I will like to hear your view on this-my friend do say,u are a catholic,Tufiakwa una dey worship idol,mary and the likes•

ENVY, EVIL & IGNORANCE.

The same reasons they regarded our master as demonic, blasphemous.

They said tufiakwa to him to...and he warned us: if they persecute me, they'll persecute you too.

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cos that is wat dey do or how ll one define an act of bowing to images if not worshiping idols?

Why use aid in worship?

stexsy: cos that is wat dey do or how ll one define an act of bowing to images if not worshiping idols?

You mean Joshua worshipped images in Joshua 7: 6?

eyenCalabar: Why use aid in worship?

Why not? The Israelites used it.

Illuminatus: It has something to do with the fact that they take one of Ten Commandments literally. They view it that bowing and praying to worshipping Mary the Mother of Jesus is equivalent idol worship.

we dont worship mary, we ask her to pray for us. It is like asking ur pastor or ur mothe to pray for you


We Catholic dont worship anyone but God

@op

when you give a 'relative' worship or 'subordinate' worship to Mary, Saints and object, is it not idolatry? Have God given you the authority to give any form of worship to anybody except Him?

italo:

Why not? The Israelites used it.

True Christians worship with spirit and truth, not with any aid. I dont know whether you guys are still under the mosaic law. Any aid the jews used at that time was God's instruction. God provided it not humans. but now worship of God is not done that way.

people regard carholics as idol worshippers simply because that is what their pastors thought them to blive. they mostly try to convince the young ones so that they will join their mushroom churches and increase their number even when they fail to give good reasons

the worship idols of jesus , mary and other saints.

and then they kill Pagans and mock us for practicing idolatory.

JMAN05: @op

when you give a 'relative' worship or 'subordinate' worship to Mary, Saints and object, is it not idolatry? Have God given you the authority to give any form of worship to anybody except Him?

No one takes the place of God in Catholicism.

Idolatry is letting anyone or anything take God's place. E.g Mary, Saints, Parents, spouses, money, images, passions etc.

JMAN05:

True Christians worship with spirit and truth, not with any aid. I dont know whether you guys are still under the mosaic law. Any aid the jews used at that time was God's instruction. God provided it not humans. but now worship of God is not done that way.

Who are you to determine how worship of God should be done now? Are you God?

So Joshua didn't worship in truth and Spirit in Joshua 7:6?

God commanded the Jews to commit idolatry?

PAGAN 9JA:
the worship idols of jesus , mary and other saints.

and then they kill Pagans and mock us for practicing idolatory.

If we were pagans like you, you wouldn't be against us.

The reason you are against us is that light and darkness cannot mix.

woky: we dont worship mary, we ask her to pray for us. It is like asking ur pastor or ur mothe to pray for you


We Catholic dont worship anyone but God

Non catholic: You worship Mary.(accusation)
Catholic: No. We don't . (denial)

Worship must be a conscious and deliberate effort to mean anything. If Catholics truly worship Mary and yet are always in denial, I wonder what benefit will accrue to them.

Homebaked:

Non catholic: You worship Mary.(accusation)
Catholic: No. We don't . (denial)

Worship must be a conscious and deliberate effort to mean anything. If Catholics truly worship Mary and yet are always in denial, I wonder what benefit will accrue to them.

Finally, some sense.

Why would I deny one whom I worship?

If I worshipped Mary, wouldn't I be proud to admit it?

How can one man see another's heart to see whom they worship?

italo:

No one takes the place of God in Catholicism.

Idolatry is letting anyone or anything take God's place. E.g Mary, Saints, Parents, spouses, money, images, passions etc.

If you worship another person while worshipping God, is it not idolatry? do the scriptures support worshipping anything wether you call it subordinate worship or not?

italo:

If we were pagans like you, you wouldn't be against us.

The reason you are against us is that light and darkness cannot mix.

shut up.

Its not us against you, its you who are and forced us to be against you.


You baseless hyppocrites lie about us, mock us, murder our people and commit all sorts of satanic acts and then you dare to copy our religious practices!

I hate catholics.

italo:

Who are you to determine how worship of God should be done now? Are you God?

So Joshua didn't worship in truth and Spirit in Joshua 7:6?

God commanded the Jews to commit idolatry?

1. I am not God, but was I the one that wrote John 4:23?

2. we read:

John 4:23-24 KJV
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

From the above verse, was that form of worship before or after Joshua's time?

3. Not idolatry cos God provided it as an aid in the Mosaic law. Do you want to worship God that way? good. go back to the Mosaic law. Drop the new covenant.

my question for you is that why does the use of images by catholics(the first christian faction), not demystify what our forefathers were doing but rather makes catholism to look evil?

JMAN05:

If you worship another person while worshipping God, is it not idolatry? do the scriptures support worshipping anything wether you call it subordinate worship or not?

I see that you haven't checked all the ways the word "worship" is used in the dictionary.

If you make me post it, you'll see that you even worship your mother.

But when we say "worship," we generally mean worship due to God. We give that to no one else.

PAGAN 9JA:



shut up.

Its not us against you, its you who are and forced us to be against you.


You baseless hyppocrites lie about us, mock us, murder our people and commit all sorts of satanic acts and then you dare to copy our religious practices!

I hate catholics.

I am proud that you hate Catholics. That is a confirmation of my faith.

Light and dark cannot mix.

JMAN05:

1. I am not God, but was I the one that wrote John 4:23?

2. we read:

John 4:23-24 KJV
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

From the above verse, was that form of worship before or after Joshua's time?

It was after Joshua's time. Are you then saying that Joshua, Abraham, Moses and all the Prophets didnt worship God in truth and in spirit?

Besides where does the verse say those who worship in truth and in spirit do not or should not use images to bring their minds to things of God.

