I lie? Secrecy aid survival of life. It strength of business development and the stronghold of every society is embedded with secret.

I may disagree with you a bit, secrecy doesn't necessary aid survival. I believe information and knowledge should be free but not free as such in the full sense of free and common. What I mean is everyone can read about the internal combustion engine which is the basis of electric generator and automobiles, if that particular knowledge was hidden and hoarded, we wouldn't have a variety of cars today with their unique engine advancements. We'd have only, say Mercedez or Ford. If our ancient superscientists had revealed the knowledge of Kanoko or Egbe, people would be traveling long distance today in short time because all the weaknesses and shortcomings of Kanoko and Egbe would have been perfect maybe by an Austrian or a Tutsi deep thinker. I don't know if you get my point? Everyone knows the underlying principle of nuclear energy but not everyone is qualified/certified to harness it potential but at least the knowledge is there, in our Chemistry textbooks and free on the internet just like how to make portable propulsion crafts, explosives, TNT etc are allover the web.

FOLYKAZE: I logged my whole time this evening explaining concept of Ogun....the god of iron to a friend. She was felt fvck up when she realise I believe in Ogun as an Atheist. Some think Ogun is humanbeing like the myth attributed with it. But to my knowledge, it force....energy. It iron/metal in blood, electrical magnet, gravity and verse of every singularity of nature. Lol... In with my sense The fact is this force (ogun) exist but the humanic myth is the delusion people are drunk with.

Please don't consider me bragging, but believe me when I say I am a researcher. You even stand to be corrected too just like Professor Wole Soyinka (my respect to him). Ogun is not God of Iron, Sango is not God of Thunder, all these appellations are completely off point, and it's because of the tremendous and pernicious influence of Abrahamic religion and Greco-Roman framework that's even affecting how we interpret our stuff. Sango is the deity presiding over INSTANT JUSTICE and VENGEANCE harnessing thunder bolt to fight, manifestable today when invoked as thunder and lightening, while OGUN is the deity presiding over BATTLE, METAL TECHNOLOGY and also JUSTICE. Even the term deity is a misnomer. We should call it what our ancestors call 'Irunmole(collectively[401]/'Orisha(single).

@A-Town
The challenge is ON, pick one of the six challenge offered to you, or are you thinking there's some sort of hanky-panky behind them hence doesn't qualify supernatural enough for your logical mind, then if so, may I suggest two more for you to pick one, where you will be asked to place your palm on the ground surface and certain rite and incantation will be done and asked to pull your own palms off with all your strength but will never unless it's undone (this particular jazz was demonstrated for a dude like you who claimed Jesus power is superior to that of any native doctor). In my assessment, no native doctor claimed these powers are theirs, they knowledge of all these powers are all from one source, they can either be applied for good or evil. The second one is....you would bring forth your healthy cockerel which you can strangulate yourself to death and you will see how it would be waken up back to life with a YAS ring. This particular jazz, the superscience sage said it can also be applied for someone who JUST died from an avoidable death iku ojiji, provided no one as shed tears or exhibited sorrow or mourned him/her. Imagine the white scientists getting their hands on that ring, they wouldn't mind spending any amount to advanced it further through extensive research and experiments to achieve how it can be applied beyond 'avoidable death', they would reverse engineer the components of the ring to its precise mole ratio, further analyzing what and what got synesthestically introduced into the corpse at X-Y-Z condition and temperature, thereby given rise to anti-necrobiotic agents responsible for the rapid catalysis of self-repairing tissue cells within the exit-wound of the bullet! gbam! mant Nigerians would shout Oyinbo are next to God o, imagine they can now wake up the instant dead, some fools here would say, ha! you see again oyinbo people dey always use their juju for good things like eroplane, helokopta, telivishun but God pass dem sha. Mr. A-town I don't want to use more punchlines meant for my book "Why I Am Not Yet An Atheist: Enter YAS" on this thread. Until you come back to Yorubaland and take up one of the now 8 wager-challenge I have put to you, remain as the renowned skeptic/debunker 'Mike Enslin' in the movie '1408'

In other words, Africa is ahead of time!

@ghost of sparta...can we have an extract of your book? cos i wanna learn more about these african traditional religion plus the different terminologies..or do you have a website?

