0monnakoda:
The So called Sunnah are often lies the Quran is the only authority. Anyway can you quote the SUnnah on the Eclipse so we can examine whether the Prophet actually encouraged ALL MUSLIMS TO DO SO FOREVER. If the Prophet encouraged people to write with pens that does not mean they should not adopt computers.

So we must ask WHY did the Prophet do that..WHAT IS THE REASON . It is only when we know the reason we can determine whather this was something that was encouraged for ONE PARTICULAR YEAR or FOR EVER. Many things in the QURAN have a CONTEXT and if readers do not know the context they assume it is an eternal doctrine or injunction.This is wrong.

With regard to the Prophet being a perfect exemplar again WHAT DOES THIS MEAN EXACTLY ? That the prophet is not a man? the same Quran tells us man is not perfect. Anyway we must still THINK and not follow WORDS blindly


I also read in the same Quran

Sura 66.
O Prophet! Why bannest thou that which Allah hath made lawful for thee, seeking to please thy wives?

What is the context of this verse. Does this imply PERFECTION.
Even if it does, the prophet married more than ONE woman does he advise ALL Muslims to do the same.
At some point he married a girl who was a child. Are we to coclude that those who don't marry children are bad muslims or that they gave GONE ASTRAY as someone seems to be suggesting.?
The Prophet advised his followers to capture women/slaves etc as bounty as was the practice then are you suggesting a muslim is not a good muslim if he does not go out capturing women or slaves?

One Problem Christianity had in its early days was its adherents insisted on the LITERAL TRUTH of everything and this naturally led to conflict. Eventually it had to reform, a very painful process both for Christianity and Society.

Eventually Islam will have to do ths same and confront several inconsistencies in the Quran that are just no longer acceptable e.g ideas of women's inferiority,notions that "menstruation is a disease",intolerance of other religions, The idea that the earth and man are at the centre or the most important part of the Universe, The Quran claims the moon is a "light" we know that the moon is no more a light than the Earth is(The moon has no light), Violent punishments like stoning and amputations to name a few. Christianity and Islam can bury their heads i the sand and refuse to face scientific reality but mankind is moving on. Man and the earth re a relatively inconsequential part of an inconsequential part of the universe



My Point is if the prophet climbed a tree in his life time should we ask why he climbed a tree or then conclude there is religious benefit in climbing trees.
Some people it would seem reason along the lines" if he climbed an olive tree then we must not climb mango trees"

The hadith are filtered. What we follow in the practises of the prophet are from the sound hadith.

About where the prophet encouraged this prayer, check the post that started this thread and you'll see: '(After the prayer) he stood up, glorified and praised Allah as He deserved and then said, “The sun and the moon are two of the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of the death or the life (i.e. birth) of someone. When you see them make haste for the prayer.”

The prophet was not perfect for he was human and that is why he was always called out whenever he wanted to commit errors hence the need for Allah to reveal the verse you quoted.

Like I said before, Muslims improvise and grow with science as long as it doesn't go against our creed. A pen is halal but it can be used to draw pornographic pictures which is haram. Do we throw away the pen because of that? NO! Same goes for a computer. These materials are allowed for they do not do bad unless they are used in a bad way and their users will be responsible.

If the prophet climbed an olive tree then we must not climb a mango tree......this, my brother is not true.

Leyelyzo: @ OP, Jazakumullahu khairan, noted!

Masha'Allah.

AbdH:

The hadith are filtered. What we follow in the practises of the prophet are from the sound hadith.

About where the prophet encouraged this prayer, check the post that started this thread and you'll see: '(After the prayer) he stood up, glorified and praised Allah as He deserved and then said, “The sun and the moon are two of the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of the death or the life (i.e. birth) of someone. When you see them make haste for the prayer.”

The prophet was not perfect for he was human and that is why he was always called out whenever he wanted to commit errors hence the need for Allah to reveal the verse you quoted.

Like I said before, Muslims improvise and grow with science as long as it doesn't go against our creed. A pen is halal but it can be used to draw pornographic pictures which is haram. Do we throw away the pen because of that? NO! Same goes for a computer. These materials are allowed for they do not do bad unless they are used in a bad way and their users will be responsible.

If the prophet climbed an olive tree then we must not climb a mango tree......this, my brother is not true.

