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How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland

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How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by AlBaqir(m): 8:11pm On Oct 08, 2013
The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, delivered a sermon to mankond during the Farewell Hajj, and said: "O mankind! I have left behind over you that which if you hold fast to it, you will never go astray: the book of Allah and the sunnah of His prophet."
~'Ibn Musa al-Bayhaqi, 'Sunan al-Kubra, vol. 10, p. 114 hadith no. 20123

Submissions
1. This hadith with bolded part above was NEVER recorded in any of Sunni Six most trusted books of hadith (kutub sahih sittah) viz: Sahih Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, Tirmidhi, Nisai and Abu Dawud.

The first source of the hadith is "al-Muwatta" of Imam Malik.

2. Imam Bayhaqi (d. 458H) recorded following Isnad (chain of transmitters) for the hadith:
Abu 'Abd Allah al-Hafiz - Ismail ibn Muhammad b. Al-Fadl al-Sha'rani - my grandfather - Ibn Abi Uways - my father - Thawr b. Zayd al-Dayli - 'Ikrimah - Ibn Abbas

The Sanad of this hadith is Da'if (weak) due to Ibn Abi Uways who was accused of a poor memory. Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (d. 852H) states:

"Ismail b. 'Abd Allah b. 'Abd Allah b. Uways b. Malik b. Abi 'Amir al-Asbahi, Abu 'Abd Allah b. Abi Uways al-Madani: Saduq (very truthful), (but) he made mistakes in ahadith due to his memory"
~Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, 'Taqrib al-Tahdhib (2nd edition), vol. 1 p. 96 #461

Al-Asqalani stressed how serious Ibn Abi Uways mistake was:

"...I say: We recorded in Manaqib al-Bukhari (Merits of al-Bukhari) with a sahih chain that Ismail gave his manuscript to him (i.e al-Bukhari) and allowed him to select from it...Whatever al-Bukhari narrated from him was from the sahih among his ahadith, because he (al-Bukhari) wrote (them) from his (i.e Ibn Uways) manuscripts. As such, nothing from his ahadith is accepted as a hujjah except what is in the Sahih (of al-bukhari), due to the criticism of al-Nasai and others against him - unless he has been seconded in it, in which case he is accepted as a support in it."

~Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, 'Hadi al-sari Muqaddimah Fath al-Barr (Beirut: Dar Ihya al-Turath al-'Arabi; 1st edition, 1408H), p. 388

3. Shaykh Ibn Baz (d. 1420H) also copied the hadith: "I am leaving behind over you that which you will never go astray if you hold fast to it: the Book of God and my sunnah".

Ibn Baz claimed:
"Al-Hakim recorded it with a good (jayyid) chain" ~Majma 'Fatawa vol.24 p.182

Let us examine how Al-Hakim (d.403) recorded this hadith in another isnad:

"Abu Bakr Ahmad b. Ishaq al-Faqih - al-'Abbas b. al-Fadl al-Asfati - Isma'il - Abu Uways:

Thawr b. Zayd al-Dayli - Ikrimah - Ibn 'Abbas:
The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, delivered a sermon to mankind during the Farewell Hajj, and said: 'verily, shaytan has lost hope of being worshiped in your land...O mankind! Verily, I have left behind over you that which if you will never go astray if you hold fast to it: the Book of God and the sunnah of His prophet, peace be upon him."

Al-hakim however comment giving a misinformation about Ismail b. Abi Uways:

"Al-bukhari has relied upon ahadith of 'Ikrimah as hujjah (proof), while Muslim has relied upon Abu Uways as a hujjah. The rest of the narrators are agreed upon (as being reliable)."
~al-Mustadrak 'ala sahihayn, vol. 1 p.171

Imam al-Dhahabi (d. 748H) also agreed with al-Hakim.

The chain was through Ismail ibn Abi Uways and he is not seconded in reporting the hadith. Both Ibn Abi Uways and his father were never agreed upon as reliable narrators.

A salafi scholar, Shaykh Muqbil, writes by correcting both al-Hakim and Ibn Baz in his "Tahqiq of al-Mustadrak (of al-Hakim):

"It is a da'if hadith, because it is narrated through the route of Ismail ibn Abi Uways from his father, and there is criticism against both of them. Its shahid is narrated through the route of Salih ibn Musa al-Talihi, and he is matruk (rejected)."

A well known Sunni hadith scientist, Sayyid Hassan al-Saqqaf express his concern:
"As for the hadith {I have left over you ...the Book of God and my Sunnah} which people repeat among themselves, and which the lecturers quote on the pulpits, IT IS A FABRICATED, FALSE HADITH. It was fabricated by the Umayyads and their followers to turn people away from this sahih hadith about the offspring of the prophet. So be very careful due to that! I have mentioned all its chains and exposed the liars and fabricators in its chains at the end of my book Sahih Sifat Salat al-Nabi, p.289."

Another Point To Ponder On
1. Assuming the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family) said he left "Book of God and his Sunnah" at Arafat infront of large gathering in his farewell hajj, as claimed, why was Umar ibn Khattab and many other sahaba NEVER made mentioned of it (i.e "...and[b]Sunnah[/b]) at the death-bed of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family)?

