vedaxcool: ^^^^

The joke really on you

please can you also tell us why you pray 20 rek'at of tarawih and not 8 rek'at.there is also a dispute on tarawih between those (Sunnis mainly) who want to conceal the bid'ah and make it look like upholding tahajjud by praying 8 rek'ats in congregation (note that tahajjud is prayed at home) and the Salafists among the Sunnis who insist on 20 rek'at (taught by Umar) upholding the outright bid'ah of tarawih.

which do you pray,20 or 8 rek'ats? and why?

PS: i dont care who prayed tarawih.bringing any hadith that Imam Ali (as) or even Jibril (as) prayed 'tarawih' will not negate the many proofs that expose 'tarawih' to be a bid'ah and that the Prophet (s) prohibited it and never ordered for it in the first place.regardless of who performs it,a bid'a is a bid'a and thus cannot be made a 'sunnah'.Imam Ali (as) as all the 12 Imams (as) of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) are to uphold the sunnah of the Prophet (s).if they do anything contrary,doesn't make their action right.therefore it is only reasonable to believe that your fabricated hadith abusing the name of Imam Ali (as) is a desperate attempt to justify a bid'a and oppose the Shia by inserting Imam Ali's (as) name.the 12 Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) among whom is Imam Ali (as) will never promote anything the Prophet (sa) prohibited.

vedaxcool: ONCE AGAIN LIES HAVE BEEN USED TO OBFUSCATE THE TRUTH:

From the above highlighted it is very clear that you were only interested in considering what supposedly supports your view, as what Umar r.a did was to unite small small congregation into a single large congregation. And clearly one can pray his Tarawih separately or in congregation.

Abu Yusuf said, "I asked Abu Haneefah about the taraaweeh and what Umar did and he replied, 'the taraaweeh is a stressed sunnah, and Umar did not do that from his own opinion, and neither was there in his action any innovation, and he did not enjoin it except that there was a foundation for it with him and authorisation from the Prophet…" ['Sharh Mukhtaar' as quoted from in 'al-Ibdaa' (pg. 80) of Shaykh Alee Mahfooz]

The real issues is did the PROPHET PBUH prayed tarawih in congregation: YES. Did he make it compulsory NO.

please help me count below how many hadith and how many times the words "SAHIH BUKHARI" are highlighted. smh


Narrated Abu Hurayra: Allah's Apostle said, “Whoever prayed at night the whole month of Ramadan out of sincere faith and hoping for a reward from Allah, then all his previous sins will be forgiven.” Ibn Shihab (a sub-narrator) said, “When Allah's Apostle died, the people continued observing that (i.e. Nawafil offered individually, not in congregation), and it remained as such during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr and in the early days of ‘Umar's Caliphate.” ‘Abdur Rahman bin ‘Abdul Qari said, “I went out in the company of ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups – a man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him.

Then, ‘Umar said, ‘In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (reciter) [i.e. let them pray in congregation!]'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubayy bin Ka’b. Then, on another night, I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, ‘Umar remarked, 'What an excellent bid'a (innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but rather sleep at its time, is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night."
[Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 3, book 32, number 227]

“It was called bid’ah because the Prophet (s) did not use to pray it in congregation, and neither was it prayed like that in the time of al-Siddiq (referring to the first Caliph), nor in the early part of night or with these number of units.”
[al-Qastallani, Irshad al-Sari Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 5, page 4]
[al-Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim, volume 6, page 287]

“‘Umar was the first who set the example of the night prayer of Ramadan, the Tarawih, and gathered people for it, and instructed different regions regarding it. This was during the month of Ramadhan of the year 14 (hijri). He appointed for the people reciters of the Qur’an who led the Tarawih prayer for men and women.”
[Ibn Sa’d, Kitab al-Tabaqat, volume 3, page 281]
[al-Suyuti, Tarikh al-Khulafa', page 137]
[al-‘Ayni, ‘Umdat al-Qari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 6, page 125]

The Prophet (s) said: “O people! Perform your prayers at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is what he performs at his home, except the compulsory (congregational) prayer."
[Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 9, book 92, number 393]

Narrated Zayd bin Thabit: Allah's Apostle (s) made a small room (with a palm leaf mat). He (s) came out (of his house) and prayed in it. Some men came and joined him in his prayer. Then again the next night they came for the prayer, but the Prophet (s) delayed and did not come out to them. So they raised their voices and knocked the door with small stones (to draw his attention). He came out to them in a state of anger, saying, “You are still insisting (on your deed) that I fear this prayer might become obligatory on you. So, O you people! offer this prayer at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is the one which he offers at home, except the compulsory (congregational) prayer.”

[Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 8, book 73, number 134]

vedaxcool: Abdur Rahman Sulami narrates that Ali (Allah be pleased with him) called the reciters of the Quran in Ramadan and commanded one of them to perform “twenty rakat” (Tarawih) while Ali (Allah be pleased with him) himself used to lead the witr prayer. [Bayhaqi Sunan al-Kubra Volume 002, Page No. 699, Hadith Number 4620]

And the shia say Ali r.a practice biddah! Na unah sabi!

vedaxcool:

And the shia say Ali r.a practice biddah! Na unah sabi!

fear Allah Vedaxcool.this is the month of ramadan.

the Shia didn't say that.you presented a fabricated hadith to imply that after the matter has being made clear for all to see the reality of taraweeh from the most reliable hadiths of you Sunnis.

seek Allah's forgiveness that is better for you.lying is haram.

^

Poor you, Ali let you down again huh? Following the foot steps of Umar r.a! Lol now u want to tell us which hadiths are acceptable right? Keep dreaming! The truth has been shown to all! Whatever allegation u lay on us falls back on Ali r.a as this hadiths clearer shows he did not forbid the practice of tarawih in congregation which the prophet pbuh practice! Alhamdulilah!

vedaxcool: ^

Poor you, Ali let you down again huh? Following the foot steps of Umar r.a! Lol now u want to tell us which hadiths are acceptable right? Keep dreaming! The truth has been shown to all! Whatever allegation u lay on us falls back on Ali r.a as this hadiths clearer shows he did not forbid the practice of tarawih in congregation which the prophet pbuh practice! Alhamdulilah!

bid'a is bid'a.dont hide behind the excuse of a weak and fabricated Sunni hadith trying to justify a bid'a by using Imam Ali's (as) name.after the book of Allah (the Quran),"sahih bukhari" is the most authentic and reliable book to Sunnis.most of the hadiths proving taraweeh to be bid'a and stated clearly it is bid'a are found in bukhari.

we have thus presented all hadiths from Sunni books.if you want to make a case against us by using the name of Imam Ali (as) or any of the 12 Imams (as) from the Ahlul-Bayt (as) we Shia Muslims revere and obey only second to Prophet Muhammad (sa),then bring a hadith from Shia books of hadith showing that they performed taraweeh.it is that simple.

if you fail to do this,then please you should wake up from your "ghaflah" and face the truth.

^
Lol , who begs u to pray tarawih in congregation? This shias sef even for ramadan . . . Well you say umar r.a did biddah (something the prophet did he prayed in a smaller congregation) we say our hadith shows Ali r.a doing likewise! Have a pleasant evening atleast Imamu Hiding would have help but well this is a serious example of dereliction of duty!

vedaxcool: ^
Lol , who begs u to pray tarawih in congregation? This shias sef even for ramadan . . . Well you say umar r.a did biddah (something the prophet did he prayed in a smaller congregation) we say our hadith shows Ali r.a doing likewise! Have a pleasant evening atleast Imamu Hiding would have help but well this is a serious example of dereliction of duty!

you know the hadiths making taraweeh bid'a and the Prophet (sa) prohibiting it are authentic regardless of who later is reported to have prayed it or not;that is if i am to be kind in argument and to assume for argument sake the fabricated Sunni hadith that Imam Ali (as) prayed taraweeh is authentic.and i am sure you are smart enough to know why someone would want to insert Imam Ali's (as) name into a subject like taraweeh to justify such bid'a.

anyways,my brotherly advice to you in this holy month is to repent and follow the path of the Ahlul-Bayt (as)-one of the "two weighty things" left by the Prophet (sa).i am about breaking my fast and i wish the best for you.if you become a Shia today,it will do me no good or harm in this world.this question of taraweeh clearly exposes who is following bid'a and midguidance.i only wish for Allah's reward in the hereafter.my last word to you is simple: you can play hide and seek on nairaland but not with Allah (swt) and His Prophet (sa).you Sunnis in this thread have failed to answer many questions and challenges.a word is enough for the wise.

