vedaxcool:

so Ali is some else? That's new!

vedaxcool: ^^^

Ali is someone else that new!

A muslim is suppose to follow Muhammad teachings not Ali, and the Imams? that's new!

LagosShia:

i wonder since when Abdur Rahman Sulami become a holy Imam and since when can anyone make a claim that someone did this or that become a "sunnah".

in Shia Islam,the 12 holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) are believed to follow and uphold the sunnah of Muhammad (sa) and not go against it or make contrary remarks.their import is upholding the teachings of Muhammad (sa).

and without hypocrisy and childishness,let it be known to you that if they do not follow the sunnah of Muhammad (sa) i reject them.that is how a Muslim should be.you dont call yourself "Sunni" (follower of sunnah) and then go against the sunnah of Muhammad (S) by following someone else's sunnah.

Ali prayed supererogatory prayers in congregation, that's fact!

vedaxcool: ^^^

Ali is someone else that new!

A muslim is suppose to follow Muhammad teachings not Ali, and the Imams? that's new!

Ali prayed supererogatory prayers in congregation, that's fact!

vedaxcool:

So shias can teach donkeys through repetition, wow that is new! The above points remain unanswered

LagosShia:

yes.taraweeh is bid'ah and Sunnis perform it.

vedaxcool:

and Ali and the prophet pbuh did tarraweeh? so they practised bi dah? that something new?

LagosShia:

this thread is not about teaching people how to read.play somewhere else or learn how to read.

TARAWEEH,TARAWEEH,TARAWEEH=BID'AH,BID'AH,BID'AH

vedaxcool:
AND ALI AND PROPHET MUHAMMED DID TARAWEEH AND LAGOSHIA SAYS THEY PRACTICE BIDDHAH! THAT IS SOMETHING NEW!

Abu Ya'la and at-Tabarani record, with a hasan chain, from Jabir that Ubayy ibn Ka'b came to the Prophet (PBUH) and said: "O Messenger of Allah, I have done something last night," (i.e. during Ramadan). The Prophet said: 'And what was that, O Ubayy?' He said: The women in my house said, 'We don't recite Qur'an [well or much] so can we pray behind you?' I prayed eight rak'at and the witr prayer with them. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) was pleased with that and did not say anything.

The hadith was narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:

“Whoever stands with the imam until he finishes, it is equivalent to spending the whole night in prayer.”

[Narrated by al-Tirmidzi, 806; Abu Dawud, 1375; al-Nasa’ie, 1605; Ibn Majah, 1327; Classified as sahih by al-Tirmidzi, Ibn Khuzaymah (3/337), Ibn Hibban (3/340) and al-Albani in Irwa’ al-Ghalil, 447]

Abu Dharr (radi-Allaahu ’anhu) said,

“We kept the fasts of Ramadhaan with the Messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu ‘alayhe wa sallam), then he led us in Qiyaam (Taraweeh prayer) on the 23rd night (when seven nights were left) till about one third of it passed. He did not observe it on the 24th, then on the 25th night he led us till about half the night passed. We requested to offer supererogatory prayer during the whole night. The Messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu ‘alayhe wa sallam) said, “He who observes Qiyaam along with the Imaam till he finishes it, then it is as if he offered prayer the whole night.” Then he did not observe the Qiyaam with us on the 26th night, then finally on the 27th night he gathered his wives, members of his household and the people and he led everyone in the Qiyaam (Taraweeh prayer) till we feared of missing the dawn meal.” [Ibn Maajah (no. 1327) (2/287) (Arabic/English)]

vedaxcool: Abdur Rahman Sulami narrates that Ali (Allah be pleased with him) called the reciters of the Quran in Ramadan and commanded one of them to perform “twenty rakat” (Tarawih) while Ali (Allah be pleased with him) himself used to lead the witr prayer. [Bayhaqi Sunan al-Kubra Volume 002, Page No. 699, Hadith Number 4620]

vedaxcool:


AND ALI AND PROPHET MUHAMMED DID TARAWEEH AND LAGOSHIA SAYS THEY PRACTICE BIDDHAH! THAT IS SOMETHING NEW!

vedaxcool:



Indeed this is something new, accusing the prophet and Ali of practicing bida'ah!

vedaxcool: Hiss . . .

LagosShia:

you have still not answered why when the people wanted to turn it into a congregational prayer (i.e. tahajjud not even taraweeh,which is a later invention,even its name) got the Prophet (sa) angry? [/b]this is in the hadith.why was he angry? [b]if people were doing something extra,then that should make him happy because it is recommended.people pray nafila before or after obligatory prayers and that did not get the Prophet (sa) angry.

[/b]

LagosShia:

you have still not answered why when the people wanted to turn it into a congregational prayer (i.e. tahajjud not even taraweeh,which is a later invention,even its name) got the Prophet (sa) angry? this is in the hadith.why was he angry? if people were doing something extra,then that should make him happy because it is recommended.people pray nafila before or after obligatory prayers and that did not get the Prophet (sa) angry.

[/b]

LagosShia:

you are smartly trying to evade that point.but it is not going away! the question is not whether it is obligatory or optional.is it congregational or not congregational,is the issue.besides,if i am to ask you a question:does praying in congregation make a prayer obligatory? ofcourse you'd say no and you'd bring me special community prayers for divine succour and relief to claim that.so why was the Prophet (sa) angry if praying in congregation won't make it obligatory?

[/b]

BetaThings:

I did not say the above. The hadith did
Are you implying that the Prophet did Bidah when he allowed people to join him?
Are we to draw conclusions other that what the Prophet (PBUH) explicitly told us

If you have a problem with the hadith because it is not a Shia hadith, I have no problem with that
But if you accept the Hadith, you must accept the reason given by the Prophet (PBUH) for stopping them
My interpretation = there are benefits in this thing but I don't want it to become a source of punishment if it is made compulsory and you are unable to keep to it

Allah knows best

LagosShia:

what does the Prophet (sa) mean that he fear it would become obligatory upon you.now i dont think it would be Allah (swt) who is going to make it obligatory because if it was meant to be obligatory,then Allah (swt) will make it obligatory regardless if people want to pray it or not in congregation.

LagosShia:

it would become means people would develop the habit and make it look like.as in the point is so clear:they were being prevented from praying it in congregation so that it does not look obligatory.if Allah (swt) wanted to make it obligatory he would have.and if He wills not to make it obligatory He would not have.and to prove my point this is what the Quran says:

LagosShia:
so please try and answer simple questions and face what is stated in the hadiths that do not even need much stress to understand.but ofcourse you want to give cover to something that is reported to be bid'ah by playing smart.

LagosShia:
PS:base on the reason you gave,it is actually very ridiculous and at the same time insulting that the Prophet (sa) would stop a practice so that Allah (swt) would not see it and make it obligatory.do you think the Prophet (sa) was nonchalant about the religion? you said the Prophet (sa) did not allow it and said they should pray it at home.so praying it individually or at home is what is sunnah.whatever you're offering in congregation from the 1st day of the month of ramadan to the last day,is neither a sunnah of the Prophet (sa) and not a command by Allah (swt).it is the desire of people that even goes contrary to the sunnah of the Prophet (sa) which is to pray it alone.right?