₦airaland Forum

Welcome, Guest: Join Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 2,280,592 members, 4,999,348 topics. Date: Tuesday, 25 June 2019 at 01:16 AM

God's Omniscience. God's Problem. - Religion - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / God's Omniscience. God's Problem. (2053 Views)

Omniscience And Freewill / Omniscience And Freewill / Omnicient/omniscience/omnipotent/omnipresent (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (Reply) (Go Down)

God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by Reiyvinn(m): 7:20pm On Jul 10, 2014
For centuries Theists have struggled to reconcile the attributes (Omniscience, Omnipotence, e.t.c) which are commonly ascribed to God, whom they regard as the Almighty Creator of the Universe. However, noting the conflicts between each attributes and the problems they pose, Theists are left between the dilemmas of either reducing one attribute for the other or accepting the contradictions of both unquestionably as one of the features of The Vague God.

Without making mention of the injury these attributes give to the existence of God (which is being discussed HERE in summarized details), there is a major part of every religion that does no justice to God's Omniscience and, though being ignored or overlooked, deals a big blow to right-thinking minds that possess the power of reason:

WHY DO WE PRAY?

According to religious Books (at least, the ones I know), it is an agreed belief that the Omniscient God has a Purpose and Plan for every life on earth, and from the Bible, "God does not lie and cannot change his mind." (Numbers 23:13).

The question is "Why Do We Pray?"

God has a plan and purpose for you, right?

God cannot change his mind, right?

What then do we expect from God when we pray?

Do you pray to an All-Knowing God to "REMIND" him of your needs? (But Christ said he "knows your need before you ask" Matthew 6:6-7)

Is it just an act of devotion? (Cool. But Oops, devotion or no devotion, how does that affect his Plan and Purpose for you?)

If your death is meant to be today and then you pray to God to avert every possible death for you that day, what are you telling God to do? To "change his mind"?

Look, what I'm saying in essense is this:

If God is Omniscient as you believe, every prayer to Him regarding your needs undermines his nature and are futile since he already has an ungoing plan that even your prayers can't change. (I'm not talking about praise, thanksgiving and blah blah blah, I'm talking about prayer for favour from God.)

I may be wrong quite alright but I want y'all to let your brains work on this a little bit before coming to bash me.

Thanks

5 Likes

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by advocate666: 7:44pm On Jul 10, 2014
god is anything you want him to be. try it. it works everytime.

2 Likes

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by Reiyvinn(m): 8:14pm On Jul 10, 2014
advocate666: god is anything you want him to be. try it. it works everytime.

same with other imaginary inventions.

3 Likes

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by LordReed(m): 5:53am On Jul 11, 2014
Reiyvinn: For centuries Theists have struggled to reconcile the attributes (Omniscience, Omnipotence, e.t.c) which are commonly ascribed to God, whom they regard as the Almighty Creator of the Universe. However, noting the conflicts between each attributes and the problems they pose, Theists are left between the dilemmas of either reducing one attribute for the other or accepting the contradictions of both unquestionably as one of the features of The Vague God.

Without making mention of the injury these attributes give to the existence of God (which is being discussed HERE in summarized details), there is a major part of every religion that does no justice to God's Omniscience and, though being ignored or overlooked, deals a big blow to right-thinking minds that possess the power of reason:

WHY DO WE PRAY?

According to religious Books (at least, the ones I know), it is an agreed belief that the Omniscient God has a Purpose and Plan for every life on earth, and from the Bible, "God does not lie and cannot change his mind." (Numbers 23:13).

The question is "Why Do We Pray?"

God has a plan and purpose for you, right?

God cannot change his mind, right?

What then do we expect from God when we pray?

Do you pray to an All-Knowing God to "REMIND" him of your needs? (But Christ said he "knows your need before you ask" Matthew 6:6-7)

Is it just an act of devotion? (Cool. But Oops, devotion or no devotion, how does that affect his Plan and Purpose for you?)

If your death is meant to be today and then you pray to God to avert every possible death for you that day, what are you telling God to do? To "change his mind"?

Look, what I'm saying in essense is this:

If God is Omniscient as you believe, every prayer to Him regarding your needs undermines his nature and are futile since he already has an ungoing plan that even your prayers can't change. (I'm not talking about praise, thanksgiving and blah blah blah, I'm talking about prayer for favour from God.)

