Baku. Rashad Suleymanov – APA .
Representatives of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) stated that they will ruin the Kaaba after capturing Saudi Arabia.

APA reports quoting Turkish media that ISIS wants to take
control of Arar city of Saudi Arabia and start operations here.

ISIS member Abu Turab Al Mugaddasi said that they would destroy the Kaaba in Mecca: “If Allah wills, we will kill those who worship stones in Mecca and destroy the Kaaba. People go to Mecca to touch the stones, not for Allah.”

GogetterMD: No source?

cloudstar: If kissing stone that was worshiped by 7th century Arabians is not idolatry then I do not know what is. Many Muslims claim they worship one God and they are Monotheist yet they travel at least one time in their life time and possibly spend their entire life savings to enrich Saudi Arabians who are already well off to to kiss the Kabbah and pay it homage. Wasn't that what the arab pagans did before Islam? If you guys are still doing it today, what is the difference between Allah then and the Allah now?

Is Allah in the Kabbah?

cloudstar: If kissing stone that was worshiped by 7th century Arabians is not idolatry then I do not know what is. Many Muslims claim they worship one God and they are Monotheist yet they travel at least one time in their life time and possibly spend their entire life savings to enrich Saudi Arabians who are already well off to to kiss the Kabbah and pay it homage. Wasn't that what the arab pagans did before Islam? If you guys are still doing it today, what is the difference between Allah then and the Allah now?

Is Allah in the Kabbah?

tunde1200: ISIS is it a terorist group or what!?
And what is there motion on saudi!?

cloudstar: If kissing stone that was worshiped by 7th century Arabians is not idolatry then I do not know what is. Many Muslims claim they worship one God and they are Monotheist yet they travel at least one time in their life time and possibly spend their entire life savings to enrich Saudi Arabians who are already well off to to kiss the Kabbah and pay it homage. Wasn't that what the arab pagans did before Islam? If you guys are still doing it today, what is the difference between Allah then and the Allah now?

Is Allah in the Kabbah?

lanrexlan: Just hoping you won't commit suicide or drink otapiapia one day because of Islam.
I hope so.

cloudstar: If kissing stone that was worshiped by 7th century Arabians is not idolatry then I do not know what is. Many Muslims claim they worship one God and they are Monotheist yet they travel at least one time in their life time and possibly spend their entire life savings to enrich Saudi Arabians who are already well off to to kiss the Kabbah and pay it homage. Wasn't that what the arab pagans did before Islam? If you guys are still doing it today, what is the difference between Allah then and the Allah now?

Is Allah in the Kabbah?

so dat should make some1 go to kill abi. Some of u christians dat use oil or cross or hymbooks or those who clap and dance madly and ostensibly like david and those who only stay in thier sit and do not clap or dance, or those dat burn insence or drink and sprinkle holy water or those dat do assignment or those who go to jerusalem to see many places and touch and bring bak so many objects for d much aclaimed divine connection do u go to war when others dont worship in yur own method?

System of worship is ceremonial and is not d means of acceptance by d true God.. If u touch a stone or rub olive oil it may not necesarily mean u are worshiping those objects and no sane man would kill or hate another becos he is different from them.

This killins and rancour over religion and methods should be wholely discouraged where ever it is perrceived! Saudi arabia is one of d most decent countries in d world and they welcome improvement in human life and are moving fast in education for d liberation of d mind.

God's children suffer for lack of knowledge both in islam n xtianity.

The perpetrators of these acts are those wid narrowminds and are mostly ignorant and psycologically impeded. Any religion be it xtianity,islam or bhudism will continue to lose followers and gain universal condemnation due to a few unscroupulous elements widin them whose actions are hardly condemned by the majority of such religion-unknown to them they wil someday turn against thier own home in dat same spirit used against others.