Ibn Abbas reports:
"When the time of the death of Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was Umar Ibn al-Khattab, prophet said: "Come near LET ME WRITE FOR YOU a writing after which you will never go astray." Umar said: 'Verily, the illness has now fully possessed the prophet, and you have the Qur'an, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us.' The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near SO THAT PROPHET MAY WRITE FOR YOU a writing after which you will not go astray," while the others keep on repeating what Umar said. When their noise and dispute became very rowdy in the presence of the prophet, peace be upon him, he said, "Stand up and leave me". Narrated 'Ubayd 'Allah: Ibn Abbas used to say: "It was a great disaster that their dispute and noise prevented the Messenger of Allah from writing that document for them."

Ref: Sahih al Bukhari Arabic-English Volume 9 hadith no. 468 and Volume 7 hadith 573
; Sahih Bukhari vol.6 p.2680, no.6982; Sahih Muslim Book 013, Number 4014 etc

NB: Both Bukhari and Muslim alone recorded more than 10 different versions of this hadith with Sahih chain not to mention other classical books and hadith collections.

Bottomline, the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family) never mentioned either at Arafat or any other places whatsoever that he has left the "Book of God and my sunnah" rather the real instruction was:

"O mankind! I have left behind over you that which if you hold fast to it you will never go astray:the Book of Allah and MY OFFSPRING, MY AHL al-BAYT."

This hadith with slight variations (and all pointing to Book of Allah and the ahl al-bayt) is recorded in almost ALL the 'six most authentic Sunni collection of hadith viz: Sahih Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, Nisai not to mention other classical books of collections of hadith with more than 30 different chain of transmitters.

2. Can The Prophet contradict Himself?
Those who recorded the hadith of "Book of God and my sunnah (or His prophet's sunnah)" claimed it to be reported at Arafat in the Farewell Hajj of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family). Why were the same authors (Bayhaqi, d.458H; al-Hakim, d.403 et al) and others like Imam Muslim, Nisai, Ibn Majah, Abu Dawud, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani et al equally mentioned that the hadith "Book of God and my offspring, my ahl al-Bayt was reported at the Farewell Hajj in Arafat, Ghadir Khum and death-bed of the prophet?
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by usermane(m): 9:44pm On Oct 08, 2013
PEACE.
What about the hadith that goes thus "I have left for you the book of God, follow it and you shall be guided" Sahih Muslim Book of Hajj, i presume. We do remember that, don't we?. 'Sunnah,ahlul bayt,or hadith' was not mentioned here. This is something to ponder on. The prophet 's last sermon was witnessed by thousands of people as claimed, why then did it come in 3 versions according to hadith?
The Qur'an was recorded before the Prophet 's death, why was hadith left out? The first four caliphs, also did not record any hadith, infact they prohibited it writting or spreading and even burnt copies. So here we are digging at history again.

1 Like

Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by AlBaqir(m): 7:01pm On Oct 09, 2013
@Username,
Get the full hadith pls. As far as I know, what you quoted is a part of a full hadith. Where's the other part. Besides the fact that you made claim that its sermon of the prophet's last hajj, that makes your claim a part. You need to quote and read the full sermon.

Besides, one of the reason why hadith of the prophet (saws) were not written down in his lifetime is the fact that Qur'an revelation lasted throughout his last 23years. The need to teach Qur'an, the need to dictate and memorize, the need to do the tafsir among other things pertaining to it. How many scholars were there among the companions? Majority will definitely find it difficult to write and learn hadith of the prophet with Qur'an at the same time for 23years without mixing the two. What about hadith Qudsi ( in which it is also a direct revelation from God but its not part of Qur'an). Remember Qur'an was revealed in stages or gradual. It is therefore easier for companions to follow Rasul step by step since he's very much among them without subject themselves to written his saying parallel with Qur'an at the same time. A very good reason he (saws) however needed to designate somebody he had trained (Ali ibn Abi talib) to teach his sayings and practice; hence, "I leave with you two weighty things...Qur'an and my ahl al-bayt". Or the saying: "I am the city of knowledge, Ali is the gate to it. Nobody comes through the city except through the gate"

Abu Bakar, Umar and Uthman were the caliphas that prevented the writing of hadith. Never Ali (a.s)! In fact Ali found so important that immediately after the demise of the prophet (saws), he did not come out until he has written the tafsir and ta'wil of each verse of every surah of the Qur'an in line with prophet's dictation and teachings to him. He presented the 'compiled Qur'an to the 1st caliph, Abu bakar, but he turned it down saying they too can do the same. In short, Ali was never included.
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by usermane(m): 5:30pm On Oct 10, 2013
PEACE TO YOU.
Maybe you haven't stumbled upon that narration or hadith Al-Baqir. But wait, guys, do any of you read Sahih Muslim. Am talking of that book compiled by Imam Muslim, the persian who lived btw 204 AH and 261 AH.
Pls do get a copy and check:
Sahih Muslim;
Book/Kitab of Hajj/Pilgrimage;
Book 7;
Number 2803.