Think about it guys..if you believe in a god,there are other gods too.God of magic,thunder. You just have to know which one you want to worship,once you dabble in black magic you are dealing with other gods

Anyway:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_(murder_victim)

@ ghostofsparta

Morning man. You should get my point clearly about revealing secrets. Im not saying African trado-scientist shouldn't develop what they had but the point im making here is also the one you enlisted about esoteric knowledge and reason why the ancestors who own this knowledge never make it public. There is nothing wrong if we prove to ourselves what we own. It not wrong if we equipped our security with Odeshi. It not wrong if we swear oath of agreement with idols like sango or Ogun. It not wrong if national holiday is separated for African tradition. It not wrong if the nation have specific shrine. Pagan is universal and not like Abrahamic religion that contradict each other. We need to prove this thing within ourselves, modernize it, upgrade it to internation standard and protect it from getting into the hand of enemies. The westerners are enemy and are ready to destroy everything. The white house today is known, seen and can be visit but you cant ask from the secret layout of the white building from Obama. Even though some member of his family, friends and co-administrator wont know this secret layout which the public is not aware of but only just some people. But I believe there is because of enemy, invaders and anti-camps which will work whole year to get hand on this.......it cant happen. We have Agbo and it working big time. We can develop this, not revealing it secret to outsider is not necessary. At a point in time, I watch my dad preparing Agbo, I thought ya I know it now and tried to do it for myself. But not knowing there are still some incantation and Ase i need to collect before I can make this things work for me. If im enemy or invader, I can just pick it up from dad, develop it and take the pride. No matter how you build motor engines today, the respect wont come as a whole to you but the primary maker where you get your own source from. Such is what im saying. I think you understand?


I respect knowledge, desire to acquire more...reason im here and tend to correction at anytime.
We should understand that God/god, deity and Idol is the same. You have used Deity to represent Ogun in your write up. I just laugh and say well, we see things from different angle but we are stil heading to the direction. God does not necessarily mean supernatural force, that is hungry for worship and who creates the world. That was the reason I used humanlike myth in my previous post. Energy is God, God is energy. Since God is Energy, it therefore means God can not be destroyed but converted from one form to another. Therefore Energy is God. Since Energy can be converted from one form to another, it there for means, that the totality of all that there is in the universe is called GOD.
God means all that there is, including you and I. It nature and everything in nature. The great reason our ancestors admire, respect and honour everything in nature be it tree, animal, wind, water etc. So, do not look out there to God, you are a part of it. You should get me right. I need to buttress on Ogun from my angle of understanding.
OGUN is primal energy. Ogun is that force of nature that keeps matter in motion. Once god gives a being life, it is Ogun who sustains that organism. Ogun is the sustainment of life. Without Ogun, the universe, as we know it, would not exist. It controls one quarter of the universe and although it cannot exist of itself, it is so important in the scheme of things, that all of the ORISHA are dependent on him for their existence. Ogun is one of the oldest of Orisa in the Yoruba pantheon. Ogun is the God/Energy of War and things use in War, Energy and Metal/Iron. Ogun keeps matter in motion. Ogun is the sustainer of life. Ogun lives in the knife, and with it, clears a path for man. Ogun is the force within your computer. Ogun is technology. Ogun is the force of gravity, the force of attraction. Ogun represents the tools that shape man, bringing out a person's potential, enhancing one's life. Ogun controls life and death. Ogun is our heart beat, it in the blood stream as 'iron' and the final contraction during birth. Ogun is auto accidents and gun wounds. Ogun is the warrior, hunter and farmer. Ogun is the God of loyalty and life-long friendships. Ogun is the master of secrets, skills, crafts, professions and creations. Ogun is the Orisa of barbers, doctors, butchers, etc., any occupation that uses knives or blades, or iron tools. Ogun cut a path through the bush. Ogun provides the tools which are essential to creating civilization. Ogun is evolutionary energy. It is technology. Like all the Orisa, Ogun has two opposing attributes which seem in conflict, but are actually two sides of the same coin (create and destroy). Seeing Ogun as a humanlike-God depicted in myths and religion is wrong. It is an eternal force. I see this could be what you me but if it contradict your view Im open to correction here though

A-town:


Let me stop you right there. This is the main reason why we seek knowledge. Like seriously? There is a reason why we spend 6years in sec school and 4years in college. The only people who swallow everything you claim are actually the "juju believers" themselves. No one sold me any lie about mans abilitiy to travel to the moon. I am not scientifically/technically challenged. I know how it works and have the proof so it is not hearsay.