Why must u fight others in d first place? And when u see u are loosing u turn against yur own selves for final combat and self anihilation? A mad man(mentally challenged) is often d last one to know there is somthin wrong wid him dat he needs help. They will not stop, dis is for sure, they will fight and bomb but they will never win and take over kabbah, let alone saudi arabia. Extremists!!! All those who kill will be judged, i believe worst than others. God is not dumb dat if i wink at som1 who misbehaves or try to convince him he is wrong and go my way He(God)will punish me equally wid a man who actually kills all those he presumes to be misbehaving! If killing is so sweet and legal God has d power to do it better than man! But God has given us this freedom to do as we wish till judgement day.

Apatheist:
You are a Wahabbist?

Al-Baqir:


Really the biggest problem with you in conversation is the fact that you are faceless with no identity to stand for or recognized.

Not christian Not Muslim Not Jew Not Atheist. Indeed you are "Cloud" star. Only when you have identity will you be "bright or visible" star.

Besides, just curious. What is worship in your own understanding?
And how does kissing, touching and embracing a symbolic stone constitute to "worshiping it" vis-a-vis idolatory?

cloudstar:

Nope, I am not

cloudstar:

The question should be - what is worship in Islam? After that, please explain in detail what a Muslim does when he/she visits Meccah or perform the Hajj?

cloudstar: nairalife2013



Where in my post did you see anywhere I suggested violence or killing of any kind? Abeg, stick to the topic! Try as hard as you may, there are no laws in the Bible that encourages any Christian to visit Bethlehem or worship any image, stone or statue of any kind. Idolatry is one of the main reasons God punished Israel several times.

Muslims claim they are Monotheist, they claim they worship one God and no other. Also, the idea of Allah confined in a stone is an unforgivable sin in Islam call sirk. So, my question is simple - If Allah is not in the Kabbah and He didn't tell you to worship it - why do you guys go there and kiss it and venerate it? So, please answer my question before you go off point and start talking about Christians. Christians are not allowed in Saudi Arabia in the first place. Be objective and provide a straight forward answer.



Again, I have not encouraged or mentioned anything about violence or killings. I forbid violence or the killing or anyone based on their beliefs or "mode of worship". So, if you decide to worship a stone, that is your cup of tea; just don't throw it at others. Regarding the system or mode of worship, I think you are been dishonest. Muslims claim that they are the only ones that truly perform the act of worship because they prostrate in the direction of Meccah. So, the ceremonial form or the system of worship is to prostrate and not to KISS A STONE . There is no where in the Quran it tells you to kiss the Kabbah in Meccah. This was an act that was performed by 7th century pagan Arabians. Except of course you are a polytheist.



Again, I never mentioned killing or violence or anything of that sort. Saudi Arabia is a theocracy based on Sharia. To you that may be decent but to me, I will not stay there even if you paid me. It doesn't encourage free speech, it marginalizes minorities such as Shias. It has one of the worst cases of human abuse and women abuse to name a few.



True but this is not related to Christianity. Please be objective here. To get one thing clear - the God in Christianity and Islam are too different beings, so it is important that we don't get it twisted.



Get your facts straight - Buddhism is not a religion. The issue here is that the "elements" you are talking about are almost always Muslims. Now, I am not saying that there are no bad eggs in other religion nor am I saying Islam is the only factor if violence in the world. I am saying that there is an interpretation problem in Islam. What makes one Muslim radical and another moderate. How can two muslims read the same passage and one interpret it differently than the other? The issue becomes very volatile when that has to do with violence and killing.

Look at the disgrace that is going on between Sunnis and Shittes. Look at the killings in Syria, Iraq, Yemen and a host of other Islamic territories. If it's not Boko Haram, it is ISIS. If that is not enough, it is Hamas or Al-Queda. Una no dey tire?



All well said and done but what makes them extremist - why is it only MUSLIMS that are tempted to be extremist? Why can't Buddhist monks become extremist, why can't Catholic nuns become extremist?

from your well lettered post, i suppose u are educated, that should therefor liberate yur mind and giv yur reasoning and comprehesion of societal values an edge... U dont hav to say "go and fight and kill" literally before u inspire violence. U brew up violence atimes by supporting issues dat may inspire violencce, either ignorantly or knowingly. U whip up sentiment by leaning (in dis case) to d personal beliefs of certain individuals while quoting d holybooks wrongly

at 32 wid a wife and two kids, i have a responsibilty in my household and in d outside world to always say d right thing or remain silent, God never said u must worship Him in a particular place.

