I love to always study people's mentality to get a handle on why they believe what they believe. The error comes from equating christianity with suffering instead of glorifying Christ.

When we see miracles as something Christ USED to do, or something He only does when he feels like, we will erroneously over-celebrate suffering, and wont even let the suffering result in the breaking forth of His glory in power through us.

Signs and wonders is the nature of Christ and the lifestyle of the kingdom of God.

The only way to grow in the knowledge of God's work is to do what it says and seek the reality of its revelation. This is experience. To say experience counts for nothing in the word is the opinion that reduces 'revelation' to rhetorics. And it makes one call whatever happens to them as 'suffering for Christ'. When it is just plain lack of reality of glory.

Dont wana derail this thread, which is about tongues. So would stop here.

Let him that does not speak in tongues condemn he that speaks. Let him that speak in tongue in public worship stop the speaking without interpretation and let him speak to God in private. Public speaking in tongues in our worship places is abuse of tongues gift, such are still in Corinthian church, move unto to Ephesians.

Goshen360: Let him that does not speak in tongues condemn he that speaks. Let him that speak in tongue in public worship stop the speaking without interpretation and let him speak to God in private. Public speaking in tongues in our worship places is abuse of tongues gift, such are still in Corinthian church, move unto to Ephesians.

Speak plainly, not in dark speeches.Are you for or against gifts of tongues?

All one will notice about those who would rather take the lazy style of praying in a tongue (gibberish) is the fixation on self -Me, myself and I. When someone claims to have had a tongues experience, according to the Book, who are they edifying? Themselves. It's an ego trip, and that's what it amounts to.

The primary purpose of all that we do is to bring honor and glory to God whom we claim we worship. Pursue the best gift, the gift of teaching knowing fully well that God's grace is always sufficient for you.

I Corinthians 14:3

"But he that prophesieth(teaches) speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort." Paul said in verse 1 that the one that they should really long for is the gift of speaking the Word of God. That's the number one criteria and in verse 3 he re-emphasizes it again.


I Corinthians 14:3

"But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification. (to lift him up, support him) and exhortation (to encourage him. Every one of us need to be encouraged throughout our daily walk) and comfort."


we know that we're in this old world which is under the curse, and a lot of people are hurting. How can we best comfort them? By proclaiming to them the Word of God. The bible says the world is groaning even we with the first fruit of the Spirit are also groaning like a pregnant woman in birth pangs. If we have been told this, shouldn't that prepare our minds to face any problem head on. But many will lie to us that you have been made to have all the gold and comfort in this world hence if the gold is not forthcoming we get perturbed and stressed.


Moreover, it must be said that the Corinthians were so weak in the fundamentals. Paul is writing to these weak, carnal, fleshly, believers that have just come out of abject immorality in Corinth. He's writing to correct them because they had so many problems. So the whole theme of I Corinthians is to correct problems, and this whole letter has to be studied in that light.

shdemidemi: All one will notice about those who would rather take the lazy style of praying in a tongue (gibberish) is the fixation on self -Me, myself and I. When someone claims to have had a tongues experience, according to the Book, who are they edifying? Themselves. It's an ego trip, and that's what it amounts to.

It is not an ego trip, you are adding to God's word sir!

The primary purpose of all that we do is to bring honor and glory to God whom we claim we worship. Pursue the best gift, the gift of teaching knowing fully well that God's grace is always sufficient for you.

We know that, The bible says ALL can prophesy,but this does not mean that everyone holds the office of a prophet or teacher.EVERYONE has been given spiritual gifts(Charisma gifts), speaking in tongues is a DOORWAY to ACTIVATE the gifts. Not everyone has DOMA gifts(Ephesians 4). Stop confusing and aggravating issues here. Infact Scripture debunks your theory by advising that not many of us should become teachers.
James 3:1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment. 2For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.…

we know that we're in this old world which is under the curse, and a lot of people are hurting. How can we best comfort them? By proclaiming to them the Word of God. The bible says the world is groaning even we with the first fruit of the Spirit are also groaning like a pregnant woman in birth pangs. If we have been told this, shouldn't that prepare our minds to face any problem head on. But many will lie to us that you have been made to have all the gold and comfort in this world hence if the gold is not forthcoming we get perturbed and stressed.

It is the WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT TO DO THE COMFORTING not you or me.We are just to be willing vessels who yield to HIM.
You can speak the logos and leave out His rhema.That's always the problem bro.

