since you believe this why are you still a Muslim? After all its the Arabs that enforced this on Africans

Im not a Muslim. Im a spiritual believer in the faith of Abraham and I also believe in the philosophical teachings and practice of my African root by way of IFA.

I pray as a Muslim, I pray as a Christian, I pray as a Jew and I conduct myself in the wisdom of the elders and in the doctrines of the Odus.

These beliefs include the need to be disciplined in "Knowledge"; to be awakened in "Enlightenement"; to be astute in "Logic"; to be moderate in "Behavior", to be beautiful in "Aesthetics"; to be open to "Romance"; to be shrewd in "Communication" and to recognize and accept my "Weaknesses".

I separate religion from spirituality. This is why I self search and sel teach. . .rather than depend on the teachings of Arabs or Europeans as mediaries to God. Sweetie, you want to start me preaching tonight. . . Have you ever read the Quran?

this story of Oduduwa descending from the sky preceeded by a chicken which prepared the way for him-

on closer analysis, is this myth a symbol for something else?

I dont really buy the idea that Oduduwa miraculously appeared out of nowhere and fantastically became the overall king just like that.

I think the chicken stands for someone or some people who were already in Ife or wherever, before him, and who were making things conducive in readiness for his appearance.

And why do some tribes have klgends of people descending from the sky when there were no airplanes? The Ogisos of Benin, for example, were called sky kings. Yorubas say Oduduwa or Obatala appeared from the sky.

What does sky mean? Huh

thirdly, what's in these medicine pots that people carried on their heads in the olden days when emigrating from their towns, and why were they told to settle wherever it broke?

The Ogiso, or Ogie-Iso, were sky kings. According to the Bini account, Oduduwa is the son of Ogiso Owodo, thus it makes sense for Oduduwa to tell those he met at Ile-Ife that he "descended (or fell or came) from the sky".

On the chickens, I think you are right that it stands for someone preparing grounds for Oduduwa. In fact, the Bini account identifies a certain Iha (Ifa) priest, or babalawo, who moved from Edo land to Ekiti and eventually to Ife. According to their account, he played a significant role which led to the acceptance of Oduduwa's (by the Yoruba aborigines) and his installation as the the Ooni of Ile-Ife.

X-2-X:

The Ogiso, or Ogie-Iso, were sky kings. According to the Bini account, Oduduwa is the son of Ogiso Owodo, thus it makes sense for Oduduwa to tell those he met at Ile-Ife that he "descended (or fell or came) from the sky".

On the chickens, I think you are right that it stands for someone preparing grounds for Oduduwa. In fact, the Bini account identifies a certain Iha (Ifa) priest, or babalawo, who moved from Edo land to Ekiti and eventually to Ife. According to their account, he played a significant role which led to the acceptance of Oduduwa's (by the Yoruba aborigines) and his installation as the the Ooni of Ile-Ife.
 

thanks

Do you happen to know if "sky" means the same thing as "east" in traditional lingo.

The Bini account sounds good to the extent that it starts to breakdown at the point of saying:

1. How did they know he was in Ife
2. Ogiso Owodo never migrated to yorubaland
3. There is no one known as Lamurudu in this equation.
4. Lamurudu is supposed to be the father of Oduduwa.
5. No one still has shown how and when the Bini version of Oduduwa got to Ife.
6. All I am seeing here is that Bini version just performed an historical time jump . . . from a Bini man one minute and Oduduwa the next minute.


Finally, is there an historical record of the interaction of the Bini version of Oduduwa has he was going from Bini to Ile-Ife . . . how the heck did he even know Ile-Ife to begin with in the first place. . .

I still find the two Oduduwa accounts to be full of holes to be frank . . . the yoruba version is also full of holes . . .
They bini version sounds plausible but then breaks down at the time and name jump . . .

Who are the Ogiso's is there an earlier history about them . . . that can be used . . . and studied. . .

1. How did they know he was in Ife

this one is quite plausible- Nigerians are good at tracking themselves down. People from the region obviously saw him or heard he was in Ife and proceeded from there.