You have not said anything to show where the prophet suggested the practise should continue for ever. Contrast this with the practise of Killing Rams at Id el Adha
The context on that occasion was his son died and people superstitiously believed the eclipse was related to that so he guided them. That does not mean prayers should be offered EVERY time there is an Eclipse or Thunder or Earthquakeor Rainfall or other NATURAL PHENOMENA with simple explanations
The verse was not when he WANTED TO COMMIT Errors. I don't think you know the context of that verse. HE DID COMMIT AN ERROR and Allah corrected him with regard to Honey.
It is not everything the prophet did that must be copied. Much of what he did was based on CULTURE of ARABS and the AVAILABLE TECHNOLOGY at that time and not ISLAM. We cannot say his use of Camels or Horses or Sword Instead of Bikes or guns or bombs was in anyway religious

The other issue of Perfection is this: Did the prophet have a FAVOURITE WIFE nd what did he preach on this subject

ahmedoba22: why? must u talk? if u av notn good to say why dont u just overlook d topic.

WHo is the Judge of what is good? YOU? The reason for talking is to dispel ignorance and foolishness

0monnakoda:

You have not said anything to show where the prophet suggested the practise should continue for ever. Contrast this with the practise of Killing Rams at Id el Adha

Brother, there is nothing to contrast. The prophet's SAW words were unequivocal. These are what he said about what you should do when you see an eclipse: "When you see them (the eclipses) make haste for the prayer.” He obviously knew that there will occur more occurrences of such event and he enjoined them to pray whenever it happened.....the act is continuous.

The context on that occasion was his son died and people superstitiously believed the eclipse was related to that so he guided them. That does not mean prayers should be offered EVERY time there is an Eclipse or Thunder or Earthquakeor Rainfall or other NATURAL PHENOMENA with simple explanations

If he never wanted us to continue it in a traditional way, he wouldn't have made that statement that we should hasten to prayer whenever (which means any other time) an eclipse occurs.

It is not everything the prophet did that must be copied.

'In the Prophet is a perfect exemplar'. Even Allah says that in the holy Qur'an, now tell me why I should not copy him in everything again. Moreover, the Prophet would not do some things because he felt that people would deem them religious and would probably turn it to a habit. He was very careful and never led his followers astray through his actions. The rightly guided Caliphs, to whom paradise were promised copied him so there is nothing wrong in copying him. Who do I copy? Goodluck Jonathan?

Much of what he did was based on CULTURE of ARABS and the AVAILABLE TECHNOLOGY at that time and not ISLAM.

No sir, most of what he did were influenced by Islam and not the Arab culture. In fact, with the advent of Islam, the Arab culture had to take a back seat.
Arabs enslaved women, he liberated them;
Arabs enslaved men, he liberated them;
Arabs killed baby girls; he saved them;
Arabs drank to stupor; he made them sober;
Arabs were polytheist, he led them to Allah......etc.

We cannot say his use of Camels or Horses or Sword Instead of Bikes or guns or bombs was in anyway religious

Definitely, that is why Muslims want to make their own weapons and build their own nuclear bombs. Nobody has made it compulsory to fight with the same weapon as the prophet or ride the same animals with prophet. Even the prophet prophesied a change in the things men will ride in later times and he never discouraged us from riding them.

The other issue of Perfection is this: Did the prophet have a FAVOURITE WIFE and what did he preach on this subject

No doubt, he loved Khadijah. And you know what, none of his wives knew that until he was asked by the curious one.
Even Aisha was believed to be more loved than others by his wives but that was because they were women and it was a big deal for them to guess how much they were loved.
As a human being, you are prone to loving one thing more than the other but the key is to treat them equally so that it is not visible. So, all I can say is that he treated his wives equally just like he preached.

Too many words brings lies.
The prophet is not God.
The words of the Prophet are NOT the word of Gord.
According to Islam ONLY the Quran is the WORD of God.
Whether or NOT Hadiths are a TRUE representation of the words of the prophet are subject to arguments bitterness and bloodshed. So The claim that the Prophet said so and so is debatable.Even if not so .The prophet SAID at least one thing which was wrong. He was after all A MAN. I already gave the Sura above so I won't repeat it

My point regarding the EXEMPLAR issue is simple DO NOT MISREPRESENT IT.
I am saying the prophet lived over a thousand years ago and he lived within a certain technological context. For example he did not use Showers,Electriity etc those things which he did use have NO RELIGIOUS SIGNIFICANCE. They were just the technology of that time. So the fact that he wore Short trousers does not mean we should do so and if we do we must understand why.

The Prophet married a child Is that the EXAMPLE WE SHOULD ENCOURAGE TODAY
The prophet may have liberated some slaves but he actively encouraged his followers to keep slaves and to marry them even by force "THOSE WHOM YOUR RIGHT HAND POSSESS" i.e those taken by Force.
Many muslims elevate the Prophet to a deity who could do no wrong and this is misguided. He was NOT PERFECT
Read Sura Abasa 80.1
More Importantly

THE PROPHET NEVER CLAIMED TO BE PERFECT.