Moreover, it must be said that the Corinthians were so weak in the fundamentals. Paul is writing to these weak, carnal, fleshly, believers that have just come out of abject immorality in Corinth. He's writing to correct them because they had so many problems. So the whole theme of I Corinthians is to correct problems, and this whole letter has to be studied in that light.

There is NO PERFECT church bro.Each church planted by Paul has its strengths and weaknesses that is the reason why Paul wrote the LETTERS, to ENCOURAGE them in their christian walk. The Corinthians strength is that they came behind in NO GIFTS( 1 COR 1:7),because they are weak does not mean they are not THE LORDS CHURCH. God even told Paul to keep speaking because HE HAS MANY PEOPLE IN THE CITY OF CORINTH (Acts 18:9-11).

Haba shedemidemi, because they are carnal, we shouldn't learn about their strength abi? like some one rightly pointed out should we throw the baby with the bath water?

The problem with you sir! is that you fail to see that the church is not the end of God's intention,but the vehicle that is able to bring forth His KINGDOM.The church is just a school to mature and then release saints into their ministry.We should Teach THE WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD AS FAR AS IT IS IN SCRIPTURE,WE ARE NOT TO PICK ONE AND LEAVE THE OTHER.

Bidam: It is not an ego trip, you are adding to God's word sir!
We know that, The bible says ALL can prophesy,but this does not mean that everyone holds the office of a prophet or teacher.EVERYONE has been given spiritual gifts(Charisma gifts), speaking in tongues is a DOORWAY to ACTIVATE the gifts. Not everyone has DOMA gifts(Ephesians 4). Stop confusing and aggravating issues here. Infact Scripture debunks your theory by advising that not many of us should become teachers.
James 3:1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment. 2For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.…



It is the WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT TO DO THE COMFORTING not you or me.We are just to be willing vessels who yield to HIM.
You can speak the logos and leave out His rhema.That's always the problem bro.

There is NO PERFECT church bro.Each church planted by Paul has its strengths and weaknesses that is the reason why Paul wrote the LETTERS, to ENCOURAGE them in their christian walk. The Corinthians strength is that they came behind in NO GIFTS( 1 COR 1:7),because they are weak does not mean they are not THE LORDS CHURCH. God even told Paul to keep speaking because HE HAS MANY PEOPLE IN THE CITY OF CORINTH (Acts 18:9-11).

Haba shedemidemi, because they are carnal, we shouldn't learn about their strength abi? like some one rightly pointed out should we throw the baby with the bath water?

The problem with you sir! is that you fail to see that the church is not the end of God's intention,but the vehicle that is able to bring forth His KINGDOM.The church is just a school to mature and then release saints into their ministry.We should Teach THE WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD AS FAR AS IT IS IN SCRIPTURE,WE ARE NOT TO PICK ONE AND LEAVE THE OTHER.

Bidam thank you, now, our bro Demi is d same like Thomas, and i will continue to let him know dat, d fact dat u don't sweat does nt mean dat d weather is cold, lets stop to use our individual experiences to describe/undastand christianity, d bible says, the spirit is one but gives dif gifts, he gave one word of wisdom, another, word of knoledge, yet another, healing, speaking in tongues, another interpretation of tongues, working of miracles etc (1cor 12:1-31) the fact dat i can teach d word but can nt perform miracles heal, speak in tongue or decernment of spirits does nt mean dat such gifts are nt there, yes, there are fakes everywhere especiary in naija, but there are still genuine ones. So bro Demi, ur experiences can nt pass for true christianity, but i know u are nt standing but moving towards d mark, so i believe, one day, u will meet with a gift u never believe, just be sincere in ur heart. Peter never believed in eating unclean food until d Cornlius household encounter. Let Demi PLS STUDY 1COR 12. Blessed sunday to all.

Bidam: Speak plainly, not in dark speeches.Are you for or against gifts of tongues?

You have been with me on this forum for too long and you still don't know where I stand as per tongues? There's no middle ground here bro.

We begin a journey to corrective surgery and knowledge in our churches (2 Timothy 3:16) and we shall discuss the Abuse or misuse of speaking in tongues. The whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 14 taught on Spiritual gifts, contrasting between prophecy and speaking or praying in tongues. Many of us Christians should be willing to learn and\or UN-learn what the institutionalized church had once taught us when we were still young Christians, we have to be open minded to go back again now that we're grown in the Christian faith.

New Living Translation (NLT)

Tongues and Prophecy

1 Let love be your highest goal! But you should also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives—especially the ability to prophesy.