This kind of thing happens all the time.





@ the rest: I'm also curious.


And did the two kingdoms start at the same time? ie Ife and Bini.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: kay_pumpin on June 27, 2009, 01:20 AM
Oduduwa in Yoruba is translated as Odu- to- da- iwa meaning the oracle that created(or bequathed) good behaviour.




Odutodaiwa is different from Oduduwa.

Yoruba language is very specific.



Even though difficult to believe,Oduduwa might have been from Igbo area.The name Oduduwa or odua is still born till this day in Igboland.I have an old relative that bears the name.

Negro_Ntns:

No2,

To be honest with you I learnt most of these things in my travels around the country. I have many blessings but I will mention one that is directly related with what you are trying to achieve here. This is not a brag, I call God to witness on what you are about to read. I cannot recommend a book for you, I did not acquire my knowledge from books.

I am from Lagos and I am blessed to have people in my family who are direct custodians of the culture and heritage in Lagos. So at a very young age we were already indoctrinated into the history of Lagos, going back before, during and after colonialism. Later and at an older age the instruction and lessons continued with the history of Yoruba Nation and its seven states. We also learnt about the wars and who the opponents were. Tucked into lessons on the opponents we learnt about their states and political structure. I was very fascinated with the Fulani war. So when I had opportunity to go to North I jumped at it and buried myself deep in their city to learn all I can. I was in Kano. I went to school with direct royal blood of the Kano Emirate. . .both Bayero and his predecessor, Sanusi. It was a large family and I became very acquainted with them and through these chanels I learnt a lot about the Fulani and Hausa history and their political ideologies. Then I went to school in Zaria and met there with other affluent chanels from Katsina, Sokoto, Bornu. So my knowledge of history was a fortunate one that occurred through direct contact with the custodians of the respective cultures and exceptionally out of any formal academic classroom but it is by far more genuine than any textbook could ever teah me. I thank God for the blessings and the fortunes. I have gone to libraries and tried to read books on the history of Lagos and had to abort the attempt because a lot is left out that is very improtant to value and ideology of the people.

This oral tradition has left me even in my adulthood to be very suspicious of second hand and third hand information source. I can make tons of money writing historical accounts today but I will not. I have a plan. Iintend to instruct and teach my own children these things and let them write it and I will proof read it for accuracy. There are accounts of Lagos alone that could be turned into a big movie project and will find international audience because of the subject matter.

Anyway, sorry, I will not recommend books but I can continue to share what I can here in limited coverage. Remember, I am bequeathing the knowledge and so it is now considered a proprietary asset.

I think you and I might just be kindred spirits, I have a serious e-crush on you right now, lol. Oh, which cap fold are you talking about?

I wanna use dis time to contribute a little here. As a student of history, i hav been puzzled by dis oduduwa of a thing buh in my final year, a professor explained it all: FACTS: dia re two Oduduwas, d 1st one is associated wit d Origin of mankind and d creation of d world while d 2nd one is d arab guy dat came to settle on our land after conquerin d rulin dynasty and chose to adopt d highest title of our Yoruba history&dynasty which is Oduduwa d progenitor of Yoruba race &oda races. Most people easily confuse dis two accounts of d two oduduwas as one buh dey re quite different! Its however important to note dat most conquerin invaders are always of d habit of imbibin d title of d kingdom dey've jst overthrown e.g. Pharaohs of egypt, dis is done to evade d history and prevent uprisin in d later years as generations unborn will not note any difference in d rulin lineage to dia real lineage and d invasion history will be lost tru dis and dis is exactly wat d arab oduduwa did to erode our history & portray himself & his lineage as Yorubas which they're actually not! Meanwhile, dey dnt stop at dis alone, dey even go to d extent of erasin d people's history and destroy d evidence of dia invasion to finally assimilate demselves into d people dey invaded, d arab oduduwa did dis by stemmin down d history of d real Yoruba ruler he met at Ile-Ife who wz Agbonmiregun! Do you kno wat happened to him? Its simple, d fake oduduwa killed him & inheritted his throne and threw d history into d mud....
I tink dis is a bit helpful

Didn't really have tym 2read pgs 1&2.... Buh lemme add the Igala version of oduduwa origin... In Igala 'Ondu' means God or Almighty, then 'Duwa' means To bring... Hence the Igala believes Oduduwa is a corrupted form of Onduduwa... Meanin God brought him.

