Following my many years of living amongst Christians, debating them, reading their literature and my, luckily,  brief incarnation (~5 years.  I don't really count the first 10 years of my life) as a Christian, I wish to attempt a brief characterisation of the various types of Christians I have encountered.

If you find any of this represents you, I would be much obliged if you could respond.  In fact, respond anyway about how you approach your Christian faith.

Here we go;

1)  The Simple Christian

These are characterised as the simple and well-meaning Christian who acquired their beliefs from their culture and have never questioned what they believe.  These types of Xians are usually ignorant of the core tenets of their beliefs and rely part or wholy on the religions leaders to direct aspects of the lives and beliefs.  They tend to accept everything from the religious elders without question and are thus open to exploitation.  The great majority of such Xians are illiterate or semi-illiterate and rarely or never read their holy books.

They tend to have high level of faith in their religion, almost unshakable, as they would have been little exposure to other ideological postions and they generally lack the cognitive skills to assess alternative positions.

You would find such Xians amongst all the myriads of Xian denominations - Catholics, Evangelicals,  Baptists, etc and typically characterised by that country-pumpkin attitude.  Since the level of literacy is low amongst such, you would find most of their in underdeveloped/privileged areas as in the African village communities amongst the ill-educated

2)  Basic or social Christian.

These are the slightly better educated Christian who are passionate about their belief but lack the individual industry to investigate it themselves. The have good reading and comprehension skills, but they would never read their bible unless there is an occasion (like church, prayer meeting, etc).  On such occasion, they get directed from verse to verse by the preacher and they just sit there and shake their heads and even take notes, or highlight (or underline) their bibles.  The minute they are out of the devotional environment, their level of commitment dimishes.

These sort of Christian would have been brought up in a loosely Christian environment and it would be taken for granted that their religion is right and true.  Their basic level of education means that they are amenable to other ideas and are thus easily enticeable to other Christian denominations.

As far as their religion is concerned, nothing but faith speaks to them.  Their basic educations mean they lack the cognitive skills to assess and relate other important fields of human endeavour.  The may have some basic science education but they would NOT have ingrained the principles of scientific and philosophical enquiry.  They tend to be highly manipulable and pliable in other areas of life.

These tend to be biblical literalists and would be in opposition to scientific developments either for want of understanding or for sheer ignorance.  They would not understand scientific concepts/theories such as The Theory of Evolution, Big Bang, etc.

In my experience, the vast majority of Christians would find themselves in this class.

3) Pseudo-sophisticated Christian.

This type of Christian is sheer blooded-mindedly stupid and a zealot, all at once. They are particularly industrous and diligent in their attachment to Christianity and would continue to be so even if the bones of Jesus were to be discovered today and it was proven 100% that these were Jesus's bones.  They do not care about the truth as much as their affiliation to a superstitious myth.  Their industry means that they would have spent time and money investigating the various criticisms of theism and christianity but because they are committed to their position are impervious to reason.  In fact, because of the sense of cognitive disonance they inevitably feel, they would tend to be even more zealous for their defunct ideas.  The operative word for these types is intellectual dishonesty.

They like to engage others, christians and non christians alike in debates and even if caught lying or in dishonesty will rarely back down.

Examples of such are Kent Hovind and many apologist here on Niaraland such as davidylan, pilgrim, Stimulus, Imhotep, etc, etc

Other characterisation to follow . . .

huxley:

They would not understand scientific concepts/theories such as The Theory of Evolution, Big Bang, etc.

perhaps because these theories are nothing but speculation. Create a big bang and produce amoeba first!

I am a Christian but not a born again Christian. However, I respect what other people want to believe in and seeing their religion as just as important as mines. i have attended different denominations but it doesn't mean that I converted to those faiths; it simply means that I was invited to attend, and did so. I feel that respecting other religions and philosophies means not only coexisting peacefully with them, but also learning about them firsthand, rather than relying upon rumors for information.