Lol . I plan to do what Ali r.a did this night Allah bless the ummah for their efforts in this regards amin! May Allah peace and blessings be upon the Prophet and his house hold! May Allah blessings be upon the the companions of the prophet pbuh amin! May Allah guide the misguided nasibis to the right path amin! May Allah guide the kafirs to the right path! Amin may Allah straighten the conduct of the Muslims and grant us victory over the enemies of Islam! Amin.

vedaxcool: Lol . I plan to do what Ali r.a did this night Allah bless the ummah for their efforts in this regards amin! May Allah peace and blessings be upon the Prophet and his house hold! May Allah blessings be upon the the companions of the prophet pbuh amin! May Allah guide the misguided nasibis to the right path amin! May Allah guide the kafirs to the right path! Amin may Allah straighten the conduct of the Muslims and grant us victory over the enemies of Islam! Amin.

ameen to your prayers.

LagosShia:

here is a challenge for you:

please other than the instituted bid'ah of tarawih (which is nafila and supplementary),give us an example of any prayer in Islam that is not obligatory and is prayed in congregation by you.

obligatory prayers= can be prayed in congregation and individually.

prayers that are nafilat or not obligatory=can only be prayed individually and not in congregation.

Salatul Istisqa

In addition, we don't really draw rulings based on peculiarities
Salatul Khauf is peculiar = is it bid'ah
Salatul Khusuf has its own peculiarities
The intention (niyah) for acts of ibaadah are not uttered
But we utter the intention for Hajj

LagosShia:

IF YOU SAY THE PROPHET (sa) STOPPED PEOPLE FROM PRAYING IT SO THAT IT WOULD NOT BE MADE OBLIGATORY UPON,THEN WHY DO YOU STILL INSIST TO PRAY IT IN MOSQUES EVERYDAY FROM THE FIRST TO LAST DAY OF THE HOLY MONTH OF RAMADHAN? is that following the order of the Prophet (sa) in not making it obligatory or is it opposite to the Prophet's (sa) order?

Please let us be clear
I did not say the above. The hadith did
Are you implying that the Prophet did Bidah when he allowed people to join him?
Are we to draw conclusions other that what the Prophet (PBUH) explicitly told us

If you have a problem with the hadith because it is not a Shia hadith, I have no problem with that
But if you accept the Hadith, you must accept the reason given by the Prophet (PBUH) for stopping them
My interpretation = there are benefits in this thing but I don't want it to become a source of punishment if it is made compulsory and you are unable to keep to it

Allah knows best

BetaThings:
Salatul Istisqa

In addition, we don't really draw rulings based on peculiarities
Salatul Khauf is peculiar = is it bid'ah
Salatul Khusuf has its own peculiarities
The intention (niyah) for acts of ibaadah are not uttered
But we utter the intention for Hajj

please what is your point from the above?

Please let us be clear
I did not say the above. The hadith did
Are you implying that the Prophet did Bidah when he allowed people to join him?
Are we to draw conclusions other that what the Prophet (PBUH) explicitly told us

the Prophet (sa) did not allow people join him.in other words he did not show approval but they joined him and he later on prohibited it.if we are to follow what the Prophet (sa) did or say,are we to do taraweeh in congregation or not? based on what the Prophet (sa) said,which is sunnah:to do taraweeh in congregation or not to do it in congregation but at home? please it is very simple.to do in congregation or not to do if we are to stick to what our Prophet (sa) said and not opinions of "scholars".

If you have a problem with the hadith because it is not a Shia hadith, I have no problem with that
But if you accept the Hadith, you must accept the reason given by the Prophet (PBUH) for stopping them
My interpretation = there are benefits in this thing but I don't want it to become a source of punishment if it is made compulsory and you are unable to keep to it

Allah knows best

before or after obligatory prayers daily,we Muslims offer nafilah (optional prayers of two rek'ats) individually and not in congregation.the Prophet (sa) did not stop that so that it would not "become obligatory".he only stopped the one that people want to make obligatory and start praying in congregation.i have no problem with the hadith.i just want us to reason.why would praying it in congregation "make it look obligatory" when daily we pray two rek'ats nafila after or before obligatory prayers as "sunnah".how does praying it in congregation if it is allowed make it look obligatory? what is the rational? you are evading the point deliberately.and that is dishonesty.now that you people pray taraweeh daily from the first to the last day of the month of ramadan,why dont you remember what the Prophet (sa) said as "sunnah" not to pray it in congregation?

@BetaThing

if i may also add,what do you think about those hadiths in bukhari that outright call taraweeh bid'a and attribute it to Umar?

there is also the issue of 8 or 20 rek'ats.how do you know how many rek'ats to do? is it specified anywhere that the Prophet (sa) did 20 rek'ats,if we are to assume he prayed taraweeh?

note that what the Prophet (sa) was performing when people came to join him was tahajjud.the name taraweeh was never used by the Prophet (sa) and not mentioned in the Quran.

