A date was set by God for jesus to be begotten by the father,

but alas, the bible describe beget/begot/begat/beggotten, mainly through intercourse

Can you literally beget/begot/begat someone who was already existing? this is only possible through intercouse, but does God need intercourse? when he is having options including to mould human like adam and breath the breath of life in his noserills. God instead fuffil the promise of bringing a seed from Abrahams loins and was fuffiled through mary.

But the question is Can you literally beget/begot/begat someone who was already existing?

here is the eathly chronology of those beget/begot/begat/beggotten before jesus, from Abraham who receive the promise to

Their father's name placed before the child beget or responsible for the child beget/begot/begat/beggotten or born[/size]

mathew 1;2,13-16;

1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

2 Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. 14 Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. 15 Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar[b] begot [/b] Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob. 16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.

verse 6,of mathew 1, above Jesse begot David the king

while [b]Mary was of the tribe of Judah and the lineage of David (Psalm 132:11; Luke 1:32)





as you can see, the word 'beget/begot/begat/beggotten' was reserved for God, in this context, who was reserved to be credited as a father for the 'birth of jesus' but definately not through intercourse like the rest here


if jesus exist before the declaration of 'beggoten' slated 'for another day' for example,in hebrew 1:5 shows that there was a day set aside for jesus to be declared beggotten, yet 'not through intercouse' expecially before this statement

hebrew 1:5;

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”


this is an obvious hole in trinitarians claim that jesus had always been begotten of his father, but rather 'a slated day' for this declaration in heb 1:5 'rubished' that and further put weight to suggest that since this beget or born in this case cannot apply to someone who already is existing-full grown, we can

that jesus was just part or the first of the 'spirit sons' of God in heaven, since the word angel means messenger/servant as a task, spirit angels too are sons of God

we all know how

angels too are called ‘sons of God’ in Genesis, and another occasion when satan came to assemble with sons of God.

how God beget or born christ, nobody knows, but since christ and the spirit angels are Gods sons, christ is the eldest, and unique that is why he was singled out as,'beggotten',


since spirit angels and jesus are Gods sons, the firstborn christ(not yet beggotten then) was brought into the world,

hebrew 1:6

6 [size=18pt]But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, he says let angels worship him [/size]
God honored jesus among his sons to receive worship just the way an eldest son of the family are reverently recognized in some cultures, firstborn command serious respect.
But, among those Gods sons(angel), jesus is also 'a son' hebrew 1:6 not because there was intercourse of any kind. But by adoption and appointment.

Hebrews 3:1

Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him


Hebrews 1
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds

So, in nut shell, that jesus was begotten does prove that he was born through intercourse as beget defined, but by adoption jesus was appointed as Gods begotten

constructive comments will be appreciated, thanks

Adoption is maturity for responsibility . Jesus became adopted when he recieved the holyghost.

But he was declared son of God with power though the resurrection from the dead

Romans 1:4
And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

OP makes a commentary(against trinity) that Jesus(Christ) had not always been before the the declaration: "This day have I begotten thee..", yet he fails(or refuses) to recognize that the scriptures he quoted actually validates the same pre-existence that he's arguing against.

BERNIMOORE:
Hebrews 1
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds

Surely the passage above confirms Christ's pre-existence as the son of God. No??

.

okeyxyz: OP makes a commentary(against trinity) that Jesus(Christ) had not always been before the the declaration: "This day have I begotten thee..", yet he fails(or refuses) to recognize that the scriptures he quoted actually validates the same pre-existence that he's arguing against.



Surely the passage above confirms Christ's pre-existence as the son of God. No??

Im not arguing against jesus pre-existence brother, i believed that he pre-exist before coming to the earth among to be among 'the spirit sons of God' as the first of them, the question you should now answer is that;

are angels 'sons of God'?

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by[size=18pt] His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He[/size] made the worlds

1, can you see that jesus was appointed, by his father to be heir

2, through whom(jesus)[/b]also [b]He(father God)

Through whom, jesus is the appointed secretary here for the father, secretary cannot claim ownership over his boss.

that is the point im making here

BERNIMOORE:
Im not arguing against jesus pre-existence brother, i believed that he pre-exist before coming to the earth among to be among 'the spirit sons of God' as the first of them, the question you should now answer is that;

Who was Jesus and His role when He was in heaven? Since you believe His pre-existence.

are angels 'sons of God'?