JMAN05:
3. Not idolatry cos God provided it as an aid in the Mosaic law. Do you want to worship God that way? good. go back to the Mosaic law. Drop the new covenant.

So prostrating before images and praying was okay before but became idolatry from Jesus time?

Where did God or Jesus tell you that he abolished the use of images?

italo:

I am proud that you hate Catholics. That is a confirmation of my faith.

Light and dark cannot mix.

true. you people are one evil dark lot.

History and the God bears testimony to that.

JMAN05: @op

when you give a 'relative' worship or 'subordinate' worship to Mary, Saints and object, is it not idolatry? Have God given you the authority to give any form of worship to anybody except Him?

when you give a 'relative' worship or 'sobordinate' worship to ur pastor(ur daddy) and his wife(ur mummy), is it not idolatry? Have God given you the authority to give any form of worship to anybody axcept Him?

italo:

I see that you haven't checked all the ways the word "worship" is used in the dictionary.

If you make me post it, you'll see that you even worship your mother.

But when we say "worship," we generally mean worship due to God. We give that to no one else.

oga, we are discussing the first meaning of worship. which I believe you know. I dont think you will be arguing with anybody if you had other meaning in mind.

Lets see how you guys define what you give to saints(xtian worship):

"When worship is addressed only indirectly to God, that
is, when its object is the veneration of martyrs, of
angels, or of saints, it is a subordinate worship
dependent on the first, and relative, in so far as it
honours the creatures of God for their peculiar relations
with Him; it is designated by theologians as the worship
of dulia , a term denoting servitude, and implying, when
used to signify our worship of distinguished servants of
God, that their service to Him is their title to our
veneration. "

From the definition.

Catholic serve/worship other persons who they consider as doing alot in God's service, but that they consider that worship as subordinate to God's. Am I right?

If am correct, do you have any scriptural back up to support this subordinate worship?

Catholics are just so tough to convince, they believe their mode of worship is impeccable which is not. I believe they're operating on a faulty doctrinal foundation. When Jesus taught the disciples how to pray, He never mentioned Mary or the prophets or the saints. no where under the new covenant are we asked to use aids or carve images or worship dead creatures. Given the example of Joshua, that was in the OT, the old covenant, you better drop it an embrace the new cause they are totally different. you cant pour new wine into an old wine skin and vice versa, the result you all know. Some say the rosary causes miracles to happen, I had a friend who said, "you don't know how many times the rosary has saved me", such heretical belief causes me to wonder. they also claim Mary helps deliver their messages to Jesus, deceit at its peak. and when pastors pray for us, they intercede which is fully backed by the Bible. And the images they make is just out of it, what then makes Christians different from idolatrous heathens?

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italo:
It was after Joshua's time. Are you then saying that Joshua, Abraham, Moses and all the Prophets didnt worship God in truth and in spirit?

Besides where does the verse say those who worship in truth and in spirit do not or should not use images to bring their minds to things of God.

Jesus was stating what will dominate the type of worship at that time. true, those in the past served God from the heart and there service was spirited and God's spirit was with them, but their worship was done thru an aid which lay at the temple in Jerusalem. If you do not worship there, you ve not started. the ark represented God's presence on earth. When the ark wasnt there of course you know how despirate the jews became to get it back.

Now the new covenant doesnt require an aid to worship God, as such not limited to a location, only your heart and the truth found in God's word as well as God's spirit are needed. our high priest and the figurative Most Holy is in heaven.

An ark or a location doesnt offer greater advantage in this type of worship. wether in ur house, on the road, in a building etc, you can offer a worship acceptable to God. No aid is needed. the apostles provide a good eg of this type of worship.

So prostrating before images and praying was okay before but became idolatry from Jesus time?

Where did God or Jesus tell you that he abolished the use of images?

Prostrating to those things were an aid to ask God for something. it offered a greater advantage cos it was like being in God's face. If God never gave any instruction to construct this thing as an aid, and you went headlong to construct it and bow to it as an aid to ask something from God, wether you call it upon God's name or not, God disapproves it. remember the Golden Calf?

Molding image is one thing, using it for worship is another. If you want to use the Mosaic law, good! use the aid, the ark. it offers greater advantage cos God sanctioned it. Even if you were in the Mosaic law, it will be wrong to mold another aid apart from the one God has provided. That would be idolatry. So for those under the law, use ark as an aid. none of the jews molded Moses as an aid when he died nor any of the faithful men in the past. nor do we see people asking them to pray for the living.

the apostles never asked intecession from the dead neither have i read they used an aid.

vickyO: Catholics are just so tough to convince, they believe their mode of worship is impeccable which is not. I believe they're operating on a faulty doctrinal foundation. When Jesus taught the disciples how to pray, He never mentioned Mary or the prophets or the saints. no where under the new covenant are we asked to use aids or carve images or worship dead creatures. Given the example of Joshua, that was in the OT, the old covenant, you better drop it an embrace the new cause they are totally different. you cant pour new wine into an old wine skin and vice versa, the result you all know. Some say the rosary causes miracles to happen, I had a friend who said, "you don't know how many times the rosary has saved me", such heretical belief causes me to wonder. they also claim Mary helps deliver their messages to Jesus, deceit at its peak. and when pastors pray for us, they intercede which is fully backed by the Bible. And the images they make is just out of it, what then makes Christians different from idolatrous heathens?

are u serios, so ur pastor can intercede but mary cannot because she is dead n ur pastor is alive right?
hope ur a xtian.
do u blive dat dos who are in heaven are not dead? i know u will ask if mary is in heaven n how do we know?
yes, mary is in heaven likewise d saints because the catholic church said so. if u want to discuss futher, open a thread for dat n my catholic brethren here will open ur eyes to the truth of the bible