Y'all beta nt be suprised that we Igalas also have him in our origin legends too.

I believe Oduduwa existed but the falling from the sky or coming from the bini's theory I don't really believe; coming from the Egyptians (or Mecca) is possible but I doubt it. I do feel he came from the NOK though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nok_culture

I put as your consideration, two versions of the Yoruba mythology with respect to Oduduwa.


In the first interpretation found, the great god Olorun asked Orishala to come down from heaven and the first earth crease in Ile-Ife. Orishala was delayed and Oduduwa was his brother who turned this task. Fortunately, later sixteen other orisha came down from heaven to create human beings and live with him on Earth. Among them, Obatala, one of the most important gods to the Yoruba, Obatala is the creator of the human body, in which his father introduced Olorun soul. Tradition also states that the descendants of each of these deities (Orisha) who were responsible for spreading the culture and the main elements of the Yoruba religion for the rest of the Yoruba.

In the second version, Olorun, the god of the sky, threw a chain from heaven into the ancient waters. That chain Oduduwa descended his son. In Oduduwa brought with him a handful of earth, a special chicken fingers and a five seed and a chameleon. Oduduwa then threw a handful of earth on the original water and put the goose five fingers on the earth, the hen started to scratch the earth and spread and spread until it formed the first space of dry land. In the center of this new world, Oduduwa founded the magnificent kingdom of Ife and planted the seed that grew into a great and large tree with 16 branches, symbolizing the 16 sons and grandsons of Oduduwa.

An article that I think interesting is in English.
http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2312


I hope that my English translation allowing an understanding.


@Negro_Ntns:
Dear friend.
My mood is not to argue, but to provide some information which might help us all.
Originally, the cult Yemoja performing at the Ogun river (there was his temple), and that Orisa was not related to the sea or the ocean, but with the river, fresh water (sweet gater).
You asked about some authors. As already mentioned Dr. John Henrik Clarke, you can add Dr. Ivan Van Sertima, and Leonard Jeffries. To investigate the adaptation of African traditions in Brazil, see the works of Pierre "Fatumbi Verger, and in Cuba the various works of Nidia Cabrera.

Hope this helps.
My respects!

Ptolomeus,

There is no single book out there that has yet gone into the depths and unveiled the mystery of the narration on Oduduwa's beginnings. This is not to say that there no people that understand or know this mystery. . . but I believe there is good reason why it remains veiled.

I would like for you to read http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/ife/index.htm. Let's talk afterwards.

All the publications on Oduduwa talk in exoteric terms, to understand who Oduduwa was you need to dive underneath and study Yoruba esoteric.

From the epic film on oduduwa he was coming from a well developed kingdom when the ife people find him it is true that some people are on the land but they are primitive oduduwa was potrailed in that film as an arab very tall and handsome and knowledgeable for example it was he who taught them how to turn cotton plant into clothe by making a small wooden machine which he use in wooving the cotton together to made what yoruba people called aso-oke now in that film the ife people used leaf to cover there privates

it must be assume then that he was made king due to his knowledge and he was also a good warrior because he help them to conquer some invaders too all in all I think the yoruba believe he was an arab man.

Dudu_Negro: Ptolomeus,

There is no single book out there that has yet gone into the depths and unveiled the mystery of the narration on Oduduwa's beginnings. This is not to say that there no people that understand or know this mystery. . . but I believe there is good reason why it remains veiled.

I would like for you to read http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/ife/index.htm. Let's talk afterwards.

