Dp

plaetton: Also, Reyginus, if god exists outside the universe, then , in our universe, god does not exist. In our universe, god can only exist as an abstract idea or a set of ideals.
This is the position of all atheists which you somehow disagree with.
So, as u can see, by your own logic, atheists have got it right.

I wonder where my post was implying what you have up there. Bring the point home.

Reyginus: I wonder where my post was implying what you have up there. Bring the point home.

You rebuked the idea of god existing within the universe.
So that means that god, as far you are concerned, can only exist outside the universe.
No be so?

plaetton:

You rebuked the idea of god existing within the universe.
So that means that god, as far you are concerned, can only exist outside the universe.
No be so?

Yes. And that makes Him non-existent?

Reyginus: Yes. And that makes Him non-existent?

Yes na. Non-existent within universe.

aManFromMars:

Sorry, you're the one not making sense.. There's another word we use for 'everything' - it's called the universe.

If God is the universe, then God is nothing. I've never seen a tornado stop itself, or winds chasing course of their own volition. It's ambiguous to say God is everything. That means nothing.

onyin ara

Nothing ≠ everything. If A ≠ B, then (X = A) ≠ (X = B).
Also, atheism claims that no (real) thing is god, not that god and nothingness are the same thing. Atheism doesn't define god as nothing; it defines god as a thing that isn't real (or, at least, a thing that the atheist does not believe is real).

Quote from Carl Sagan:
"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Others — for example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein — considered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."
But Sagan continued elsewhere, "But if by 'God,' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity."

Do you believe God to be a conscious being separate from the universe?

No.... Do you see anything related to this in my post? (nairaland atheist are just throwing straw with purpose of winning argument, you lost on me).

I write my opinion doesn't matter you agree or belief it or not......go figure things out there

Reyginus: Frankly speaking, I consider Panentheism's explanation of God as the most illogical. Just my opinion.

I respect your opinion but can you explain why you said panentheism is illogical?

plaetton:

I understand where you're coming from ,and I agree with you 100%`
It is actually illogical to say that god is everything, and then say that god is something.
It is hard for many to grasp that if god is the total sum of all, then god, as a separate entity that many assume him to be, cannot exist.
This is why I am a pantheist atheist.

For the same reason, I laugh when people say that there is a one and only god, then also turn around to say " God is a mighty God", God is a loving God, etc.

Similarly, telling someone that god loves them is also silly, if we agree that god must, as a matter of law, either love all his creation or hate all his creations.

the red bold and the black seem like contradiction to me.

If a gas is filled in a cylinder and I use little bit of it......what do you call that little bit? Little gas?

aManFromMars:

If God is everything, he's also nothing..

Correct. But I also recall earlier stating this:

"There is no 'nothing' as such, for if there was truly 'nothing' it could not be thought of, if 'nothing' can be thought of it is something. Put simply, there was always something. It is from this something from which all things in the material world springs. This something is God. QED."

A contradiction in truth and of necessity.

I should treat your response in detail

Reyginus: I think this is wrong.

I don't.

Reyginus: The moment the location of God is assumed to be within our space,

God is the space. Location is an observed part of space an object exists in and as such location requires space not vice-versa.

Reyginus: we can then begin to question the uncaused entity we are describing.

Okay.

Reyginus: If you remember, God has always been.

Agreed.

Reyginus: Space is caused.

It isn't. Anything that exists requires space to exist in. As such I find talk of no space to be silly. Without space all you'll have is space since the space you assume will need space to exist in: I also think the idea of space expanding absurd for the simple reasin that it presumes space to be physical and space is required for expansion.

Reyginus: If God has always been and space is a latter creation,

Space is eternal and fundamental to existence. It is evident to anyone that absolutely all things occupy (or exist in) space.

Reyginus: then God cannot be in space except it has always existed

No, it is not IN space. It is space and I hold that space is eternal. You can't apply time to space for the simple reason that space is infinite. You can't say this is where space starts or ends. You start or end IN space.


Weird. I know but I suggest you muse over it a bit. And ask questions if any.

@Uyi,are you separating space from time?
Edit: @OP, I truly do not know. I hope this topic suggests that we have to assume he exists abi? If so, this question seems like a false dilenma to me. Why not say God IS? If i must assume he exists for the purpose of this discussion then i say God IS.

