ayoku777: This is why i don't reply most posts. This is what scripture calls 'gainsaying'. When it suits you, you say a passage or word in scripture is literal, when it doesn't suit you, you call it a 'hyperbole' or 'figurative' expression

ayoku777: So paul was talking about REAL bread and REAL wine, but he meant 'hungry' and 'drunken' figuratively

So the disciples were 'figuratively' drunk during communion?

ayoku777: When christians begin to interprete scriptures this way, its called gainsaying.

Was it not the same fruit of the vine that Jesus drank that Noah also drank and got drunk?

Gen 9v20-21 ...and Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a VINEYARD. And he drank of the wine and was DRUNKEN.

Or drunken here is also figurative? Or his own was not new like that of Jesus? Vine wine is alcoholic old or new. And it will get you drunk if you take it without discretion.

Stop gainsaying - saying passages are figurative or literal as it suits your view. Thats trying to make scriptures say what you want it to say.

Pastor Kun:

So what would you say about palmwine that God produced for our consumption as alcoholic

Pastor Kun: Psalms 104:14
14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, And herb for the service of man; That he may bring forth food out of the earth,
15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, And oil to make his face to shine, And bread that strengtheneth man's heart.

In the above scripture the psalmist is thanking God for his provision, he especially qualifies wine here in thanking God. Some other bible versions state 'wine for enjoyment' 'wine for merriment' wine is clearly seen here as a gift from God, so why all this hypocrisy

ayoku777: So was it not the same fruit of the vine Jesus and his disciples drank? Don't cherry pick the ones you can argue over.

ayoku777: The same vine that Noah drank is the same Jesus drank.

rapture_ready:

Who talk so? You? You been dey dia?
How come Noah drank his and went all Clint-Da-drunk on us all, and Jesus/his disciples drank theirs and still remained cool as ice?

Mintayo:
the statement you made above is not true!
so all those wine we buy with the inscription 'non-alcoholic' are alcoholic? I think you need to research well.
what diffferentiaite an alcoholic wine from a non-alcoholic wine?

Image123:

Learned people know that the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof, and that there is nothing unclean of itself. Learned people also know that every fruit contains sugar and ethanol. The content/percentage increases with fermentation. This is basic science and rural palm wine knowledge. Your sugar, your coca-cola, your medicine, lt all contains the likes of alcohol, cocaine, hemp and such banned substances.
Google is still free for your learning. You can't compare the fruit of the vine and whatever other fruit juice with alcohol content of about 0.1% or less to the likes of gin and whisky(above 40% alcohol), spirit(above 80%), brandy(35%) or beer(above 2% depending on which and not to mention the fishes and carton devourers that help multiply the percentage).
The bible solemnly discourages intake of alcoholic wine.

Image123: Just did a quick search to help some to a link that says something similar. Note the following quote from the link.
"In many countries any drink with less than 0.5% ABV can legally be
described as non-alcoholic , because your body can metabolise the
alcohol as fast as you consume the drink. Although all orange juice
contains alcohol, the quantity is low enough that you won’t get
intoxicated from it, even if you drink many glasses of it. However in
places with zero-tolerance rules against driving with any measurable
alcohol in your blood, you might need to be careful if you are a very
heavy orange juice drinker."

http://quezi.com/14067

Image123:

i see you dodged the two posts i gave past 12pm today. i already gave Proverbs 31:4 as well. There is no assuming. Timothy was permitted to drink wine on health grounds, yes or no?

rapture_ready:

If you have a problem with the book of proverbs, check out;

Eph 5:18 ...and be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess, but be filled with the spirit

And sir please try not to resort to insults in an attempt to win an argument, it does not look well on any child of God. Remember the bible said "by their fruits you shall know them" and "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh"

rapture_ready:

Paul wasn't asking timothy to sin. Like I said before he was asking him to take medicine, as the verse stresses; "for thy stomach's sake". If you have a medical condition and are prescribed alcohol or alcohol based drugs for treatment, IT IS NO SIN TO TAKE YOUR MEDICATION!

rapture_ready:

I speak and quote bible= U r trying to twist scriptures
I speak, I no quote bible= U r speaking ur opinion, bak it up wit scriptural references
Wetin man go do 4 nairalanders?

truthislight: Actually, for someone that just registered on NL some 2 days befor making this statement below, i think it is inappropriate and too hasty, unless you are an old member here on NL with a level of experience.

You talk as though you 'know NL too well', hence a conclussive frustrating exclamation.



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I just hope you are not Oladegbu with a new ID. Smh.

Lordlexyy: @rapture. If i drink and i don't get drunk(which is possible), now tell me, what exactly is the sin that i have sin? Is it the mere taken of the alcohol or the attitude that follows? Or is sin no longer judged base on action and effect?

ayoku777:

So you can't drink alcohol without getting drunk? All this just to endorse your sentiments.

