Since we all know that salvation is "FREE" and non of our works determines that. What does Paul mean when he told the phillipians(phil. 2vs12) to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"? I've read some articles on this but still not clear to me. One suggested that the word "work out" is not exactly what it means in greek. It says that the proper word to use in today's english would be "respect"(respect your salvation with fear and trembling, respect the salvation you have been given freely)

To understand this u have to read the following verse which says it God that work in u both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Now the work is this, u are saved by accepting Jesus as ur Lord and savior and nothing added to it for its a free gift. Bt being saved does not mean that u are immediately translated to Heaven, u have to remain on earth n live for Christ. Now remaining on earth and living for Christ means that u manifest His life on earth.

Now working out ur salvation does not mean work ur way till u get saved, u are saved already by accepting Jesus. Even as He had wrought salvation in u, He continues the work by bearing u fruit according to the likeness of Christ. Those seeds are in seed form n needed to be nurtured to maturity which is where ur working out ur salvation comes in. U work out ur salvation by allowing (by being diligent) the HolyGhost to work in u to will and to do of the fathers good pleasure, 'cos even as xtian ur freewill still remain n u can resist Him.

Scriptures to consider
Philippians 2:12-13, Galatian 4:1, 5:16&25, Romans 8:1-6, 2Peter 1:3-10, 3:18

Did not quote all the scriptures not to make the post too long.

Pastor Olu T: To understand this u have to read the following verse which says it God that work in u both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Now the work is this, u are saved by accepting Jesus as ur Lord and savior and nothing added to it for its a free gift. Bt being saved does not mean that u are immediately translated to Heaven, u have to remain on earth n live for Christ. Now remaining on earth and living for Christ means that u manifest His life on earth.

Now working out ur salvation does not mean work ur way till u get saved, u are saved already by accepting Jesus. Even as He had wrought salvation in u, He continues the work by bearing u fruit according to the likeness of Christ. Those seeds are in seed form n needed to be nurtured to maturity which is where ur working out ur salvation comes in. U work out ur salvation by allowing (by being diligent) the HolyGhost to work in u to will and to do of the fathers good pleasure, 'cos even as xtian ur freewill still remain n u can resist Him.

Scriptures to consider
Philippians 2:12-13, Galatian 4:1, 5:16&25, Romans 8:1-6, 2Peter 1:3-10, 3:18

Did not quote all the scriptures not to make the post too long.

thank you pastor. More views needed.

jammyunn: Since we all know that salvation is "FREE" and non of our works determines that. What does Paul mean when he told the phillipians(phil. 2vs12) to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"? I've read some articles on this but still not clear to me. One suggested that the word "work out" is not exactly what it means in greek. It says that the proper word to use in today's english would be "respect"(respect your salvation with fear and trembling, respect the salvation you have been given freely)

Salvation is a free gift from God but that gift can be lost. You have to keep living up to the standard God expects of you to retain that gift.

You must keep doing good and avoiding evil all your life.

That is what it means to "work out" your salvation.

italo:

Salvation is a free gift from God but that gift can be lost. You have to keep living up to the standard God expects of you to retain that gift.

You must keep doing good and avoiding evil all your life.

That is what it means to "work out" your salvation.

the only thing I disagree about your post is that salvation could be lost. We have treated that in this thread https://www.nairaland.com/1467171/saved-person-lose-salvation

jammyunn: the only thing I disagree about your post is that salvation could be lost. We have treated that in this thread https://www.nairaland.com/1467171/saved-person-lose-salvation

I think you rather MISTREATED it in that thread. It is because of your mistreatment that you and Pastor Olu T are now desperately looking for a way to twist "work out your salvation" to mean something else.

If salvation cant be lost, then once you have it, you dont need to work out anything.

You dont need to do anything. You dont even need to "respect" it for it to stay.

Think about it and stop mistreating Bible verses.

italo:

I think you rather MISTREATED it in that thread. It is because of your mistreatment that you and Pastor Olu T are now desperately looking for a way to twist "work out your salvation" to mean something else.

If salvation cant be lost, then once you have it, you dont need to work out anything.

You dont need to do anything. You dont even need to "respect" it for it to stay.

Think about it and stop mistreating Bible verses.

read romans 11:29 and decide yourself.

italo:

I think you rather MISTREATED it in that thread. It is because of your mistreatment that you and Pastor Olu T are now desperately looking for a way to twist "work out your salvation" to mean something else.