2 For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.

3 But one who prophesies strengthens others, encourages them, and comforts them.

4 A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

5 I wish you could all speak in tongues, but even more I wish you could all prophesy. For prophecy is greater than speaking in tongues, unless someone interprets what you are saying so that the whole church will be strengthened.

6 Dear brothers and sisters, if I should come to you speaking in an unknown language, how would that help you? But if I bring you a revelation or some special knowledge or prophecy or teaching, that will be helpful.

7 Even lifeless instruments like the flute or the harp must play the notes clearly, or no one will recognize the melody.

8 And if the bugler doesn’t sound a clear call, how will the soldiers know they are being called to battle?

VERSES 6-8 IS AN ILLUSTRATION, MINE ADDED

9 It’s the same for you. If you speak to people in words they don’t understand, how will they know what you are saying? You might as well be talking into empty space.

10 There are many different languages in the world, and every language has meaning.

11 But if I don’t understand a language, I will be a foreigner to someone who speaks it, and the one who speaks it will be a foreigner to me.

VERSES 10-11 BUTTRESS THE ILLUSTRATION OF VERSES 6-8 AND STATEMENT OF VERSE 9, TO CONTINUE IN VERSES 12. MINE ADDED

12 And the same is true for you. Since you are so eager to have the special abilities the Spirit gives, seek those that will strengthen the whole church.

13 So anyone who speaks in tongues should pray also for the ability to interpret what has been said.

14 For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don’t understand what I am saying.

15 Well then, what shall I do? I will pray in the spirit, and I will also pray in words I understand. I will sing in the spirit, and I will also sing in words I understand.

16 For if you praise God only in the spirit (means praising God in tongues, from verse 14 & 15, mine added), how can those who don’t understand you praise God along with you? How can they join you in giving thanks when they don’t understand what you are saying?

17 You will be giving thanks very well, but it won’t strengthen the people who hear you.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than any of you.

19 But in a church meeting I would rather speak five understandable words to help others than ten thousand words in an unknown language.

20 Dear brothers and sisters, don’t be childish in your understanding of these things. Be innocent as babies when it comes to evil, but be mature in understanding matters of this kind.

21 It is written in the Scriptures:

“I will speak to my own people through strange languages and through the lips of foreigners. But even then, they will not listen to me,” says the Lord.

22 So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers.

23 Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy.

24 But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin and judged by what you say.

25 As they listen, their secret thoughts will be exposed, and they will fall to their knees and worship God, declaring, “God is truly here among you.”

A Call to Orderly Worship

26 Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you.

27 No more than two or three should speak in tongues. They must speak one at a time, and someone must interpret what they say.

28 But if no one is present who can interpret (or if the one who speaks in tongues doesn't have the gift to interpret as per verse 13 above - mine added), they must be silent in your church meeting and speak in tongues to God privately.

29 Let two or three people prophesy, and let the others evaluate what is said.

30 But if someone is prophesying and another person receives a revelation from the Lord, the one who is speaking must stop.

31 In this way, all who prophesy will have a turn to speak, one after the other, so that everyone will learn and be encouraged.

32 Remember that people who prophesy are in control of their spirit and can take turns.

33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the meetings of God’s holy people.

34 Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.

35 If they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in church meetings.

36 Or do you think God’s word originated with you Corinthians? Are you the only ones to whom it was given?

37 If you claim to be a prophet or think you are spiritual, you should recognize that what I am saying is a command from the Lord himself.

38 But if you do not recognize this, you yourself will not be recognized.

39 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don’t forbid speaking in tongues.

40 But be sure that everything is done properly and in order.

1 Corinthians 14

Q E D, @Goshen360. That was very simple n self-explanatory. More grace sir.

Goshen360: Let him that does not speak in tongues condemn he that speaks. Let him that speak in tongue in public worship stop the speaking without interpretation and let him speak to God in private. Public speaking in tongues in our worship places is abuse of tongues gift, such are still in Corinthian church, move unto to Ephesians.

thanks for me, i love doing it early momo, put some cool christian song blaring to drown my voice while i enjoy my spirit communion wit God in tongues for an hour [hoping to move to more hours], with people i speak few english words knowing well that deep communion had already commenced in da morning. What demi and others have been saying is NO TONGUES [ignorantly referred to as gibberish] IN THE MODERN ERA and i say YES THERE IS TONGUE since the Spirit has not changed, and the perfect has not come, till then, in my privacy, i enjoy my communion with my Daddy, spirit to Spirit communion.

Bidam: It is not an ego trip, you are adding to God's word sir!