..... I have left among you the Book of Allah, and if you hold fast to it, you would never go astray....

Just the Book Of GOD, no sunnah, no ahlul bayt and no hadith. U r welcome.
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by AlBaqir(m): 7:36pm On Oct 10, 2013
@Username,
Thank you brother for that exposition. Let us try to view it this way:
1. The hadith on "kitabullah wa itrat ahl al-bayt (book of God and my ahl al-bayt) has more than 30 chains of transmitter; and all of them were authenticated by scholars of science of hadith to be Sahih.
2. The hadith of "kitabullahi wa sunnati"; No chain of transmitter in many early books of hadith (e.g al-Muwatta and Sirat Rasul by Imam malik and Ibn Hisham respectively).
3. That left us with "kitabullahi version (book of God ONLY)".

I strongly believe the hadith is incomplete from the reporter or the recorder who might be an adversary of ahl al-bayt (a.s). Because generally (sahih or daeef) the holy prophet (saws) repeated severally "thaqalayn or amrayn -TWO weighty things or TWO things"; so the issue of ONE is suspected to be a foul play.

Two, consider another fact. Umar was the first that preached the idea of Qur'an ONLY.
At the death-bed of Rasulullah (saws), he (saws) ordered for pen and paper to write what if muslim should follow will never go astray. Alas! Umar accused the prophet of "Yahjur" - delirious; and said: "Hasbu Kitabullah" -Book of God is enough".
(Bukhari, muslim etc. You can equally search with "calamity of thursday"wink
Does the holy prophet not knew there's book of God before he utered that statement?

So I am of the opinion that "that very hadith of book of God ONLY" has been edited or fabricated to support Umar thereby, free him from criticism.

Lastly, shine your face well well my brother. The way Saudi salafi/Wahabi authority is editing books of hadith is alarming. You can notice if you already have the old edition or arabic version and compare with the new.
A very good example is the popular Abdullah Yusuf Ali english translation and commentary. Many things have been expunged from the so-called new edition. All the places the scholar made mention of Ali, Fatima, hassan and hussain or ahl al-bayt have been REMOVED.
I can cite many example if you can lay your hands on Old and new versions.

Another example of such is Tafsir Ibn kathir. They have deliberately removed many hadiths from the Tafsir just because it does not serve their course or interest.

Salam.
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by AlBaqir(m): 11:44pm On Aug 05, 2014
Importance Of Hadith al-Thaqalain
The holy prophet (peace be on him and his family) said:
"I have left behind over you TWO WEIGHTY THINGS (al-Thaqalain)which if you hold fast to it you will never go astray:the Book of Allah and MY OFFSPRING, MY AHL al-BAYT..."

1. Ibn Manzur (d. 711H), a Sunni linguist explains the hadith al-Thaqalain":
"He (the prophet) named them thaqalayn (two weighty things) because holding fast to them both and following them both are weighty (responsibilities)."
~Lisan al-Arab vol. 11 p. 85

2. Ibn Athir (d. 606H) another Sunni linguist:

"{I am leaving among you the Two weighty Things: the Book of Allah and my offspring}, he named them both thaqalayn because holding fast to them both and following them are weighty (responsibilities). And every priceless weighty thing is called thaqal. Therefore, he named them thaqalain to highlight their significance and to extol their importance."
~ al-Nihayah fi Gharib al-Hadith wa al-Athar, vol. 1 p. 216

3. Sheik al-Arnaut commenting to a version of the hadith al-Thaqalain in 'Musnad Ahmad b. Hanbali, has something slight different to say quoting al-Sindi:

Al-Sindi said: "His statement {I am leaving behind over you}: that is after my death.

{The Two Weighty Things}: every priceless treasure is called a 'Weighty things,' and this hadith is from it, as stated in al-Qamus.

{One of them is greater}: that is the Book, because it is the Imam for everyone - whether the offspring (of the prophet) or others...

{And my offspring}: it is like he, peace be upon him, appointed them TO STAND IN HIS PLACE, such that as it was the Quran and the Prophet during his lifetime, it was the Quran and his Ahl al-Bayt after him. However, their standing in his place is (only) with regards to the (Ummah's) obligation of love, kindness and care (to them), not in adherence to their words and opinions. Rather, the reference for actions are the Book and the Sunnah, and Allah the most High knows best."
~Musnad Ahmad b. Hanbali vol. 17 p. 174-175, #11104 [annotators: Shu'ayb al-Arnaut, 'Adil Murshid and others].

I say the last statement (underlined) of al-Sindi is WEIRD. In his (peace be on him and his family) words, the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family) stressed the importance of the two weighty things by saying "if you ADHERE TO THEM, you will NEVER go astray". He did not say "if you adhere to Quran and love, respect or care for the ahl al-bayt..."

What is meant by adherent to the Quran? Definitely to FOLLOW while others like love, respect and care can follow suit. The holy prophet (peace be on him and his family) unite them together calling them Thaqalayn (two weighty things) and said "if you ADHERE TO THEM, you will NEVER go astray". They were two inseparable entity.

In fact he (peace be on him and his family) concluded saying "the two will never separate until they meet me at the pool". Meaning the two will never contradict each other.

