Candour:

Bidam, pls understand my point. Image tried to hang Christemmbassey's position on most against tithe and I brought in your example to show there are different beliefs. Where did I condemn your practice there?

Pls don't make my post say what I didn't say

christemmbassey: its a fun to see tithe collectors on the defensive! Ah what a sweet feeling. Bidam, ok we've seen a sign of repentance, we will see what we can do.

Bidam: Your post was actually judgmental bro. There was never a time i condemned antithers when we don't agree on elementary doctrinal issues such as the tithe.Heck! i don't even condemn people who don't believe God exist.

Candour:

Why not wait for me to say that before jumping to conclusions for me? This was a reference made to stop generalization. Pls treat it as such.

When both of us want to start condemning one another, I'm sure we both know how to start.

Pastor Kun: @Christemmbassey & idnoble

Been following your altercations and I must say that I agree with Christembassey on this issue. Given the level of havoc this false tithe doctrine is causing in the church today and the tenacity with which they preach it, it is not too much if we open ten threads a day to teach people the truth about tithes. That given I have been inspired to open two more tithe threads we can't relent on our oars until all the captives are set free.

Bidam: DID YOU CALL ME A SELF RIGHTEOUS INDIVIDUAL AND A LEGALIST? YES OR NO?

I don't see IT as sin but as burdensome legalism and self righteousness

Pastor Kun: @Christemmbassey & idnoble

Been following your altercations and I must say that I agree with Christembassey on this issue. Given the level of havoc this false tithe doctrine is causing in the church today and the tenacity with which they preach it, it is not too much if we open ten threads a day to teach people the truth about tithes. That given I have been inspired to open two more tithe threads we can't relent on our oars until all the captives are set free.

Image123:
DEBOOOOOOOO, hope you can read the first line? This is the view of most antitithers here BTW, not the lip service they were paying in Ola's thread.

Candour:

Pls don't generalise. How many opinions have you sampled? Is paying tithe of prayers, praise and time also your practice as said by one of my tithe paying brothers?

I do not see it as sin but as burdensome legalism and self righteousness

Candour:

Pls don't generalise. How many opinions have you sampled? Is paying tithe of prayers, praise and time also your practice as said by one of my tithe paying brothers?

I do not see it as sin but as burdensome legalism and self righteousness

Image123:
i said MOST, not ALL. i know what i am saying. i know kunle, zikky, gosh nd co's views and drive. i've read them talk tithe for years.

christemmbassey: I'm only agreeing with what d jew's leader in nora544 postwas saying in Ola's thread, d levites were commanded to collect tithes, therefor if u pay tithes to a nigerian, u n d naija pastor av commited SIN, BC UE IS NOT A LEVITE, worst if u pay to a female pastor.

nora544: The rabbi then gave me some information on the method that many Jews use today to secure adequate funds with which to operate their religious organizations. He went on to say that the activities of his synagogue were financially supported through the adoption of the "patron system" by its members. That is, families would buy seats in the synagogue for various prices each year. The rabbi mentioned that many of his congregation actually paid more than a tenth of their income to get better seats in the synagogue. This method for raising funds is perfectly proper (from the biblical point of view) if Jews wish to use it. This is because the money is paid to the synagogue and not to an ordained Levitical priesthood.

Alwaystrue: I will really like people to go and read the whole chapters in Malachi which shows the where God spoke to the whole of Israel before the New testament scriptures.

He spoke about His messenger that would be coming to prepare the way. He spoke again about marriage about marriage and hating divorce, he spoke once again about bringing judgement on those who oppress the widows, orphans and workers (In other words, those that refuse to care for them)- there was even an OT judgement for those who don't give to the poor so it is not even about NT only.

He was against the levites for the things they did wrong and departed from Him. He spoke about people who vow one thing and do another. He talked about tithe and offering together. And was angry for the people that did not bring offerings. I want to correct the erroneous believe that that scripture was talking to the Levites because He spoke about the blessing 'NOT ALLOWING THE DEVOURER TO DESTROY THE FRUIT OF THEIR GROUNDS' AND 'THEIR VINES NOT CASTING THEIR FRUIT BEFORE ITS TIME IN THE FIELD' of which we know THE LEVITES DID NOT FARM. So the scripture was for the whole of Israel.