What is Juju?
You're not scientifically challenged, fantastic.
Please explain/show/prove.
I really wanna see.
Thank you.

equams: lepasharon@ghost of sparta...can we have an extract of your book? cos i wanna learn more about these african traditional religion plus the different terminologies..or do you have a website?

I'm sorry no one can't for now. The black man never had a religion, religion itself is a foreign term. In Yoruba 'esin' is a way of life just like Tao/Shintoism which encompasses the tradition, culture, language and rites of the Japanese is their way of life but to the European understanding, it's religion. There are only two religions in this world; Christianity and Islam, Judaism itself is encompasses the way of life of the Jewish people. It's not a religion. So the book I am working on is not about African traditional religion, though I shall touch it in various respect, but it's specifically about what I call African Advanced Sciences mostly from the Yoruba perspective.

equams: Think about it guys..if you believe in a god,there are other gods too.God of magic,thunder. You just have to know which one you want to worship,once you dabble in black magic you are dealing with other gods

^What?^....stop obfuscating your mind. Who told you one can't propitiate more than one deity? Africans were originally polytheists, actually henotheists as I am. Note, even in those ancient time there were atheists and skeptics too, Ifa mentioned of them. As a polytheist Mr. X could seek child from Osun/Yemoja, seek protection from protection from Orunmila, seek breakthrough, inspiration, etc from Sango/Ogun, deter misery and demise through the proper application of Osanyin/Esu and so on and on, given what I have expressed it doesn't make the part of your statement in bold valid. Most of you Nigerians have been heavily influence with a wester, christeo-judaic way of thinking. As an henotheist, all this Orishas/Irunmoles revolve round one source - OLODUMARE which is far beyond our senses and understanding and has no shrine dedication nor need to propitiate nor worship.

@FOLYKAZE
You are right about your Ogun description but the problem is the same with most people who unintentionally use inappropriate English terms in interpreting some of our Yoruba terms. Yorubas never had myths or mythology. I have heard people from Unis says "according to Yoruba mythology, Sango is..." it's utter nonsense. The Yorubas never and still don't have myth. Mythology is something that is neither true nor false like Apollo, Siren, Cyclops, Poseidon, Orion, Zeus, Jupiter are all parts of Greco-Roman creation and origin myths that so many expressionists in different time constructed huge statute and burst of which you and I know when contacted today to supernatureact on behalf of what is claimed by their historians, nothing will happen. Can that be said of even a semi-Orisha called 'Ayilala'? muchless of the major IRUMOLEs like Sango, Amadioha, Sopana, Eshu, Ogun, Oya etc and yet the weeks and names of months were named after those fake Greco-roman deities who were originally derived from ancient Egypt. I can't go into the complex history of that.

Regarding 'Agbo'....oro po niwe kobo

Can I ask you something? Do you believe in the story about Odudua came from heaven, created the world and we Yoruba are sons and daughter of odua?

Well it could means something deep which I will like to know.

Erm, dont let me derail this thread, we can discuss this through emails.....I will send you PM

kwangi: What is Juju?
You're not scientifically challenged, fantastic.
Please explain/show/prove.
I really wanna see.
Thank you.

You seem to be confused.

FOLYKAZE: Can I ask you something? Do you believe in the story about Odudua came from heaven, created the world and we Yoruba are sons and daughter of odua?

Well it could means something deep which I will like to know.

Erm, dont let me derail this thread, we can discuss this through emails.....I will send you PM

[quote author=kwangi]

The oduduwa story is a story that has been passed down generations just like any other biblical story. Their is no authenticity to it. It's simply a question of whether one chooses to believe it or not.

@ Ghostsparta
There is no need running back and forth. I personally want to see all those things you listed proved on video. I have no problem shelling 100k for it. My only problem is that we all know how Nigerians can be. After shelling the cash, then story story go come follow.

A-town:
The oduduwa story is a story that has been passed down generations just like any other biblical story. Their is no authenticity to it. It's simply a question of whether one chooses to believe it or not.

