ezeagu:

Yes.

In that case what occurs on those days (I.E market day, rest day, etc) and what is the literal translation of those days?

RandomAfricanAm: Fantastic post!



I disagree on this point, those modern clocks are still synced with some agreed upon(by Europeans) natural phenomena it's simply phenomena that can only be clearly detected with some instrument used as a middle man as opposed to your unfiltered/assisted sight, smell, touch, taste, or hearing. (I.E something like the atomic decay of some random atom ...which obviously can't be seen by the unaided eye)

That said I was referring specifically to methods of detecting direction prior to said methodologies were imparted by Europeans. For most things a literal translation gives you a clear window into what you need to know to understand worldview prior to Europeans such as...
East = Ila oorun = riseing sun



Again, fantastic post! I'm going to look over the info/image and give it the reply it deserves.
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You just killed two or three birds with one stone right there. My background is software engineering and I've been looking at divinary systems in Africa that uses systems larger then binary(I.E "multi-Item & placement" divination systems) where you have 4 or 5 different "items" that each hold a value and you divine based on the "place" they fall along with if/what they touch or not.

That said it's nice to come back to the fundamentals laid down in IFA and see other possible traditional uses. It also gives me more resolve concerning the idea of searching what was left for future generations in order to build a better Africa based on it.

Lastly, I've been looking over spiritual systems and their concepts to get an idea of how the people described and thought about the phenomena they witnessed in the world around them. Spiritual systems are nice sources because they tend to deal with more complex concepts as opposed to simple thing like how much does it weigh & how many do you have.
There's a big difference between...

1.How many cows/much land do you have?
and
2.How has those cows/ that land helped your family survive throughout the generations?

Your commentary on pastoralist & agriculturalist reminded me to look at other expressions of the navigation of the related phenomena other then spirituality. Or maybe I should say before looking into a societies spirituality I should take a detailed look at the life they lead. it's the life the people lead that dictates the type of phenomena that people are exposed to cause it's through that exposure arises a unique spiritual view of the world. That's the point at which you can understand how they related to everything. I might've been a bit ahead of myself.

Thank you Random.

I believe I can help you clarify some ideas.

When you consider the cardinal points in Yoruba, three of them have to do with celestial bodies and the fourth one is terrestial.

Look at these terms.

Irawo - star
Owuro - morning
Orun - sun
Arewa - north

I would expect that a nomad society like Fulani or Ijaw would have a far more developed system of navigation than any of the agrarian society, considering they move both in daytime and at sunset. How do they find their direction in unfamiliar territories after sunset?

There is a brightly lit set of stars when you look up the night sky, if you connect a line joining all the star dots in that cluster you will end with what looks like the fork of a bicycle frame. This is the popular big dipper. Across and on opposite end of it is another cluster, similarly shaped but turned upwards down, this is small dipper. Almost equi distant between the two is a lone shining star, all by itself. This is the North Star. This is what Yoruba call Arewa. Arewa is not visible to naked eye in daytime.

All humans from beginning of our creation till now and into everlasting have depended on the North Star for direction. This is what nomads use after sunset. If you know where North is you can never get lost in the wilderness.

Soil cultivators depend on daytime sky for guidance, pastoralists, hunters, fishermen, depend on night sky for guidance.


In Yoruba, owuro (morning) occurs before sunrise. Owuro itself is a star - aurora. Aurora is spotted between cock crow and when the first glimpse of the radiant sun appear on the horizon.

So in summary, the Yoruba knowledge of cardinal points is far broader than just the sun rising in east and setting in west, it covers navigation on land and sea long after the sun has gone home and right before it rises again.

There is another content but we will talk about those later to explain the difference between ro (ojo n' ro; owuro; orun n'ran). Owuro in particular will interest you because it is the 360th phase of the night stars.

Quit interesting, and so un(metaphisical). Keep it up bruv.

@Metaphysical

Sorry I've been away, I get spooked by the spambot from time to time and stop posting to avoid getting hit. In the process I sometimes lose threads I was contributing to.

I wanted to highlight the significance of your post further and why I feel it's very useful to me and my intellectual development.

Though before I start I just wanted to point out something in reference to the north star. That's what I was referring to In post #19 But I didn't want to relegate it solely to the north star(might have used another method unknown to me) so I made a generalization concerning the use of stars for navigation.

