plaetton: Does god exist withing the universe that he created , or does he sit outside the universe?

thehomer:

In what sense does God exist? That I think is the fundamental question that needs to be answered before making sense of the topic.

Does he exist in the way fictional characters like Lord Voldemort exist? Or does he exist as a metaphor in the way Einstein viewed him? Or like the metaphor of death as the Grim Reaper? Or does he exist as an abstract object like judgement? Or by definition like numbers? Or does he exist like ordinary humans within the universe? Or in some other way that needs to be clarified before continuing the discussion?

In what way does he exist at all before we say he is within or outside the universe?

Reyginus: Lol. And space is not a part of the universe? A principal thing you should observe is, when we say the universe is expanding, in what respect does it fall. Simply, we can only know it is expanding when there is an increase in the space. Now tell me, how do we know that the universe is expanding?
Let me make something clear here. When entities evolve, the aim is usually to become better. To perform better than they were. So, once God evolves it will only entail that He is still trying to be perfect. He is being perfected. This means God is incomplete and also not self-sufficient, He is not responsible for His Evolution and thus there must be something greater than Him. Can God experience evolution and still be God?

Reyginus: I do not subcribe to Kant or Liebniz, neither do I think that Newton should be taken seriously when considering space. Where then do we now place Albert Einstein whose theory of relativity summarizes the concept of space-time? Newton is no authority here. According to Einsteins Relativity, which has been proven to be true, mass, space and time are connected. Space is not nothing as you will have it to mean but a construct to represent regions dominated by energy. It is not nothing as you describe nothing.

Reyginus: I didn't say that space is matter or energy, but a construct to define any region they occupy. So, it is now a question of commonsense. If we agree that matter expands, we will have no option but also to agree that the region it is occupying must also be expanding. It is just commonsense to see so.

Reyginus: I still repeat, the universe does not exist in space. Space exists because something exist. It cannot exist if there is a void. And frankly speaking, I think we need a link on the big bang and also Einstein's theory of General and Special Relativity. It will help solve so many difficiences here.

Reyginus: You see, anyhow you want to turn it, you end showing that space cannot exist where there is no energy. In the beginning of everything, our singularity was never built from a space but matter within it was creating space, so how then will we now say that the universe is sitting on space. I don't know if you are getting me. Let me cut it down. Our universe began to exist when clumps of bodies incorporated nto a single element. At that instant, nothing besides this singularity was existing. I mean nothing. And nothing was happening too. Time was equal to zero. But as moments passed by, there was increase in the singularity, thus the creation of space and change began, beginning time. So, if space existed as a product of the expansion of the singularity, which was the universe, it cannot then be where the universe is expanding to.
Is there such a thing?

Reyginus: Please let's be sincere here. How can you say that something which is always in the process of becoming is unchanging and perfect? Then of what use do things evolve if not to become better.

Reyginus: No. This is like the skin of an elephant, too hard to chew and not really of great taste. If you checked, you would have seen that manifestation and change are two different things. When a thing manifests, it exercises its essence but when a thing changes, it will no longer manifest the way it has always done. I can pour or teach what I am conversant with, it doesn't who I am. But when I change, I am no longer who I am. God is the 'I am who I am'.

Reyginus: Good for you.

Reyginus: I think you will end up nailing yourself. Can one really explain that the concept he is trying to describe is contradicting, using the principle of non-contradiction? As in, can you really tell with logic that what you are trying to explain is the illogical but arrived at through logic?

Reyginus: I know little of Zeno. Please, tell me more about his ship.

Reyginus: I no little of identity too.

Reyginus: You stretch it too much here. One thing is certain in the three stages. You are a person. But talk of the same person, it doesn't matter what the people say, the truth is that you are not. As a child, your voice was very tiny and soft, so was your skin too, you were lacking in the secondary sexual characters, and you mental capacity was still developing.
As a teenager, your voice becomes thicker, you develop anatomically, your skin becomes less soft, and you capacity for mental exercises develop.
As an adult, your anatomy move from better to good. You becoming more responsible for catering of so many needs. Not only do all this happen, socially, ethically and psychologically we experience some change.
Do you mean to tell me that these are one and the same? Do you call a child s man, or a man a child if they are the same thing?

Reyginus: Lol. How can a God which you hold to be perfect contradict himself? Haba! Contradiction is an evidence of imperfection. Imperfection is not perfection.

Reyginus: Lol. This doesn't answer the question: ' I am my hand and not my body and also differently, that I am my entire body and not my hand'. . It smartly shifts it.

Rossikk:

I see it like this: God is in all there is, yet can condense into a single soul or consciousness simultaneously with his all-encompassing character. It's a bit like several files being condensed into a zip file. That zip file is God the person. The various files and folders contained in the zip file constitute 'the universe'. Or perhaps even 'the universes'. Including all of life and intelligent existence. But the zip file has its personality - a compendium of all the personalities in its files and folders - and can present itself anywhere in person, as God!

Reyginus: Lol. It is simple. I know the universe has an outer layer which is not in the universe.

Chibuebem: God cannot be quantified. God fills all things in all. That is bibilical. The fact that God fills all things in all DOES NOT mean he is a physical quantity. God is a person whom our words cannot measure up. Even the words he describes himself with are boundless stores of limitless power: I AM THAT I AM
I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last
I am he that liveth, and was dead; behold, I am alive forever more, Amen; and I have the keys of hell and of death

Almighty is not to be reckoned with.
Man could not have thought of these names.

aManFromMars:

I doubt even you can make sense of this post. You just illustrated your ignorance about who God is. All you did was repeat a bunch of abstract terms that only helps to spread even more confusion.

