I expected the worst when it came to faith-based organizations, but Obama did very well. However, in response to the straw worry about religious groups being forced to employ people who don't believe the same, Obama should have asked, "If the focus is helping people, why does it matter what a person believes?" Volunteers, of course, are not covered under any of this. Perhaps parachurch organizations could focus on getting Christians to give of their time and effort rather than receiving money

I liked his answer about taxes. I like that he really answered it, unlike McCain, and that he pointed out how those who make $250,000 are in the top 2% of America, that if we want things like roads we need to pay for them, and how it's immoral to leave our debts for our children to handle.
On to McCain, my friends.
My friends, did you notice how many times McCain said, "my friends," my friends? My friends, I didn't count, my friends, but my friends, does that verbal tic really work, my friends? And does the word "friends" now seem like some alien thing to you as well?

On what it means to be a Christian, McCain's answer was far too short. It should have been his longest answer of the night, and it highlights how he doesn't know what to say. His story about the Vietnamese guard showing compassion is touching, but you simply can't tell a story from 40 years ago and have it fully count toward one's spiritual status today. There will be some lingering - though probably ill-defined - discomfort over that.

I was surprised at the passive voice McCain used in referring to "the failure of his first marriage." His marriage didn't "fail", he dumped it because a younger, prettier, and perhaps most importantly, wealthier woman came along. I may not be a "born-again" Christian(am a christian), but I know someone who's just giving lip service for political gain when I see one -- and McCain is a mean-spirited, narcissistic man whose only use for religion is to gain him the presidency that he believes is his just payment owed to him.

back to barack,
i may be wrong about this, but i believe that deliberateness, and meanings of words actually matter to barack obama.i don't think he would use the word, "friends", in the casual and constant manner that mccain does.when mccain says, "my friends, " it feels salesmanesque and ingratiating, a sincerity that is a mile wide and an inch deep.trying to create an artificial sense of good will when you are trying to sell someone something. a technique you might learn in a sales seminar, perhaps this may seem like a small thing, but in a forum about faith and social~spiritual connections, the way someone consistently uses the word "friend" reveals a lot about authenticity.

www.tps360(dot)(dot)com

I think the forum was a set-up, Obama shouldnt have attended at all, it even made his rating worse amongs the conservative christians

TPS360:

I expected the worst when it came to faith-based organizations, but Obama did very well. However, in response to the straw worry about religious groups being forced to employ people who don't believe the same, Obama should have asked, "If the focus is helping people, why does it matter what a person believes?"

It matters because each group has a focus and to achieve that focus, they mostly need people who not only are able to produce/perform but people who believe In the MAIN IDEA. This same applies to any institution out there. That would not have been a very good question for him to pose.

TPS360:

Volunteers, of course, are not covered under any of this. Perhaps parachurch organizations could focus on getting Christians to give of their time and effort rather than receiving money

Christians already give so much of both. Churches already encourage their members to volunteer and give on a daily basis. Is there a shortage or something??

TPS360:

I liked his answer about taxes. I like that he really answered it, unlike McCain, and that he pointed out how those who make $250,000 are in the top 2% of America, that if we want things like roads we need to pay for them, and how it's immoral to leave our debts for our children to handle.

If the top 2% pay for these things, shouldn’t the bottom “98%” also do same? Don’t you think it is equally immoral to place the bulk of the burden on the few?

TPS360:

On to McCain, my friends.
My friends, did you notice how many times McCain said, "my friends," my friends? My friends, I didn't count, my friends, but my friends, does that verbal tic really work, my friends? And does the word "friends" now seem like some alien thing to you as well?
On what it means to be a Christian, McCain's answer was far too short. It should have been his longest answer of the night, and it highlights how he doesn't know what to say. His story about the Vietnamese guard showing compassion is touching, but you simply can't tell a story from 40 years ago and have it fully count toward one's spiritual status today. There will be some lingering - though probably ill-defined - discomfort over that.

WOW, so in the eyes of the Christian God, those who were saved 70 years ago by the deeds of some persons during their childhood, are not qualified?

TPS360:

I was surprised at the passive voice McCain used in referring to "the failure of his first marriage." His marriage didn't "fail", he dumped it because a younger, prettier, and perhaps most importantly, wealthier woman came along. I may not be a "born-again" Christian(am a christian), but I know someone who's just giving lip service for political gain when I see one -- and McCain is a mean-spirited, narcissistic man whose only use for religion is to gain him the presidency that he believes is his just payment owed to him.

WOW!!!