Peace

davidylan*:

perhaps because these theories are nothing but speculation. Create a big bang and produce amoeba first!

yeye man stop taking shots at the hadron collider, it would be back in action soon. inshah allah

I am a Christian but not a born again Christian.

are you trying to get into heaven by tricking God. you are not fooling the omnipresent one buddy.

bawomolo:

are you trying to get into heaven by tricking God. you are not fooling the omnipresent one buddy.

according to the Bible one must be a born again Christian to get to Heaven. . . .right? meanign I'll have to go down to the river and let them "duck" (babtize)me three times. Now I am only christian b/c of my believes.

Unlike some folks who baptized yet still continue to live their old lifestyle. Its call mockery of God.

I'll rather be true to myself in broad day light than to pretend I am a born again Christian but behind closed doors I am Satan in a blue dress

Peace

Cayon:

I am a Christian but not a born again Christian. However, I respect what other people want to believe in and seeing their religion as just as important as mines. i have attended different denominations but it doesn't mean that I converted to those faiths; it simply means that I was invited to attend, and did so. I feel that respecting other religions and philosophies means not only coexisting peacefully with them, but also learning about them firsthand, rather than relying upon rumors for information.

Peace

pardon me but all these pseudo-christians. Christ and the early disciples did not sit down seeking to "respect other religions" or trying to figure out how to "coexist peacefully" with them. Enough of all these moral hogwash that has no basis in the bible.

Cayon:

according to the Bible one must be a born again Christian to get to Heaven. . . .right? meanign I'll have to go down to the river and let them "duck" (babtize)me three times. Now I am only christian b/c of my believes.

have you read John 3:3 Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Now do you understand what it means to be born again? Its a lot more than just taking a bath in the river.

bawomolo:

yeye man stop taking shots at the hadron collider, it would be back in action soon. inshah allah

i cant wait for them to create life with that thing.

@Davidylan

We must humble ourselves to care for everyone and love everyone.
Everybody is somebody.

Peace

Cayon:

@Davidylan

We must humble ourselves to care for everyone and love everyone.
Everybody is somebody.

Peace

it is not our christian duty to "care for everyone". "Loving everyone" does not include accomodating/respecting other false religions and trying to "coexist peacefully" with unbelievers.
As a christian we are enjoined to live peaceably with all men but do not take it as license to excuse false doctrine. Christ lived peaceably with all men in His generation but He let no one be in doubt He would not condone the pharisees. See Paul when he got to the city where men used psychics to make money?

It is sad that we are now in a generation where in order ot "coexist peacefully" we can no longer differentiate between the christian and the unbeliever. Contrast that to the Acts of the apostles - Acts 17:6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also; 7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.

These men werent violent, they were humble and peaceful YET they made it clear where they stood even if it meant death, imprisonment and ostracism.

@davidylan

It has been said that a wise man learns from his mistakes; but a wiser man learns from the mistakes of others. One of the reasons that the Bible tells us of the failures, and not just the triumphs, of the men and women of faith, is that we are to recognize their mistakes, learn from them, and avoid them.

Peace

Cayon:

@davidylan

It has been said that a wise man learns from his mistakes; but a wiser man learns from the mistakes of others. One of the reasons that the Bible tells us of the failures, and not just the triumphs, of the men and women of faith, is that we are to recognize their mistakes, learn from them, and avoid them.

Peace

the bible never called the exploits of the early apostles "mistakes".
Infact what the bible warns us most of is the lukewarmness we see prevailing today. The desire by "christians" to "blend" in with everyone else in the name of "peaceful coexistence". Remember the parable of the leaven? Remember Christ's warning to the disciples on the leaven of the pharisees?

The problem is too many of us dont spend time asking - how did the early disciples live their lives and can i do likewise? To insinuate that Paul, Peter, John and co made mistakes is as laughable as it is dangerous.