AbdH:

'In the Prophet is a perfect exemplar'. Even Allah says that in the holy Qur'an,

I beg you to show me where in the Quran Allah says this? It would appear that you are prepared to even LIE AGAINST ALLAH just to win an argument
Unfortunately many so called muslims know the Quran by Hearsay and Rumor and have NEVER READ IT themselves.What the Quran says is that he is a "good example" NOT "best example" and CERTAINLY not "perfect" example.

33.21 Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.

How any one can stretch this words to mean people should wear short trousers or whatever is a total mystery

0monnakoda:
I beg you to show me where in the Quran Allah says this? It would appear that you are prepared to even LIE AGAINST ALLAH just to win an argument
Unfortunately many so called muslims know the Quran by Hearsay and Rumor and have NEVER READ IT themselves.What the Quran says is that he is a "good example" NOT "best example" and CERTAINLY not "perfect" example.

33.21 Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.

How any one can stretch this words to mean people should wear short trousers or whatever is a total mystery

Alhamdulillahi that you have found the verse yourself after you disputed its existence. I see that you have issues with the word 'perfect' now. Well, scholars have used the words 'perfect', 'good', 'excellent' amongst others and I do not see why you should have a problem with that. Will it make any difference if I substitute the word perfect with excellent? The bottom line is that he is the best example of a human being to follow.

About wearing one's garment above the ankle, these are the proofs;

Al-Bukhaari reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whatever of the izaar (lower garment) below the ankles is in the Fire." (al-Bukhaari, no. 5787)


The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "There are three whom Allaah will not look at or praise on the Day of Judgement and theirs will be a painful punishment: the one who wears his garment below his ankles, the one who reminds others of his favours, and the one who sells his product by means of making false oaths" (reported by Muslim, no. 106)


Hudhayfah said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) took hold of the muscle of my calf (or his calf) and said, ‘This is where the izaar should stop; if you insist, it may be lower, but it should not reach the ankles.’" (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, who said this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth)

0monnakoda:
I beg you to show me where in the Quran Allah says this? It would appear that you are prepared to even LIE AGAINST ALLAH just to win an argument
Unfortunately many so called muslims know the Quran by Hearsay and Rumor and have NEVER READ IT themselves.What the Quran says is that he is a "good example" NOT "best example" and CERTAINLY not "perfect" example.

33.21 Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.

How any one can stretch this words to mean people should wear short trousers or whatever is a total mystery

Alhamdulillahi that you have found the verse yourself after you disputed its existence. I see that you have issues with the word 'perfect' now. Well, scholars have used the words 'perfect', 'good', 'excellent' amongst others and I do not see why you should have a problem with that. Will it make any difference if I substitute the word perfect with excellent? The bottom line is that he is the best example of a human being to follow.

About wearing one's garment above the ankle, these are the proofs;

Al-Bukhaari reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whatever of the izaar (lower garment) below the ankles is in the Fire." (al-Bukhaari, no. 5787)


The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "There are three whom Allaah will not look at or praise on the Day of Judgement and theirs will be a painful punishment: the one who wears his garment below his ankles, the one who reminds others of his favours, and the one who sells his product by means of making false oaths" (reported by Muslim, no. 106)


Hudhayfah said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) took hold of the muscle of my calf (or his calf) and said, ‘This is where the izaar should stop; if you insist, it may be lower, but it should not reach the ankles.’" (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, who said this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth)

AbdH:

Alhamdulillahi that you have found the verse yourself after you disputed its existence. I see that you have issues with the word 'perfect' now. Well, scholars have used the words 'perfect', 'good', 'excellent' amongst others and I do not see why you should have a problem with that. Will it make any difference if I substitute the word perfect with excellent? The bottom line is that he is the best example of a human being to follow.

About wearing one's garment above the ankle, these are the proofs;

Al-Bukhaari reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whatever of the izaar (lower garment) below the ankles is in the Fire." (al-Bukhaari, no. 5787)


The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "There are three whom Allaah will not look at or praise on the Day of Judgement and theirs will be a painful punishment: the one who wears his garment below his ankles, the one who reminds others of his favours, and the one who sells his product by means of making false oaths" (reported by Muslim, no. 106)


Hudhayfah said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) took hold of the muscle of my calf (or his calf) and said, ‘This is where the izaar should stop; if you insist, it may be lower, but it should not reach the ankles.’" (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, who said this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth)

You supplied a quote from the Quran above using " ". This turns out to be false instead of apologizing for that you continue to dissemble like a politician. Guess what? YOU ARE A LIAR because rather than admit your error you continue to spew rubbish. The Quran explicitly says it makes NO DISTINCTION between prophets i. Abraham,Moses, Jesus ,Muhammad etc. e.g 3.84, 2.285


It also tells us that Muhammad is a good example.