Mr Troll: @Uyi,are you separating space from time?
Edit: @OP, I truly do not know. I hope this topic suggests that we have to assume he exists abi? If so, this question seems like a false dilenma to me. Why not say God IS? If i must assume he exists for the purpose of this discussion then i say God IS.

First state your understanding of space-time.

Uyi Iredia: I should treat your response in detail



I don't.



God is the space. Location is an observed part of space an object exists in and as such location requires space not vice-versa.



Okay.



Agreed.



It isn't. Anything that exists requires space to exist in. As such I find talk of no space to be silly. Without space all you'll have is space since the space you assume will need space to exist in: I also think the idea of space expanding absurd for the simple reasin that it presumes space to be physical and space is required for expansion.



Space is eternal and fundamental to existence. It is evident to anyone that absolutely all things occupy (or exist in) space.



No, it is not IN space. It is space and I hold that space is eternal. You can't apply time to space for the simple reason that space is infinite. You can't say this is where space starts or ends. You start or end IN space.


Weird. I know but I suggest you muse over it a bit. And ask questions if any.

make I ask my own question abeg. I can remember someone asking you this question before, but I don't know how you answered. Is space conscious?

Mr Troll: @Uyi,are you separating space from time?
Edit: @OP, I truly do not know. I hope this topic suggests that we have to assume he exists abi? If so, this question seems like a false dilenma to me. Why not say God IS? If i must assume he exists for the purpose of this discussion then i say God IS.

Actually Troll,
The question is meant to highlight in our consciousness the contradictory ideas about the existence of god.

1st. If god exists within the universe, then he would be active agent within the universe. If so, as noted by Reyginus, he would constrained by the laws of the universe, and therefore lose his omni omniness.
It would mean that he did not create the universe .

2nd. If god exists outside the boundaries of the universe, then we can easily say that god does not exist in the universe, our universe.
In that case, god exists in our universe only as abstract idea or a set of abstract ideals.
This is the basic atheists position.

why is it so difficult for people to digest that gods of religions were aliens from outer space, who were here in the distance past?
the almighty god that organized religions talk about is imaginary. it doesnt exist.

Chibuebem: make I ask my own question abeg. I can remember someone asking you this question before, but I don't know how you answered. Is space conscious?

Yes. I assume space is conscious.

Mr Troll: @Uyi,are you separating space from time?
Edit: @OP, I truly do not know. I hope this topic suggests that we have to assume he exists abi? If so, this question seems like a false dilenma to me. Why not say God IS? If i must assume he exists for the purpose of this discussion then i say God IS.

cool. God described himself like that ya know? 'I AM THAT I AM. Hallelujah( now I'm really weird you see, the phrase 'hallelujah' always rises from inside me when I praise God. It isn't strange to me. I noticed it when I got filled)

plaetton:
Actually Troll,
The question is meant to highlight in our consciousness the contradictory ideas about the existence of god.

1st. If god exists within the universe, then he would be active agent within the universe. If so, as noted by Reyginus, he would constrained by the laws of the universe, and therefore lose his omni omniness.
It would mean that he did not create the universe .

2nd. If god exists outside the boundaries of the universe, then we can easily say that god does not exist in the universe, our universe.
In that case, god exists in our universe only as abstract idea or a set of abstract ideals.
This is the basic atheists position.

I AM THAT I AM GOD says(I believe it will take a very long time to digest that statement entirely). You cannot quantify God. The bible is the only book I've seen in which God calls himself, and man calls God, wonderful names.

Uyi Iredia:

Yes. I assume space is conscious.

okay. Cool.

991: why is it so difficult for people to digest that gods of religions were aliens from outer space, who were here in the distance past?
the almighty god that organized religions talk about is imaginary. it doesnt exist.