If u chose to go to kabbah or jerusalem or europe or america or África to worship Him so be it; if u chose to kiss d church or d mosque or ornaments thereabouts so be it.

who told u these people worship these things in place of allah or jesus. To venerate a person or thing is very difrent from to worship same.

D isrealites outrightly disowned d true God of thier fathers in prefarence to idols. Dis is an isolated case isnt it? When u pray always ask God to bless u wid simplicity of d soul, wid dat u can discern His ways and conquer yur mind. Dis is d shortcut, according to asham, from long wandering. Make same suplication for all men. Other points raised in yur post are apparently irrelevant. Thanks tho for corr on bhudism and s.arabian rigid laws

Al-Baqir:


Be a gentleman cloudstar. Answer my questions first afterall I was the first that throw those questions to you.

cloudstar: nairalife2013



Read my post again and AGAIN. There was no where I alluded, inferred or reference violence in anyway and at anytime. So, you have no point here



You must be clear on the God you are referring to. I have stated that the God as described in the Bible and the God in the Quran are two different beings. The Biblical God instruction of worship is simple: God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. The instruction here is direct - in Spirit and in truth. God didn't ask Christian to go to Jerusalem or to Rome or to anywhere else for that matter. The Islamic God made the Pilgrimage (hajj) to Mecca for those who are able as part of the 5 pillars of Islam. It is a requirement. The question you should ask if what happens at the Hajj. If you can describe the event i.e. the circling of the Kabbah, kissing of the sacred stone and the other religious rituals - it will be easy for us to determine if it's worship or not. Besides, Allah is not in the Kabbah so I don't see why millions of muslims will shave their hair, circle the kabbah several times, dress in white and kiss a stone if it was required by Allah.



Unfortunately for you, your description of the practice can't simply be answered with "So be it". The difference is that Muslims are told to go to the Kabbah explicitly. Christianity doesn't have such practices - I have already made that clear.



Jesus has nothing to do with this matter. This is an issue with millions of Muslims performing the Hajj. Let me give you a summary of what happens at the hajj - I am not doing it because you do not know, I am doing it so that you don't play pretend and try and define the Hajj as veneration. The Hajj is composed of:

1. Putting on the ihram
2. Entering the Haram
3. Proceeding to Mina
4. Standing on the Plain of 'Arafat (obligatory)
5. The Three Pillars
6. The Sacrifice Ritual
7. Taking off the ihram
8. Making the Tawaf (obligatory): At the Sacred Mosque that encloses the Ka'ba (cube), the pilgrim positions himself or herself in front of the Black Stone (Hajar al-Aswad). From that position, he or she circumambulates the Ka'ba seven times, all the time reciting prayers.
9. Kissing the Hajar al-Aswad: While circling the Ka'ba, following the example of the Prophet, the pilgrim tries to get close to the Black Stone and, if possible, touch or kiss it. After the tawaf is complete, the pilgrim goes to the Place of Abraham, i.e., the place where Abraham stood and worshiped God.
10. Making the Sa'y

Please review steps 8 and 9. If you are honest and objective - there is no way in the world, you will claim a ritual of circling the Kabbah 7 times and kissing the stone is merely 'veneration'. This is the same practice that pagan Arabs did when they worshiped their 360 idols and allah being one of them.



I am not doubting that you are honest before your God and wish to be a better person and raise your kids with good morals and help others. My point is you are either dis-missing your religious teachings (if you are a muslim) or you are not been honest.

cloudstar:

Worship is to show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites. It can be expressed in many ways but usually worship involves an act.

Al-Baqir:


Thanks I appreciate that. It is not far from Islamic definition of "worship".

