Different concepts of destiny and fate
Destiny may be envisaged as fore-ordained by the Divine (for example, the Protestant concept of predestination) or by human will (for example, the American concept of Manifest Destiny).
A sense of destiny in its oldest human sense is in the soldier's fatalistic image of the "bullet that has your name on it" or the moment when your number "comes up," or a romance that was "meant to be." The human sense that there must be a hidden purpose in the random lottery governs the selection of Theseus to be among the youths to be sacrificed to the Minotaur.
Destiny may be seen either as a fixed sequence of events that is inevitable and unchangeable, or that individuals choose their own destiny by choosing different paths throughout their life. Is Destiny is fate?
Although the words are used interchangeably in many cases, fate and destiny can be distinguished. Modern usage defines fate as a power or agency that predetermines and orders the course of events. Fate defines events as ordered or "inevitable". Fate is used in regard to the finality of events as they have worked themselves out; and that same sense of finality, projected into the future to become the inevitability of events as they will work themselves out, is Destiny. In classical and European mythology, there are three goddesses dispensing fate, The "Fates" known as Moirae in Greek mythology, as Parcae in Roman mythology, and Norns in Norse mythology; they determine the events of the world through the mystic spinning of threadsthat represent individual human destinies.
One word derivative of "fate" is "fatality", another "fatalism". Fate implies no choice, and ends fatally, with a death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny
Were you destined not to be born in daffur? Why do accidents happen and some people die while the others are alive?
Tell your story and if you believe it was fate, destiny or predestination.

there is no answering this question without first defining the key word here . . . salvation.

Saved from what and to what? Without that the above question is as good as useless.

As far as God is concerned all men should be saved:

1Tim 2 1-I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4[b]who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.[/b]

Maybe the question is not phrased well, let me explain with an example.
A friend wanted to travel from port harcourt to warri, she gets to the park and gets a ticket for a bus B . But there is a little misunderstanding in bus A and for some reason a lady forgot something and came down from the bus the passengers are impatient and demand to go so they asked for someone going to warri without luggage and my friend who was sitting at the passenger seat just beside the driver opts to leave with A because she wants to get to warri before dark .
Just as they crossed from bayelsa to patani (those not familiar with the road thats roughly 2 hours into the journey) bus B zooms past them and she began to feel a little regret.
On getting to ughelli they find the bus by the side of the road with people gathered round it, at first she thought it was an accident but when they stopped and pulled over they were told that some robbers tried to attack the car some way behind but the driver refused to stop so they shot at the bus many times, unfortunately a bullet hit and killed a boy that was sitting on the sit she left.
So to cut the story short was she destined or predestined to leave that bus when she did, was the boy destined to loose his life that day?

There are a thousand and one reasons why the boy died instead of the woman.

Thinking it is destiny alone is not proper.

We are not God and may never know why the boy died instead of the woman. God did not orchestrate it but He allowed it and He knows why.

@AKO
Ok if thats how you see it , so can one say the boy was destined to die that day or that the syntax of his choices for the day landed him on the sit? I don't know if you get what I am driving at

Chrisbenogor:

Ok if thats how you see it , so can one say the boy was destined to die that day or that the syntax of his choices for the day landed him on the sit? I don't know if you get what I am driving at

Lol. . . I get what you're driving at, and as I hinted in the other thread I'll throw in a few bits soon enough. Please bear with me for the mo.

Regards.

As humans we are finite and cannot know tomorrow. Why the lady was spared and the boy died is not ours to judge.

@Chrisbenogor,

Okay, I promised to come back and share a few things.

The question of the thread again: "Was It Destiny, Fate Or Predestination That Saved You?"

Well, I'm persuaded that davidylan's initial entry actually underscores the whole point - from a Christian perspective. What saves anyone is. . .? But wait, what is one being saved from?

If salvation is what we're discussing, then the simple answer is this: neither destiny, nor fate, nor predestination saves anyone. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is what secures salvation.

Now the example you gave in expounding what you wanted us to think about was the case of the boy who was hit by the bullet? Was it destiny, fate or predestination that saved the woman rather than the boy? I don't know - we may never be able to tell (IMHO). That difficult events happen even to believers is clearly taught in the Bible. Consequently, one has to understand what the Bible defines as predestination if a good understanding could be obtained.