So I wonder why anybody will think he was only saying we should love the ahl al-bayt but not follow them as we follow the Quran!

To clarify this doubt, Allamah Nasir Deen al-Albani in his "Sahih al-Jami' al-Saghir wa Ziyadatuhu (Al-Maktab al-Islami), vol. 1 p. 482, hadith no. 2457 records the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family) to have said yet in another version of hadith thaqalain called 'hadith Khalifatain':

"I am leaving behind over you TWO KHALIFAHS; the Book of Allah - a rope stretching between the heaven and the earth - and my offspring, my Ahl al-Bayt. Verily, both shall never separate from each other until they meet me at the Lake-Fount"

Then, Sheik (al-Albani) comments: *Sahih.

SECONDLY, a Sheik also quoted the other versions of "Hadith alThaqalayn"which ended with: "I remind you about my ahl al-bayt (3 times)" or "Fear Allah how you treat them (ahl al-bayt) after me"! And then argued that those concluding statement simply urge the Ummah to love and respect them ONLY.

I say what about the constant phrase that appear in ALL the versions of the hadith: if you ADHERE TO THEM, you will NEVER go astray"?

The phrase: "I remind you about my ahl al-bayt (3 times)" or "Fear Allah how you treat them (ahl al-bayt) after me"! can be well understood in the saying of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family) to 'Ali (as) the first of the Ahl al-Bayt. 'Ali (as) said:
'I swear by Allah, verily, the Ummi Prophet (peace be on him and his family) told me: "They will soon betray you after me"

~Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani, al-Matalib al-'Aliyah bi Zawaid al-Masanid al-Thamaniyyah, vol. 16 p. 64, #3919

Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani through another different chain quoted the second hadith:
The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said: "Verily, this Ummah will soon betray you after me."
~vol.16, p. 65, #3920

Al-Hakim also included the report in his 'al-Mustadrak ala sahihayn, vol. 3 p.150, #4676
'Ali said:
"Verily, part of what the prophet, peace be upon him, told me is that the ummah would soon betray me after him

Every transmitter in the chain of these three report is Thiqa (trustworthy), accurate.
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by AlBaqir(m): 6:35am On Aug 08, 2014
Al-Nasa'i narrates from Muhammad ibn al-Muthanna, he from Yahya ibn Hammad, from Abu 'Uwwanah, from Sulayman, from Habib ibn Abi Thabit, from Abu al-Tufayl, from Zayd ibn Arqam, who said,"When the Messenger of Allah (S) returned from the last hajj and came down at Ghadir Khumm...

"Then he declared: 'I am about to answer the call (of death). Verily, I have left two precious things (thaqalayn) among you, one of which is greater than the other: the Book of God and my ‘Itrah, my Ahlul Bayt. So watch out how you treat them after me. For, indeed, they will never separate until they return to me by the side of the Pond.'

Then he said, 'Verily, God is my master (mawlaya) and I am the wali of every believer.' Then he took ‘Ali's hand and declared, 'To whomever I am his wali, this one is also his wali. My God, befriend whoever befriends him and be hostile to whoever is hostile to him.'" Abu al-­Tufayl says: "I said to Zayd, 'Did you hear it from the Prophet(S)?' He replied, 'There was no one in the caravan who did not see it with his eyes and hear it with his ears,'"

Khasa'is ‘Ali is part of al-Nasa'i's al-Sunan al-kubra as shown by the 3rd volume of the MS in the king's collection in Morocco, written in 759/1358 folios 81-117. See also in this regard the introduction of al-­Khasa'is (Kuwait: Maktabat al-Mu’alla, 1406), ed. by
Ahmad Mirayn Balushi. The editor states that this tradition is sahih and its transmitters are thiqah.

Among others who have recorded it in their books are:
1. Al-Bukhari, al-Ta'rikh al-kabir, iii, 96;
2. Muslim, Sahih, bab fada'il ‘Ali, no. 2408;
3. Ahmad, Musnad, iii, 17, iv, 366;
4. ‘Abd ibn Humayd, Musnad, no. 265;
5. Ibn Sa’d, and
6. Abu Ya’la from Abu Sa’id, as mentioned in Jam’ al-­jawami’ and Kanz al-‘ummal;
7. Ishaq ibn Rahwayh, in his Sahih., as mentioned by Ibn Hajar in al-Matalib al-Aliyah, iv, 65, no. 1873, where he states that its isnad is sahih, and also by al-Busayri in Ithaf al-sadah (MS in Topcopi Library, vol. 3, F.55b) who, too, considers the isnad as sahih;
8. Ibn Khuzaymah, Sahih, MS in Topcopi Library, F.240;
9. al-Darimi, Sunan, ii, 310, no. 2319;
10. Abu Dawud, Sunan, as mentioned in Sibt ibn al-­Jawzi, Tadhkirat khawass al-ummah, 322;
11. Abu 'Uwwanah, Musnad, as mentioned in al-­Shaykhani, al-Sirat al-sawi;
12. al-Bazzaz, from Umm Hani, as mentioned in Wasilat al-ma'al;
13. Ibn Abi 'Asim, Kitab al-Sunnah, 629, no. 1551, 630, no. 1555, 629, no. 1551;
14. al-Ya’qubi, Ta'rikh, ii, 112;
15. al-Baladhuri, Ansab al-ashraf, 110, no. 48, the biographical account of ‘Ali (A);
Etc etc
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by AlBaqir(m): 12:43pm On Sep 03, 2015
@Empiree, seems our little discussion on your thread has given me series of antispam bot ban some days now while my comments repeatedly deleted. Anyway, the popular, the most publicized hadith of "I have left for you the book of Allah and my sunnah" is not only a single reported hadith but a fabrication per excellence. The analysis and confession is exposed on this thread. Unfortunately the one that is Mutawattir (reported through several Sahih chain) is being boycotted.

