wiegraf:



http://nrich.maths.org/1434



Welcome to non-euclidian geometry. How many more before riemann et al are qualified to become saints?

You must now believe in miracles, btw..

That is not a triangle. Since when does triangles have pregnant sides?

You might as well call this a square:

aManFromMars:

And The Bible says 'atheists are fools'.. Then goes on to say ''And the lord commended the unrighteous steward that he did prudently, because the sons of this age are more prudent than the sons of the light, in respect to their generation.""

Should make you wonder if you're foolish or wise...

QFT !

Alfa Seltzer:

That is not a triangle. Since when does triangles have pregnant sides?

You might as well call this a square:

Depending on the surface, that could be a square. Straight lines on a mountain/cone for instance could produce something similar I would think. Mathmagicians familiar with topology should be able to show better. You're some sort of engineer, no?

Just as orbits are actually straight lines, but of course from our perspective they're spheres

wiegraf:

Depending on the surface, that could be a square. Straight lines on a mountain/cone for instance could produce something similar I would think. Mathmagicians familiar with topology should be able to show better. You're some sort of engineer, no?

Just as orbits are actually straight lines, but of course from our perspective they're spheres

In 3Ds, any shape can turn to any shape depending on orientation and perspective. That is why some people say that we have a distorted view of the world and that life is an illusion. The post asking for a proof of a triangle meant a 2D surface triangle. The response he got was that of a distorted triangular shape posed on a 3D shpere.

2D shapes are constants: A rectangle has fixed properties and remains a rectangle until shifted in which case it immediately ceases to be a rectangle but becomes a parallelogram. (mind you, both still remain quadrilaterals with sum angles of 360 degrees)

There's nothing magical about maths, just people confusing things. And no, I'm not an engineer of some sort. Just suffice it to say that I think I have more knowledge than I should have.

I really don't know how you came about your conclusion that orbits are straight lines. If some object has a straight surface, then its orbit would be straight but if the surface is curved or zig-zagged, its orbit will follow the same pattern.

birdman:

Thanks for this vid. I have actually seen this this guy before, and I agree with him. The leg stretching indeed can be faked. Which is why I posted the above video. Note several things from my original Hagin video.

The debunker believes you can simulate this miracle by altering the viewer's perspective by swinging the legs and pulling the shoe off slightly. In the video I posted, the perspective is even across 4 cases, there is no leg swinging. This leaves the shoes.

Watch the relative distances between the shoes, the ankle and the knee, not just to themselves, but to background objects. To get a solid frame of reference, I chose one of the observers, as well as an inanimate object. This video is not blurry like the one by Allen, so not only would you catch shoe pulling, you would detect an attempt to fool your perspective. Of it was only one subject, I could pass this off as a really good trick. But we have 4, male, female and child. Unless Hagin was able to find 4 humans who could extend their hips by inches at will, the Hagin video is legit. Or at the very least, it passes the smell test put forward by James Randi.

So again, can anyone explain or debunk the Hagin video? Btw I have nothing against atheists, if anything I respect people who are bold enough to question everything. But I am curious as to what a nairaland atheist would do with evidence as in the Hagin video? (I already know what James Randi would do

Let's grant that the video is legit. The fact remains that certain miracles such as ressurection and amputee healing, especially the latter, should be as common given the promises of God in the NT as regards healing. Not that miracles would convert all atheists, but it should shut the mouths of some for awhile. Now where is a documented amputee healing. Not the one 17th centurty (or so) story brought up by Perry Marshall.

We demand more than cough, cold and cattarh healing amongst others.

Uyi Iredia: We demand more than cough, cold and cattarh healing amongst others.

lol.. an amputee healing?
dude quit the jokes!
Miracles cant be performed by everyone though. so its not as common..
Its a gift of the spirit given to some..and the spirit gives as it wills, not as you will.
1corithians 12:10

wiegraf:



http://nrich.maths.org/1434



Welcome to non-euclidian geometry. How many more before riemann et al are qualified to become saints?

You must now believe in miracles, btw..

He meant an angle of more than 180 degrEes

Alfa Seltzer:

In 3Ds, any shape can turn to any shape depending on orientation and perspective. That is why some people say that we have a distorted view of the world and that life is an illusion. The post asking for a proof of a triangle meant a 2D surface triangle. The response he got was that of a distorted triangular shape posed on a 3D shpere.