Not all Angels are the sons of God i.e the fallen one. We also became sons and daugthers of God through Him.


Who was this verse talking about;
John 1:10 "10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."
Yeshua or YHWH?

Shalom!

Emusan:

Who was Jesus and His role when He was in heaven? Since you believe His pre-existence.

he was an appointed person like a secretary to the boss thats the role, note that!

Not all Angels are the sons of God i.e the fallen one.

where do you see 'the fallen one in the whole bible? why manufacturing things not existing in the bible in the first place? tell me now! if im lying quote a verse that says 'fallen one'

what we have is;fallen angels, NOT Fallen one, do you agree?

We also became sons and daugthers of God through Him.

through him, and NOT his own volition

Who was this verse talking about;
John 1:10 "10 He was in the world, [b]and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."

he still acts like secretary there following the boss commands

BERNIMOORE:
he was an appointed person like a secretary to the boss thats the role, note that!

Where do you get these ideas that Jesus was a secretary(sort of)?? What exactly do you mean- secretary?? Somebody who keeps records? organizes appointments and administrative tasks? What principle(or scripture) do you base this interpretations on??

BERNIMOORE:
where do you see 'the fallen one in the whole bible? why manufacturing things not existing in the bible in the first place? tell me now! if im lying quote a verse that says 'fallen one'

what we have is;fallen angels, NOT Fallen one, do you agree?

What is the difference between "fallen one" and "fallen angel"?? This is the pattern of understanding of the typical, law-following nairaland christain. You guys focus too much on letters instead of principles/context/spirit. Remember: "The letter killeth...". Well; if you had the spirit you wouldn't be arguing irrelevant i-dottings and t-crossings of letters and literal interpretations.

And since you guys are arguing over whether Angels are sons or not, Allow me to break it down for you.

A son is simply a somebody who is a bearer of the will\Mandates of his superior(father) and exercises them. These were the jobs of Angels, to carry out Gods mandates; Because they had the mandates of God, they also had supernatural capabilities which is granted them through these authority. Thus they are like God and are the sons of God. Now, note that they were the sons of God under the dispensation of the law; The law was the legal institution operated/allowed by God and the angels where the enforcers of these laws; hence they represented God(by mandate) and therefore were "The sons of God";

Okay fast forward to the new testament; God has moved away from the Law of Moses(law of sin and death) and unto his true law/nature, which is total liberty from the law. There is only one person whom God revealed this true nature/mandate to, thus only one person who actually did the will of the father and who was the true son of God. This was Jesus Christ, The Only Begotten. Not even the Angels had this revelation and mandate. The angels had the mandate of the law and were the sons under the dispensation of law, while Jesus had the mandate of the spirit and thus he is the son under the dispensation of the spirit of truth.

Joagbaje: Adoption is maturity for responsibility . Jesus became adopted when he recieved the holyghost.

But he was declared son of God with power though the resurrection from the dead

Romans 1:4
And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

So, his adoption was after his Resurection then. I see !

BERNIMOORE:

he was an appointed person like a secretary to the boss thats the role, note that!

Where did you get this one in the Bible, please honest answer?

where do you see 'the fallen one in the whole bible? why manufacturing things not existing in the bible in the first place? tell me now! if im lying quote a verse that says 'fallen one'

what we have is;fallen angels, NOT Fallen one, do you agree?

Bro I believe with simple term you should've understood my point there "not the fallen one" still referring to the thing I'm talking about Angels hmmmmmmmm.

through him, and NOT his own volition

Yea from Father

he still acts like secretary there following the boss commands

Tell me where you see this in the Bible.


Yet you're claiming Trinity is not in the Bible hmmmmmmm

Shalom!

okeyxyz: And since you guys are arguing over whether Angels are sons or not, Allow me to break it down for you.