'Predestination' is often misunderstood by many. God did not ordain anyone to be lost or saved; people rathermake their choice between both concepts and are either saved or lost. The idea that some people are "destined" to be saved while others are to be lost regardless of what they do is a fatalistic ideology which is not taught in the Bible. One may find this 'fatalistic' ideology in many faiths and religions, but definitely not in the Biblical worldview. However, there are 3 basic understanding that I think the Bible gives about the word "predestination" and its derivatives. Basically, as regards our salvation, it simply means that God had desired that people are saved rather than lost, and those who embrace that offer of salvation actually are made partakers of that divine predestination.

I don't remember reading about "fate" in the Bible; but if one should follow the definitions offered earlier in the OP, there may be some concepts that are identical with the Christian worldview. 'Identical', in terms of what underlying currents both ideas express. Same could be said of 'destiny'.

Generally speaking, there are many ideas about all 3 words/concepts, so it is not going to be a single concesus among discussants on what exactly we should be looking for here.

I don't want anyone to judge, I am just saying given the syntax of events that the boy had to arrive at the right time, and the girl had to make that split second choice to leave and the driver had to drive at a certain speed to reach the spot where he was shot at the very second they got there.
Where these events ordered(divine) or were they random?

As I said earlier, without trying to be dogmatic, one would need to first establish a strong connection between the concepts being discussed before expecting any informed inputs. How does one expect to link 'random' events to 'fate, destiny and predestination'?

@pilgrim
I was not hinting at being "Saved" and I know its not going to be a general concesus.

Chrisbenogor:

I don't want anyone to judge, I am just saying given the syntax of events that the boy had to arrive at the right time, and the girl had to make that split second choice to leave and the driver had to drive at a certain speed to reach the spot where he was shot at the very second they got there.
Where these events ordered(divine) or were they random?

But you, my friend, are now looking at two different things.

What should we discuss: the accident or salvation?

@A_K_O
Not salvation bro I mean the event, (accident in this case) which could be anything.
But are both of them not events?(salvation and accident)
Just asking

Chrisbenogor:

@pilgrim
I was not hinting at being "Saved" and I know its not going to be a general concesus.

I know. Just thought to help our readers understand the difference it makes because I'm sure that the topic of the thread may easily lead to that inference of 'salvation'.

However, leaving those behind for a moment, I'm trying to establish a connection between 'random' events and 'fate'.

Let's look at it this way: generally speaking, people tend to look at 'fate' as defining events as ordered or "inevitable". In this regard, I think the case is made already and does not need to be discussed further upon a question of whether these events were "ordered(divine) or were they random". Thus, if fate is defined in terms of what is "ordered", why would we be yet asking whether the events were "ordered" or 'random'? You see my point?

Hmmm ok, from what you said I think fate sums it up, fate is the end result of what happened. So the events that led to the end result, do you think they were ordered or random?( I am trying really hard to pass a message across can't really find the words)

Chrisbenogor:

@A_K_O
Not salvation bro I mean the event, (accident in this case) which could be anything.
But are both of them not events?(salvation and accident)
Just asking

Pilgrim.1 is right. There is nothing like fate and even 'luck' in christianity. The bible doesnt suggest.

Only God knows why exactly the young boy died. Because it is only Him that can see everything including all that happens behind the scenes.
If we try to figure out why,. we could end up with thousands of possible reasons. Did the boy dishonour his parents and hence didnt live long in the land of the living(Eph. 6:2)? Did he refuse to pray that day? Had he fulfilled his destiny already? ETC.

So its best we leave it to God.

Lol, dear bros. I can understand how you feel - I've been there too (sometimes the words fail us when we have something weighty to share).

Anyhow, let me try and follow your line of reasoning. You offered that:

Chrisbenogor:

. . I think fate sums it up, fate is the end result of what happened. So the events that led to the end result, do you think they were ordered or random?

It seems to me that you're trying to help us see two things in your application: (a) "fate", and (b) "destiny". Although used interchangeably, it appears that the simple difference between them in your outline is just a matter of events that are either "random" or "ordered". But actually, it seems that both terms (fate and destiny) are defined as events that are "ordered". If this is the case, then we have nothing to project in terms of events that are "random". Am I missing something here?

@A_K_O
Seems I am sending the wrong message across. But I mean was the boy destined to die at the moment, I am not looking for reasons why he died that would not be possible to ascertain from the spiritual point of view, physically he was shot. Were the events that led up to his shooting ordered or random? Thats what I mean.