If salvation cant be lost, then once you have it, you dont need to work out anything.

You dont need to do anything. You dont even need to "respect" it for it to stay.

Think about it and stop mistreating Bible verses.

Wow i did not see this before now, mistreating working out ur salvation. Little wonder u wrote that in the other thread, Did u read my post? I am so surprise at u, well u cant go beyond urself.

If u will I will want to have a conversation with u, I state here again u dont work for ur salvation bt rather u work out that which is work in in u by the Holy Ghost. U dont do anything to add to ur salvation, bt 'cos u remain on earth u have to remain safe till Jesus come. God had already performed the work of salvation in u bt it is in a seed form, so u have to work it out to make manifest by walking in the spirit daily.

There is absolutely nothing like working to get saved according to the scripture.

NB Pls read the comment n understand before commenting, I also believe salvation could be lost, bt about once saved n saved forever I believe it, bt definitely not what u think. If u want to discuss it i will gladly oblige u.

Stay blessed n remain rapturable

jammyunn: read romans 11:29 and decide yourself.

Yes...yes, brother. God never withdraws his gifts but mankind can reject his gifts.

For further clarification, read the whole passage, not just that one verse.

Particularly:

Verse 22: Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Now can you please address my post?

If we cannot lose salvation, why do we have to "work out" anything?

Pastor Olu T:

Wow i did not see this before now, mistreating working out ur salvation. Little wonder u wrote that in the other thread, Did u read my post? I am so surprise at u, well u cant go beyond urself.

If u will I will want to have a conversation with u, I state here again u dont work for ur salvation bt rather u work out that which is work in in u by the Holy Ghost. U dont do anything to add to ur salvation, bt 'cos u remain on earth u have to remain safe till Jesus come. God had already performed the work of salvation in u bt it is in a seed form, so u have to work it out to make manifest by walking in the spirit daily.

There is absolutely nothing like working to get saved according to the scripture.

NB Pls read the comment n understand before commenting, I also believe salvation could be lost, bt about once saved n saved forever I believe it, bt definitely not what u think. If u want to discuss it i will gladly oblige u.

Stay blessed n remain rapturable

I'm not sure there is need for further discussion on this considering the bold. We both believe that.

But if you still want to discuss further, it is my pleasure.

italo:

I'm not sure there is need for further discussion on this considering the bold. We both believe that.

But if you still want to discuss further, it is my pleasure.

So what is ur understanding of salvation as a whole and how it can be lost? Maybe we start from there

italo:

I'm not sure there is need for further discussion on this considering the bold. We both believe that.

But if you still want to discuss further, it is my pleasure.

So what's ur understanding of salvation and how can it be lost? Maybe we start from there

Pastor Olu T:

So what's ur understanding of salvation and how can it be lost? Maybe we start from there

I think I have a summary of that in my first post. Can we start from there or do you need me to expantiate?

italo:

I think I have a summary of that in my first post. Can we start from there or do you need me to expantiate?

Expantiate pls 'cos this is going to be a deep discourse if u are ready for it?

^^^

Salvation is a free gift by the grace given to those who believe and are baptized. It makes us free of sin and grants us eternal life.

Salvation is however not a one-time thing but a process. It must be nurtured by doing good and avoiding evil.

Failure to do these will lead to the individual losing salvation.

italo: ^^^

Salvation is a free gift by the grace given to those who believe and are baptized. It makes us free of sin and grants us eternal life.

Salvation is however not a one-time thing but a process. It must be nurtured by doing good and avoiding evil.

Failure to do these will lead to the individual losing salvation.

so a process can be undone? A "used" gift can be returned? Have you seen a car that underwent body work and after the onwer returned it to exactly the old stage?

jammyunn: so a process can be undone? A "used" gift can be returned? Have you seen a car that underwent body work and after the onwer returned it to exactly the old stage?

Maybe you should ask St. Paul. He is the one who said: "if you dont CONTINUE in God's kindness, you'll be CUT OFF."

There is ONE question I have asked TWICE which I think you are ashamed or afraid or incapable of answering: IF SALVATION CANT BE LOST, WHY DO WE HAVE TO WORK OUT ANYTHING?

italo:

Maybe you should ask St. Paul. He is the one who said: "if you dont CONTINUE in God's kindness, you'll be CUT OFF."