In explaining the verse :
"I do not create man and Jinn but to worship Me"

Muhammad Asad writes on the meaning of Ibadaat (worship):
"Thus, the innermost purpose of the creation of all rational beings is their cognition of the existence of Allah and, hence, their conscious willingness to conform their own existence to whatever they may perceive of His will and plan: and it is this twofold concept of cognition and willingness that gives the deepest meaning to what the Quran describes as "worship". As the next verse shows, this spiritual call does not arise from any supposed "need" on the part of the Creator, who is self-sufficient and infinite in His power, but is designed as an instrument for the inner development of the worshiper, who, by the act of his conscious self-surrender to the all-pervading Creative Will, may hope to come closer to an understanding of that Will and, thus closer to Allah Himself“

So how does kissing and touching the "black-stone" constitute to "worshiping it"?

so if allah or d holly prophet asked his followers to kiss d kabbah it is a law and do all those things u pointed out itz a law.

So if god asked moses or d isrealites to cross d red sea melt thier golds for sacrifice itz a law?

So if budha whispers to his followers to carryout holy progression itz a law?

So if Jesus asked peter to walk on d sea or eat d last supper or if He himself used oil or sand to cure an ailment d action becomes a law?

D holy books are commprehended only by divine common sense. Itz not by might else u follow HIM blindly to an imminent inner mind chaos, war wid your self or fellow human and d resultant altimate death. God help us all.

AlBaqir:

Thanks I appreciate that. It is not far from Islamic definition of "worship".

In explaining the verse :
"I do not create man and Jinn but to worship Me"

Muhammad Asad writes on the meaning of Ibadaat (worship):
"Thus, the innermost purpose of the creation of all rational beings is their cognition of the existence of Allah and, hence, their conscious willingness to conform their own existence to whatever they may perceive of His will and plan: and it is this twofold concept of cognition and willingness that gives the deepest meaning to what the Quran describes as "worship". As the next verse shows, this spiritual call does not arise from any supposed "need" on the part of the Creator, who is self-sufficient and infinite in His power, but is designed as an instrument for the inner development of the worshiper, who, by the act of his conscious self-surrender to the all-pervading Creative Will, may hope to come closer to an understanding of that Will and, thus closer to Allah Himself“

So how does kissing and touching the "black-stone" constitute to "worshiping it"?

cloudstar: nairalife2013



Mohammad is not Allah, Mohammad is a man. Mohammad was the same person that encouraged the worship of Allah daughters to win favor with his tribe but later changed his mind. So, Allah is supposedly supreme and not Mohammad. Can you show me in the Quran where Allah tells Muslims to kiss the Kabbah and circle around it 7 times?



Crossing the red sea is not a ritual/veneration or worship of any object. Also, it wasn't God that told Israelite to melt their gold and silver; it was Aaron - please get your facts straight. Again, the issue is Muslims circling around an object 7 times and kissing it. Can you show us in the Quran where Allah instructs Muslims to do this?



Buddah has nothing to do with the kissing the Kabbah and circling around it.



Again, you are side-stepping from the question. The last supper and the instruction to walk on water has nothing to do with kissing a stone or circling around it 7 times. Those are pagan rituals and worship that Arabians performed many years before Mohammad came on the scene.



This is not an issue of Holy Books Bros. This is a simple question that you are ignoring and have so far stylishly refused to provide an answer. My question is simple:

1. If Allah is the only object of veneration, worship and respect in Islam - why do Muslims circle around a stone in Mecca and kiss it. Is Allah in the Kabbah?
2. Did Allah instruct this in the Quran?

how many times must I tell u kissing d kabbah is just a choice?

It has nothing to do wid worship. I hav said dis several times but u chose to ignore it.

Yur other questions and instances are irrelevant cos one: u contradict yur own self, two: u do not see dat d Quran doesn't instruct u on d choice of personal behavior as to all u do and where u must worship. It beats me to know u think like this. U could really cause disaffection out of nothing. This is how it starts. I knew your mindset from when u insisted on d difference between the God of Christians and those of the moslems. Let me tell u, u will not succeed in this. And those who think and behave like u will always be the few. But God will help u and us all.