2D shapes are constants: A rectangle has fixed properties and remains a rectangle until shifted in which case it immediately ceases to be a rectangle but becomes a parallelogram. (mind you, both still remain quadrilaterals with sum angles of 360 degrees)

There's nothing magical about maths, just people confusing things. And no, I'm not an engineer of some sort. Just suffice it to say that I think I have more knowledge than I should have.

I really don't know how you came about your conclusion that orbits are straight lines. If some object has a straight surface, then its orbit would be straight but if the surface is curved or zig-zagged, its orbit will follow the same pattern.

He never specified flat, 2d euclidean triangle. He simply said triangle, and that's a triangle. 3 sides, straight lines.

As for orbits being straight lines, start walking in a straight line.....around the world

Kay 17:

He meant an angle of more than 180 degrEes

That's more than 180, it's 90 + 90 + 50, which is 230

Kay 17:

He meant an angle of more than 180 degrEes

no, he didn't. Every triangle have not 1 but 3 angles of more than 180 degrees each. Infact, the sum of all angles on any triangle is 1080 degrees.

wiegraf:

He never specified flat, 2d euclidean triangle. He simply said triangle, and that's a triangle. 3 sides, straight lines.

As for orbits being straight lines, start walking in a straight line.....around the world

How can you call a curved line straight? If I start walking, I wouldn't be moving in a straight line but on a curve. Why are you thinking like a flat earth muslim that when he is looking into outer space thinks he's looking at mecca.

Remember that light travels in a straight line. Flash your torch and see if its light comes up behind you. SMDH.

Alfa Seltzer:

How can you call a curved line straight? If I start walking, I wouldn't be moving in a straight line but on a curve. Why are you thinking like a flat earth muslim that when he is looking into outer space thinks he's looking at mecca.

You would be moving in a straight line......on a curve.

Doesn't mean the world is flat. Where do you even get that?

Alfa Seltzer:
Remember that light travels in a straight line. Flash your torch and see if its light comes up behind you. SMDH.

Correct, but space does not. So if you bend space, you bend light, and you well know that's been observed.

As far as the light is concerned though, it's moving in a straight line. On it's plane, it's a straight line. You, however, not on the same plane can see the curve. That does not mean the light isn't moving in a straight line, it is, just not on your plane.

Alfa Seltzer:

How can you call a curved line straight? If I start walking, I wouldn't be moving in a straight line but on a curve. Why are you thinking like a flat earth muslim that when he is looking into outer space thinks he's looking at mecca.

Remember that light travels in a straight line. Flash your torch and see if its light comes up behind you. SMDH.

the bolded cracked me up...
hilarious

wiegraf:

You would be moving in a straight line......on a curve.

Doesn't mean the world is flat. Where do you even get that?

Ah, I get it. You are talking of a straight line in the sense that I am not walking like a drunk or one possesed by the holy spirit. However, the surface I travel on in a curved one. That's the perspective I was talking about. It's like looking at the lines on a basket ball. They may seem straight to some people and curved to others.

However, if you take is like that, then all lines are straight depending on orientation. I would thus for the purpose of the original question, assume that the poser was asking about angles on a 2 dimensional triangle.

Alfa Seltzer:

Ah, I get it. You are talking of a straight line in the sense that I am not walking like a drunk or one possesed by the holy spirit. However, the surface I travel on in a curved one. That's the perspective I was talking about. It's like looking at the lines on a basket ball. They may seem straight to some people and curved to others.

However, if you take is like that, then all lines are straight depending on orientation. I would thus for the purpose of the original question, assume that the poser was asking about angles on a 2 dimensional triangle.

Op didn't specify and that is a triangle. And all triangles in existence actually happen to be like that, not flat. Also, the holy sp.irit is mysterious and omnipotent, capable of absurdities, so you're wrong there.

On a semi-related note, the picture you paint isn't exactly correct from where I'm sited. It's not a case of orientation per se, it's a case of what is actually happening. All spacetime is curved. Through the universe mass contorts, no exceptions. So in actuality every single line in the universe is curved. 2d exists only in theory

It's obviously silly to account for the curving in everyday life as the effects are so negligible you can consider them non-existent at these scales. Just as it would be silly to go about using the fact that you are both a wave and particles to thereby attempt walking through a wall. The effects of weirdness and uncertainty are virtually non-existent/detectable at the macro level, so much so they are ignored, but they still exist. Same thing here with geometry

And another another note related to actual motion, which every single atom in the universe is constantly engaged in. Supposing you stay still and flash a powerful laser ahead, you'll see the light follow a straight line. However, an observer from another location will see the path of the light curve because, of course, you're actually moving in other directions as well. Point is while you might think yourself moving in a straight line at any time, you actually aren't. You will be following a curved path, just like the light would, and this affects everything.