There is ONE question I have asked TWICE which I think you are ashamed or afraid or incapable of answering: IF SALVATION CANT BE LOST, WHY DO WE HAVE TO WORK OUT ANYTHING?

Phil 2:12 is not dealing with eternal salvation at all because it would contradict other verses of the Bible(which can NEVER be). Rather, it is dealing with temporal salvation from trials and temptations which faithful believers face while on earth.

jammyunn: Phil 2:12 is not dealing with eternal salvation at all because it would contradict other verses of the Bible(which can NEVER be). Rather, it is dealing with temporal salvation from trials and temptations which faithful believers face while on earth.

But according to you, the people Paul was talking to were already saved and could never lose their salvation.

What then is the essence of working out temporal salvation since they'll go to heaven without working out their temporal salvation according to you?

italo:

But according to you, the people Paul was talking to were already saved and could never lose their salvation.

What then is the essence of working out temporal salvation since they'll go to heaven without working out their temporal salvation according to you?

salvation requiries NO work. They are not "working out" their salvation to make heaven but rather to leave peaceably on earth!

jammyunn: salvation requiries NO work. They are not "working out" their salvation to make heaven but rather to leave peaceably on earth!

Why should they work out their salvation to leave peacably on earth when they have already made heaven?

And why did St Paul say in the earlier verse that those who dont continue in God's kindness will be cut off?

Two of u are both right but its just the way u understood this so dont argue to disagree bt argue to agree n not for ulterior motives, bear with me I will join this conversation soon.

Stay blessed and remain rapturable

Pastor Olu T: Two of u are both right but its just the way u understood this so dont argue to disagree bt argue to agree n not for ulterior motives, bear with me I will join this conversation soon.

Stay blessed and remain rapturable

I dont think so. He is saying once a person is "born-again," heaven is assured. I am saying that is a big lie.

We cannot both be correct.

God bless you too.

italo:

Why should they work out their salvation to leave peacably on earth when they have already made heaven?

And why did St Paul say in the earlier verse that those who dont continue in God's kindness will be cut off?

In Phillipians 1:19, Paul said, "For I know that this will turn out for my salvation through your prayers and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ." Does it mean Paul hasn't been saved when he wrote the Phillipians? He's talking about salvation from the cares of this world not the free eternal salvation Christ has given us. As long as we are on earth, we MUST face trials and temptations. Translation is very important in understanding the Bible. From the greek word, "cut off" refers to immediate "death", spiritual or physical and not losing salvation. You misunderstand this eternal security because you think it gives one license to sin but that's not true. It also does not negate that our salvation is ETERNAL(john 3:16).

jammyunn: In Phillipians 1:19, Paul said, "For I know that this will turn out for my salvation through your prayers and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ." Does it mean Paul hasn't been saved when he wrote the Phillipians? He's talking about salvation from the cares of this world not the free eternal salvation Christ has given us. As long as we are on earth, we MUST face trials and temptations. Translation is very important in understanding the Bible. From the greek word, "cut off" refers to immediate "death", spiritual or physical and not losing salvation. You misunderstand this eternal security because you think it gives one license to sin but that's not true. It also does not negate that our salvation is ETERNAL(john 3:16).

Just look at the bold you wrote.

I think you might be confused. Can one that is cut-off from Christ (spiritually dead) make heaven?

Absolutely not. In fact, the Bible is full of passages that either directly or indirectly contradict this doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved.”

Rom 11:17-23, “But if some of the branches were broken off (the Jews), and you, a wild olive shoot (the Gentiles), were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree (Jesus Christ) do not boast over the branches...For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you...Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”
Paul is talking about how salvation has come to the Gentiles, while many of the Jews have rejected it. And he makes it very clear that once you have been grafted into Christ, you must “continue in His kindness,” or you can also be cut off. So, even after you’ve been saved, you can still be cut off from Jesus Christ.

Gal 5:1, “For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery (sin).” If once saved always saved is true, then one cannot “submit again” to a “yoke of slavery,” and Paul’s warning would make no sense.
But Paul goes on in verse 4 to say, “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.” Paul is talking to Gentile Christians who had been wrongly taught by the Judaizers that they have to be circumcised and obey the Mosaic Law in order to be true Christians. Paul tells them that is false, and if they submit to circumcision and to the Old Law, they will be “severed from Christ.” If once saved always saved is true, they can’t be severed from Christ and, once again, Paul’s warning is meaningless.