I may be wrong quite alright but I want y'all to let your brains work on this a little bit before coming to bash me.

Thanks

Matthew 6 v30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat? ’ or ‘What shall we drink? ’ or ‘What shall we wear? ’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. (ESV)

1 Like

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by mmsen: 7:30am On Jul 11, 2014
Prayer is the act of a restless mind.

1 Like

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by pesty100(m): 1:08pm On Jul 11, 2014
LordReed:

Matthew 6 v30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat? ’ or ‘What shall we drink? ’ or ‘What shall we wear? ’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. (ESV)
in one word we shouldn't ask anything from God abi?
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by LordReed(m): 1:12pm On Jul 11, 2014
pesty100: in one woraäd we should ask anything from God abi?

That wasn't one word LoL. I have two words don't worry.
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by mployer(m): 2:13pm On Jul 11, 2014
mmsen: Prayer is the act of a restless mind.
Prayer is the antidote to a restless mind.

1 Like

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by mployer(m): 2:24pm On Jul 11, 2014
God has a plan for you, it is called the will of God for you.
Prayer is an act of communing with God to remain within his will. It is not always a time to ask for favour.Again obtaining favour from God is part of His will for His children, asking for a favour is therefore a part of aligning with the will of God
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by Weah96: 3:15pm On Jul 11, 2014
mployer:
Prayer is an act of communing with God to remain within his will.

Do you realize how awkward this sounds? I don't even know where to begin.

3 Likes

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by mployer(m): 3:18pm On Jul 11, 2014
Weah96:

Do you realize how awkward this sounds? I don't even know where to begin.
It doesn't. God has a will for you but gives you the freedom to chose or leave it.
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by mmsen: 3:22pm On Jul 11, 2014
mployer:
Prayer is the antidote to a restless mind.

If talking to oneself is the first sign of madness then how crazy must one be to talk to an imaginary friend?

6 Likes

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by LordReed(m): 3:33pm On Jul 11, 2014
mmsen:

If talking to oneself is the first sign of madness then how crazy must one be to talk to an imaginary friend?

People speak to themselves all the time, some to encourage themselves, others as a form assessment of a situation or goal. This is by no means a measure of insanity or else we are all mad. Singling out prayer for special reference is illogical.
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by plaetton: 3:39pm On Jul 11, 2014
mployer:
Prayer is the antidote to a restless mind.

Prayer is the refill or the recharge card for a depleting faith of an anxious and fearful mind.
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by submit: 3:45pm On Jul 11, 2014
mployer: God has a plan for you, it is called the will of God for you.
Prayer is an act of communing with God to remain within his will. It is not always a time to ask for favour.Again obtaining favour from God is part of His will for His children, asking for a favour is therefore a part of aligning with the will of God
was it the same plan he originally had by creating adam,allowing him to sin, then blaming him for it. You spew trash.
Just a question, since you claim to pray to align yourself with the will of god, how many of your prayers get answered?
Assuming you were competing with a fellow christain for a job, does him getting the job means your prayer wasnt to the will of god?
A pregnant woman was in the labour room for 12 hours, her church was praying for her, the medical team was trying their best. She giving birth to a baby who died 5mins later says everybody wasnt praying to god will ba?

I know what your best reply would be.

3 Likes

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by plaetton: 3:45pm On Jul 11, 2014
mployer: God has a plan for you, it is called the will of God for you.
Prayer is an act of communing with God to remain within his will. It is not always a time to ask for favour. Again obtaining favour from God is part of His will for His children, asking for a favour is therefore a part of aligning with the will of God

Meaningless and contradictory nonsense.

If god has a plan for you, then prayer shows a lack of faith in either the existence of god , or the certainty of his plans for you.

If one believes that god certainly exists, that he certainly loves you and has certain plans for you(good or bad), then prayer is redundant and superfluous.

If a perfect god created a perfect universe, then There should be No Room For A Complainer or Petitioner In God's Perfect Universe.

8 Likes

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by plaetton: 3:48pm On Jul 11, 2014
LordReed:

People speak to themselves all the time, some to encourage themselves, others as a form assessment of a situation or goal. This is by no means a measure of insanity or else we are all mad. Singling out prayer for special reference is illogical.