Did the early apostles obey constituted authority? - Yes, even apostle Peter encourages that in his epistle and asks us to pray for our political leaders.
Did the early apostles live peacefully with their neighbours? - Yes, we see no case where they deliberately tried to disturb public peace.
Did they love their neighbours? - Sure.
Where they humble men? - Yes.

What was different? - They were not content to watch their neighbours go to hell all in the name of "respecting their religions/philosophies".

@davidylan

Jesus commands his followers to love God, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. It is a definite New Testament teaching that, in the eyes of God, hatred is equivalent to murder

1 John 4:20-If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

I can go on and on with you but I am sure like me you know by now that the Bible can be very contradicting - hence why christians are told NOT to argue about the bible.  why?  some of us may look like fools

Going to bed

Have a blessed night


Question:  you think idioms are in the bible?

mmmmmmmmmm

davidylan*:

Did the early apostles obey constituted authority? - Yes, even apostle Peter encourages that in his epistle and asks us to pray for our political leaders.
Did the early apostles live peacefully with their neighbours? - Yes, we see no case where they deliberately tried to disturb public peace.
Did they love their neighbours? - Sure.
Where they humble men? - Yes.

What was different? - They were not content to watch their neighbours go to hell all in the name of "respecting their religions/philosophies".

jesus(god) did non of these in the old testament he was violent. . . . . . . he killed, maimed, destroyed, tore down,ordered people to enslave, steal , looted , accepted people as scarifice and did so many henious crimes in the old testament. . . . . . . .

Cayon, the sad thing is you dont even take the time to read thru my own posts (while i read thru urs line by line to be sure i get your point) before posting. Frankly your last post completely had nothing to do with what you claim to be responding to or you just dont understand it. Unfortunately when you run into problems you resort to your tried and tested route of personal abuse . . . so much for being a christian.

@davidylan

Jesus commands his followers to love God, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. It is a definite New Testament teaching that, in the eyes of God, hatred is equivalent to murder

1 John 4:20-If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

I can go on and on with you but I am sure like me you know by now that the Bible can be very contradicting - hence why christians are told NOT to argue about the bible. why? some of us may look like fools

Look ma'am, i dont know whether you read your bible upside down but do you understand the contextual meanings of the scriptures you quoted?

1 John 4:20 for example talks of "loving your brother" . . . who is your brother? Pls read Christ's own definition of a "brother" first before you just post anything simply because it contains the word "love".

Jesus commands us to love our neighbors . . . no one is arguing that with you. Based on that would we accuse Paul, Peter, James and John of hating their neighbours?

Jesus Christ called the pharisees a whitened sepulchre and threw over the table of the money changers . . . was it out of hate? John the baptist called the unbelievers a generation of vipers . . . did he hate them? Paul gave over hymenaeus and his friend (former church members!) over to satan for blasphemy . . . was it out of hate for his neighbour?

The bible says to "love our neighbours and enemies", the same bible says to "come out and be ye separate". Can you reconcile the two?

Here is the problem . . . as a christian we have no business "respecting false doctrine/philosophies" in the name of love. We are enjoined to speak the gospel to our neighbours (that actually is what the bible means by LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOUR) not seeking ways to "coexist peacefully". How can you coexist peacefully with ur unsaved neighbour knowing the same bible says THERE IS NO PEACE TO THE WICKED?

Do you people ever read the bible and understand what it says at all?

Question: you think idioms are in the bible?

The bible says Christ came not to bring peace but to bring a sword . . . do u understand it?

davidylan*:

perhaps because these theories are nothing but speculation. Create a big bang and produce amoeba first!

David is correct that unlike physics, biology is yet to find a convincing argument for the advent of life. But it's all in the works; this, of course, does no injury to the fact of evolution.
.

@david:

Please point out to me where I resort to personal abuse. 