No such thing as a flat, 2d straight line in reality. (mayhaps at some yet to be discovered quantum level, but you get the point)

@op
I had an accident some months ago, i completely broke my ankle and had to go for surgery and today i can walk. Now do u call that miracle. Do u call the fact that u feel headache and stops after takin panadol a miracle?

Is miracle perculiar to church? Or religious people? Do u call everything u dont understand a miracle?

Lolol. Confusion in the camp of the satanists and atheists

Miracles do not exist in a scientific sense. Therefore, anyone who believes that the scientific method and the laws of science are true is not going to believe in any miracles.

I have never seen a miracle. Those faith healers are just clever frauds. Amateur magicians if you will. The only 'miracle' they perform is to make gullible people pull out money and place it in the collection plate.

wiegraf:


Op didn't specify and that is a triangle. And all triangles in existence actually happen to be like that, not flat. Also, the holy sp.irit is mysterious and omnipotent, capable of absurdities, so you're wrong there.

On a semi-related note, the picture you paint isn't exactly correct from where I'm sited. It's not a case of orientation per se, it's a case of what is actually happening. All spacetime is curved. Through the universe mass contorts, no exceptions. So in actuality every single line in the universe is curved. 2d exists only in theory

It's obviously silly to account for the curving in everyday life as the effects are so negligible you can consider them non-existent at these scales. Just as it would be silly to go about using the fact that you are both a wave and particles to thereby attempt walking through a wall. The effects of weirdness and uncertainty are virtually non-existent/detectable at the macro level, so much so they are ignored, but they still exist. Same thing here with geometry

And another another note related to actual motion, which every single atom in the universe is constantly engaged in. Supposing you stay still and flash a powerful laser ahead, you'll see the light follow a straight line. However, an observer from another location will see the path of the light curve because, of course, you're actually moving in other directions as well. Point is while you might think yourself moving in a straight line at any time, you actually aren't. You will be following a curved path, just like the light would, and this affects everything.

No such thing as a flat, 2d straight line in reality. (mayhaps at some yet to be discovered quantum level, but you get the point)

You have just confounded yourself even more by insisting on combining 2 different worlds: 2 & 3 Ds. So after everything, you arrived at the amazing conclusion that in our 3D world seemingly straight lines are actually curves thus no straight lines in 3D. And no "2D straight line in reality neither.

I remember our Big Bang discussion and just laughed at whether you realise that BigBangers based their theory of our real 3D universe on flatness (no curves, not even minute). Infact, according to them, the only reason light travels at a straight line is because of this flatness. So, here you are going against them here so just you can challenge me.

Fail doesn't begin to define you.

In any case, at the base we are actually saying the same thing: things change characteristics depending on perspective.

Alfa Seltzer:

You have just confounded yourself even more by insisting on combining 2 different worlds: 2 & 3 Ds. So after everything, you arrived at the amazing conclusion that in our 3D world seemingly straight lines are actually curves thus no straight lines in 3D. And no "2D straight line in reality neither.

I remember our Big Bang discussion and just laughed at whether you realise that BigBangers based their theory of our real 3D universe on flatness (no curves, not even minute). Infact, according to them, the only reason light travels at a straight line is because of this flatness. So, here you are going against them here so just you can challenge me.

Fail doesn't begin to define you.

In any case, at the base we are actually saying the same thing: things change characteristics depending on perspective.

You seem confused, oh evil one. Are you sure you understand what they mean by flat?

The model of the universe is flat, what does have to do with this? Are you saying they insist relativity, a core component of the bb, does not exist? Far as I know, most bb models don't even predict a flat universe...