While it is obligatory for all muslim to follow and adhere to the Sunnah of the prophet, where we derive the Sunnah in order not to be led astray is the most important. While Sunni follow the Sunnah through the report of every tom, dick and harry companions be it a mu'min or munafiq or apostate, the Shia follow the Sunnah through the prophet appointed Ahl al-bayt; hence, the hadith thaqalain: "I have left over you two weighty things, so long you adhere to it, you will never go astray: The book of God and my offspring, my Ahl al-bayt..."

Lastly on wudhu, Imagine that brother! I haven't even explore the Quran verses on wudhu, now we don't even seem to agree on the definition of "wipe (المسحة) and wash (الغسل)"!
If you submit that "wash = wipe", then can you wipe your face and hands in wudhu as Quran command "wash your faces and your hands"?
Wash involves " to move by the force of water in motion" while wipe simply involve passing or robbing wet hands over.
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by Empiree: 5:21pm On Sep 03, 2015
AlBaqir:
@Empir.ee, seems our little discussion on your thread has given me series of antispam bot ban some days now while my comments repeatedly deleted.
I sensed that. I was like what the heck you did to sissie's robot.

Anyway, the popular, the most publicized hadith of "I have left for you the book of Allah and my sunnah" is not only a single reported hadith but a fabrication per excellence.
@underlined, I guess sunni played games with that because anytime hadith is singly reported, possibility of being categorized weak or fabricated exist. But "sunnah" in itself is not far fetch from what is being practiced today

While it is obligatory for all muslim to follow and adhere to the Sunnah of the prophet, where we derive the Sunnah in order not to be led astray is the most important. While Sunni follow the Sunnah through the report of every tom, dick and harry companions be it a mu'min or munafiq or apostate, the Shia follow the Sunnah through the prophet appointed Ahl al-bayt;
That's it. That's fundamental difference. However, i insist that this difference arent far fetch from each other. No doubt every tom dick and harry wrote and reported bunch of nonsense as pointed out by sheik imran hussein and sheik hamza yusuf.

Lastly on wudhu, Imagine that brother! I haven't even explore the Quran verses on wudhu, now we don't even seem to agree on the definition of "wipe (المسحة) and wash (الغسل)"!
If you submit that "wash = wipe", then can you wipe your face and hands in wudhu as Quran command "wash your faces and your hands"?
Wash involves " to move by the force of water in motion" while wipe simply involve passing or robbing wet hands over.
Again, the difference is not big deal at all even in practical sense. The real difference is in definition of the words. That's why i said earlier that sunni and shia are playing dump with religion. It's hatred that made them go against one another. Differences occur because of "interest". Interest that is not fisabilillah. That's what it is. Why would "wash and wipe" cause major hullabaloo among Muslims is beyond me.
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by Empiree: 8:31pm On Sep 04, 2015
Sheik Adam(RA) discussed some issues of succession after the prophet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEElZmSfY7Q
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by Empiree: 4:58pm On Sep 18, 2015
Albaqir has yet to respond to succession issue raised by Sheik Adam in the video posted above. Still waiting. I got another details from this Sheik in the video below. Kindly take your time and watch. Let me know if you have objection.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0cNTVtjMJ0
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by AlBaqir(m): 12:51pm On Sep 19, 2015
Empiree:
Albaqir has yet to respond to succession issue raised by Sheik Adam in the video posted above. Still waiting. I got another details from this Sheik in the video below. Kindly take your time and watch. Let me know if you have objection.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0cNTVtjMJ0

Sincerely I haven't seen the video. In sha Allah soonest I will watch it and respond appropriately.

1 Like

Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by AlBaqir(m): 11:19am On Sep 25, 2015
Empiree:
Sheik Adam(RA) discussed some issues of succession after the prophet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEElZmSfY7Q

I downloaded and watched the video. I appreciated some of his presentation but totally disagree with others.

First we need to understand the context in which this issue was raised. Sheik Adam was discussing a bad legacy where a leader will impose his son to be his successor. While trying to condemn the act, he claimed even the best of mankind, Muhammad (peace be upon him and his household) did not appoint over the ummah his "son" (Ali ibn Abi Talib). This is where the Sheikh challenges that if the prophet appoint Ali before he died, where is the evidence? And he further argued that since the 1st three Khalifah (Abu Bakar, Umar and Uthman) were in office before Ali, that means prophet never appointed Ali as his immediate successor.