What i realized about you is that you cannot respect others opinion.  You feel that when you write your crap one must not challege you b/c you think you are always right?  Say it aint so. . Maybe where you come from Women not to argue back with you  - but let me tell you this sugar, where i come from is equal rights and justice    

You know why we fight over religion?  because everyone think their religion is right.  You refer to someone else as false religion, someone may think your religion is false.  Tell me, how can anyone justify their religion as right? But before you answer let me remind you that all the major world religions are based on holy books, "supposedly" from God.

I can quote my scripture as proof Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. But of course someone else can quote another scripture of their holy book.

If I had to speak my mind i can boldly say that Catholic (who bow to statues) , jehovah witnesses who say nothing is wrong with drinking alchohol, SDA who still lives under the law are not followers of Jesus teachings.  But who am i to judge? And who are you to Judge?

Answer me this Question:  Why there are so many Christian denominations?

Is it b/c  they differ on doctrines and traditions?  Isn it the same  exact stuff Christ warned us not to involve ourselves?

not everyone who cries 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the gates of heaven. ,
. . .well my guests left so let me go clean up and hit my lodging again

Peace

Cayon:

Tell me, how can anyone justify their religion as right? But before you answer let me remind you that all the major world religions are based on holy books, "supposedly" from God.

Answer me this Question: Why there are so many Christian denominations?

Ah thanks. finally its obvious i wasnt even talking to a born again christian grounded in her faith. Pls apologies for making that mistake.

Cayon:

not everyone who cries 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the gates of heaven. ,
. . .well my guests left so let me go clean up and hit my lodging again

Peace

the unfortunate thing is you just might have described urself here.

There is no

davidylan*:

Ah thanks. finally its obvious i wasnt even talking to a born again christian grounded in her faith. please apologies for making that mistake.

Didn't I make that clear in my first email (i am not a born again christian) or as usual you just like to jump all ovah me without reading first.  and if i didn't believe in JC or the bible I wouldn't be here wasting my time with you.

Now, stop dodging my questions.  I am going to prove to you that you are quoting scriptures without any understanding.  My questions to you again

Why there are so many Christian denominations?

Tell me, how can anyone justify their religion as right?

And please don't come preaching to me or quoting scriptures.  JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

Thanking you in advance 

Cayon:

There is noDidn't I make that clear in my first email (i am not a born again christian) or as usual you just like to jump all ovah me without reading first.  and if i didn't believe in[b] JC [/b] or the bible I wouldn't be here wasting my time with you.

Now, stop dodging my questions.  I am going to prove to you that you are quoting scriptures without any understanding.  My questions to you again

Why there are so many Christian denominations?

Tell me, how can anyone justify their religion as right?

And please don't come preaching to me or quoting scriptures.  JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

Thanking you in advance 

John 3.

Your questions are yours to answer . . . if you don't believe your "religion" is right please by all means find something else.

What is even more amazing is the number of decietful people who claim to be "christians" stomping around claiming to be "asking questions". I find it interesting that you claim to understand the scriptures and yet dont seem to understand the significance of the gospel of John.

Indeed let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. Of them did the bible say - Matt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

They can mouth the generic christian platitudes of "love, peace" . . . but deep down they have no Spirit in them. Dont waste time asking me questions, quite evidently you need to search your own soul. Better to be an outright sinner than to be a pretentious cherry-picking "christian".

Jesus Christ (not JC) said - John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

If you're not sure your "religious badge of hypocrisy" is right then Christ must have been lying in John 14:6.

Religion is a bit like being a supporter of a football team, many teams with different ideas on how the game should be played.

Everybody thinks their team is the best and despise the other teams.

Thor:

Religion is a bit like being a supporter of a football team, many teams with different ideas on how the game should be played.

Everybody thinks their team is the best and despise the other teams.

that analogy is for those who really dont stand for anything.
For genuine born again christians . . . a Christ-like life is their very existence. To them religion is not a badge to be displayed.

3) Pseudo-sophisticated Christian.