Rafidi :

my point is since it is obligatory for a dead muslim to be offered upon janaza prayer,janaza prayer is therefore an obligatory prayer that is performed in congregation.the point is all congregational prayers are obligatory prayers.if a prayer is not obligatory it cannot be performed in congregation and if it is only allowed to be performed at home,then it is not obligatory.now you are asserting that because you are not required to do it therefore it is not obligatory even though it is performed in congregation.now let me ask you this:CAN YOU PERFORM JANAZA PRAYER AT HOME? no because janaza is congregational only.nafilat are supplementary and individually offered only.obligatory can be performed both in congregation and individually.

.

The prayer for rain is performed in congregation? Is it compulsory?
If we like, we may not pray for rain. But when we decide to pray it, we would do it in congregation
So it is not correct to say all congregational prayer are compulsory
When we are informed that after Asr, we are going to pay Janazah, I may leave the mosque immediately after praying Asr in congregation and just leave the people who want to pray Janazah to get it done
I insist that Janazah is not obligatory for me so long as some have performed it
If I miss, will I make it up?
If I miss Dhur, will I make it up?

Rafidi :

it is either the version in bukhari is correct or the one in Muslim is correct.so you have to decide.if the Prophet (s) fears it would be made obligatory,then why was it okay to pray it individually as other hadith suggest that it is not obligatory and should not be performed in congregation?

There is nothing wrong with any of the two. Muslim uses exactly the words in Bukhari and goes further to explain the reason

Rafidi :

it is clear from the hadith presented that the Prophet (s) asked Muslims to pray their supplementary prayer at home and not in congregation. the question still remains:why does praying a non-obligatory prayer in congregation make it look like obligatory? is there any rule that supplementary prayers known as nafilat (including taraweeh) which are offered individually as extra prayers should not be prayed in congregation? it is very clear that obligatory prayers are to be offered in congregation but can also be offered at home or individually.while supplementary prayers or nafilat should only be done individually and not in congregation.

The Prophet (PBUH) prayed with them for 2 days before stopping. Was he doing bid'ah then?
The conclusion about non-obligatory prayres being said in the mosque is your own ruling which I do not share.
There are only 5 obligatory prayers collected on the night of miraj.
There are different rulings for different activities.

BetaThings:

The prayer for rain is performed in congregation? Is it compulsory?
If we like, we may not pray for rain. But when we decide to pray it, we would do it in congregation
So it is not correct to say all congregational prayer are compulsory
When we are informed that after Asr, we are going to pay Janazah, I may leave the mosque immediately after praying Asr in congregation and just leave the people who want to pray Janazah to get it done
I insist that Janazah is not obligatory for me so long as some have performed it
If I miss, will I make it up?
If I miss Dhur, will I make it up?

you are mentioning prayers that possibly some Muslims have never heard of in their lifetime.these prayers for rain or during eclipse are done to invoke Allah (swt) for mercy.

Obligatory prayers can be done both in congregation and individually.

optional prayers can be done individually only.

the category of prayers you are citing as examples are done in times of emergency to invoke Allah (jj) out of need.if you like dont do it and die in thirst.the point is,these special prayers like janaza salat cannot be used to draw reference here.even their method of praying them are different in pattern.they follow special methods and reciting particular surah or dua,e.t.c.

There is nothing wrong with any of the two. Muslim uses exactly the words in Bukhari and goes further to explain the reason

the reason is so that the prayers do not become obligatory.so you that perform everyday (during the month of ramadan) in congregation are you following the sunnah of the Prophet (s)-not to pray it in congregation so it doesn't become obligatory? i still do not understand the logic in that hadith that praying in congregation would make it obligatory.why does praying it in congregation make it look obligatory? can you explain that? to me it simply means that it is not obligatory so it should be offered individually or at home and only the obligatory prayers should be offered in congregation.

and that is what is clear from these two hadiths:

The Prophet (s) said: “O people! Perform your prayers at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is what he performs at his home, except the compulsory (congregational) prayer."
[Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 9, book 92, number 393]
[al-Nasa’i, Sunan, volume 3, p. 161, p. 198]