RandomAfricanAm: Yeah when you said North I should have asked if you knew the means by which north & south was determined.
Examples:
1. Perpendicular to east/west path of sun
2. Tree moss (moss avoids sun so it grows thickest on north or south face)

3. Termite mound face (same as tree moss its widest side faces north/south directions)

4. Star charts & constellations (stars appear in set places of the sky at night)
5. Etc...
6. Etc...
After a method is successfully carried out(saw tree moss) the direction that has been determined is delineated with the term Mgbago(or mgbada).
So now that we know the terms do you know the traditional method for determining north & south prior to Europeans coming in slapping there terminology & methods everywhere?

That said I felt your post was very important to me because it caused me to revisit a very important point in my intellectual development and expand on it using insight I gained since first visiting the idea some years ago.

At some point over the past 5 years or so I came across the "Green Saharan" cattle cults. They were important to me because it was one of the first records of spirituality in Africa and dates before Nile valley civilizations and by extension more recent notions of anthropomorphized ideas of "God"/spirits/angels/etc purported by Europeans.

My personal interpretations were that through basic observation of the utility of cattle(milk, blood, dung*?fuel & housing?*, bone tools, meat, etc) the Saharan dwellers developed a positive emotional relationship with and appreciation for the cattle. That appreciation manifesting in how they treat the cattle and the larger spiritual practices surrounding their shared life and times. The conclusion I gained from this interpretation being that spirituality has nothing to do with apparitions and ghost that materialize from the air touch you then turn into smoke or fantastic sky beings in the clouds.

[img]http://nd01.jxs.cz/437/589/e76c1375e8_50448702_o2.jpg[/img]


I then conceived of spirituality as the personal relationship a person has with observed/experienced phenomena(or as the Egyptians called it ntr/neter).

When I moved forward in time this view of spirituality allowed me to view spiritual systems in the Nile valley civilizations Kerma /Kemet(Ancient Egypt)/Kush from a purely African context. So instead of the Egyptian Neteru being "Gods" in the European sense (I.E apparitions), I was able to view them as observable of phenomena that those Africans defined their relationship with (I.E. Hapi has nothing to do with a water apparition materializing out of thin air flooding the Nile then turning to smoke. It's an observation of the natural flooding of the Nile, it's related utility, and the peoples relationship with it). Taking this view I expanded the same approach to other African societies and their spiritual systems where for example I don't view Ogun through European lens as an apparition. I view Ogun through an African lens as the observation of the utility that iron serves in society(cultivation tools, war weapons, etc) and the acknowledged spiritual/emotional relationship society has with that utility. Spirituality serves to note the level of importance of various ntr(phenomena) in a society and serves as a means to direct your spiritual/emotional/intellectual energies concerning it. Another plus is that this approach allows me to use terms from different African societies interchangeably by noting that it is the shared/common African observation of ntr(phenomena) that I'm referring to not some specific anthropomorphized African "God".
Example: Shared/Common observation (Kemet: ka, Mande: Nyama, Igbo: chi, Yoruba: ase, English: Force)

It also allowed me to do something outside of what most practice. Which is to turn around and view European practices through an African lens and vocabulary instead of always being on the intellectual defensive(Viewing Africa through a European lens then being defensive of what's seen). The best insight I've received from this practice was to look at the incomplete(Note: I didn't say incorrect) means by which Europeans reason. Most notably the incomplete nature of platonic objective reasoning I.E "I'm just being objective here".

In a bid to dictate who should rule over the (people/Republic) Plato put forth the notion that truth(African context: Ma'at*natural order of ntr*) is known through the knower (African context: ntr observer) detaching themselves from the known(African context: ntr observed) leaving only rational objective based thought with no emotional/spiritual attachment. Those who can do this should rule over those who don't/can't. The problem/incompleteness with this is that there is no such thing as "The truth" there's only "A Truth". You choose between multiple "Truths" by the implications connected to the implementation of each truth. The choice between which implementation to employ is dictated by the spiritual/emotional connection the knower(African context: ntr observer) has with the known(African context: ntr observed) object(whether the knower acknowledges that connection or not) or it's recursively dictated by another truth which loops until it terminates at a spiritual/emotion position.

I put forth that Plato didn't catch this incompleteness because he was preoccupied with justifying a rationale to rule over his imagined republic. This rationale justification is the main issue that I have with European. They hide their (hatred, fear, greed, ambitions, etc) behind the notion of the rationale/justification (I.E objective reasoning) ...as we all know a person can justify anything.