Adding to God's word? Maybe I didn't get you correctly but I didn't notice him adding anything to God's word.

anukulapo:

Adding to God's word? Maybe I didn't get you correctly but I didn't notice him adding anything to God's word.

Can you define what an ego trip is? Can you show us from scripture where tongue is an ego trip? If indeed it is, then Apostle Paul would be the greatest ego tripping Apostle in scripture because he spoke in tongues more than All the corinthian folks put together( 1 cor 14:18).

Bidam: Can you define what an ego trip is? Can you show us from scripture where tongue is an ego trip? If indeed it is, then Apostle Paul would be the greatest ego tripping Apostle in scripture because he spoke in tongues more than All the corinthian folks put together( 1 cor 14:18).

Adding to God's word would mean "adding to God's word". It is clear that it was is own view of what was happening in the corinth church between the tongue speaking christians and the non-tongue speak christians then.

I'm sure you understand except you need a point to nail him.

anukulapo:
Adding to God's word would mean "adding to God's word". It is clear that it was is own view of what was happening in the corinth church between the tongue speaking christians and the non-tongue speak christians then.

I'm sure you understand except you need a point to nail him.

does this verse sound as ego or essential

"I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:" (1 Corinthians 14:18).

"Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues." (1 Corinthians 14:39).

Thanks @goshen that was insightful, the thing is that most believers think public speaking on tongues is a way to showcase their level of spirituality, its always awkward when prayers are going on and someone just tells everybody to begin speaking in tongues or what's your view on that ?

hisblud: does this verse sound as ego or essential

You should ask him. That's his view and he has right to one.

anukulapo:

You should ask him. That's his view and he has right to one.

sure he does, but in one of your post you agreed with him on seeing tongues in the same light, hence my post. Btw, could you share that site that made you recant your belief in tongues for the modern times. Thanks

hisblud: sure he does, but in one of your post you agreed with him on seeing tongues in the same light, hence my post. Btw, could you share that site that made you recant your belief in tongues for the modern times. Thanks

My source site? Sola scriptura.
I believe in tongues and have always believed from the very beginning.
What I don't believe in is that "speaking in tongues is the EVIDENCE of receiving the holy spirit".
If you recall,I opened a thread bringing to mind the consequence the tongue-holyspirit relationship. When you read it up,you can comment.

www.nairaland.com/705595/dont-speak-tonguesyoure-way-hell

anukulapo:

My source site? Sola scriptura.
I believe in tongues and have always believed from the very beginning.
What I don't believe in is that "speaking in tongues is the EVIDENCE of receiving the holy spirit".
If you recall,I opened a thread bringing to mind the consequence the tongue-holyspirit relationship. When you read it up,you can comment.

www.nairaland.com/705595/dont-speak-tonguesyoure-way-hell

A little bible study for you:

1. Cornelius the gentile called together his relatives and close friends.Can you tell us how many were baptized?
2. Can you tell us How many spoke in tongues?

3. Can you tell us whether the six brothers and peter understood what they were saying when the Holy Spirit came on those who heard the message?

Can you tell us what peter meant by receiving the Holy Spirit just as they had?

Can you tell us why Simon the sorcerer who though believed and was baptized yet he wanted to bribe Peter to receive the Holy Spirit?

anukulapo:

My source site? Sola scriptura.
I believe in tongues and have always believed from the very beginning.
What I don't believe in is that "speaking in tongues is the EVIDENCE of receiving the holy spirit".
If you recall,I opened a thread bringing to mind the consequence the tongue-holyspirit relationship. When you read it up,you can comment.

www.nairaland.com/705595/dont-speak-tonguesyoure-way-hell

ok is this the site you are refering to? http://solascriptura.com/reading_topics.php

Or is it this solascriptura-tt.org/Seitas/Pentecostalismo/TonguesCharis

Bidam: A little bible study for you:

1. Cornelius the gentile called together his relatives and close friends.Can you tell us how many were baptized?
2. Can you tell us How many spoke in tongues?

3. Can you tell us whether the six brothers and peter understood what they were saying when the Holy Spirit came on those who heard the message?

Can you tell us what peter meant by receiving the Holy Spirit just as they had?

Can you tell us why Simon the sorcerer who though believed and was baptized yet he wanted to bribe Peter to receive the Holy Spirit?

Hum,if I can't answer all,I should attempt one at least.

"Can you tell us why Simon the sorcerer who though believed and was baptized yet he wanted to bribe Peter to receive the Holy Spirit?"