Abraham was a good example as was Moses and Jesus etc. They were ALL good examples.

Where then does perfection come from.
I have absolutely no respect for liars and have no respect for you.
You said ;
'In the Prophet is a perfect exemplar. Even Allah says that in the holy Qur'an"
Does Allah say this?'

YOU ARE A LIAR


Sura16.116 .................................Lo! those who invent a lie against Allah will not succeed.

If wearing short trousers was so important it would appear in the Quran. It does not and so all those tales are false.

My simple advice to you is you should talk less and read more.Study the Quran by yourself.

0monnakoda:
You supplied a quote from the Quran above using " ". This turns out to be false instead of apologizing for that you continue to dissemble like a politician. Guess what? YOU ARE A LIAR because rather than admit your error you continue to spew rubbish. The Quran explicitly says it makes NO DISTINCTION between prophets i. Abraham,Moses, Jesus ,Muhammad etc. e.g 3.84, 2.285


It also tells us that Muhammad is a good example.


Abraham was a good example as was Moses and Jesus etc. They were ALL good examples.

Where then does perfection come from.
I have absolutely no respect for liars and have no respect for you.
You said ;
'In the Prophet is a perfect exemplar. Even Allah says that in the holy Qur'an"
Does Allah say this?'

YOU ARE A LIAR


Sura16.116 .................................Lo! those who invent a lie against Allah will not succeed.

If wearing short trousers was so important it would appear in the Quran. It does not and so all those tales are false.

My simple advice to you is you should talk less and read more.Study the Quran by yourself.

*My quote is not false.

*There is no distinction among the prophets and that is why you don't read us insulting other prophets just to make Mohammad SAW look good. We don't have to follow the other prophets because they had their own Ummah who followed them but we are Mohammad's Ummah and we will follow him to the letter. Moreover, Allah says that he is a perfect example to be emulated Therefore, his examples are sufficient for us.

*If I should start to elaborate on the trousers issue, deols may delete my comment for derailing......she's being overly suspicious of comments nowadays and I don't know why. In a nutshell, Allah didn't have to mention it since He had ordered us to obey the prophet who in his jurisdiction, beseeched us to shorten our garments.

*I should read more than I talk? Brother, that is what I do. Someone who yearns to learn like me doesn't talk much lest he deprives himself of invaluable islamic knowledge.

PS: I'm yet to fathom why you got angry over this issue. I choose to follow Mohammad's teachings which you think is wrong. I showed you where we were instructed to do so in the Qur'an and you are yet to be satisfied. I am not here to earn your respect sir but to do my duty as a Muslim in spreading the words of Islam.
Thank you.

AbdH:

*My quote is not false.

*There is no distinction among the prophets and that is why you don't read us insulting other prophets just to make Mohammad SAW look good. We don't have to follow the other prophets because they had their own Ummah who followed them but we are Mohammad's Ummah and we will follow him to the letter. Moreover, Allah says that he is a perfect example to be emulated Therefore, his examples are sufficient for us.

*If I should start to elaborate on the trousers issue, deols may delete my comment for derailing......she's being overly suspicious of comments nowadays and I don't know why. In a nutshell, Allah didn't have to mention it since He had ordered us to obey the prophet who in his jurisdiction, beseeched us to shorten our garments.

*I should read more than I talk? Brother, that is what I do. Someone who yearns to learn like me doesn't talk much lest he deprives himself of invaluable islamic knowledge.

PS: I'm yet to fathom why you got angry over this issue. I choose to follow Mohammad's teachings which you think is wrong. I showed you where we were instructed to do so in the Qur'an and you are yet to be satisfied. I am not here to earn your respect sir but to do my duty as a Muslim in spreading the words of Islam.
Thank you.

You are a liar. You said

'In the Prophet is a perfect exemplar. Even Allah says that in the holy Qur'an"

This is a LIE. The Quran says no such thing.


Do your duty but don't tell lies in the process

The prophet did not tell you to shorten your garments. That is false and also foolishness if you do not know the reason why his garments were short. The kinds of "garments" Arabs wore in the time of the prophet and what people wear in other countries are completely different. The context is different and so people should refrain from propagating what they do not understand. on the basis that the prophet was a "perfect" example

^^^ My previous comment still answers you.

Ignorant remarks.There is no such thing as Mohammed's Ummah or any other person's Ummah. The Quran says it makes NO DISTINCTION between prophets. It says this several times. The message is not the Messenger's. The prophet did not command muslims to wear short trousers. That is false