Note 2 da kiddies: Rational thought, logic, reason, etc. does give you an observable "A Truth" and what's "not Truth" but it does not give you what is good, bad, right, wrong, or "The truth". It simply gives you an intellectual position that has been arrived at by way of processing consecutive intellectual positions; along with the means to recall those consecutive positions and processes used in arriving at that current/final intellectual position. A perfect example of this glaring incompleteness is the ongoing global warming "debate". Given that you can rationalize anything and that Europeans hide their emotional positions behind this "platonic rationale" both sides keep sparing with "Dueling Truths" while the world waits in the wind.

What you reminded me to do: @Metaphysical
After I had the insight concerning the cattle cults I immediately went forward in time to apply that insight to Pharaonic spiritual systems and the wider African spiritual world. You reminded me that there were other ntr(phenomena) that those early pastoralist and agriculturalist observed. By extension they also had some kind of spiritual relationship with those observed ntr(phenomena) which means I would do well to go back and check out how those people observed their surroundings(which is what you alluded to and reminded me of).

Thanks!

Nice metaphysics.
But I think you Owuro is best translated as Dawn rather than 'morning'

macof: Nice metaphysics.
But I think you Owuro is best translated as Dawn rather than 'morning'

On this 'Owuro' subject, a LUO (Kenyan) friend once mentioned that 'Owuor' is a name given to a child born between midnight and dawn. Could this be a coincidence? Sorry for the derailment...

RandomAfricanAm:
In that case what occurs on those days (I.E market day, rest day, etc) and what is the literal translation of those days?

The days are named after spirits. I don't know the meaning of those days (although I can guess, but I don't want to). The significance of the days vary depending on the community, although a village usually chooses one of those days as its market day. In Igbo culture, people are not buried on a specific day, as well as other rites.

Happy New Year Everyone, whether you are contributing or reading.

Thank you guys for responses. Let me touch on macof's quick.

My brother, the 24 hr clock is segmented into periods. Between sundown and sunrise alone we have 7 segmentations. These are approximates.

Ale - 8pm
Ash'ale - 10pm
Oru - 12mdnight
Oganjo -2am
Owuro - 4am
Kutu - 5am
Idaji - 6am

Morning is too generic a term and I should not have used that to mean Owuro. Thanks for pointing out.


Tony, based on some of the cultural similarities I believe there is a connection between Luwo/Luo and Yoruba. It would be nice to understand their myths and folk tales for comparison.

Random, I would like to go deep into what you wrote, I see your quest touching on the fundamental question of humanity itself and its essence to the environment, but unfortunately the topic on this thread will not do justice to the discussion.

On the cow/cattle cult, let me touch briefly on something even more peculiar; mother.

In the process of sustaining life of the baby a mother sacrifices her own life. That is a cult! A very beautiful and adorable maiden gives her blood every month, in the course of a pregnancy she goes from a slim and light to heavy and wide. At a risk to her own life she carries everyday for nine months a new life that stretches every part of her physical endurance. From her body milk flows to nurture and build the child strong against biological defects and immune attacks. The changes done to her body is irreversible after birth, she must carry the transformation the rest of her life. As her baby grows and blossoms her own body breaks down and dies; the once supple and full b.re.ast loose their elasticity, the tight and smooth radiant skin loose their shine and are replaced by unsightly cellulite. Then when her bloodflow stops completely she faces a new danger, that of depression and cancerous tumors.

The cow is an extension of the mother who in turn is an extension of the earth. There is a reason we bury the baby's placenta in the earth. Before learning about the cow, a child is taught his/her sorrounding first by the essence of motherhood. In Yorubaland of old insane persons are sent to pastures to go and tend to cows. Through this interaction and care they are slowly healed back into reality and sanity.

Gbam, the olden day Yoruba are cattle rearing and pastoral culture. More or less like cattle Fulani. They know of cattle healing power like oriental indians. Psalm 24.

Agbo malu, cattle fold; Agbo eran, ram fold; Agbo Ile, family or kinsfolks. Oju Agbo, event or feasting place. Agbo, ram, seekers, olden folks. <>The 'pastoral chord' that binds. Thanks metaphisical.

ladionline: Agbo malu, cattle fold; Agbo eran, ram fold; Agbo Ile, family or kinsfolks. Oju Agbo, event or feasting place. Agbo, ram, seekers, olden folks. <>The 'pastoral chord' that binds. Thanks metaphisical.

My pleasure Sir, and thank you for your contributions.

The four cardinal points in Igbo

NORTH Mpaghara Ugwu Nigeria
SOUTH Mpaghara Ndida anyanwu Nigeria
EAST Mpaghara Owuwa anyanwu Nigeria
WEST Mpaghara Odida Nigeria