What will you call this passed down stories? Allegory (choose that because ghostofsparta hates the word myth) or what? Ghostsparta could have a deep meaning into this and might explain what it really mean in his own view.


We should respect and shouldn't derail his thread unless he say otherwise though.

A-town:


You seem to be confused.

Hahaha... Yeah, I am.
That's why I want you to set things straight for me.
But if you can't, it's alright. I understand.

If you want to go down the ad hominem path, that would be really pathetic, won't it?
Still, I understand.
It ain't easy dealing with self-hate.

Mr 'scientifically unchallenged', I still await your invaluable explanation as I sincerely do not fully grasp the claim in question.
I'm just applying the measures to your white master's claim as you do to those of my 'fathers'. It's only fair, ain't it?

I need to interrupt here.

THe Odudua legend like many other Pagan Creation legends, explains only the creation of the particular ethnicity involved. It therefore carries a deeper inner meaning as to the Tribes origins and is not to be taken literally.

In the case of the biblical legends, we must first deign to understand certain things. we cannot treat the two cases in the same and equal manner.

judaism , christianity and islam are all man-made religions. However astonishingly, judaism is much more closer to the Earlier Pagan religions, in terms of structural context.

Why?

because it was the first ever attempt at creating a breakaway-religion going away from the naturally existing order, from the exisiting tribal-ethnic religions. SInce then, the world has seen many such man-made religions and the problems have increased. However that is for another episode.

judaism is therefore also non-proselytyzing.

its Creation myth is a somewhat thoroughly editted version of earlier Canaanite myths and Pagan stories ,etc.

However, the creation stories of christianity and islam, apply to the the entire world population, due to their proselytyzing ways, etc.

SInce judaism and its subsequent successors, they have been going by "THE BOOK".

as mentioned in the QUran as well, these 3 religions are religions of "THE BOOK".

Therefore in these 3 religions, the followers are taught to take the creation stories seriously as GOSPEL TRUTH.

unlike Greek/Hindu, etc. mythologies that also provide entertainment and morals, which was their main-aim (apart from explaining tribal history),

these abrahamic myths have been taught to their followers to accept it as REALITY, without any inner meaning.

this is not normal and it is artificial.

Wow learning more from dis thread,its been a long time on d religion section

PAGAN 9JA:
I need to interrupt here.

THe Odudua legend like many other Pagan Creation legends, explains only the creation of the particular ethnicity involved. It therefore carries a deeper inner meaning as to the Tribes origins and is not to be taken literally.

In the case of the biblical legends, we must first deign to understand certain things. we cannot treat the two cases in the same and equal manner.

judaism , christianity and islam are all man-made religions. However astonishingly, judaism is much more closer to the Earlier Pagan religions, in terms of structural context.

Why?

because it was the first ever attempt at creating a breakaway-religion going away from the naturally existing order, from the exisiting tribal-ethnic religions. SInce then, the world has seen many such man-made religions and the problems have increased. However that is for another episode.

judaism is therefore also non-proselytyzing.

its Creation myth is a somewhat thoroughly editted version of earlier Canaanite myths and Pagan stories ,etc.

However, the creation stories of christianity and islam, apply to the the entire world population, due to their proselytyzing ways, etc.

SInce judaism and its subsequent successors, they have been going by "THE BOOK".

as mentioned in the QUran as well, these 3 religions are religions of "THE BOOK".

Therefore in these 3 religions, the followers are taught to take the creation stories seriously as GOSPEL TRUTH.

unlike Greek/Hindu, etc. mythologies that also provide entertainment and morals, which was their main-aim (apart from explaining tribal history),

these abrahamic myths have been taught to their followers to accept it as REALITY, without any inner meaning.

this is not normal and it is artificial.

Can you give us the deeper interpretation to Odua creation?

FOLYKAZE:

Can you give us the deeper interpretation to Odua creation?

it requires research. not just in the myth, but in Yoruba history, events, migrations, etc. and also in the exact version of the myth.

PAGAN 9JA:


it requires research. not just in the myth, but in Yoruba history, events, migrations, etc. and also in the exact version of the myth.

I agree with you here.

Maybe Ghostofsparta will give us the insight