TPS360:

back to barack,
i may be wrong about this, but i believe that deliberateness, and meanings of words actually matter to barack obama.i don't think he would use the word, "friends", in the casual and constant manner that mccain does.when mccain says, "my friends, " it feels salesmanesque and ingratiating, a sincerity that is a mile wide and an inch deep.trying to create an artificial sense of good will when you are trying to sell someone something. a technique you might learn in a sales seminar, perhaps this may seem like a small thing, but in a forum about faith and social~spiritual connections, the way someone consistently uses the word "friend" reveals a lot about authenticity.

www.tps360(dot)(dot)com

Again… WOW!!!

Mcain was not supposed to know the questions before hand, but somehow he stayed in his car with aides who had accesses to blackberries and cell phones. Go figure how he answered very well even before Pastor Warren fiinished most of the questions. Also remember how much difficulty he had with answering the only new question Obama did not get?

naijaking1:

Mcain was not supposed to know the questions before hand, but somehow he stayed in his car with aides who had accesses to blackberries and cell phones. Go figure how he answered very well even before Pastor Warren fiinished most of the questions. Also remember how much difficulty he had with answering the only new question Obama did not get?

Any proof of the above claim in bold? Does answering questions well mean one had preknowledge of what was to be asked?

Kobojunkie:


Any proof of the above claim in bold? Does answering questions well mean one had preknowledge of what was to be asked?

Of course there is proof. Andre Mitchell of MSNBC said that a day after the conference; the result? Mccain managers wrote the NBC president complaining. Mitchell stood firm on her report. It's also all over the radio--depending on which one you listen to. I don't have a way of reproducing the TV and radio excerpts otherwise I would have pasted it here.

naijaking1:

Of course there is proof. Andre Mitchell of MSNBC said that a day after the conference; the result? Mccain managers wrote the NBC president complaining. Mitchell stood firm on her report. It's also all over the radio--depending on which one you listen to. I don't have a way of reproducing the TV and radio excerpts otherwise I would have pasted it here.

Andre Mitchell of MSNBC's Statement is the proof? Or did McCain's Managers or any of the Secret Service Men with him at that time reveal this information to Andre Mitchell? I don't understand what you mean to be the proof here. I listen to all News sources here, so feel free to be more specific. Was Andre Mitchell there when the questions where supposedly leaked? What proof does this reporter offer for this claim?

Kobojunkie:


It matters because each group has a focus and to achieve that focus, they mostly need people who not only are able to produce/perform but people who believe In the MAIN IDEA. This same applies to any institution out there. That would not have been a very good question for him to pose."

exactly,  and its illegal and unfair to use federal funds to promote  your believe all  in the name of helping others. I strongly believe that a person's religious believes shouldnt matter if the purpose of these religious organisation is to "help" and "help" only, thats the law,  ,  everybody(gays,atheist,muslims etc) all pay taxes , don't u think its unfair to use their money to promote your own believe in the name of "helping the needy", ?

kobojunkie is a republican,

TPS360:

exactly, and its illegal and unfair to use federal funds to promote your believe all in the name of helping others.

It is illegal and unfair to use federal funds to promote your belief all in the name of helping others? What do you mean by this? Churches are non-profit organizations with SPECIFIC objectives and IDEOLOGIES that they are sort of rules and regulations they abide by, regardless of the cause they pursue. Why can a church not choose to hire only Christians when it is part of the Churches legal contract with the government?

TPS360:

I strongly believe that a person's religious believes shouldnt matter if the purpose of these religious organisation is to "help" and "help" only, thats the law,

Well, the law allows organizations such as churches to discriminate when it comes to beliefs, when selecting people who they will allow or not allow work with them. So if you go to interview at a church and you are told that they are only looking for born again Christians who believe in Christ, do not think you can sue cause it is legal. LOL!!! Same with interviewing for a job with a gay club and being told that they need only people who are gay. It is quite legal regardless of your personal belief of what the law should say or not say!

TPS360:

everybody(gays,atheist,muslims etc) all pay taxes , don't u think its unfair to use their money to promote your own believe in the name of "helping the needy", ?

Well, When you say using their money to promote your own belief in the name of "Helping the needy", I want to assume you also understand that Churches do not necessarily recieve tax checks from the government to promote their businesses. Churches get tax write offs on money donated or collected from activities and business dealings. Two completely different things here. So, no, your government does not send a check each month/year to the churches to help them run their non-profits. Churches actually work to raise the money from donations made by people who support their cause and their belief and from side businesses and what not.