Then in Chapter 4, He told the Israelites not to forget His laws, statutes & judgements which He gave on Horeb in Exodus chapter 20 to chapter 24.

Now this is where it gets interesting:
God gave His commandments with His own voice in Exodus 20:1-17 and after that the people refused to hear His voice and begged Moses to continue lest they die. Then Moses started reeling out the judgements from Exodus chapters 21 to 23.

In chapter 24....see scriptures that showed what Moses did:

Exodus 24
3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do.
4 And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient .
8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words .

Now do these scriptures sound familiar to you:
Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

Are you looking for the ordinances contrary to us? Check the judgements (also called ordinances) in Exodus 21. Jesus had even started abolishing them while He was alive for He spoke in Matthew 5....eye for an eye and so on.
If you read the end of Exodus 23, you will see where God spoke about enemies from Exodus 23:22 and how the wall of enmity was already drawn right from then against the gentiles.
The handwriting of ordinances against us is that which Moses wrote and the people agreed to and Moses made a convenant with so it would stand against them as a judgement! The judgement in this sense is what happens to them when they disobey those ordinances. This is what Jesus took away nailing to the cross....The ordinances or judgement agaisnt them and please note that the 10 commandments was not part of this that was nailed.



Now the third chapter of Malachi, God spoke of tithes and offerings. Tithe was also given by Abraham prior to then. When Jesus came, He also commended both tithe and offering. Nowhere was this abolished, He even said it should not be left undone. Infact if you look at the laws Jesus spoke about, alot was relating to the ones His Father specifically gave and the ones regarding the mount of Horeb.
At Jesus death, He became our offering for sin/atonement so every offering that relate to sin and atonement (purifying) are no longer required because Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice.
Tithe & thank offerings or gifts were never to atone but in appreciation of what God has given them or yielded or gave to them. It is an appreciation of blessing to God and God still blesses again. So it if funny to tithe on a loan that was never yours or tithe on what you do not have to even give.
Paul himself gave alms and offerings in Acts 24:17 and referred to the tithes and offerings used in the ministry of the Levitical priesthood in I Corinthians 9.

He also raised an offering for poor saints in II Corinthians 9. Infact I noticed that people do not quote the whole chapter so I will just do that here:

II Corinthians 9:3-7
3 But I am sending these brothers to be sure you really are ready, as I have been telling them, and that your money is all collected. I don’t want to be wrong in my boasting about you. 4 We would be embarrassed—not to mention your own embarrassment—if some Macedonian believers came with me and found that you weren’t ready after all I had told them! 5 So I thought I should send these brothers ahead of me to make sure the gift you promised is ready. But I want it to be a willing gift, not one given grudgingly.

6 Remember this—a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop. 7 You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.” [/b]
Paul had already boasted of their giving and did not want to be embarrased....and he also first said they that sow sparingly will reap sparingly. I have noticed this scripture is widely avoided by many. It seems they feel compelled when they see it to give.
Paul understood sowing and reaping using seeds and crops and could relate it easily to giving this welfare offering. However, many still do not understand that while the givings in the OT were of crops, their blessings were also related to crops. It is so strange that they cannot still put two and two together. And this giving was not of compulsion but remember God too had a judgement for those who did not care even for the needy per Malachi.

When Paul was speaking about how the ministry of the old were cared for by the tithes and offerings, He knew it was agric produce before He said it was the same principle that the Lord commanded in the new. And He was not talking of the poor in that chapter even though they are still required to give to the poor. In Hebrews 7 what He just showed was the priesthood had NOW changed from the Levites to the priesthood of Jesus Christ after the order of Melchisedek and the law that made ONLY Levites priest has been annulled. (Exodus 40:15)

In all, everything good thing is to be done in Faith and with a willing mind. NOTHING IS COMPULSORY, even giving to the poor or parents but at the end of the day, God is not mocked for what we sow is what we will reap. There is nothing to fear in that.

