Joagbaje:

I guess you misunderstood me. I wasn't recommending gift as yardstick . His father was a miracle worker . But I didn't really see him flow in such grace yet he had more people. It's a sign it's God working grace through him.

Yeah..i guess i did.My apologies.

Goshen360: "word of faith movement" thing.

Is faith a LAW?

christemmbassey: i had decided to only follow this thread for a while, but this ur post has forced me out. Joa it is very very sad that u should av such a mind. Imagine u advocating for trading on d word of God, so u mean, d power to heal etc was given by God, but inspiration to preach was bought therefor, should b sld for profit? It is a pitty dat uve been sold totally to worldliness and greed, i we'v bn vindicated for calling tithe collectors fraudsters. U asked for support b4 u write a book, when d writting is done, u asked 4 assistance to publish, after u've published, u asked for partnership to distribute and then sell at 10x d production cost. How much did u pay God n d holy phost? This is very unfortunate. U think God took u to CEC to complicate things? Pls brother, ask urself, why am i here? God bless.

And what on earth has the thread or the post you quoted got to do with your tithe obsession? Indeed, you deserve no answer as usual.

@topic
nLmediator is obviously pissed and I wonder why. You are not concerned with the scriptures but fighting and beating the air like most false teachers do.
You jumped into the thread and start posting with anger. There are things I cannot mention here for some reasons. You totally missed and mixed everything up. I will not try to engage you as you are not concerned about the scriptures but your feelings and "thoughts".

If you are concerned about scriptures, go through the thread from page 0 and read scriptures posted already, most of your posts have been attended to in previous posts.
READ THE SCRIPTURES GIVEN. Don't just argue.

@Joel's issue

I doubt you have listened to him preach on the fundamental doctrines of Christ.
You said he has led many to Christ and I'm wondering which Jo you speak of. He doesn't even believe in Salvation and repentance as taught in the scriptures.
I repeat, Joel is a false teacher who has repeatedly denied Salvation, Repentance, and many more. He preaches new age gospel and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans.
He preaches Universalism and that is in accordance to end time prophecies.

When a preacher said false teachers a a judgment to those that have been deceived, I initially disagreed. My discussions with many Christians have really opened my eyes to that fact.

Truly, in the last days, men will depart from the faith. Men will refuse sound doctrine. The love of many will wax cold.

nlMediator:

His father's book on the Holy Ghost in-filling was a big blessing to me when I was a student in Nigeria. His father was a towering figure in Houston and when he died the news people started saying the church was going to collapse soon. Instead, within a few years, Joel took the church from 5,000 to about 16,000. Amazingly, unlike most churches in America that are dominated by one racial group, his father had a church that was roughly 1/3 white, 1/3 black and 1/3 hispanic. When the church got to 16,000, it still maintained the father's balance! Now, the church is about 45,000 members and by far the largest church in America. I don't think there's even another church that has up to 30,000 members let alone 45,000.

Oh dear! Is this what we should be bragging about?

^^^

Joel is not here bragging, is he? Actually, diversity of a church is a big thing in America. Reason is a history of racism and other factors. In the secular world, there's still a lot of segregation. So, it was expected that the church would be different. Yet, it was not. In fact, Martin Luther King Jr. described the 11 o'clock hour - service time - as the most segregated hour in America. That was about 50 years ago. Still today, when you tune in to your TV and see the churches, you can easily tell the color of the pastor by the color of the congregation. Even great ministers like TD Jakes and KC Price have a small percentage of non-blacks in their congregation while white pastors' churches are also filled with white people. Nigerian churches are filled with Nigerians. So, when one has a church that is that different, it may not matter to you, bu it means a lot to us here. Joel's dad was one of those who related with black people when it was unpopular or even dangerous. I guess it paid off. Indeed, I believe much of Joel's success today is attributable to the good spiritual seeds sowed by his father.

fr_evangel: @topic
nLmediator is obviously pissed and I wonder why. You are not concerned with the scriptures but fighting and beating the air like most false teachers do.
You jumped into the thread and start posting with anger. There are things I cannot mention here for some reasons. You totally missed and mixed everything up. I will not try to engage you as you are not concerned about the scriptures but your feelings and "thoughts".

If you are concerned about scriptures, go through the thread from page 0 and read scriptures posted already, most of your posts have been attended to in previous posts.
READ THE SCRIPTURES GIVEN. Don't just argue.