A son is simply a somebody who is a bearer of the will\Mandates of his superior(father) and exercises them. These were the jobs of Angels, to carry out Gods mandates; Because they had the mandates of God, they also had supernatural capabilities which is granted them through these authority. Thus they are like God and are the sons of God. Now, note that they were the sons of God under the dispensation of the law; The law was the legal institution operated/allowed by God and the angels where the enforcers of these laws; hence they represented God(by mandate) and therefore were "The sons of God";

Okay fast forward to the new testament; God has moved away from the Law of Moses(law of sin and death) and unto his true law/nature, which is total liberty from the law. There is only one person whom God revealed this true nature/mandate to, thus only one person who actually did the will of the father and who was the true son of God. This was Jesus Christ, The Only Begotten. Not even the Angels had this revelation and mandate. The angels had the mandate of the law and were the sons under the dispensation of law, while Jesus had the mandate of the spirit and thus he is the son under the dispensation of the spirit of truth.

bolded above, how does God beget/begotten or 'born' jesus?

pls read my comment regarding beget in my opening post, was jesus beget through intercouse?

if not then jesus is not begotten by default, angels too exist through the same way that jesus exist.

The angels had the mandate of the law and were the sons under the dispensation of law

so angel that appeared to john in the new testament is carrying out his task under law? you are funny, there is NOTHING that concerns spirit angels with humans law covenant, they are servants of God the same way that jesus was a servant.

BERNIMOORE:

bolded above, how does God beget/begotten or 'born' jesus?

He spoke His word into Mary's womb and the word became flesh John 1:14

pls read my comment regarding beget in my opening post, was jesus beget through intercouse?

No!

if not then jesus is not begotten by default, angels too exist through the same way that jesus exist.

He is, but angels are not with God before the foundation of the world.

so angel that appeared to john in the new testament is carrying out his task under law? you are funny, there is NOTHING that concerns spirit angels with humans law covenant, they are servants of God the same way that jesus was a servant.

As per Bible give me the role of Jesus when He was in heaven.

Shalom!

[quote author=Emusan]
Where did you get this one in the Bible, please honest answer?

BERNIMOORE:

he was an appointed person [size=18pt]like[/size] a secretary to the boss thats the role, note that!

like is descriptive or a parrallel, ok jesus himself says this below, not because he is human but has always been loyal to carry out instructions of his father

John 5:30

"I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Bro I believe with simple term you should've understood my point there "not the fallen one" still referring to the thing I'm talking about Angels hmmmmmmmm.

then why should you say that fallen angels are not God sons when bible says they are, see it now;

Gen 6:2

that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

Jude 1:6-7
“And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

He spoke His word into Mary's womb and the word became flesh John 1:14

was jesus twice beggotten? answer pls

He is, but angels are not with God before the foundation of the world.

the bible does not tell us that jesus was beggotten twice, if you have a verse that says that, show us now!

As per Bible give me the role of Jesus when He was in heaven.

his role; he was a servant, the old testament testifies that in isaiah 42
42 [size=18pt]“Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles[/size].
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench;
He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands shall wait for His law.”
5 Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it,
Who gives breath to the people on it,
And spirit to those who walk on it:
6 “I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness,
And will hold Your hand;
[size=18pt]I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the Gentiles[/size],


[size=18pt]God was talking to jesus right there in the heaven[/size], Behold! My Servant when jesus was still in the heaven in pre-human spirit form

see the use of word 'i will' in verse 6 shows it all!

“I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness,
And will hold Your hand;
I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the Gentiles

Joagbaje: Adoption is maturity for responsibility . Jesus became adopted when he recieved the holyghost.

But he was declared son of God with power though the resurrection from the dead

Romans 1:4
And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

thank you, but do you believe that jesus was beget twice?

1cor 3:23
"In turn, You belong to christ, christ in turn belongs to God"

Mmmmmm !

We belong to christ as christians, in turn christ belong to God

@Benimoor

what do you say ? In what way does christ belong to God ?

Is it different from the way we belong to christ ?

truthislight: 1cor 3:23
"In turn, You belong to christ, christ in turn belongs to God"

Mmmmmm !

We belong to christ as christians, in turn christ belong to God

@Benimoor

what do you say ? In what way does christ belong to God ?