If you can deny that the wine that got the believers drunk at corinth was not the wine of the communion, or say that 'drunk' there was figurative. Then you will say anything to project your sentiment.

Im just glad to know those reading the points will see things with unbiased opinion.

ayoku777: This is why i don't reply most posts. This is what scripture calls 'gainsaying'. When it suits you, you say a passage or word in scripture is literal, when it doesn't suit you, you call it a 'hyperbole' or 'figurative' expression

So paul was talking about REAL bread and REAL wine, but he meant 'hungry' and 'drunken' figuratively

So the disciples were 'figuratively' drunk during communion?

When christians begin to interprete scriptures this way, its called gainsaying.

Was it not the same fruit of the vine that Jesus drank that Noah also drank and got drunk?

Gen 9v20-21 ...and Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a VINEYARD. And he drank of the wine and was DRUNKEN.

Or drunken here is also figurative? Or his own was not new like that of Jesus? Vine wine is alcoholic old or new. And it will get you drunk if you take it without discretion.

Stop gainsaying - saying passages are figurative or literal as it suits your view. Thats trying to make scriptures say what you want it to say.

You so badly want to say the wine Jesus and the disciples drank is not alcoholic, and you're willing to gainsay to do that. But vine wine is alcoholic, whether its old or new. Thats why on the day of pentecost, when they were mocking the believers, they said in acts 2v13 ...others mocking said, These men are full of NEW wine.

ayoku777: Deut 14v26 (KJV) And thou shall bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth; and thou shall eat there before the Lord thy God and thou shalt rejoice, thou and thine household.

(NLT) When you arrive, you may use the money to buy any kind of food you want—cattle, sheep, goats, wine, or other alcoholic drink. Then feast there in the presence of the LORD your God and celebrate with your household. (NLT)

(NIV) Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. (NIV)

(ESV) And spend the money for whatever you desire— oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. (ESV)

If there is no pride in this debate, this scripture should end all arguments.

Coz if drinking wine is a sin, then this scripture means God is condoning sin. And that is heresis on every level.

ayoku777: Deut 14v26 (KJV) And thou shall bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth; and thou shall eat there before the Lord thy God and thou shalt rejoice, thou and thine household.

(NLT) When you arrive, you may use the money to buy any kind of food you want—cattle, sheep, goats, wine, or other alcoholic drink. Then feast there in the presence of the LORD your God and celebrate with your household. (NLT)

(NIV) Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. (NIV)

(ESV) And spend the money for whatever you desire— oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. (ESV)

If there is no pride in this debate, this scripture should end all arguments.

Coz if drinking wine is a sin, then this scripture means God is condoning sin. And that is heresis on every level.

Goshen360:

One translation even said "beer". Allow them continue to play double standard with scriptures simply because they can't deal with the truth.

ayoku777: Deut 14v26 (KJV) And thou shall bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth; and thou shall eat there before the Lord thy God and thou shalt rejoice, thou and thine household.

(NLT) When you arrive, you may use the money to buy any kind of food you want—cattle, sheep, goats, wine, or other alcoholic drink. Then feast there in the presence of the LORD your God and celebrate with your household. (NLT)

(NIV) Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. (NIV)

(ESV) And spend the money for whatever you desire— oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. (ESV)

If there is no pride in this debate, this scripture should end all arguments.

Coz if drinking wine is a sin, then this scripture means God is condoning sin. And that is heresis on every level.

Pastor Kun:

This passage actually nails the coffin for those who try to distort scripture and claim Christians ought not to drink. They have attempted to twist wine in some cases to mean fruit juice but we all know strong drink in every sense of the word means alcoholic drink which could be anything from ogogoro to beer except our bible twisters want to twist strong drink to mean something else again.

@image123
I hope you reading, the bible says you should use your tithes to drink wine and beer.

Image123: Most of this guys don't fail to disappoint. Unfortunate if i may so say. Perhaps it has something to do with the drinking.

Anyways, for those interested in learning instead of amusing themselves. Please read this link and its following chapters. It pretty much explains what i may want to say on this thread,

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/1.html

Image123: Most of this guys don't fail to disappoint. Unfortunate if i may so say. Perhaps it has something to do with the drinking.

Anyways, for those interested in learning instead of amusing themselves. Please read this link and its following chapters. It pretty much explains what i may want to say on this thread,

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/1.html

Lordlexyy: You are obviously fighting a lost battle. After all the evidence ayok provided, like a gentle man i expect you to graciously take a bow or admit your insufficient knowledge on the subject matter. Your rebuttal, if any should largely concentrate on the consequences of alcohol. Pls don't try to provide any link to anything because that will be unnecessary and it will be considered as pride and ignorance. Bless.