All the publications on Oduduwa talk in exoteric terms, to understand who Oduduwa was you need to dive underneath and study Yoruba esoteric.

Dear friend:
Your input is invaluable. It is a pearl that I thank you heartily.
I totally agree with you: we can not see this, no esoteric content! One thing is inseparable from the other!.
Everything is very symbolic and deep. I understand that esoteric and creational explain events with historical events. Am I correct?
I confess I had never seen the name "Aramfé" ... I guess it's a way of naming Oloorún. Am I correct?
I have read about a certain situation which occurred in Orisa (Orishanla? Obatalá?)) and palm wine, which required the intervention of Oduduwa ...
But possibly a different version.
Your sporte is extremely valuable! I am deeply grateful!
I would very much like to continue this dialogue with you.
I have much interest in maintaining the link with you ...
Cuante you with my unconditional friendship, for all that you deem appropriate.

Ptolomeus,

Thank you for your kind words my friend. I can share quite a bit but I must also be mindful of the need to respect the veil. As I said earlier, the veil is there for a good reason.

I also see where Anonymous commented that she finds it hard to reconcile the story of Oduduwa descending from a chain. So we should start then from the chain descent. Before that, I should clarify your question on who Aramfe is.

In the sacred texts, the being of Aramfe was elaborated in the topic on 'Beginning". Aramfe, it appeared was in a separate realm that predated and distinct from the Earth realm. If you follow the narrations you will see that man was in a spiritual state of being and enlightenement. . . a state of bliss, free from want and limitations, the paradiso of man's beginnings and one which after our exit we wished and yearned to return to. The garden of Eden, so to speak!

Is Aramfe same as Olorun or was Aramfe same person as Adam, our primordial father, or could this Aramfe be Abraham? Let's study the name Aramfe itself. The first person history attributed with this name was Abraham.

To my knowledge, there are three people that GOD endowed with perfection - 1. Adam; 2. Abraham; 3. Jesus.
I am thinking that Aramfe is a title for one who is divinely perfected. See the following from the Bible and compare with the Ooni's narration of the beginning of mankind. Genesis 17

King James Version (KJV)

17

1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

From the Odu Ifa oral, Aramfe was made in the image of GOD and was not mankind. His children when they were sent out of Eden and to Earth were reclassified and became mankind. So the story in sacred texts talking about beginning of mankind is reference to the before and after Eden.

We should now get away from this and talk about the descent from heaven.

chains typically are symbols for slavery, or capture.

so the chain legend probably means that.

It is said that Oduduwa and Orisha were both dispatched to settle a new realm for mankind and this new world order is to mirror the one in Heaven. Oduduwa was endowed to be King over the Nations of men and Orisha was endowed with bag of wisdom for arts and creations. At the edge of the divide a chain extended down into the murky water of the cosmos.

Oduduwa sent Obalufon ahead with a secret sand contained in a snail's shell. A five clawed bird was also sent down to spread the sand over the water and mould out of it the earth upon which Oduduwa will set foot and begin his rule.

When the earth was ready for his descent, Oduduwa started down the chain and when he touched foot on earth he appeared not only with his Crown but also with the bag of wisdom belonging to Orisha. This led to conflict between Oduduwa and Orisha.

So what is the mystery behind this? There are three but I will give only the one appropriate for this forum. May GOD give us understanding and enrich our knowledge, Ase!

Generally on the story of where Oduduwa came from, this descent to Ife on a chain from heaven
is the one most popular and branded. Culturally or ethnically, Oduduwa came from AfroAsia or what otherwise is also referred as the Nile valley or Arabian Peninsula.


Do you remember the story of Cain and Abel? Cain slew Abel and he did not know what to do with the body of his brother but a bird appeared to him with the carcass of its kind. The bird clawed up dirt and put the carcass into ground and covered it up with the dirt to hide its body. Cain followed suit and buried Abel. This is the final rite for the dead body and has remained with mankind ever since! Mankind has similar rite for a birth, it is the first step in a child's life. The cycle of birth and rebirth (death) is the story of life. The one and the other are inextricably coupled and form a completion of man. From earth we come, and unto it we shall return - a reconciliation of the spirit with the matter.