Do you have but.thurt after all this time? Let's take this to that thread

I had once suffered a terrible itching of my scrutum that completely defiled all medication. One faithful wednesday evening in my church, towards the end of the service, an unexpected call was made for anyone who need a miracle, at first i didn't want to go because i wasn't expecting a miracle but the discomfort i was going through prompted me to step out. Just after a brief prayer that didn't take up to 5min, instantly the itching stop. I thought it was a lie. I quickly went to the rest room exermine myself, lo and behold i was thoughrouly healed with no traces of the symtoms any more. Miracle is a personal belief and faith, though i wasn't expecting but i believe i can be healed. Read your account of Jesus's healing, you will hear him say, your faith made you whole. It is a question of faith. If the amputee believes, what stops him from being restored. I have been to Pastor Christ's meeting where i practically witnessed healings. It is pathetic for anyone to demand for verification. If you are an atheist in dare need to clear your conscience, nothing stops you from going over to Christ embassy healing school to validate the fallibility or authenticity of these claims, except may be offcourse you are the lazy type who depend on hearsay. A miracle doesn't have to be spectacular to be supernatural. If you have never experience one b4, you will not accept one. I have experience one b4 and i appreciate God for it. I pray that one day you will be in a situation where you will need one to value God. Amen. Note: God wouldn't cause miracle for anyone to believe him. His Word is enough. A typical athiest will still have excuses even if an amputee get restored. I pray your situations will caused you to appreciate who God is. God help you.

Lordlexy: I had once suffered a terrible itching of my scrutum that completely defiled all medication. One faithful wednesday evening in my church, towards the end of the service, an unexpected call was made for anyone who need a miracle, at first i didn't want to go because i wasn't expecting a miracle but the discomfort i was going through prompted me to step out. Just after a brief prayer that didn't take up to 5min, instantly the itching stop. I thought it was a lie. I quickly went to the rest room exermine myself, lo and behold i was thoughrouly healed with no traces of the symtoms any more. Miracle is a personal belief and faith, though i wasn't expecting but i believe i can be healed. Read your account of Jesus's healing, you will hear him say, your faith made you whole. It is a question of faith. If the amputee believes, what stops him from being restored. I have been to Pastor Christ's meeting where i practically witnessed healings. It is pathetic for anyone to demand for verification. If you are an atheist in dare need to clear your conscience, nothing stops you from going over to Christ embassy healing school to validate the fallibility or authenticity of these claims, except may be offcourse you are the lazy type who depend on hearsay. A miracle doesn't have to be spectacular to be supernatural. If you have never experience one b4, you will not accept one. I have experience one b4 and i appreciate God for it. I pray that one day you will be in a situation where you will need one to value God. Amen. Note: God wouldn't cause miracle for anyone to believe him. His Word is enough. A typical athiest will still have excuses even if an amputee get restored. I pray your situations will caused you to appreciate who God is. God help you.

I'm very happy for your scrotum. It's nice to know that god is willing to scratch an itch even in the most embarrassing of places. However, this itch of yours (and your whole story) is self-reported. You could be lying (even to yourself) about the whole thing and science is useless in a matter where people can lie about their symptoms. However, I, as an atheist, give my solemn word to you that if I personally witnessed in real life (not on camera) a shirtless amputee who regrows an arm as I sit there and watch then I will believe.

People who do not believe in miracles generally do not experience them, and people who do believe in miracles seem them often. This is part of the whole psychological phenomenon called 'confirmation bias'. And there is a clear correlation between the amount of education in science a person has and the disbelief in miracles.

^^^And despite what onetrack writes Jesus may do nothing asked so he'll believe, let onetrack in hell, tell onetrack with love that he can't save onetrack's soul again and still be worshipped as all-loving.

Uyi Iredia:

Let's grant that the video is legit. The fact remains that certain miracles such as ressurection and amputee healing, especially the latter, should be as common given the promises of God in the NT as regards healing. Not that miracles would convert all atheists, but it should shut the mouths of some for awhile. Now where is a documented amputee healing. Not the one 17th centurty (or so) story brought up by Perry Marshall.

Well, once you accept one instance as legit, its a different ballgame. The question is no longer, "can it happen"? Its, what are the conditions or laws that allowed the previous occurrence, so that we can replicate it. I think this is huge in the whole issue. Because once you accept one event as being legit, it becomes easier to be an atheist than a person of faith. In other words, the burden of proof tilts massively in favor of faith. We know it has happened before, so its now a scientific quest to figure out how to do it again. The atheist on the other hand would be like the horse rider who refuses to believe in planes because he has seen only one person fly one successfully ever, many years ago.