Once Abdullah bin Mas’ud asked the Prophet (s): “Which is better; to pray in my house or in the mosque?” The Prophet (s) replied: “Do you not see how near to the mosque my house is? To pray in my house is more beloved to me than to pray in the mosque except for the obligatory prayers.”
[Ibn Majah, Sunan, volume 1, page 439, number 1378]

The Prophet (PBUH) prayed with them for 2 days before stopping. Was he doing bid'ah then?
The conclusion about non-obligatory prayres being said in the mosque is your own ruling which I do not share.
There are only 5 obligatory prayers collected on the night of miraj.
There are different rulings for different activities.

the Prophet (s) cannot do anything "bid'a" because he is the teacher and it is what differs from what he said or did that becomes bid'a.according to hadiths earlier presented the Prophet (s) did not order or teach them to do it.it was their desire.and it is agreed that the Prophet (sa) only pass rules when he receives revelations.alcohol was not forbidden in the initial part of his mission but was later totally banned after revelations he received.so do we now drink alcohol and ask if the Prophet (s) allowed it or not?

Lagosshia! Frosbel and logicboy need your attention at the other side. Shukran!

AbuHanifa: Lagosshia! Frosbel and logicboy need your attention at the other side. Shukran!

please post the link.

LagosShia:
please what is your point from the above?

I just told you that salatul istisqa is not obligatory but is prayed in congregation

I added that certain things have peculiarities and so should not be nullified on account of that
Salatul Taraweeh, Salatul Khusuf, Salatul Khauf have peculiarities but are not nullified on account of their unique attributes

LagosShia:
the Prophet (sa) did not allow people join him.in other words he did not show approval but they joined him and he later on prohibited it.if we are to follow what the Prophet (sa) did or say,are we to do taraweeh in congregation or not? based on what the Prophet (sa) said,which is sunnah:to do taraweeh in congregation or not to do it in congregation but at home? please it is very simple.to do in congregation or not to do if we are to stick to what our Prophet (sa) said and not opinions of "scholars".

He gave reasons for his not allowing people to join him. Were it haram or bid'ah, he would have forbidden it with alacrity
But he only told them that praying at home is better
Don't fast on the first of Shawaal, fast in other days of Shawwal is different from
It is better for you to fast on other days of Shawwal
One is forbidden (punishable), one is not recommended (ignored or has smaller reward)

LagosShia:
before or after obligatory prayers daily,we Muslims offer nafilah (optional prayers of two rek'ats) individually and not in congregation.the Prophet (sa) did not stop that so that it would not "become obligatory".he only stopped the one that people want to make obligatory and start praying in congregation.i have no problem with the hadith.i just want us to reason.why would praying it in congregation "make it look obligatory" when daily we pray two rek'ats nafila after or before obligatory prayers as "sunnah".how does praying it in congregation if it is allowed make it look obligatory? what is the rational? you are evading the point deliberately.and that is dishonesty.now that you people pray taraweeh daily from the first to the last day of the month of ramadan,why dont you remember what the Prophet (sa) said as "sunnah" not to pray it in congregation?

You make it tedious to discuss issues. Nobody has said anything about "looking obligatory"
This is the third deliberate misquoting that I have to correct and you are talking about dishonesty

It has been repeated severally on this thread that the reason is that it "could be made compulsory". By who? By Allah
The Prophet (PBUH) did not have to fear anyone beside Allah
You may not agree with the reason, but asking questions that have been answered is tiresome

Taraweeh in congregation has immense blessings but the Prophet (PBUH)did not forbid it on days 1 & 2
He forbade it on day 3, citing reasons. He was a Prophet (PBUH) on those days that he allowed it
But His fear of additional duties punishable for non-observance led to his staying back on day 3

As to regular nawafil. That is a daily routine. The daily salat routine had been separately legislated during the Night journey
So there was no fear of anything being added to that

Taraweeh is not a daily prayer. It is peculiar to Ramadan only. So the ruling might still have been changed
Allah knows best

Rafidi :


you are mentioning prayers that possibly some Muslims have never heard of in their lifetime.these prayers for rain or during eclipse are done to invoke Allah (swt) for mercy.

The fact that some muslims have never heard of something does not remove the need to do it. Or stop their existence

Rafidi :

optional prayers can be done individually only.

This is your personal ruling. I don't agree with it

Rafidi :

the category of prayers you are citing as examples are done in times of emergency to invoke Allah (jj) out of need.if you like dont do it and die in thirst.the point is,these special prayers like janaza salat cannot be used to draw reference here.even their method of praying them are different in pattern.they follow special methods and reciting particular surah or dua,e.t.c.