My friend, that is why religion is a mystery as far as how it affects thinking.
The bible says it in plain black and white English that the gods came from another world(heaven) with superior knowledge and weapons.
Yet no religious person will accept that even when ever page of the bible says or implies so.

plaetton:
My friend, that is why religion is a mystery as far as how it affects thinking.
The bible says it in plain black and white English that the gods came from another world(heaven) with superior knowledge and weapons.
Yet no religious person will accept that even when ever page of the bible says or implies so.

yep. When Jesus finally comes to enforce his rule and judge nations, I can bet they'll convince humans it's an extra_terrestrial attack. LoL some atheists already believe in extra terrestrials anyway. With no shred of evidence. Evolution too. Yet they find it hard to believe in God and intelligent design. Smh.

Chibuebem: I AM THAT I AM GOD says(I believe it will take a very long time to digest that statement entirely). You cannot quantify God. The bible is the only book I've seen in which God calls himself, and man calls God, wonderful names.

Actually, that I am that I am statement is often taken out of context and misinterpretated.

Moses, acknowledges the existence of other gods when he asked Yahweh for his name in order know yahweh's jurisdictional boundaries in Egypt and Canaan. Thawed, in turn responded by say I am who I am, in other words, mind your business, to Moses.
Mind you, Thawed also told Moses that he was known as El Shadai and other names in Mesopotamia.

Chibuebem: cool. God described himself like that ya know? 'I AM THAT I AM. Hallelujah( now I'm really weird you see, the phrase 'hallelujah' always rises from inside me when I praise God. It isn't strange to me. I noticed it when I got filled)

Apparently your mind does not reason outside of the christian bubble. No suprise that my meaning was lost on you. . .

Chibuebem: okay. Cool.

NOTED !

Chibuebem: yep. When Jesus finally comes to enforce his rule and judge nations, I can bet they'll convince humans it's an extra_terrestrial attack. LoL some atheists already believe in extra terrestrials anyway. With no shred of evidence. Evolution too. Yet they find it hard to believe in God and intelligent design. Smh.

Big laughter.
Do you actually know the meaning of extraterrestrial?
Obviously not.
If god and Jesus are not originally from Earth,
My friend, that makes them extraterrestrials.
Dohhhh!

Uyi Iredia:

God is the space. Location is an observed part of space an object exists in and as such location requires space not vice-versa.

It isn't. Anything that exists requires space to exist in. As such I find talk of no space to be silly. Without space all you'll have is space since the space you assume will need space to exist in: I also think the idea of space expanding absurd for the simple reasin that it presumes space to be physical and space is required for expansion.



Space is eternal and fundamental to existence. It is evident to anyone that absolutely all things occupy (or exist in) space.



No, it is not IN space. It is space and I hold that space is eternal. You can't apply time to space for the simple reason that space is infinite. You can't say this is where space starts or ends. You start or end IN space.


Weird. I know but I suggest you muse over it a bit. And ask questions if any.

@bold is why i asked you that question. I'm afraid it is you who has to state was you understand by spacetime.

Mr Troll: Apparently your mind does not reason outside of the christian bubble. No suprise that my meaning was lost on you. . .

I'm lol and smh at the same time. The gravity and meaning of your comment was lost on yourself.

I even opened a thread about it.

You're still right in a way my friend. I reason on the context of God's word, and I have success in life. Joshua 1:8

all over. if he created the earth commonsense would tell you he created the universe after all no universe = no earth.

no earth = no life.

plaetton:
1st. If god exists within the universe, then he would be active agent within the universe. If so, as noted by Reyginus, he would constrained by the laws of the universe, and therefore lose his omni omniness.
It would mean that he did not create the universe.

this is the dilenma of the abrahamic religions. Lol.

2nd. If god exists outside the boundaries of the universe, then we can easily say that god does not exist in the universe, our universe.
In that case, god exists in our universe only as abstract idea or a set of abstract ideals.
This is the basic atheists position.

No. This is a hasty conclusion. You could also say this is the classical deist position. He exists outside but does not interfere.
There is also the 3rd option, he is the totality of the universe. The Pantheist position. . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eIkF2I2qPI

^^talks about how space can be bent and how
they believe it was created possibly just to accommodate earth

lol i think thats the right video...if not oh well.

Chibuebem: I'm lol and smh at the same time. The gravity and meaning of your comment was lost on yourself.

I even opened a thread about it.

You're still right in a way my friend. I reason on the context of God's word, and I have success in life. Joshua 1:8

Sorry mate, people who matter actually understand what i was talking about. You're making yourself look silly.