This type of Christian is sheer blooded-mindedly stupid and a zealot, all at once. They are particularly industrous and diligent in their attachment to Christianity and would continue to be so even if the bones of Jesus were to be discovered today and it was proven 100% that these were Jesus's bones. They do not care about the truth as much as their affiliation to a superstitious myth. Their industry means that they would have spent time and money investigating the various criticisms of theism and christianity but because they are committed to their position are impervious to reason. In fact, because of the sense of cognitive disonance they inevitably feel, they would tend to be even more zealous for their defunct ideas. The operative word for these types is intellectual dishonesty.

They like to engage others, christians and non christians alike in debates and even if caught lying or in dishonesty will rarely back down.

Examples of such are Kent Hovind and many apologist here on Niaraland such as . . .

What does that actually mean to be born again? Does that mean that you shrink and crawl back up the vaginal passage and slide down again?

Religion keeps idiotic people in line  

huxley:

3) Pseudo-sophisticated Christian.

This type of Christian is sheer blooded-mindedly stupid and a zealot, all at once. They are particularly industrous and diligent in their attachment to Christianity and would continue to be so even if the bones of Jesus were to be discovered today and it was proven 100% that these were Jesus's bones. They do not care about the truth as much as their affiliation to a superstitious myth. Their industry means that they would have spent time and money investigating the various criticisms of theism and christianity but because they are committed to their position are impervious to reason. In fact, because of the sense of cognitive disonance they inevitably feel, they would tend to be even more zealous for their defunct ideas. The operative word for these types is intellectual dishonesty.

They like to engage others, christians and non christians alike in debates and even if caught lying or in dishonesty will rarely back down.

Examples of such are Kent Hovind and many apologist here on Niaraland such as . . .

Amazing how many people think they have a capacity to reason by virtue of being athiest. These same people would rather indulge in false fantasies of a big bang theory than believe a God could possibly exist. Talk of being impervious to reason.

Huxley, too bad but its more than obvious that a lot of people have moved beyond your irresponsible baiting.  

Thor:

What does that actually mean to be boen again? Does that mean that you shrink and crawl back up the vaginal passage and slide down again?

Religion keeps idiotic people in line

If you ever read John 3 before calling us idiots you'll realise that Nicodemus had put forward this same disbelief 2000 yrs ago. Go read Christ's answer.
Thank you.

davidylan*:

Amazing how many people think they have a capacity to reason by virtue of being athiest. These same people would rather indulge in false fantasies of a big bang theory than believe a God could possibly exist. Talk of being impervious to reason.

Huxley, too bad but its more than obvious that a lot of people have moved beyond your irresponsible baiting.

Am glad you see yourself in this characterisation. In fact, I had you in mind as well as I wrote this one. Lets examine some of the reasons why I think you would fit this description.

1) When challenge to explain and describe what scientist call Big Bang, you deliberately and dishonestly misrepresent. It is not that you cannot learn or find the correct description. You are more worried about the sense of disonance it would cause you, so it pays you to misrepresent. Can you show us that this is wrong? If you were a truly honest and learned man, you would reach out for the best scientific explanation for Big Bang. But as dishonest as you are, you dare not. Hahahahha

From the urban dictionary:

Born again Christianity

A fail-safe term use, incase there is a heaven.

-Someone who is experiencing hard times, who is willing to accept anything to save them from dispair, even to go as low as christianity.
-About as difficult as writing your name down on a peice of paper


Tom: Hey Mark, I became a born again christian!!!
Mark: Wow man, I can relate, today I was able to bounce a ball of the wall and catch it!

huxley:

Am glad you see yourself in this characterisation. In fact, I had you in mind as well as I wrote this one. Lets examine some of the reasons why I think you would fit this description.