Luke 15. The Prodigal Son was in his father’s house, and the father here is representative of God the Father. Then, the Prodigal Son leaves his father’s house and goes and lives a sinful life. In the end, though, he repents and returns to his father. After the Prodigal Son returns, the father says this of in verse 24: “For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.”
In Evangelical terminology, to be dead is to be unsaved, and to be alive is to be saved. Notice very carefully, though, that the father says the son is alive “again.” In other words, the son was alive, or saved, when he was in his father’s house at the beginning of the parable; was “dead,” or unsaved, when he left his father’s house and lived in sin; then was alive again, saved again, when he repented and returned to his father’s house. Alive, dead, alive again. Saved, unsaved, saved again.
Once saved always saved? A BIG LIE!

@ jammyunn,

Just in case you're still insistent on twisting the word of God, here are a few more verses for you to twist:

"...but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9, 27);


"I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4, 4).

Paul was saved, yet he was worried about being disqualified.


"For if we wilfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries" (Heb. 10, 26-27).

If "WE" (who are saved) continue in sin, we are building our bridge to hell.

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED IS A BIG LIE, BROTHER!

I love you.

God love you.

What is work out ? We go to the gym to develop our God given muscles etc. God has blessed us with everything in christ. But you must work it out by knowledge, by faith, and by acting it out.

italo:

I dont think so. He is saying once a person is "born-again," heaven is assured. I am saying that is a big lie.

We cannot both be correct.

God bless you too.

U are 'cos u are both xtians n are growing to maturity though our (not excluding myself) understanding might be limited now.

It is established from the scriptures that one can turn back even after the light of the truth. But that doesn't mean our friend jammyunn dont agree with this Italo?

When one is saved he is saved forever n a candidate of Heaven, the thief at the right hand of Jesus established that. But 'cos he is not translated to Heaven immediately, he continue to show that new life on earth which is where working out ur salvation comes in.

Now working out ur salvation doesn't mean u work or live right to be saved, we dont live right or work to be saved, bt rather we are saved which is why we live right n work. I think that is simple enough to understand 'cos our salvation is a free gift.

We are put here to represent Christ for as He is so are we in the world and grow to the stature of the measure of the fullness of Christ. We dont add anything to our salvation, we cant be saved more or less, we are just saved by what Christ did which is enough.

Now that we are saved we bear fruits (works) of our salvation which shows we are indeed saved, but not that we are going to be saved. We are not to live as enemy of the cross 'cos if we do we will be cast away bt God forbid.

So in conclusion the working out ur salvation is not working to be saved, bt 'cos we are saved we work it out. The Holy Ghost has already wrought salvation in us so its our duty to work it out to show we are indeed saved. Read verse 13 to get a clearer picture.

I did not quote scriptures not to make the post too long n also 'cos I am using my phone.
Scriptures to consider, my fist post.

Joagbaje: What is work out ? We go to the gym to develop our God given muscles etc. God has blessed us with everything in christ. But you must work it out by knowledge, by faith, and by acting it out.

Concise

@OP,
Working out our salvation is exercising what Christ has already given us to show we are truly His and so we do not fall. A baby needs to grow and move from taking milk to taking meat then bones. It is growing in faith...being born of water and spirit.

The scripture below highlights this:

2 Peter 1:1-11

1 This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ.
I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior.

2 May God give you more and more grace and peace as you grow in your knowledge of God and Jesus our Lord.

3 By his divine power, God has given us everything we need for living a godly life. We have received all of this by coming to know him, the one who called us to himself by means of his marvelous glory and excellence.

4 And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world’s corruption caused by human desires.

5 In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God’s promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellence, and moral excellence with knowledge,

6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with patient endurance, and patient endurance with godliness,

7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love for everyone.

8 The more you grow like this, the more productive and useful you will be in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But those who fail to develop in this way are shortsighted or blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their old sins.

10 So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Do these things, and you will never fall away.

11 Then God will give you a grand entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ[/b]

It is like when Jesus spoke about the talents. Jesus has given us all we need for life and godliness, in the same way, Some exercise it and grow by gaining more but one buries his talent and does not bear fruit.(Matthew 25)
Working out our salvation is what makes us bear fruits and Jesus is returning for those who bear fruits for him (John 15:1-5).