So here are the interpretations.

In the narrative, Oduduwa is a King. In Yoruba cosmology this represents the spiritual head or ori inu. Orisha is the creative artist, this represents the physical body and its cravings or ego.

The dispute or conflict between Oduduwa and Orisha is what we call inner conflict between the spirit and the ego. This inner turmoil is lifelong and the individual will is swayed back and forth between the two. When this conflict becomes devastating to the individual the person is diverted from life purpose, the endowment for noble existence is wasted and a person ends up a slave to their material cravings and ego.

What is this chain, what is the snail shell and what is the bird?

When a woman is pregnant, she carries a baby in her womb. The baby in turn nourished in the amniotic fluid and attached to the mother via the umbilical cord.

This umbilical cord is very important! It is the chain referred to in the descent story. In the Aramfe/Oduduwa story we saw that a close bond of subsistence existed and the endowments and favors passed from Aramfe to the son Oduduwa. In similar manner, the mother becomes the donor and builds a close bond with her baby. The only contact between the two is through the chain or umbilical cord. Their communication is inter-exchanged via this medium. The baby instinctively sends pulses or stimuli that triggers response in the mother. Similarly, the mother's pulses are transmitted and understood by her child.

When she gives birth, three items are delivered out of her.

1. the amniotic fluid (water break) which helps to wash the delivery canal, sanitizes it to protect the child and mother against infection and lubricates the opening with minerals.

This is the reference of the snail shell. If we study the snail we see that its shell is a hard substance like ceramic, but yet the snail meat itself is very soft and delicate and indeed fragile to traction. The shell produces lubricants which helps the snail to track on hard and rough surfaces. So not only does it protect the meat from predators and the harsh elements but also makes its exit out of the shell and movement on surfaces easy.

2. the baby comes out next still attached to the cord.

This is the descent chain from heaven. This is a birth, but is it not also a rebirth from a previous death in another realm? The cord or chain symbolically represent the double helix DNA for the child. Every genetic imprint for this child is micro stamped into the chain.

3. the placenta is delivered last.

The placenta is represented by the dirt scratching bird or chicken or rooster as the case maybe. It is our custom to bury the placenta soon after the baby has arrived and the umbilical cord is severed. The placenta contains the sacred dust that is spread to get the child a foothold in life.

In birth we bury the placenta, in death we bury the body! The one into the other, the other into the one; they form a couple or completion!

In life chicken are land tillers and very often employed by farmers to rejuvenate and enrich the soil for good crops. Likewise, the burying of the placenta is suggestive of spiritual supplication extolling the land to soften the toil and absolve the child of Cain's sin.

The sin of the father shall be visited upon the head of the son! Cain was cursed and GOD told him his toil on the land will be in vain and the land will not yield to him. The use of the chicken to represent the placenta is an attempt to reverse or soften the harsh condemnation, knowing that the chicken turns a dead land into a yielding and fruitful land.

I will stop here.

Dudu_Negro: Ptolomeus,

Thank you for your kind words my friend. I can share quite a bit but I must also be mindful of the need to respect the veil. As I said earlier, the veil is there for a good reason.

I also see where Anonymous commented that she finds it hard to reconcile the story of Oduduwa descending from a chain. So we should start then from the chain descent. Before that, I should clarify your question on who Aramfe is.

In the sacred texts, the being of Aramfe was elaborated in the topic on 'Beginning". Aramfe, it appeared was in a separate realm that predated and distinct from the Earth realm. If you follow the narrations you will see that man was in a spiritual state of being and enlightenement. . . a state of bliss, free from want and limitations, the paradiso of man's beginnings and one which after our exit we wished and yearned to return to. The garden of Eden, so to speak!

Is Aramfe same as Olorun or was Aramfe same person as Adam, our primordial father, or could this Aramfe be Abraham? Let's study the name Aramfe itself. The first person history attributed with this name was Abraham.