TPS360:

kobojunkie is a republican,

So?

kobojunkie is not a republican, he is a sore clinto supporter. one of the 18 million sore loosers
obama dumped their witch lordess the witch was not even vetted

. . . hillary and all her racist/psychotic/sore looser supporters . . .all of una . . make una go hang

it's better we have another 40yrs of republican white house than to have a witch VP waiting to kill and occupy . . no way, mitchell is too beautiful to be widowed now

@TS360,

I don't know where you get your info from, but it is a forgone conclusion that McCain did far better at the forum than Obama. this is what happens when Obama does not get his questions before hand. He has been protected and shielded from tough questioning by the obama-press, which is one of the reasosn why he declines a no-holds-barred town hall meeting with McCain.

I can't wait till the debates when they will go head-to-head. I just hope they will not be presented with their questions before hand. Obama has being aided before now with tele-prompters and there are reports of how he freezes when therre is a problem with the tele-prompters.

Tayo-D:

@TS360,

I don't know where you get your info from, but it is a forgone conclusion that McCain did far better at the forum than Obama. this is what happens when Obama does not get his questions before hand. He has been protected and shielded from tough questioning by the obama-press, which is one of the reasosn why he declines a no-holds-barred town hall meeting with McCain.

I can't wait till the debates when they will go head-to-head. I just hope they will not be presented with their questions before hand. Obama has being aided before now with tele-prompters and there are reports of how he freezes when therre is a problem with the tele-prompters.

I think they both did a good JOB!!

Kobojunkie:


Well, the law allows organizations such as churches to discriminate when it comes to beliefs, when selecting people who they will allow or not allow work with them. So if you go to interview at a church and you are told that they are only looking for born again Christians who believe in Christ, do not think you can sue cause it is legal.



So?

wow! the law must be an asx then,

I am not disputing the fact that religious organisation have every right to discriminate when it comes to employment but lets face reality , religious organisation dont just "help the needy" only , they try to preach their faith, thats the issue here . Using "help" as a cover up to preach while using federal funds aint right, just wondering what the reaction would' have been if islamic or buddist decided to "help" in louisana, hmmmm,

TPS360:

wow! the law must be an asx then,
I am not disputing the fact that religious organisation have every right to discriminate when it comes to employment but lets face reality , religious organisation don't just "help the needy" only , they try to preach their faith, thats the issue here . Using "help" as a cover up to preach while using federal funds aint right, just wondering what the reaction would' have been if islamic or buddist decided to "help" in louisana, hmmmm,

I am not sure what "PLANET" you come from but the point is HELP Is not limited to the body but also the soul? OK That is why they are called R-E-L-I-G-I-O-U-S !!! Ok? They provide food for both the body and the soul. Kapish They are not using Federal Funds. The funds are donations from ordinary citizens which they get tax write off for. I really do not understand what you are going on about here.

Religion should stay out of politics. I loathed the Saddleback forum. McCain was totally prepped on everything and it was a total power play by the Christian fundamentalists.

Darfur, leave Hillary alone, stop hating on my wife. She is not a bad persona, I don't know what she has done to earn such public rage.


On faith and government, Kobo, the government, under Bush created a faith-based programm that gives grant to Churches. The money come out of tax dollars. However, you are correct that the money does not oblige them to comply with the rules of EEO (Equal Employment Opportunity). EEO is designed for operatives under tax laws, in other words, for profit organizations. In addition, to support your argument, US donates tax dollars to Israel and that country does not have to employ Muslims or Christians as a contract on that benefit.

On the Saddleback interview, I think both of them did good. However, people are forgetting that on these matters Obama is a rookie. McCain is reputed to be one of the only few politicians today with the most appearances on NBCs Face The Nation; formerly hosted by Tim Russell who died recently. So McCain does not need a pre-knowledge or a prompter on these face to face interviews; the guy is seasoned and competent in that game. This is why his answers were very fluid, whereas Obama's was more cautioned.

To add another angle to that, just because Obama is very articulate and well spoken cannot be equated with ability for critical thinking and analysis on subjects outside his experience and intimacy. This is a new territory for him and unlike McCain, it is not yet second nature. There are many people who are exceedingly superb at critical thinking both in all areas whether or not they have familiarity of the subject but yet do not possess mastery of articulation to express ideas. So be mindful of Obama's strengths and his weakness and do not elevate him beyond what he is capable of delivering. See him as human, and not a messiah.

Kojo Aseda:

Religion should stay out of politics. I loathed the Saddleback forum. McCain was totally prepped on everything and it was a total power play by the Christian fundamentalists.

Religion will always be a part of politics. As long as people have beliefs, regardless of the kind, religion will always be a part of politics