I am sorry for the long post but I had to just summarise my stand.
Thank you and remain blessed.

christemmbassey: i agree. But bro, why isd church in nigeria like this? Is it bc we open too much anti-tithe threads on Nl? Why is every church burying humans b4 puting up a building, why are christians d worst/most currupt leaders in govt. Why must ppl continue to steal money n give to church n d pastors shamelessly hold on to d money n refuse to return? It greed, and tithe is d main oga. As we open more n more threads on this tithe fraud, we hope more will b set free including d tithe collectors. Finally, ave u notice the shifting of ground by d pro-tithe group in Nl? Today they accept at least in principle, that tithe should nt b forced on ppl(only God knows wether this is what they say in their churches) but dat was nt what they said in d begining. Why? Bc, these anti tithe thread have exposed d truth and force them to slow down, so bro, go ahead and open threads on other christian values, n i'll join u, but for tithe fraud n it damaging effects, NO RETREAT, NO SURRENDER! God bless u, sir.

Image123: @Alwaystrue
Thanks and well done. Folks like zikky, kunle and gosh cannot claim not to ave read what you've said before. Hopefully, they will hear this time. God bless you.

Image123:
There is no shifting of grounds but a clarification that arose from mischievous attempts to misrepresent and misinterprete what we are saying.

Image123:
Most issues and threads come up as questions to the tither. 'Many' folks come up and read 15 -60 pages of a thread on tithe, and say "I have gained a lot on this thread, but my question is".

Image123:
A pastor/teacher teaches what God has taught nd revealed to him.

Image123:
i do not see preachers preach tithe and force people to it or condemn people for it.

Image123:
The real issue is, how much more have you loved and served God with your decision, watever it is?

Image123:
These are the things to drive for, not go and tithe, or don't tithe. Christ didi not die to save anyone from giving tithe.

Alwaystrue: I will really like people to go and read the whole chapters in Malachi which shows the where God spoke to the whole of Israel before the New testament scriptures.

He spoke about His messenger that would be coming to prepare the way. He spoke again about marriage about marriage and hating divorce, he spoke once again about bringing judgement on those who oppress the widows, orphans and workers (In other words, those that refuse to care for them)- there was even an OT judgement for those who don't give to the poor so it is not even about NT only.

He was against the levites for the things they did wrong and departed from Him. He spoke about people who vow one thing and do another. He talked about tithe and offering together. And was angry for the people that did not bring offerings. I want to correct the erroneous believe that that scripture was talking to the Levites because He spoke about the blessing 'NOT ALLOWING THE DEVOURER TO DESTROY THE FRUIT OF THEIR GROUNDS' AND 'THEIR VINES NOT CASTING THEIR FRUIT BEFORE ITS TIME IN THE FIELD' of which we know THE LEVITES DID NOT FARM. So the scripture was for the whole of Israel.

Then in Chapter 4, He told the Israelites not to forget His laws, statutes & judgements which He gave on Horeb in Exodus chapter 20 to chapter 24.

Now this is where it gets interesting:
God gave His commandments with His own voice in Exodus 20:1-17 and after that the people refused to hear His voice and begged Moses to continue lest they die. Then Moses started reeling out the judgements from Exodus chapters 21 to 23.

In chapter 24....see scriptures that showed what Moses did:

Exodus 24
3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do.
4 And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient .
8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words .

Now do these scriptures sound familiar to you:
Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

Are you looking for the ordinances contrary to us? Check the judgements (also called ordinances) in Exodus 21. Jesus had even started abolishing them while He was alive for He spoke in Matthew 5....eye for an eye and so on.
If you read the end of Exodus 23, you will see where God spoke about enemies from Exodus 23:22 and how the wall of enmity was already drawn right from then against the gentiles.
The handwriting of ordinances against us is that which Moses wrote and the people agreed to and Moses made a convenant with so it would stand against them as a judgement! The judgement in this sense is what happens to them when they disobey those ordinances. This is what Jesus took away nailing to the cross....The ordinances or judgement agaisnt them and please note that the 10 commandments was not part of this that was nailed.