@pilgrim
The answer to that last question lies somewhere in the first post.
Destiny could be seen as the inevitable events or the individuals choices. Does that shed some light?

@pilgrim
English dey fall my hand chei

Perhaps an easier way to put it would be to prognosticate the hypothesis. By this, I mean that we may take one issue at a time and work out our inferences therefrom and see where they lead.

So, let me start by hypothetically assuming that the incident was random instead of ordered. Now, how do we proceed from there?

@pilgrim
Great, if the events were random it would mean that there is no force controlling things on this earth everything that happens to us is as a result of purely our choices and not influenced at all, you catching my drift?
So for instance if someone prays for financial help and someone gives him some money after some time it would be a total coincidence.

@A_K_O
Help me delete the other thread it was a mistake, leave this one thanks.

@Chrisbenogor,

Chrisbenogor:

Great, if the events were random it would mean that there is no force controlling things on this earth everything that happens to us is as a result of purely our choices and not influenced at all, you catching my drift?

I anticipated you long ago, so no surprises there. Remember that I was merely prognosticating your inference. However, if "everything" that happens to us is just purely "random", then we are to believe that there is nothing that could be observed to be "ordered". And you of all people know that is really far from reality. The only thing one could say is that the inference thereof is subjective and not empirical - not in any sense of the word.

However, even if I were to follow your lead, how do you account for the fact that some people have influenced events in life? I know of so many such issues. . . and we could broaden this to include even the paranormal experiences in our real world. What is really wrenching this idea is that the concepts are being narrowed to simplistic hypothesis, and that is so far removed from reality. Let me attend upon your example and show you what I mean:

Chrisbenogor:

So for instance if someone prays for financial help and someone gives him some money after some time it would be a total coincidence.

There are some issues that one may assume as "coincidence". But bros, if you have ever witnessed events more intricate than this, you would not be so inclined to assume that events could be written off on random basis.

In another thread, you confided in me that you had witnessed some 'charms' which produced certain results that are difficult to explain scientifically. I applaud that frankness; but then, would one assume that as a case of "random" occurences?

@pilgrim
One thing I will always be is honest, I am here to know how others see things. I know we are not dealing with reality, I too have anticipated some of your answers(and I was right on this one ) but lets not spill our carefully set up experiment now.
We said "if" everything were random it would mean no force are in control, do we agree with that? (loving conversing with you)

We can note this as point 1

Chrisbenogor:

@A_K_O
Seems I am sending the wrong message across. But I mean was the boy destined to die at the moment, I am not looking for reasons why he died that would not be possible to ascertain from the spiritual point of view, physically he was shot. Were the events that led up to his shooting ordered or random? Thats what I mean.      

Okay, but I dont believe that they were random. The events that led up to his shooting happened for a reason and that reason we may never know.

@Chrisbenogor,

Very sorry I logged out abruptly - had some very important guests arrive on me suddenly. Anyhow. . .

Chrisbenogor:

One thing I will always be is honest, I am here to know how others see things. I know we are not dealing with reality, I too have anticipated some of your answers(and I was right on this one )

That's cool to note. . . warms the conversation where we can accommodate and anticipate one another to some extent. And yes, you were right in anticipating me on this one (I may not be so generous in future, lol).

Chrisbenogor:

but lets not spill our carefully set up experiment now.
We said "if" everything were random it would mean no force are in control, do we agree with that?

By prognostication, I would agree tentatively with you on the above. . . so I could see a bit further down the road how you develop your thoughts.

@pilgrim
How are you this sunday morning, did you go to church?
Well to continue our discussion, like you correctly pointed out we know thats not what is obtainable in real life, for instance I am on my way to benin right now that is "ordered" in a sense because I made the choice and you begin to gather a sense that even an ordered event has a sense of randomness to it. Do you agree?

Hi Chrisbenogor,

I'm doing quite well this morning and have enjoyed the very early morning service. I hope to attend another in the evening to honour a friend's invitation. I hope you doing quite as well and enjoying your day.

It's been quite an interesting discussion, I agree. And again I agree tentatively that our experiences in the reality of life is comprised of both 'ordered' and 'random' indices or points of reference. Here it seems that the element of "choice" has been introduced. . . but let me pause for a while to allow you develop the thought further.

Glad you are doing well this morning, I think my last post says a lot I would like you to proceed with your own explanation of ordered events.