Chibuebem: lol. How can I not make sense of a post I made?? No, you have just confirmed my post. God cannot be quantified by our frail human minds. You got confused mehn. Like I said, the names(which you call abstract terms) he calls himself are boundless stores of limitless power and wonder. That's why you're confused.

Uyi Iredia: My last response.

Uyi Iredia:
Expansion involves an increase in a region of space not space. You are confusing the region of space occupied by a material with space. I understand God evolving in the universe as an expression of its perfection, He molds the universe in accordance to his will whilst remaining the solely perfect being.

Uyi Iredia:
Neither does Einstein enthrall me, what he says I think sensible I accept, what I think silly I dismiss: of course, your definition of space is inane to me.

Uyi Iredia:
Agreed. Expansion involves an increase in a region of matter. All matter bar none exist in a defined region. But an increase in these region doesn't apply to space, which the region exists in.

Uyi Iredia:
No space exists whether or not something (matter) exists: where there is no matter, space or nothing is the 'something' that persists: BB and relativity will muddle things.

Uyi Iredia:
Given your understanding of space as regions of matter you are right. But my stance is that regions of matter exist in space, not otherwise. Your question is in sync with those of some physicists and I find it silly, it is commonsense and fact that there has to be an unoccupied space for matter to expand into.

Uyi Iredia:
Because it has a perfect and unchanged state from which its becoming springs: like goals and results in mind being carried out.

Uyi Iredia:
And from I am springs many 'ams'.



Hokey-dokey.




You do this intuitively without knowing it. I fear an explanation will muddle things more. But consider this, non-contradiction is rendered moot because our conception of a thing is not the thing, and both exist at once.

Uyi Iredia:
He came up with some paradoxes, I don't think the ship ish was by him. Please Google it.

Uyi Iredia:
Which suggests you either didn't minor in philisophy or didn't take it seriously.

Uyi Iredia:
And yet you always refer to yourself using 'me', 'I' or your name as if your are the same person.

Uyi Iredia:
If God cannot contradict, or be imprefect, He is imperfect or flawed in that regard: remember yin-yang and their place in Dao, that forms a crucial part of my conception of God.

Uyi Iredia:
I see then, I will then be blunt: Both are true.

Logicboy03:


See how lying has carried you far into foolishness?

Mr Troll: Ok. Since you are not confused, can you answer the OP? does God exists within or outside this universe? Pls make your answer as brief as possible. . .

Reyginus: See this one o! Can you dispute the statement?

Chibuebem: God is everywhere. He fills all things in all. Since you didn't see that in my previous post.

Now answer my question: define the boundaries of the universe and its properties.

Mr Troll: what the heck is everywhere? Everywhere within or outside the universe? WITHIN OR OUTSIDE?
Or is he both within and outside?

Chibuebem: should I answer the question the third time?
Answer my question first.

Here's the meaning of everywhere:

adv.
1 in every place.

Logicboy03:


simple- what is te outer layer of the universe made of?

Mr Troll: No offense but your answer is not clear. I don't see how your question is relevant to this discussion but i'll answer it to the best of my knowledge but first make your answer clear. Is he WITHIN, OUTSIDE or BOTH WITHIN AND OUTSIDE the universe? I'm afraid just saying everywhere is not going to cut it this time. . .

Chibuebem: he is everywhere; within, outside, everywhere. Now answer my question

Mr Troll: your answer: The observable universe has no known boundaries. I use observable because scientists are aware that there may exists parts of the universe that is not observable and may never be observable in the infinite future. This is because what we can observe as of now are actually light rays from the distant past of stars and galaxies and since the universe is currently expanding, then it is reasonable to expect that the parts of the universe not currently observable will not be visible infinitely because their light rays will never reach the cosmological horizon which is about 46-47 billion light years away. . .
As for its properties, all the observable universe is made of matter. Now can you pls tell me what relevance this question has to the topic at hand?

Btw, do you realise that if God exists within this universe then he is bound by spacetime and as such cannot be said to be eternal or the First Cause?

Chibuebem: you see, you do not know God. He is almighty, the creator, he is not bound by the fundamental laws of the universe. He is the CREATOR of the universe. He can manifest anywhere as he pleases. I'd reverence him if I were you. I love telling people about this awesome God you see. I know him, and boy...I don't know where to start sometimes. You don't know what you're missing troll. Just worshipping God is a priviledge that beats being isolated from him for all eternity.

Mr Troll: You really are hopeless when it comes to proper rational discourse. . .

And the answer to your question wey i use my last brain matter formulate nko?

Reyginus: Don't try to get yourself confused. The question is whether anything existing lies outside, not what its constituents.

Logicboy03:

Sharaap.

Go and fool your christian brothers. I am not a sheep

Chibuebem: hmmm...wetin you wan make tok
I wan tok say:"'your' science only speculates about the universe and origins, and you believe them. Yet you don't believe us who claim to have the real deal"
But I'm afraid you'll think you used up your last grey matter for nothing.

Mr Troll: See? Thats the beauty of science. It doesn't make bogus claims without evidence. If it doesn't know it says so, it can speculate, put its speculations to test. If it passes, further tests are carried and so on. It doesn't make outrageous claims and expect to be believed. If i may ask, what is the limit of the universe and its properties? Can you give a convincing answer?

Chibuebem: nope. I'd need to study a while before I gave you an answer. For pete's sake I asked the question to prove a point.

Chibuebem: no you're not. According to evolution, a chimps your cousin (this is expected to make you laugh troll, not fly off your handle)

Logicboy03:

Sharaap.

Go and fool your christian brothers. I am not a sheep

plaetton: Does god exist withing the universe that he created , or does he sit outside the universe?