Then Taraweeh being a peculiar nawafeel (Ramadan only) should also not be compared to regular nawafeel said throughout the year
So we should allow Taraweeh to have special methods like its cousins

Rafidi :

the reason is so that the prayers do not become obligatory.so you that perform everyday (during the month of ramadan) in congregation are you following the sunnah of the Prophet (s)-not to pray it in congregation so it doesn't become obligatory? i still do not understand the logic in that hadith that praying in congregation would make it obligatory.why does praying it in congregation make it look obligatory? can you explain that? to me it simply means that it is not obligatory so it should be offered individually or at home and only the obligatory prayers should be offered in congregation.

and that is what is clear from these two hadiths:

The Prophet (s) said: “O people! Perform your prayers at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is what he performs at his home, except the compulsory (congregational) prayer."
[Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 9, book 92, number 393]
[al-Nasa’i, Sunan, volume 3, p. 161, p. 198]

Once Abdullah bin Mas’ud asked the Prophet (s): “Which is better; to pray in my house or in the mosque?” The Prophet (s) replied: “Do you not see how near to the mosque my house is? To pray in my house is more beloved to me than to pray in the mosque except for the obligatory prayers.”
[Ibn Majah, Sunan, volume 1, page 439, number 1378]

The BEST or MORE BELOVED does not mean the only or the only Halal

Rafidi :

the Prophet (s) cannot do anything "bid'a" because he is the teacher and it is what differs from what he said or did that becomes bid'a.according to hadiths earlier presented the Prophet (s) did not order or teach them to do it.it was their desire.and it is agreed that the Prophet (sa) only pass rules when he receives revelations.alcohol was not forbidden in the initial part of his mission but was later totally banned after revelations he received.so do we now drink alcohol and ask if the Prophet (s) allowed it or not?

THank you
The Prophet (PBUH) did some act that earned rewards. If I do it now, I will get baraka
But He (PBUH) stopped after 2 days because he believed the risk of punishment for failure to comply of made compulsory was greater than the benefits
Like Musa (AS) said during the night journey, salat is not easy

BetaThings:
I just told you that salatul istisqa is not obligatory but is prayed in congregation

I added that certain things have peculiarities and so should not be nullified on account of that
Salatul Taraweeh, Salatul Khusuf, Salatul Khauf have peculiarities but are not nullified on account of their unique attributes


He gave reasons for his not allowing people to join him. Were it haram or bid'ah, he would have forbidden it with alacrity
But he only told them that praying at home is better
Don't fast on the first of Shawaal, fast in other days of Shawwal is different from
It is better for you to fast on other days of Shawwal
One is forbidden (punishable), one is not recommended (ignored or has smaller reward)



You make it tedious to discuss. Nobody has said anything about "looking obligatory"
It has been repeated severally on this thread that the reason is that it "could be made compulsory". By who? By Allah
The Prophet (PBUH) did not have to fear anyone beside Allah
You may not agree with the reason, but asking questions that have been answered is tiresome

As to regular nawafil. That is a daily routine. THe daily salat routine has been separately legislated during the Night journey
So no fear of anything being added

Taraweeh is not a daily prayer. It is peculiar to Ramadan only. So the ruling might still have been changed
Allah knows best

you have still not answered why when the people wanted to turn it into a congregational prayer (i.e. tahajjud not even taraweeh,which is a later invention,even its name) got the Prophet (sa) angry? this is in the hadith.why was he angry? if people were doing something extra,then that should make him happy because it is recommended.people pray nafila before or after obligatory prayers and that did not get the Prophet (sa) angry.in fact the issue is not whether it is obligatory or recommended.we all agree the so called taraweeh is optional and not obligatory.but why was the Prophet (sa) angry when they wanted to insist in praying it in congregation and instead sent them to pray it individually or at home? you are smartly trying to evade that point.but it is not going away! the question is not whether it is obligatory or optional.is it congregational or not congregational,is the issue.besides,if i am to ask you a question:does praying in congregation make a prayer obligatory? ofcourse you'd say no and you'd bring me special community prayers for divine succour and relief to claim that.so why was the Prophet (sa) angry if praying in congregation won't make it obligatory?