Is it different from the way we belong to christ ?

no, its not,

how are you doing

BERNIMOORE:

bolded above, how does God beget/begotten or 'born' jesus?

pls read my comment regarding beget in my opening post, was jesus beget through intercouse?

if not then jesus is not begotten by default, angels too exist through the same way that jesus exist.

Again you speak without understanding, using the literal interpretations of scripture(begat/begotten) instead of their spiritual and symbolic meaning and hence you are misled. To begat means to usher into a dispensation/mandate. Just like a literal birth ushers a baby into this external, physical world or when by adoption a stranger is ushered into the role/dispensation of sonship, God begetting Jesus ushers him(jesus) into his roles, whether unto the law or unto the spirit of grace. In whatever case, you are a son of whatever dispensation you were begotten(ushered/mandated) into.

so angel that appeared to john in the new testament is carrying out his task under law? you are funny, there is NOTHING that concerns spirit angels with humans law covenant, they are servants of God the same way that jesus was a servant.

Bros, I'm just gonna assume you don't read your bible, else you'd know that the law was administered by angels.

you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it." (Acts 7:53)

Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. (Galatians 3:19)

BERNIMOORE:

no, its not,

how are you doing

Oh! Thank you.

Am doing well.

Well done.

Peace.

[quote author=okeyxyz]

Again you speak without understanding, using the literal interpretations of scripture(begat/begotten) instead of their spiritual and symbolic meaning and hence you are misled. To begat means to usher into a dispensation/mandate. Just like a literal birth ushers a baby into this external, physical world or when by adoption a stranger is ushered into the role/dispensation of sonship, God begetting Jesus ushers him(jesus) into his roles, whether unto the law or unto the spirit of grace. In whatever case, you are a son of whatever dispensation you were begotten(ushered/mandated) into.

then, are you saying that angels too are not ushered into sonship, why are they automatically called 'sons of God'? the only people that enjoy beigh called 'sons of the living God' are the old isrealite under law, and you know what that means, God adopted them over all other nations as his special property,

so whats the difference here?

Bros, I'm just gonna assume you don't read your bible, else you'd know that the law was administered by angels.

you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it." (Acts 7:53)

Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. (Galatians 3:19)

i knew quite well about that verse, but my question is 'were angels bound by law covenant? thats what i mean that they are not concern, because they are messengers, but 'were angels bound by law covenant/ answer pls

@ okeyxyz

definately, angels were not bound by law covenant!

BERNIMOORE:
was jesus twice beggotten? answer pls

It's depend on what you mean by begotten, you mean born as a human or what?

the bible does not tell us that jesus was beggotten twice, if you have a verse that says that, show us now!

He was only beggotten when God spoke His word into Mary's womb. Jesus is the spoken word of God that's why He was with God BEFORE the foundation of the world (means when the universe and all his host haven't being at all)

his role; he was a servant,

As God spoken word.

1) Imagine you and your Jr Bro was in a room and you're feeling hungry and you told him "help me get a plate of rice with two meats" your Bro will do according to the command received from you.

2) Let's assume your Brother is not with you and you need that food, you then spoke into air "a plate rice with two meats come out" suddendly it appeared according to your command without moving an inch then you will realise that you only issue a COMMAND while your WORD performed the action.

3) Let's assume again your Brother isn't there and you decided not to talk what will happen, Nothing!

In 1, God didn't send anybody to do all the works of creations.

In 2, God didn't do it with His own rather He issue a command through His mouth and HIS WORD performed the actions according to His command....here God's word is like a messenger.....

In 3, Nothing will happen if God decided not to talk...that's why John 1:3 said "All things were made by him(the word); and without Him(the word) was not any thing made that was made" emphasis added. This is the reason why Jesus exists before the foundation of the world while Angels don't. John 1:1.

Finally, this God's WORD was only given a name when the WORD becam flesh....Emmanuel....God is with US.

I agree with all your quote.


Shalom!

BERNIMOORE:
was jesus twice beggotten? answer pls

It's depend on what you mean by begotten, you mean born as a human or what?

the bible does not tell us that jesus was beggotten twice, if you have a verse that says that, show us now!