Alwaystrue: @OP,
Working out our salvation is exercising what Christ has already given us to show we are truly His and so we do not fall. A baby needs to grow and move from taking milk to taking meat then bones. It is growing in faith...being born of water and spirit.

The scripture below highlights this:

2 Peter 1:1-11

1 This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ.
I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior.

2 May God give you more and more grace and peace as you grow in your knowledge of God and Jesus our Lord.

3 By his divine power, God has given us everything we need for living a godly life. We have received all of this by coming to know him, the one who called us to himself by means of his marvelous glory and excellence.

4 And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world’s corruption caused by human desires.

5 In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God’s promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellence, and moral excellence with knowledge,

6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with patient endurance, and patient endurance with godliness,

7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love for everyone.

8 The more you grow like this, the more productive and useful you will be in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But those who fail to develop in this way are shortsighted or blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their old sins.

10 So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Do these things, and you will never fall away.

11 Then God will give you a grand entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ[/b]

It is like when Jesus spoke about the talents. Jesus has given us all we need for life and godliness, in the same way, Some exercise it and grow by gaining more but one buries his talent and does not bear fruit.(Matthew 25)
Working out our salvation is what makes us bear fruits and Jesus is returning for those who bear fruits for him (John 15:1-5).

Nice one, part of the scriptures I quoted earlier on.

Once saved always saved? EXODUS 32 Moses went to Mount Sinai to receive the 10 commandments written on 2 tables of testimony,tables of stone,written with the finger of God.The israelites thought Moses was delaying and beckone Aaron.The golden calf was fashioned with their earrings and in the morning burnt and peace offerings were offered.God told Moses about this thing that has been done and God intendf to consume them and start afresh with Moses(just like Noah after d flood).Moses went into the camp and he saw all that was done.He then returned to God and said"...Oh this people have sinned a great sin and have made them gods of gold.Yet now,if thou wilt forgive their sin-;and if not,blot me,i pray thee,out of THY BOOK which thou hast written."Moses is reffering here to the book of life(rev 20:12-15) and only those whose names are in d book of life will reign with christ(vs 15).1.Moses knew at this moment that his name is in the book of life.This represent those that have been saved by grace through faith and have the assurance of salvation.2.Mose talked abt his name being blotted.Moses recognised that those that av been saved can be blotted out of the book of life."And the Lord said unto Moses,Whosoever hath sinned against me,him will i blot out of my book"exo 32:33.3.God also said that names can be bloted out of the bonk of life.4.sin is the reason why names can be blotted out.BUT does God not say that he will forgive any confessed and repented sin?Mathew 12:31-"...all manner of sin and blashemy against the holy ghost shall not be forgiven unto men".A sin against the holy spirit is understood in the context of his work."and when he is come,he will reprove the world of sin,and of righteousness and of judgment"(john16:.The holy spirit brings conviction to our heart so that we will not fall.Whenever we are tempted,the holy spirit speaks to us not to heed the words of the tempter.The unpardonable sin is the sin of CONSTANTLY rejecting the conviction of the spirit until the heart is hardened and can no longer hear God's voice.Heb 10:26-"for if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins".When the truth is brought to our heart by the spirit and we decide to CONTINUE to walk away from the truth,we sin against the Holy Spirit.This sin can be committed by those saved and those who are not.A christian that fornicates and never yield to the conviction of the spirit and continues therein is guily of sinning against the Holy Spirit.e.g Judas.This happens when we continue in those sins until we are totally fallen.Heb 6:4-6-"for it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift,and were made partakers of the HolyGhost,and have tasted the good word of God,and the powers of the world to come,IF THEY SHALL AWAY TO RENEW THEM AGAING UNTO REPENTANCE;seeing they crucify to themselves the son of God afresh,and put him to an open shame"The sin against the holyspirit is unpardonable and it is the sin reffered to by God as the reason why names can be blotted out from the book of life.Once saved is not always saved.We need to allow God to work in us through the spirit,to tell us what to do and what not to do,to sanctify us and align us to the image of Christ,transforming us throught the word of God-this is the working in.Working out is when we daily exhibit the character of Christ that has been worked in.It is when we obey his law out of love(john 14:15) and we extend this love to others by caring for their spiritual and physical needs.A daily walk of holiness made possible by our surrender to the Holy Spirit to work in.finally,"know ye not that they which run in a race run all,but one receiveth the prize?SO RUN,THAT YE MAY OBTAIN(1 COR 9:24)