what does the Prophet (sa) mean that he fear it would become obligatory upon you.now i dont think it would be Allah (swt) who is going to make it obligatory because if it was meant to be obligatory,then Allah (swt) will make it obligatory regardless if people want to pray it or not in congregation."it would become" means people would develop the habit and make it look like.as in the point is so clear:they were being prevented from praying it in congregation so that it does not look obligatory.if Allah (swt) wanted to make it obligatory he would have.and if He wills not to make it obligatory He would not have.and to prove my point this is what the Quran says:

Holy Quran 20:2
"We have not sent down to you the Qur'an that you be distressed"

Holy Qur 'an 22: 78
"And He has not laid upon you in religion any hardship"...

whatever causes hardship Allah (swt) will not make it obligatory even if you pray in congregation from today till one million years to come.and what is to be obligatory,no laziness or smartness would stop Allah (swt) from decreeing it obligatory.whatever is decreed obligatory is for our good and because we need it.

the five obligatory prayers and the eid prayers and friday prayer, are to be prayed in congregation.there are even explicit hadiths where the Prophet (sa) said pray the obligatory prayers in the mosque (i.e. in congregation) while you pray the optional prayers at home.if we agree that what you call taraweeh is optional,then pray it at home.it is that simple.

your other prayers like salat al-kusuf (for eclipse) and salat istisqa (for rain) for relief which you like to mention,are prayed not even as optional prayers.they are not even optional prayers if we really want to think deep about what they are.i do not pray them any time i feel like praying them like any nafila.they are not even nafila.you cannot pray them daily like nafila.you only offer them when you are in distress and it is necessary for you to beseech Allah (swt) just like we offer dua (supplication).if you like dont offer them and when you do that deliberately sitting at home instead of joining others,then the punishment will add and the result is no rain and natural disasters.so please try and answer simple questions and face what is stated in the hadiths that do not even need much stress to understand.but ofcourse you want to give cover to something that is reported to be bid'ah by playing smart.

PS:base on the reason you gave,it is actually very ridiculous and at the same time insulting that the Prophet (sa) would stop a practice so that Allah (swt) would not see it and make it obligatory.do you think the Prophet (sa) was nonchalant about the religion? you said the Prophet (sa) did not allow it and said they should pray it at home.so praying it individually or at home is what is sunnah.whatever you're offering in congregation from the 1st day of the month of ramadan to the last day,is neither a sunnah of the Prophet (sa) and not a command by Allah (swt).it is the desire of people that even goes contrary to the sunnah of the Prophet (sa) which is to pray it alone.right?

LagosShia:
PS:base on the reason you gave,it is actually very ridiculous and at the same time insulting that the Prophet (sa) would stop a practice so that Allah (swt) would not see it and make it obligatory.do you think the Prophet (sa) was nonchalant about the religion? you said the Prophet (sa) did not allow it and said they should pray it at home.so praying it individually or at home is what is sunnah.whatever you're offering in congregation from the 1st day of the month of ramadan to the last day,is neither a sunnah of the Prophet (sa) and not a command by Allah (swt).it is the desire of people that even goes contrary to the sunnah of the Prophet (sa) which is to pray it alone.right?

You are very funny. So Tarweeh in congregation is giving you headaches. You may have that headache for a very long time indeed. #Servesyouright

maclatunji:

You are very funny. So Tarweeh in congregation is giving you headaches. You may have that headache for a very long time indeed. #Servesyouright

yes it is because you are attributing a bid'ah to my Prophet (sa).and this bid'ah made him angry.what angers him (sa) angers me.you're making what is prohibited permitted and what is permitted (mut'ah marriage for instance) prohibited.religion is not based on desires.

it is so ridiculous that those who like to preach about how "every bid'ah is deviation and every deviation leads to hell" are proving themselves nothing but pretenders.

and you are impressing me with your new status: troll moderator or chief troll.

LagosShia:

yes it is because you are attributing a bid'ah to my Prophet (sa).and this bid'ah made him angry.what angers him (sa) angers me.you're making what is prohibited permitted and what is permitted (mut'ah marriage for instance) prohibited.religion is not based on desires.

it is so ridiculous that those who like to preach about how "every bid'ah is deviation and every deviation leads to hell" are proving themselves nothing but pretenders.

and you are impressing me with your new status: troll moderator or chief troll.

