As many Nigerians
welcome the convocation
of the National
Conference, a former
member of the defunct
Constituent Assembly
and a university don,
Prof. Aja Okorie, has said
those calling for break
up may be doing so
because of selfishness
and do not know where it
would lead the country.
He spoke on various issues
and cautioned that there
would be mass movement
if the president tried to
sweep the outcome of the
conference under the
carpet. Excerpts:
What is your opinion on
the national dialogue
approved by President
Goodluck Jonathan?
In my opinion, it should
not be Sovereign National
Conference because the
problem with it is that
when you call it sovereign,
Nigeria can break up; some
components can decide to
break away. I do not think
that Nigeria should break
up, rather I think that
Nigeria should dialogue to
discuss all the political
issues but not including
break up of Nigeria. The
United States is very
important because of its
size, China is important
because of its size and
diversity; even Russia and
Germany.
You said Nigeria should
not break-up, what then
should be the solution to
Nigeria’s problem?
People are calling for
break-up because of bad
governance, dishonesty
and corruption of
leadership at all levels. I
don’t subscribe to break-
up because if you try to
break up, the Eastern
Region won’t even be
together; you will find out
that the South-South would
want to break up; maybe
West will try to keep
together. You will find out
that the Middle Belt would
want to break up, North
East and North West would
want to break-up and we
would make a mess of
Nigeria. None of these
components will wield the
influence of things that
attributed to Nigeria as
giant of Africa.
Those who are calling for
break up, if there are any,
I think they are calling for
break up because of
selfishness; they don’t
know where the break up
will reach because it can
now split us into 10 and
what are we going to gain.
The diversity which is our
strength can be used to
strengthen Nigeria. I earlier
told you that the solution
is to stop corruption and
reduce to minimum if not
to zero. All corrupt leaders
present and past should be
brought to book because if
we end corruption, people
will stop agitation. And
then if we bring in equity
and justice and if the
institutions are working,
Nigeria will be growing.
When you get to the
judiciary, you don’t get
justice if you haven’t stolen
money to give to lawyers.
So, why people are calling
for break up like I said is
because of bad governance
arising from the corrupt
institutions that are not
working. What we need to
minimize corruption is
good leadership and
federal character; we need
equity, we need merit to
put the right people in the
right places; that is the
solution and these issues
are what we need to
discuss.
We have universities that
can’t produce good
graduates to take care of
the people; you find us
going to China to go and
learn how to plant rice,
how to make machine for
parboiling rice. We have to
go to Arab countries to get
Arab contractors to build
our roads. It is a shame
we have so many
engineers and we can’t
build our roads and the
people who try to build
our roads would want to
get 250 percent gain and
people who give them the
contract take more than
100 percent up front.
These are things we should
look at. How do you make
our judicial system work,
how do you make our
educational system work,
how do you make the
health system people look
at the capital flight in terms
of medical tourism. Now,
we are having the first
open heart surgery and not
even done by the Nigerian
doctors in Ibadan and we
claim to be the giant of
Africa. You find our
students going to Ghana
for university education.
When we were in the
universities in 70s,
Ghanaians were coming to
Nigerian universities. These
are issues now government
says it doesn’t have N500
billion to give to all federal
and state universities for
upgrade of equipment of
hostels but government
has money to waste for
pilgrimage and for hajj.
Government has money for
one minister to buy one or
two cars for up to N250
million and this is the sort
of country we are in and
nobody is being fired. So,
corruption like Carrington
said is the bane of Nigeria;
it is not an issue of
breaking up, it is the issue
of tackling corruption and
tackling corruption cannot
come from the grassroots.
It has to come from the
presidency, from
governors, ministers to
commissioners and local
government chairmen and
if the presidency does his
work with his executives,
the governors and
governors do it with their
commissioners and the
local government
chairmen, Nigerians won’t
be asking for a break up.
So, it is corruption, building
institutions and getting our
educational and health
system work.
Don’t you think that this
is another jamboree
where the decisions
could be swept under the
carpet?
Well people call it
diversionary tactics of the
President but what I will
say is that Nigerians should
not allow this to go like
others. Nigerians should
have a silent revolution;
there should be mass
movement if the President
tries to sweep it under the
carpet and I don’t think it
should be subjected to
National Assembly because
National Assembly is one
of the institutions that is
not working. This is
because when the National
Assembly is there, they
went around and said they
want constitution review
and people gave their
opinion. Even at the state
level, there was a lot of
manipulation and of
course, 90 percent of
people at the National
Assembly were not elected;
they were selected. So,
some of us don’t have
confidence in National
Assembly to do anything
and the process of
selecting those that would
go for this National
Dialogue or conference
should not be influenced
by government and the
decisions should be
implemented by the
presidency the way
majority have agreed upon
for the survival of Nigeria.
When it goes to the Senate,
there will be
manipulations; they will
take voice vote instead of
using electronic vote.
Nigerians should stand up
like they stood up about
the oil subsidy; that is my
position because if
Nigerians say no and come
out en-masse and insist
that the outcome of the
national dialogue should be
implemented, it should be
implemented. Like I said
before, the issue of break
up, the issue of
sovereignty of Nigeria
should be no go area. It
will not help us, China is
very big America is very big
Germany is very big by
European standard and
that is what we need in
Nigeria.
How would the members
be selected?
They should be genuinely
elected not like the PDP
style. From the grassroots
without what happens in
normal political elections
because INEC is a problem.
If we cannot select those
people without government
interference, there is no
need for National dialogue.
So, that selection process
is very important. People
should be selected by their
communities,
constituencies without
undue influence from any
ruling party or opposition
in the country. People
should be allowed and we
should be careful with
people we select and the
committee should draw out
clear criteria for this
selection process because
it I important it is what we
put in there we get out. If
it is another political
jamboree, then Nigeria
should not waste its money
and in fact, it could have
been better if this National
conference has come after
2015 with the new
Assembly to be elected.
What do you suggest
should be the Igbo
agenda?
Well, it depends upon how
the thing is set up. I think
the major contribution I
will be making is complete
eradication of corruption
making sure that the
institutions are working
and the judiciary making
sure that the Armed forces
are not influenced by
politics. They are not
corrupt because when
these two things are
working, legal and security
agencies and when
corruption is minimized,
the issue of being an Ibo
man or not being an Ibo
man will not arise. When
you look at United States,
when you move from one
state to another, after six
months, you can contest
election. I will want a
situation where census is
done properly, when the
population commission
includes ethnicity into the
data they collate and also
religion. This is because we
ought to know, we need to
know how many Muslims,
how many Christians and
how many other
denominations we have in
Nigeria and we ought to
know how many Ibo
people who are living in
Kano and in Lagos. We
need the true census, as a
basis for planning that will
show us all the details.
Why should we have a
census when we don’t
know how many Ibo
people that live in Lagos
and Kano, why should we
have a census when we
don’t know how many
Muslims or Hausa are
living in Ebonyi state? I like
a situation where a person
after living in a state or
even a local government
for five years should be
able to contest election. I
am talking about the issue
of indigene or what makes
one to be qualified to
enjoy the facilities there.
Now, they count you to say
that the population of Kano
or Lagos is like this and
then when the amenities
come, you are excluded,
you are not allowed to
contest, you are not
allowed to get land and yet
you are supposed to be
among the people making
up the number.

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