Now the third chapter of Malachi, God spoke of tithes and offerings. Tithe was also given by Abraham prior to then. When Jesus came, He also commended both tithe and offering. Nowhere was this abolished, He even said it should not be left undone. Infact if you look at the laws Jesus spoke about, alot was relating to the ones His Father specifically gave and the ones regarding the mount of Horeb.
At Jesus death, He became our offering for sin/atonement so every offering that relate to sin and atonement (purifying) are no longer required because Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice.
Tithe & thank offerings or gifts were never to atone but in appreciation of what God has given them or yielded or gave to them. It is an appreciation of blessing to God and God still blesses again. So it if funny to tithe on a loan that was never yours or tithe on what you do not have to even give.
Paul himself gave alms and offerings in Acts 24:17 and referred to the tithes and offerings used in the ministry of the Levitical priesthood in I Corinthians 9.

He also raised an offering for poor saints in II Corinthians 9. Infact I noticed that people do not quote the whole chapter so I will just do that here:

II Corinthians 9:3-7
3 But I am sending these brothers to be sure you really are ready, as I have been telling them, and that your money is all collected. I don’t want to be wrong in my boasting about you. 4 We would be embarrassed—not to mention your own embarrassment—if some Macedonian believers came with me and found that you weren’t ready after all I had told them! 5 So I thought I should send these brothers ahead of me to make sure the gift you promised is ready. But I want it to be a willing gift, not one given grudgingly.

6 Remember this—a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop. 7 You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.” [/b]
Paul had already boasted of their giving and did not want to be embarrased....and he also first said they that sow sparingly will reap sparingly. I have noticed this scripture is widely avoided by many. It seems they feel compelled when they see it to give.
Paul understood sowing and reaping using seeds and crops and could relate it easily to giving this welfare offering. However, many still do not understand that while the givings in the OT were of crops, their blessings were also related to crops. It is so strange that they cannot still put two and two together. And this giving was not of compulsion but remember God too had a judgement for those who did not care even for the needy per Malachi.

When Paul was speaking about how the ministry of the old were cared for by the tithes and offerings, He knew it was agric produce before He said it was the same principle that the Lord commanded in the new. And He was not talking of the poor in that chapter even though they are still required to give to the poor. In Hebrews 7 what He just showed was the priesthood had NOW changed from the Levites to the priesthood of Jesus Christ after the order of Melchisedek and the law that made ONLY Levites priest has been annulled. (Exodus 40:15)

In all, everything good thing is to be done in Faith and with a willing mind. NOTHING IS COMPULSORY, even giving to the poor or parents but at the end of the day, God is not mocked for what we sow is what we will reap. There is nothing to fear in that.

I am sorry for the long post but I had to just summarise my stand.
Thank you and remain blessed.

Image123:

There is no shifting of grounds but a clarification that arose from mischievous attempts to misrepresent and misinterprete what we are saying. Most issues and threads come up as questions to the tither. 'Many' folks come up and read 15 -60 pages of a thread on tithe, and say "I have gained a lot on this thread, but my question is". And then the handle asks some set of qestions that have already been answered BTW. Then the copular antitithers will start rejoicing and quoting and making baseless predicitons that tht question(s) has never and will never be answered. Its the ever learning and never able syndrome i suppose.
A pastor/teacher teaches what God has taught nd revealed to him. i do not see preachers preach tithe and force people to it or condemn people for it. Jesus said not to condemn anyone. The real issue is, how much more have you loved and served God with your decision, watever it is? In the past three months, have you experienced the liberty of giving out more than ten percent, or you are just an hypocrite who will not go in and will not allow others to? Have you become a better person? These are the things to drive for, not go and tithe, or don't tithe. Christ didi not die to save anyone from giving tithe.