To my knowledge, there are three people that GOD endowed with perfection - 1. Adam; 2. Abraham; 3. Jesus.
I am thinking that Aramfe is a title for one who is divinely perfected. See the following from the Bible and compare with the Ooni's narration of the beginning of mankind. Genesis 17




From the Odu Ifa oral, Aramfe was made in the image of GOD and was not mankind. His children when they were sent out of Eden and to Earth were reclassified and became mankind. So the story in sacred texts talking about beginning of mankind is reference to the before and after Eden.

We should now get away from this and talk about the descent from heaven.

A couple very unique position ... Extremely Be interested me! I did not have registered the name Aramfé .... Thank you very much.
In my humble opinion, the lowering of Oduduwa by the chain, is symbolic, a parable. As far as I know (you authority to confirm by tine or not) the Yoruba language is very descriptive, and is very common to hear stories like that on Oirisa ... that tells something that happened, sno that seek to explain certain situations.
This thread is wonderful.
And I have found very few pesonas in this forum who know the traditions of their origins as you.
I really congratulate you!
A big hug dear friend

tpia@:
chains typically are symbols for slavery, or capture.

so the chain legend probably means that.

In history there have been many chains. Of origin Arab or european .. All strings are wrong if enslaved ... This is not the case. We are talking about another topic, that you may not know. My respects.

Dear friend Dudu_Negro.
His presentation is really warm hug. I always understood that Yoruba cosmology was very deep. It amazes me that some forum members, they ignore these traditions, and also consider them primitive and unintelligent. When that traditions are beautiful!.
I have read several interpretations of the origin of the universe (none as complete as yours). In one of those versions, is quoted as a chameleon, whose mission was to confirm that the land spread by the bird was really strong ... Do you think of that?

Another version relates the loss of the sack of Orisa, with palm wine ... Have you heard anything about this (P.F. Verger, "Orixas", p. 252)

The story goes that Oduduwa, have founded Ile Ife. On the other hand, would have established Orissa is still king of the Igbo.
The question is:
This "rivalry" between Oduduwa and Obatala (Orisalá), It may be representing the historical struggles between the two kingdoms?

I do not want to introduce myself in veiled land, nor I abuse your wisdom and kindness, but I would like to know your opinon.

You are a highly educated person!
It's a pleasure talking with you.
I send warm greetings!

@ Negro Ntns

Interesting posts.

a) If you want to find out who "Aramfe" is, try and find out about "Oramfe". The name of that particular deity (or deified person if he was originally a person) is usually spelled Oramfe and not Aramfe as the author in that link you posted spelled it. I know who/what he is, but not much about what deeper significance that deity has or had in the past.

b) I doubt that a chain can be a reference to helical DNA since the helical structure of DNA was unknown until the 1950s, but an umbilical cord from heaven (the mother's womb) to earth (the world) is a nice fit.

c) Snail mucus is produced by a gland in the snail's body and secreted from the fragile body itself, not the shell. I think snail shells reminded people somewhat of seashells which themselves evoked the idea of the world being flooded since seashell fossils from many thousands of years ago are found on mountains and other places inland from the beach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth#Origin_of_flood_myths

Since seashells "survived" an imagined world flood, they might have been seen as having the quality of overcoming floods or building/making dry land.

Another version relates the loss of the sack of Orisa, with palm wine ... Have you heard anything about this (P.F. Verger, "Orixas", p. 252)

The story goes that Oduduwa, have founded Ile Ife. On the other hand, would have established Orissa is still king of the Igbo.
The question is:
This "rivalry" between Oduduwa and Obatala (Orisalá), It may be representing the historical struggles between the two kingdoms?

Ptolomeus, thank you very much. The whole point of sharing with one another here is to increase in our understanding and growth. I have learnt from many people here what I didn't know and I have also shared a lot of what I know here. Again, thank you for your kind words.