He was only beggotten when God spoke His word into Mary's womb. Jesus is the spoken word of God that's why He was with God BEFORE the foundation of the world (means when the universe and all his host haven't being at all)

his role; he was a servant,

As God spoken word.

1) Imagine you and your Jr Bro was in a room and you're feeling hungry and you told him "help me get a plate of rice with two meats" your Bro will do according to the command received from you.

2) Let's assume your Brother is not with you and you need that food, you then spoke into air "a plate rice with two meats come out" suddendly it appeared according to your command without moving an inch then you will realise that you only issue a COMMAND while your WORD performed the action.

3) Let's assume again your Brother isn't there and you decided not to talk what will happen, Nothing!

In 1, God didn't send anybody to do all the works of creations.

In 2, God didn't do it with His own rather He issue a command through His mouth and HIS WORD performed the actions according to His command....here God's word is like a messenger.....

In 3, Nothing will happen if God decided not to talk...that's why John 1:3 said "All things were made by him(the word); and without Him(the word) was not any thing made that was made" emphasis added. This is the reason why Jesus exists before the foundation of the world while Angels don't. John 1:1.

Finally, this God's WORD was only given a name when the WORD becam flesh....Emmanuel....God is with US.

I agree with all your quote.


Shalom!

can i have a chat with you?

i ve got some stuff, how about that?

send your message to my e-mails, i will reply you

@Emusan

It's depend on what you mean by begotten, you mean born as a human or what?



He was only beggotten when God spoke His word into Mary's womb. Jesus is the spoken word of God that's why He was with God BEFORE the foundation of the world (means when the universe and all his host haven't being at all)

you are including the universe now, lets keep tothe world first, God DID not start his own existence with the beggining of the world, while jesus always mark his own existence with 'when' or during the 'time' the world's or earth or human's beggining. 'when he streched the mountains,i was there' or 'before abraham was'

1) Imagine you and your Jr Bro was in a room and you're feeling hungry and you told him "help me get a plate of rice with two meats" your Bro will do according to the command received from you.

are you saying that God will be helpless or miserable without his son?

(2) Let's assume your Brother is not with you and you need that food, you then spoke into air "a plate rice with two meats come out" suddendly it appeared according to your command without moving an inch then you will realise that you only issue a COMMAND while your WORD performed the action.

3) Let's assume again your Brother isn't there and you decided not to talk what will happen, Nothing!

assumptions on hold for now pls

In 1, God didn't send anybody to do all the works of creations

.

in 1=you told him "help me get a plate of rice with two meats" your Bro will do according to the command received from you so following command does not mean that you are 'sent'? i dont understand

In 2, God didn't do it with His own rather He issue a command through His mouth

when someone is in a position to issue a command, then the person is in a position of authority, im i correct?

and HIS WORD performed the actions according to His command

how can a mere 'word of mouth itself' perform a task? that is how i understand it pls

....here God's word is like a messenger.....

if Gods word is like a messenger here, is it to himself or to another one's authority?
[/quote]

In 3, Nothing will happen if God decided not to talk.

yes..

that's why John 1:3 said "All things were made by him(the word); and without Him(the word) was not any thing made that was made"

anything here can also include jesus the word himself, did he made himself? i need an answer pls

Finally, this God's WORD was only given a name when the WORD becam flesh....Emmanuel....God is with US.

yes, i agree too with that

YOU GUYS ARE ARGUING WITH THIS NONE CHRISTIAN LET ME ANSWER HIM IN THE BEGNING WAS THE WORD THE WORD WAS GOD EVERYTHING WAS CREATED WITH THE WORD.THE WORD WAS GOD .ANOTHER QUOTATION IS FOR GOD LOVE THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTEN SON FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE WILL HAVE ETERNAL LIVE,YES WE ARE SONS OF GOD BECOS WE BELIEVE IN JESUS.ANY CHRISTIAN DAT IS COMPARING JESUS WITH ANGELS WHICH MEANS MESSENGERS OF GOD IS NOT WORTHY TO BE CALLED A CHRISTIAN,THE MYSTERY OF CHRISTIANITY LIES IN THE TRINITY

BERNIMOORE:
you are including the universe now, lets keep to the world first,

World as in? World is also universe.