christemmbassey: image123, if u r in nigeria and u say u've never withness a pastor or u urself force, intimidate or cuse ppl with mal 3 to pay tithe, u r a big liar. Its good to see change of gear from d tithe crew, now u guys av accepted dat tithe eventhough wrong should not b forced on ppl, thats a great joy for us. God bless.

christemmbassey: image123, if u r in nigeria and u say u've never withness a pastor or u urself force, intimidate or cuse ppl with mal 3 to pay tithe, u r a big liar. Its good to see change of gear from d tithe crew, now u guys av accepted dat tithe eventhough wrong should not b forced on ppl, thats a great joy for us. God bless.

christemmbassey: THERE IS NO SINGLE VERSE IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE WHERE CHRISTIANS ARE COMMANDED TO PAY TITHE TO GOD, JESUS, PASTOR OR CHURCH. So if ur husband is a pastor collect or you are collecting tithe, pls stop, u're commiting SIN, BC NEITHER YOU NOR UR husband IS A LEVITE. God bless.

Alwaystrue: .....
Now do these scriptures sound familiar to you:
Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

Are you looking for the ordinances contrary to us? Check the judgements (also called ordinances) in Exodus 21. Jesus had even started abolishing them while He was alive for He spoke in Matthew 5....eye for an eye and so on.
If you read the end of Exodus 23, you will see where God spoke about enemies from Exodus 23:22 and how the wall of enmity was already drawn right from then against the gentiles.
The handwriting of ordinances against us is that which Moses wrote and the people agreed to and Moses made a convenant with so it would stand against them as a judgement! The judgement in this sense is what happens to them when they disobey those ordinances. This is what Jesus took away nailing to the cross....The ordinances or judgement agaisnt them and please note that the 10 commandments was not part of this that was nailed.
.

Image123: 1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

LET EVERY ONE OF YOU- freewill?
AS GOD HAS PROSPERED- proprtional?

Image123: 1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

LET EVERY ONE OF YOU- freewill?
AS GOD HAS PROSPERED- proprtional?

[quote author=Candour]

My sister Alwaystrue, read your post. Can't do step by step analysis now but the quote above stood out to me. My sister, ORDINANCES are DECREES and are also laws howbeit bye laws if you want.If they are laws, then they are enforceable. This is the reason I'll always bring you back to Matt 23:1-3 where Christ said to obey all the religious leaders bade you obey. That verse say Christ nailed them to the cross and that includes tithing.

Tithe was not a part of the 10 so why is tithe so special?

The argument of Abram holds no water because when Mal 3, and Christ in Matt 23 talk, they EVIDENTLY referred to Mosaic law. It is an UNTRUTH to say otherwise

Paul made reference to Temple and Altar in Corinthians and I repeat here, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between Temple and altar.

Only Priests got to the altar

Only Priests and their families ate of the altar

Levites work in and around the temple but have no business with the altar(except assisting the priests, cleaning and general maintenance). The priests(sons of Aaron) own the operations of the altar. Tithes come to the Levites at the temple and only 10% of tithes which are called heave offerings make it to the altar. Paul knew what he was saying when he made that demarcation.

Read Num Chapters 3 & 4 to get the duties of the Priests and Levites and Num 18 to see how God apportioned entitlements.

Priests are levites, not all levites are priests. The altar is in the temple not all parts of the temple are altars.

Tithe has no place in Christianity because it is legalistic but Christianity is all about free will giving.God gave freely so we are to give freely and cheerfully too.

EDIT.

Bidam:
the Abrahamic covenant is still in force even if it is once and for all tithe.

Bidam:
Levi still operated the covenant by tithing to melchizedek in Abrahams lions.

Zikkyy:

Bidam, you are telling us God signed a tithing agreement with Abraham? i like to know the bible version you are using o!

seriously you guys gat no shame dishing out a lie so obvious even to non believers.



I don't see the relevance in your tithing scheme. applying your logic, even Christ tithed to melchizedek because he was also in Abraham loins. you can see you are not making sense. You guys truly have big problem understanding what you read in bible.