To get at the root of Yoruba language it is important to understand Yoruba rituals. The Yoruba we speak today is modern and has lost the ancient tongue. In ancient times, communication in Yoruba language revolves around our cosmological beliefs and those beliefs were documented in art forms.

These stories of the beginning and descent are very old and dated far back into the beginning of Ife. Everyone of the story, in one version or another, is also documented in Semitic scriptures. The story of a wrongdoing in the garden of Eden, the expulsion, the divine decree, the covenant of the Kingdoms, the desecration of Earth by mankind, the flood, the drunkeness and the snatch of the sack, the noble beginnings of the races, . . . and so on and so forth. On the surface the stories are contradictory and confusing and creates division. The spirit of the story however contain one consistent and indivisible truth. In all of these too the nature of the elements is revealed to mankind. For example the fire element. It is said that Aramfe gave Ogun iron with which to soften and till the land and bring good things to mankind. In the battle between Oduduwa and Orisa, Ogun was in Oduduwa's camp. But Ogun shared his power with mankind and they learnt the secrets of the iron. But in the same narration we also learnt that Aramfe dispatched vulture to deliver fire to mankind so the goodness of it can come to their benefits. But what is fire? It is said that while man was created from earth, jinns were created from fire. Each of the element - Earth, Water, Fire, Air - exist in dual form. Duality, or two, is an essence of the cosmos itself.

When our SPIRIT is seized by fire it manifests in truth with the divine order - constructive outcomes. When our EGO is seized by fire it manifests in a different way - destructive outcomes. When you combine an EGO under the influence of fire with the power of Ogun (the secrets of iron), then you end up with cudgels and gadgets and armory for shedding blood.

Ptolomeus:

In history there have been many chains. Of origin Arab or european .. All strings are wrong if enslaved ... This is not the case. We are talking about another topic, that you may not know. My respects.

in all your studies, you didnt come across anything telling you african empires dealt in slaves?

PhysicsQED: @ Negro Ntns

Interesting posts.

a) If you want to find out who "Aramfe" is, try and find out about "Oramfe". The name of that particular deity (or deified person if he was originally a person) is usually spelled Oramfe and not Aramfe as the author in that link you posted spelled it. I know who/what he is, but not much about what deeper significance that deity has or had in the past.

b) I doubt that a chain can be a reference to helical DNA since the helical structure of DNA was unknown until the 1950s, but an umbilical cord from heaven (the mother's womb) to earth (the world) is a nice fit.

c) Snail mucus is produced by a gland in the snail's body and secreted from the fragile body itself, not the shell. I think snail shells reminded people somewhat of seashells which themselves evoked the idea of the world being flooded since seashell fossils from many thousands of years ago are found on mountains and other places inland from the beach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth#Origin_of_flood_myths

Since seashells "survived" an imagined world flood, they might have been seen as having the quality of overcoming floods or building/making dry land.

Physics, thanks!

(a) I have not heard of Oramfe and would love to hear and learn who he is.

Ara in Yoruba means something in connection with moisture. Aramfe would be correct when speaking of primordial beginnings of man in Eden. Please share info on Oramfe.

(b) There are plenty findings in modern science that had roots in arts of the ancients. The Cadeceus (Hermes) staff is used as a symbol of modern medicine but the serpent on it is the same animal referenced in the garden of Eden story in the Bible. If you look on the staff, you have a serpent wound like a rope around a staff. It can also symbolize the Oduduwa rope of the descent from Eden to Earth or Moses' miracle in front of Pharaoh when he threw his staff and it transformed into serpent.

Bottom line is, arts of the ancients gives birth to the discoveries in modern science, so we cannot rule out the Oduduwa chain from its symbolism with DNA helix.

(c) You are correct, the glands in the body produces this secretion and not the shell itself. There are different seashells and each have their distinct name and identity in Yoruba language. A tradition such as one taken from Odu Ifa will not confuse a snail shell with other sea shells and call it by a different name. If they said snail shell, thats exactly what is meant, snail shell!