God DID not start his own existence with the beggining of the world,

Confirm! I totally agree with you.

while jesus always mark his own existence with 'when' or during the 'time' the world's or earth or human's beggining.

No! Even your next statement refutes this. In John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with you (together with yourself) thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was(before time start). Emphasis added.

'when he streched the mountains, i was there' or 'before abraham was'

This indicate that Jesus was with God before Universe begins.

are you saying that God will be helpless or miserable without his son?

You'll get it better by replacing 'His Son' with 'His Word', my answer is NO! because He created everything by His Word Heb 11:3. And this WORD only become a flesh in the person of Jesus.

assumptions on hold for now pls

I didn't but that's the way it is.

in 1you told him "help me get a plate of rice with two meats" your Bro will do according to the command received from you so following command does not mean that you are 'sent'? i dont understand

Following a command shows that you're sent, that's why Jesus always refers to His Father.

when someone is in a position to issue a command, then the person is in a position of authority, im i correct?

Absolutely, you're correct.

how can a mere 'word of mouth itself' perform a task? that is how i understand it pls

Then you're limiting the attribute of God 'Omni-potent' and the is how you will know that God is not like a human.

How possible for a virgin to conceived?
How possible for denser body float on water?
How possible for lifeless body after three comes back to life without decomposed. All this are question our finite knowledge need answers to about All powerful God.

if Gods word is like a messenger here, is it to himself or to another one's authority?

To God Himself, but your word is also you and nobody can seperate your word from you.

anything here can also include jesus the word himself, did he made himself? i need an answer pls

He is the spoken word of God.....All things was created through Him(Jesus) John 1:10 "He(Jesus) was in the world, and the world was made by Him(Jesus), and the world knew Him(Jesus) not"

yes, i agree too with that

Good, God turn His own WORD into flesh by sending Him into the world in a person of Jesus Christ John 1:14

@Emusan

No! Even your next statement refutes this. In John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with you (together with yourself) thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was(before time start). Emphasis added.

emphasis here too can be misleading, 'if glorify thou me with you' in john 17:5 above means 'together with yourself thine own self with the glory which I had with thee then believers to are included 'with that glory with father the same way jesus had the glory and he shared it with believers,

the same book of john 17:22, this time verse 20-22 the same glory was extended to believers, verse 21 nail the head directly that "all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us"

john 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one

so how can the use of word 'glory' the same greek word used for the belivers indicate that Jesus was with God before Universe begins, then believers too sharing in the same glory are with God before the universe begins, how do you see that.

maybe the use of the word glory here means 'unity in purpose'!

You'll get it better by replacing 'His Son' with 'His Word', my answer is NO! because He created everything by His Word Heb 11:3. And this WORD only become a flesh in the person of Jesus.

so what you mean now is 'Gods utterance word of his mouth' if that is the case that Gods 'utterance word of his mouth only become a flesh in the person of Jesus

then whose word was heard in Very LOUD when jesus was baptised, telling people "This is my Son" and listen to jesus? here is the account,below

Mark 9:7
Then a cloud appeared and covered them, and a voice came from the cloud: "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!"

Matthew 17:5
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"

can you kindly answer that pls.

Then you're limiting the attribute of God 'Omni-potent' and the is how you will know that God is not like a human.

How possible for a virgin to conceived?
How possible for denser body float on water?
How possible for lifeless body after three comes back to life without decomposed. All this are question our finite knowledge need answers to about All powerful God.

before we attach God with a concept 'Omni-potent', is that word 'Omni-potent' ever found in the bible? no is the answer, yes God is the most powerful but his extents should not be by qualified using words not found in the bible. it can be misleading!

To God Himself, but your word is also you and nobody can seperate your word from you.He is the spoken word of God.....All things was created through Him(Jesus) John 1:10 "He(Jesus) was in the world, and the world was made by Him(Jesus), and the world knew Him(Jesus) not"

when jesus came to the world, as Gods own word, then we should not have had ANOTHER WORD that command CLOUD from heaven to cover them and say in loud words 'you are my son' listen to him, this shows that God can do things on his own without jesus, how do you see that?