@Joel's issue

I doubt you have listened to him preach on the fundamental doctrines of Christ.
You said he has led many to Christ and I'm wondering which Jo you speak of. He doesn't even believe in Salvation and repentance as taught in the scriptures.
I repeat, Joel is a false teacher who has repeatedly denied Salvation, Repentance, and many more. He preaches new age gospel and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans.
He preaches Universalism and that is in accordance to end time prophecies.

Sure, I was upset when you started lying about Joel and I do not like the idea of sowing seeds of disunity in the body of Christ. Before then, my participation here was as pleasant (!) as can be. You know next to nothing about Joel. Joel preaches Jesus as the only way to salvation. He makes 2 altar calls in every service. When you watch him on TV, that altar call he makes is only a beginning. After that, he urges people to give him about 5 minutes, in which he emphasizes the importance of giving your life to Jesus and escaping eternal damnation. Unless, you do not know the meaning of universalism, no universalist has the time for one altar call, let alone two in one service. And he preaches 3 services every weekend. After the sinner's prayer, he encourages the new believers to join a discipleship class that takes place in the church auditorium to learn more about the fundamentals of the faith.

Joagbaje:

I guess you misunderstood me. I wasn't recommending gift as yardstick . His father was a miracle worker . But I didn't really see him flow in such grace yet he had more people. It's a sign it's God working grace through him.

Yes, his father was used mightily in the area of healings and miracles. One of his daughters, Lisa, was born with something like cerebral palsy. She was not supposed to talk, be normal or live independently. But he went deep into scriptures and found healing for her. Today, she is one of the ministers in the church, wrote a book recently, and has no sign of any sickness or disease. John Osteen was also a big time international evangelist and probably the most successful pastor among the first generation Word of Faith leaders - Hagin and Copeland, e.g., did not have a pastoral calling.

nlMediator:

Sure, I was upset when you started lying about Joel and I do not like the idea of sowing seeds of disunity in the body of Christ. Before then, my participation here was as pleasant (!) as can be. You know next to nothing about Joel. Joel preaches Jesus as the only way to salvation. He makes 2 altar calls in every service. When you watch him on TV, that altar call he makes is only a beginning. After that, he urges people to give him about 5 minutes, in which he emphasizes the importance of giving your life to Jesus and escaping eternal damnation. Unless, you do not know the meaning of universalism, no universalist has the time for one altar call, let alone two in one service. And he preaches 3 services every weekend. After the sinner's prayer, he encourages the new believers to join a discipleship class that takes place in the church auditorium to learn more about the fundamentals of the faith.

You either do not know Joel or you are deceived already or you don't know what salvation and the gospel is. Whichever, you need to stop listening and defending Joel for some time. During this period, study your bible ALONE and PRAYERFULLY.
Probably fast from your biggest distractions (food or tv or any other thing that craves for your attention). When you study, use no book or message but a study bible and make comparison within scriptures.
Make notes and go over it again and again. When you are done, you should not worry about what I've said but what the scriptures say.

My desire is to see Christians return to the written word. Too many have left the scriptures for craftily devised false doctrines, thinking it's the gospel.

^^^

So you know Joel better than I do? How many times have you met him, being in his service or listened to him? Your delusion appears boundless.

fr_evangel:

You either do not know Joel or you are deceived already or you don't know what salvation and the gospel is. Whichever, you need to stop listening and defending Joel for some time. During this period, study your bible ALONE and PRAYERFULLY.
Probably fast from your biggest distractions (food or tv or any other thing that craves for your attention). When you study, use no book or message but a study bible and make comparison within scriptures.
Make notes and go over it again and again. When you are done, you should not worry about what I've said but what the scriptures say.

My desire is to see Christians return to the written word. Too many have left the scriptures for craftily devised false doctrines, thinking it's the gospel.

Ah ah. Discrepancy dey here oh. NLM seems to be a member of Mr Joel's church with firsthand experience. You seem to have heard him few times. i think he(NLM) should be given benefit of doubt na. Anyway you people carry your Joel talk go another place na make we wey no sabi am get something to read from this thread.

Joagbaje:
Some ministers RECIEVE specific instruction or calling to make materials free for people . It's their personal calling. And God who call them gave them partners to sponsor the publications. But not every man have such grace ,and you can't judge peter for collecting money just because paul did not.

mr jo, yhu said theres a difference btw a pastor the preacher and a pst the publisher and i want to know...the pastor the publisher publishes by what means? is he a salary earner? if he is not, why would he sell a book others paid for the publishing to them that paid?

ATMC: mr jo, yhu said theres a difference btw a pastor the preacher and a pst the publisher and i want to know...the pastor the publisher publishes by what means? is he a salary earner? if he is not, why would he sell a book others paid for the publishing to them that paid?

lol