I guess it's because he wanted to speak in tongue.
I hope I'm correct.

hisblud: ok is this the site you are refering to? http://solascriptura.com/reading_topics.php

Or is it this solascriptura-tt.org/Seitas/Pentecostalismo/TonguesCharis

By sola scriptura I mean solely scripture (bible) as my source NOT any website (related to the name or other wise)

anukulapo:

Hum,if I can't answer all,I should attempt one at least.

"Can you tell us why Simon the sorcerer who though believed and was baptized yet he wanted to bribe Peter to receive the Holy Spirit?"

I guess it's because he wanted to speak in tongue.
I hope I'm correct.

I also guess you can ask your bible.SMH!

anukulapo:

By sola scriptura I mean solely scripture (bible) as my source NOT any website (related to the name or other wise)

ok i understand,

My source site? Sola scriptura.
I believe in tongues and have always believed from the very beginning.

you claim to believe in tongues yet no works to that effect, how do you believe without works?

hisblud: ok i understand, you claim to believe in tongues yet no works to that effect, how do you believe without works?

You got the "believe" part right and the "works" part right. The only limitation you have is that you didn't consider the KNOWLEDGE part(which actually forms the belief).
So,now that I believe that not all will speak in tongue(because I know so from the scripture),why then would I need to speak in tongues(as works) to fulfill your "knowledge" and "works" theory? Would I not be contradicting my belief?
I am sure you know my position on the issue. Otherwise,you have not been reading my post thoroughly. So,you should take your time to.

Bidam: I also guess you can ask your bible.SMH!

LOL but on a serious note Bidam,tell us why (I mean answer all your questions). In all humility,I want to know. I'll take my time to read your response. Thanks.

anukulapo:
LOL but on a serious note Bidam,tell us why (I mean answer all your questions). In all humility,I want to know. I'll take my time to read your response. Thanks.

Take time and study it..Sir.

You said tongues as a gift is not for everyone.That was what Peter thought until the Holy Ghost fell on the gentile nations.

Look at what Peter and the other six with him observed "For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God"(Acts 10:46).

Tongues was the evidence..Peter and the Jews with him knew these guys were filled with the Holy Spirit.Why? Peter answered his critics in Jerusalem by saying "Then i remembered what the Lord said John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us,who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to oppose God( Acts 11 :16-17).

All the Cornelius household,his relatives and close friends received the Holy Spirit. How do i know this? " Why Peter was Speaking these words. The Holy Spirit came on ALL who heard the message".( Acts 10:45). It made the circumcised believers with Peter to be shocked. Why were they shocked? They never thought the experience at Pentecost will replay itself here at their very eyes.

I Have got people filled my brother. THE EVIDENCE IS ALWAYS TONGUES.

ALL of them were FILLED with the HOLY SPIRIT and began to SPEAK in OTHER TONGUES as the SPIRIT enabled them( Acts 2 :4)

anukulapo:

You got the "believe" part right and the "works" part right. The only limitation you have is that you didn't consider the KNOWLEDGE part(which actually forms the belief).
So,now that I believe that not all will speak in tongue(because I know so from the scripture),why then would I need to speak in tongues(as works) to fulfill your "knowledge" and "works" theory? Would I not be contradicting my belief?
I am sure you know my position on the issue. Otherwise,you have not been reading my post thoroughly. So,you should take your time to.

in other words, mathematically

Believe + knowledge = works

Now the knowledge part, lets start wit mark 16.15-17, do you believe, are you baptized? Which signs SHALL follow you?

Bidam: Take time and study it..Sir.

You said tongues as a gift is not for everyone.That was what Peter thought until the Holy Ghost fell on the gentile nations.

Look at what Peter and the other six with him observed "For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God"(Acts 10:46).

Tongues was the evidence..Peter and the Jews with him knew these guys were filled with the Holy Spirit.Why? Peter answered his critics in Jerusalem by saying "Then i remembered what the Lord said John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us,who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to oppose God( Acts 11 :16-17).

All the Cornelius household,his relatives and close friends received the Holy Spirit. How do i know this? " Why Peter was Speaking these words. The Holy Spirit came on ALL who heard the message".( Acts 10:45). It made the circumcised believers with Peter to be shocked. Why were they shocked? They never thought the experience at Pentecost will replay itself here at their very eyes.

I Have got people filled my brother. THE EVIDENCE IS ALWAYS TONGUES.

ALL of them were FILLED with the HOLY SPIRIT and began to SPEAK in OTHER TONGUES as the SPIRIT enabled them( Acts 2 :4)

I thank God the spirit enabled them. That's good. You've convinced me.

anukulapo:

I thank God the spirit enabled them. That's good. You've convinced me.

God bless.