While Sheik Adam's argument is valid in its intention, the fact that he cited Muawiyah's imposition of his accursed son (Yazid) to the Khilafah while afterward the trend continued which lead to the bloody history of the Caliphacy of Abbasid and Ummayyad; Sheik's side-way argument is flawed and exposed his limited research.

The following ahadith are obvious our Sheik never researched on before he passed away:

1. Imam Ibn Abi 'Asim (d. 287H) records:
Muhammad b. al-Muthanna - Yahya b. Hammad - Abu 'Awanah - Yahya b. Sulaym Abu Balj - 'Amr b. Maymun - Ibn Abbas:

The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said to 'Ali: "You are to me of the status of Harun to Musa, with the exception that you are not a prophet. And you are my Khalifah over every believer after me"

{Kitab al-Sunnah (Dar al-sami'ili al-Nashr wa al-Tawzi) [annotator: Dr. Basim b. Faysal al-Jawabirah], vol. 1, p. 799-800, #1222}

'Allamah al-Albani (d. 1420H) in his annotated version of Ibn Asim's kitab al-Sunnah added some daunting wording in bracket:
Muhammad b. al-Muthanna - Yahya b. Hammad - Abu 'Awanah - Yahya b. Sulaym Abu Balj - 'Amr b. Maymun - Ibn Abbas:

The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said to 'Ali: "You are to me of the status of Harun to Musa, with the exception that you are not a prophet. [Verily, it is not right that I depart except] with you as my Khalifah over every believer after me."

{Kitab al-Sunnah (al-Maktab al-Islami; 1st edition, 1400H) [annotator: Muhammad Nasir al-Din al-Albani], vol. 2, p. 565, #1188}

This hadith alone comes in three sigha (versions) and all are authenticated. Imam Ahmad in his Musnad, and Imam Nasai in his Sunan recorded it.

* It is obvious the Harun was the best in Musa's Ummah; hence, his appointment as prophet and Musa khalifa. In retrospect, Ali is liken to Harun in all ramification of MANZILA (that's why the hadith is called hadith manzila) except Nubuwah which ended with Muhammad. This hadith further kill Sheik Adam's argument that since the first 3 Khulafah preceded Ali, it means prophet never appointed Ali. This flawed argument is the same with Allamah Albani:

* According to Quran, Harun was betrayed and nearly killed when Musa went away [after the former was appointed as Khalifah]. The same happened to Ali. In fact, prophet himself had foretold in an authentic narrations that the Ummah will betray Ali after his demise. And there were sahih evidence they did which even lead to Ali and his loyalist opposing the Khilafah of Abu Bakar. Imam Bukhari recorded this in his Sahih.

2. HADITH KHALIFATAYN (TWO CALIPHS)

Allamah Nasir Deen al-Albani in his "Sahih al-Jami' al-Saghir wa Ziyadatuhu (Al-Maktab al-Islami), vol. 1 p. 482, hadith no. 2457 records the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family) to have said:

"I am leaving behind over you TWO KHALIFAHS; the Book of Allah - a rope stretching between the heaven and the earth - and my offspring, my Ahl al-Bayt. Verily, both shall never separate from each
other until they meet me at the Lake-Fount

Then, Sheik (al-Albani) comments: * Sahih.

What does this hadith meant to our Sheik and all others who subscribe to Sheik Adam's claim that prophet never appointed any Successor let alone from among his family? Was the first three Caliphs part of the prophet's appointed Ahl al-Bayt?

3. HADITH THAQALAIN (two weighty things) and HADITH GHADIR
In the first Hadith, prophet was reported in several Sahih chains that he has left Quran and his Ahl al-Bayt over the Ummah for guidance. The second Hadith was where Ali's hand was held up for the Ummah to see in the last Hajj, at a place called Ghadir Khum where the Prophet declared him as the MAWLA of every believer. Interestingly prophet initially asked his Ummah Do you accept Allah and His prophet as your MAWLA?. And all of them said YES. Then he held Ali's hand and declared him the MAWLA of all believers.

All these three points were elaborated with precise evidence in this link below:
https://www.nairaland.com/2195624/deen-show-whats-difference-between

So obviously the respected Sheik Adam missed all these daunting ahadith. May Allah forgive him and us for our negligence. Sheik also missed the point in the fact that Allah and His prophet's appointment is purely through merit not bloodline. Incidentally, the progeny of the prophet excel all in every merits. If the son, and wives of Nabi Nuh, Lut and Yaqub were removed from their Ahlulbayt because of their deeds, how can anyone argue Allah's selection is not based on merit?

So my brother Empiree, where do you stand?
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by Empiree: 11:59am On Sep 25, 2015
^ Okay....move to next video.
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by AlBaqir(m): 5:35am On Sep 26, 2015
Empiree:
^ Okay....move to next video.