It's all about interpretation. Just accept the differences and stop fighting useless battles. There's so much self-development for you to achieve which is much better than what you do at the moment.

maclatunji:

It's all about interpretation. Just accept the differences and stop fighting useless battles. There's so much self-development for you to achieve which is much better than what you do at the moment.

and here we go again.when the Sunni performs his bid'ah and he is opposed,its all good."its all interpretation".but when he misinterpret and consider celebrating birthday of the Prophet (sa), and Ashura (the greatest tragedy in Islam and the day Islam was delivered from the chains of the tyrant) for instance a "bid'ah",he does not see it as "interpretation".he then goes on to call others names like "heretic" and bla bla bla.

well,in Islam,there can be interpretations and that is correct.but interpretations are not supposed to contradict each other or what the Prophet (sa) taught.so on this issue of taraweeh it is a case of misinterpretation.

if i am to ask you the following questions and you answer me,i will cut this debate and rest:

1.) which is sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (sa): to pray taraweeh in congregation or to pray it alone?

2.) who ordered you to pray taraweeh in congregation? who said it is 8 rek'at? and who said it is /made it 20 rek'at?

answer,and i will rest my case.

^^^^

Truly you should be left to banter forever, . . . This settles it for me

vedaxcool: Abdur Rahman Sulami narrates that Ali (Allah be pleased with him) called the reciters of the Quran in Ramadan and commanded one of them to perform “twenty rakat” (Tarawih) while Ali (Allah be pleased with him) himself used to lead the witr prayer. [Bayhaqi Sunan al-Kubra Volume 002, Page No. 699, Hadith Number 4620]

^^^^

and that is how you'd keep being a sect of deviation.a muslim is supposed to follow the teachings of Muhammad (sa) and not the narration of Abdur Rahman Sulami that anyone else did this or that.

follow the sunnah of Muhammad (S).isn't that what you claim by calling yourself a "Sunni"? what a misnomer!!!

childishness and hypocrisy is not going to pay in this thread.

this is an issue that comes up annually.and i'd follow it to make sure pretenders know the truth and are forced to accept it even if they hate it.

^^^^

are you sure you are fasting? we will continue repeating the facts stated for you year in and year out! A muslim is suppose to follow Muhammad teachings not Ali, and the Imams? are you saying Shias are not Muslims? well that is new!

"every bid'ah is deviation and every deviation leads to hell"

yeah right!

LagosShia: ^^^^

and that is how you'd keep being a sect of deviation.a muslim is supposed to follow the teachings of Muhammad (sa) and not the narration of Abdur Rahman Sulami that anyone else did this or that.

follow the sunnah of Muhammad (S).isn't that what you claim by calling yourself a "Sunni"? what a misnomer!!!

childishness and hypocrisy is not going to pay in this thread.

this is an issue that comes up annually.and i'd follow it to make sure pretenders know the truth and are forced to accept it even if they hate it.

Naughty LagosShia, I cannot be arguing endlessly with you. Go to this link and be arguing with the points in your mind http://www.haqislam.org/the-1400-year-history-of-taraweeh-salaah/

vedaxcool: ^^^^

are you sure you are fasting? we will continue repeating the facts stated for you year in and year out! A muslim is suppose to follow Muhammad teachings not Ali, and the Imams? are you saying Shias are not Muslims? well that is new!

i wonder since when Abdur Rahman Sulami become a holy Imam and since when can anyone make a claim that someone did this or that become a "sunnah".

in Shia Islam,the 12 holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) are believed to follow and uphold the sunnah of Muhammad (sa) and not go against it or make contrary remarks.their import is upholding the teachings of Muhammad (sa).

and without hypocrisy and childishness,let it be known to you that if they do not follow the sunnah of Muhammad (sa) i reject them.that is how a Muslim should be.you dont call yourself "Sunni" (follower of sunnah) and then go against the sunnah of Muhammad (S) by following someone else's sunnah.

maclatunji:

Naughty LagosShia, I cannot be arguing endlessly with you. Go to this link and be arguing with the points in your mind http://www.haqislam.org/the-1400-year-history-of-taraweeh-salaah/

http://www.al-islam.org/nutshell/laws_practices/2.htm

LagosShia:

i wonder since when Abdur Rahman Sulami become a holy Imam and since when can anyone make a claim that someone did this or that become a "sunnah".

in Shia Islam,the 12 holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) are believed to follow and uphold the sunnah of Muhammad (sa) and not go against it or make contrary remarks.their import is upholding the teachings of Muhammad (sa).

and without hypocrisy and childishness,let it be known to you that if they do not follow the sunnah of Muhammad (sa) i reject them.that is how a Muslim should be.you dont call yourself "Sunni" (follower of sunnah) and then go against the sunnah of Muhammad (S) by following someone else's sunnah.

so Ali is some else? That's new!