I wasnt born last week, as soon as i saw the title of the thread i knew where you were going. Too bad you prefered to dishonestly dance around pretending to be impartially trying to understand the average christian. No one will ban you or remove your thread if you just come out and say what you've got to say.

huxley:

1) When challenge to explain and describe what scientist call Big Bang, you deliberately and dishonestly misrepresent. It is not that you cannot learn or find the correct description. You are more worried about the sense of disonance it would cause you, so it pays you to misrepresent. Can you show us that this is wrong? If you were a truly honest and learned man, you would reach out for the best scientific explanation for Big Bang. But as dishonest as you are, you dare not. Hahahahha

That is the stupidity that most atheists don't even realise in their own position. What if i said the exact same thing but in this fashion - if you were a truly honest and learned man, you would reach out for the best rational explanation for the existence of God.

Nah i don't expect you'll notice the musical chairs you're playing. When it comes to christianity you want just ONE one-size fits all explanation, when it comes to science however you're ready to swallow specious theories, improbable speculation and unreasonable attempts at rationalising a lack of understanding . . . all the while pretending it makes you "learned".

If you seek conclusive proof that God exists, i'd expect you'd be able to provide conclusive proof too that rather than the notion of creation, the big bang was responsible for the existence of life. Up till now you're just grasping at straws.

You need to further understand the meaning of the word "honesty".

Thor:

From the urban dictionary:

Born again Christianity

A fail-safe term use, incase there is a heaven.

-Someone who is experiencing hard times, who is willing to accept anything to save them from dispair, even to go as low as christianity.
-About as difficult as writing your name down on a peice of paper


Tom: Hey Mark, I became a born again christian!!!
Mark: Wow man, I can relate, today I was able to bounce a ball of the wall and catch it!

Is this man for real? Using an urban dictionary to explain a concept that came into play 2000yrs ago when there was no urban dictionary? A term you could easily understand if you merely flipped through the pages of the bible?

Let me show you that your question is coming 2000yrs too late - John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

What really is new in your position?

davidylan*:

I wasnt born last week, as soon as i saw the title of the thread i knew where you were going. Too bad you prefered to dishonestly dance around pretending to be impartially trying to understand the average christian. No one will ban you or remove your thread if you just come out and say what you've got to say.

That is the stupidity that most atheists don't even realise in their own position. What if i said the exact same thing but in this fashion - if you were a truly honest and learned man, you would reach out for the best rational explanation for the existence of God.

Nah i don't expect you'll notice the musical chairs you're playing. When it comes to christianity you want just ONE one-size fits all explanation, when it comes to science however you're ready to swallow specious theories, improbable speculation and unreasonable attempts at rationalising a lack of understanding . . . all the while pretending it makes you "learned".

If you seek conclusive proof that God exists, i'D expect you'D be able to provide conclusive proof too that rather than the notion of creation, the big bang was responsible for the existence of life. Up till now you're just grasping at straws.

You need to further understand the meaning of the word "honesty".

The key question is "Why do you misrepresent concepts you think are critical of you religious position? The honest man would not adopt this approach, but this has been your tactic all along. You misrepresent theories like Big Bang, evolution, etc, etc, because somehow you think they hurt your position.

On the other hand, I have asked umpteen times "what the principal doctrine of Christianity is" and not surprisingly I get no answer from you. So do not criticise me (and other atheist) for misrepresenting your position. You fail to define your position and our knowledge of you position derives from our previous experience as Christians or from the various documents that describe Christianity.

So, now, once and for all - tell us what Christianity is, a honest man as you are. Do you want me to resurrect the threads I had raised about this subject?

The concept of honesty applies to all behaviors. One cannot refuse to consider factual information, for example, and still claim that one's knowledge, belief, or position is an attempt to be truthful or is held in "good faith." Such willful blindness is clearly a product of one's desires and simply has nothing to do with the human ability to know. Basing one's positions on what one wants — rather than unbiased evidence gathering — is dishonest even when good intentions can be cited — after all even villains could cite good intentions and intended glory for a select group of people. Clearly then, an unbiased approach to the truth is a requirement of honesty

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