Seem the video is no longer available bro.
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by Empiree: 11:28am On Sep 26, 2015
AlBaqir:


Seem the video is no longer available bro.
Looks like the previous one associated with different up-loader was taken off YouTube. This is same video by another user.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWFxEUBwEgo
As for Sheikh Adam(RA), notice that his bone of contention was not about Sunni/Shia. He only touched it briefly. Second video detail a lot more.
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by AlBaqir(m): 12:34pm On Sep 26, 2015
^poor me, I can only see less than 2mins of the video. I will appreciate if you can link me with the full video clip. Thanks.
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by Empiree: 12:55pm On Sep 26, 2015
^ I just listened again in full few mins ago. I suspect network problem in your area. Try refreshing see if that works.
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by AlBaqir(m): 11:32am On Sep 27, 2015
Empiree:
^ I just listened again in full few mins ago. I suspect network problem in your area. Try refreshing see if that works.

I've watched the full clip.

There are two statements I appreciated in this whole lecture of Sheik Imran Hussein.
First: Never accept my opinion except you are convinced it is correct.

Second: Imam Hussein Ibn Ali rose up against tyranny and oppression in Karbala....and Imam al-Mahdi will continue what Hussein started when he arrived.

Astaghfurllah...the rest of his lecture is baseless largely supported by self-invented theories and Sunni-influenced emotions. Then he did a gross injustice to Shia submissions on the issue. Funny enough he denied being Sunni or Shia.That's not scholastic. {I never meant to be rude}

While I wouldn't trouble myself going into his political analysis of the Sunni-Shia hiccups and his Dajjal card theory which he claimed is the main cause of Sunni-Shia split, following are the highlights of his main vital points:

Sheik Imran Hussein: # That the whole Ummah unanimously accepted the Khilafah of Abu Bakar.

# Universal acceptance of the Khilafah of Umar, Uthman.


My Response: The fact that Sheik Imran refused to be "Sunni" thereby refusing to adhere to the Sunni science of hadith, his self-created standards of authenticating or falsifying hadith make it difficult to argued against some of his theories based on hadith.

There were fierce oppositions to the Khilafah of Abu Bakar, especially from Ali and his loyalist. Ali refused to recognize Abu Bakar for 6months and he only did when people begin to show animosity towards him. Imam Bukhari recorded this as detailed in this link:
https://www.nairaland.com/2195624/deen-show-whats-difference-between

Imam Muslim also documented from the second Caliph, Umar that Ali and Abas ibn Abdul muttalib labeled Abu Bakar and him as "Liar, TRAITOR, sinful..." individuals.

So where does our Sheik invented his own theory of unanimous acceptance of Abu Bakar Khilafah?!

Sheik Imran:
# ALLEGED AHADITH of the appointment of Ali as Khalifah by the prophet.


My responds: It is obvious Sheik Imran either denied the authenticity or downplayed the hadith mutawattir of Ali's appointment by the prophet:

* Hadith Manzila
* Hadith Khalifatain
* Hadith Thaqalain
* Hadith Ghadir etc etc.

Again that is not Scholastic but self adamant standards. All these ahadith have been explore in the above link.

FAMILY RULE?!
Shia opinion according to Sheik Imran:
# An opinion that the whole Ummah went astray for choosing Abu Bakar. How can the WHOLE Ummah went astray? That's strange, says Sheik Imran.

My Respond: A sheik that never believed in the ahadith confirming the appointment of Ali will find it difficult to believe the bulk of the Sahaba "apostatized" in choosing another leader over Ali.

There are explicit ahadith in Sahih Muslim and Bukhari that testified to the apostasy of the Sahaba after the demise of the prophet. This, coupled with other sound hadith from Ali documented and authenticated by prominent Sunni scholars which reads from Ali: Part of what the Prophet told me is that the Ummah will betray me after his demise.

All these have been presented in details in the link above.

Sheik Imran: # That the Shia claim the Khilafah is restricted to the family of the prophet.*

My response: This was the dilemma of Sheik Adam (ra) too. My question: Is there anything wrong in that provided the family is the best in all ramifications?

Has Allah not restricted Nubuwwah (prophethood), Imamah (divine leadership), Istafa (preference over mankind), Hikmah (wisdom), ilm al-kitab (knowledge of the divine book) etc to the family of Ibrahim (alaih Salam) as highlighted in several places in the Quran? Has Allah established monarchism?

Does Sheik Imran not understood the content of Salat Ibrahimiyyah which states: O Allah! Bless Muhammad and the family of Muhammad in exactly the same manner you have blessed Ibrahim and the family of Ibrahim

The concept of Imamah:
https://www.nairaland.com/1902463/concept-imamah-infallible-quran
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by Empiree: 12:19pm On Sep 27, 2015
AlBaqir:


I've watched the full clip.
Alhamdulilah

There are two statements I appreciated in this whole lecture of Sheik Imran Hussein.
First: Never accept my opinion except you are convinced it is correct.
Yes, he never shied from saying that.


Funny enough he denied being Sunni or Shia.That's not scholastic. {I never meant to be rude}
Hunm, again, you misunderstood this. The ONLY reason behind saying he's not Sunni or Shia is basically to get out of sectarianism. In one his videos during Q & A session, he said 'I'm Sunni. It depends on the subject matter. He can be Sunni but reject some of their theories. What's up with that?.


Sheik Imran Hussein: # That the whole Ummah unanimously accepted the Khilafah of Abu Bakar.

# Universal acceptance of the Khilafah of Umar, Uthman.



Sheik Imran:
# ALLEGED AHADITH of the appointment of Ali as Khalifah by the prophet.


My responds: It is obvious Sheik Imran either denied the authenticity or downplayed the hadith mutawattir of Ali's appointment by the prophet:

* Hadith Manzila
* Hadith Khalifatain
* Hadith Thaqalain
* Hadith Ghadir etc etc.
Again, does it make any difference whether Imam Ali(RTA) became first or last caliph?. If he did not become leader at all would have been different. I said this before but I didnt get your opinion on it.


FAMILY RULE?!
Shia opinion according to Sheik Imran:
# An opinion that the whole Ummah went astray for choosing Abu Bakar. How can the WHOLE Ummah went astray? That's strange, says Sheik Imran.

My Respond: A sheik that never believed in the ahadith confirming the appointment of Ali will find it difficult to believe the bulk of the Sahaba "apostatized" in choosing another leader over Ali.
Muslims during the regimes of Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, were they misguided?.


There are explicit ahadith in Sahih Muslim and Bukhari that testified to the apostasy of the Sahaba after the demise of the prophet. This, coupled with other sound hadith from Ali documented and authenticated by prominent Sunni scholars which reads from Ali: Part of what the Prophet told me is that the Ummah will betray me after his demise.
In one of his lectures at some point, he acknowledged strange event that happened after the demise of the prophet(SAW). He said some people from Quraish reverted to kufr. Were those people any of the four "rightly guided caliph"?. Allah praises these early Muslims including the first four Muslim leaders.

"And the first forerunners [in the faith] among the Muhajireen and the Ansar and those who followed them with good conduct - Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him, and He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. That is the great attainment." 9:100
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by AlBaqir(m): 2:34pm On Sep 27, 2015
Empiree:



Hunm, again, you misunderstood this. The ONLY reason behind saying he's not Sunni or Shia is basically to get out of sectarianism. In one his videos during Q & A session, he said 'I'm Sunni. It depends on the subject matter. He can be Sunni but reject some of their theories. What's up with that?.

No I did not misunderstood him. I knew quite well he's a Sunni. He only used to distance himself from Sunni when it comes to "Sunni ilm hadith". That's my point.

Empiree:


Again, does it make any difference whether Imam Ali(RTA) became first or last caliph?. If he did not become leader at all would have been different. I said this before but I didnt get your opinion on it.

Between the Khilafah of the 1st three Khalifah, there existed almost 3 decades. Under their leadership, prophetic Sunnah were rewritten and dampened; and we have their personalized Sunnah being established. Sheik Imran dodged the fact that Ali refused to become the Khalifah after Umar based on the condition the six committee set by Umar gave him. That is, to follow the Quran, the Sunnah of the Prophet and the Sunnah of the Sheikhain (Abu Bakar and Umar). Rather Allah said should he find no answer in the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of his prophet, he would rather base his decisions on his understanding. This is what is recorded in Sunni authentic books.

Ali's Khilafah barely lasted 4years while he was trying to set the damage of 3 decades right. The Ummah plagued his Khilafah with civil wars led by prominent companions. He was killed in the furore. So him being the first Khalifah would have maintain the message of Islam on the right track. Ali is a test for this Ummah: You can either pass or fail the test. There is no third choice.

Empiree:


Muslims during the regimes of Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, were they misguided?.

Those explicit ahadith says it all. Allah and His prophet does not scare of saying the truth.

Empiree:


In one of his lectures at some point, he acknowledged strange event that happened after the demise of the prophet(SAW). He said some people from Quraish reverted to kufr. Were those people any of the four "rightly guided caliph"?. Allah praises these early Muslims including the first four Muslim leaders.

"And the first forerunners [in the faith] among the Muhajireen and the Ansar and those who followed them with good conduct - Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him, and He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. That is the great attainment." 9:100

So the sheik too believed some of them went astray. All of the Sahaba except few apostatize. The apostasy here is of different categories: Some went out of Islam completely, reverting to Christianity. Some became Khawarij. Majority's apostasy is in the betrayal of Ali's leadership. Many were compelled by the situations of the time. Many returned back to Ali during his Khilafah and fought alongside him in all the civil wars.

As per the Quran verse above, no name is mentioned. So I wonder how you concluded all the four were automatically part of the "foremost". If I may ask, "foremost" in what? In convert to Islam, service to Islam or good deeds? The ayah highlighted it to be "faith and good deeds". And of course, you need to maintain the two till death.

Surah tawbah verse 40 says it all, for example, about Abu Bakar.

WA Salam alaykum.
Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by imi123: 9:03pm On Feb 19, 2017
Please don't forget to say durood e paak on Prophet Muhammad salallahu alaihi wa aalehi wa salam whenever you mention his salallahu alaihi wa aalehi wa salam name.

1 Like

Re: How Authentic Is Hadith "I leave amongst you...The Book of God and my sunnah"? by imi123: 9:07pm On Feb 19, 2017

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