I do think it is much saner to talk to myself, which I do all the time, than to talk to and petition an imaginary god whose purpose and will are immutable.

1 Like

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by submit: 3:49pm On Jul 11, 2014
LordReed:

People speak to themselves all the time, some to encourage themselves, others as a form assessment of a situation or goal. This is by no means a measure of insanity or else we are all mad. Singling out prayer for special reference is illogical.
atleast you said 'talking to oneself' NOT 'talking to an imaginary being'.
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by submit: 3:51pm On Jul 11, 2014
plaetton:

I do think it is much saner to talk to myself, which I do all the time, than to talk to and petition an imaginary god whose purpose and will are immutable.
GBAM!!!
you said it all jare..

1 Like

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by mmsen: 4:29pm On Jul 11, 2014
LordReed:

People speak to themselves all the time, some to encourage themselves, others as a form assessment of a situation or goal. This is by no means a measure of insanity or else we are all mad. Singling out prayer for special reference is illogical.

I find it odd that someone who suggests that prayer is in any way rational would introduce 'logic' into the equation.

Prayer is the most illogical of practices if one takes the complete doctrine of Abrahamic religions into account - an all knowing, all powerful being. A being responsible for everything that has and will ever take place. A being that has supposedly predestined everything.

1 Like

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by mployer(m): 4:38pm On Jul 11, 2014
plaetton:

Meaningless and contradictory nonsense.

If god has a plan for you, then prayer shows a lack of faith in either the existence of god , or the certainty of his plans for you.

If one believes that god certainly exists, that he certainly loves you and has certain plans for you(good or bad), then prayer is redundant and superfluous.

If a perfect god created a perfect universe, then There should be No Room For A Complainer or Petitioner In God's Perfect Universe.

when You have a child, you usually have some plans for that child right from birth. You Start from sending him to school, correcting and counseling him, trying to work with him to actually That dream. We all know There Is no realizing the dream without the childs contribution. But when it comes to God we expect a plan conceived and delivered all by Him without Our contribution for a plan meant for us.
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by plaetton: 4:39pm On Jul 11, 2014
mmsen:

I find it odd how someone who suggests that prayer is in any way rational would introduce 'logic' into the equation.

Prayer is the most illogical of practices if one takes the complete doctrine of Abrahamic religions into account - an all knowing, all powerful being. A being responsible for everything that has and will ever take place. A being that has supposedly predestined everything.

Quite frankly, when you think about it seriously, looking at the what is supposed to be the essential ingredients(lol) or supposed core attributes of god , praying is sooo contradictory , so cognitively dissonant, that it is essentially a much celebrated form and expression of insanity.

It is like one exceptional expression of great insanity that everyone is legitimately entitled to.

2 Likes

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by plaetton: 4:50pm On Jul 11, 2014
mployer:

when You have a child, you usually have some plans for that child right from birth. You Start from sending him to school, correcting and counseling him, trying to work with him to actually That dream. We all know There Is no realizing the dream without the childs contribution. But when it comes to God we expect a plan conceived and delivered all by Him without Our contribution for a plan meant for us.

Try again.
You have deliberately sidestepped the issue here.
We are talking here about prayers, asking or begging, a form of petition, a pleading, a mild form of protest to god to do better than he has, to give more, to intercede, to step up his game, to fulfill his contractual godly(?) obligations, to redeem faith points or tithe points earned, etc, etc.

On the other hand , everyone contributes to the fulfillment or lack thereof of their lives by the entire sum of their thoughts and actions.
If your own thoughts and actions include an invisible skydaddy, then good for you and good luck with that.
Many have opted out and are living meaningful and harmonious lives.
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by Demainman1: 4:53pm On Jul 11, 2014
mployer:

when You have a child, you usually have some plans for that child right from birth. You Start from sending him to school, correcting and counseling him, trying to work with him to actually That dream. We all know There Is no realizing the dream without the childs contribution. But when it comes to God we expect a plan conceived and delivered all by Him without Our contribution for a plan meant for us.

But I did not claim to be (Omniscience, Omnipotence, e.t.c). God is.

3 Likes

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by plaetton: 4:56pm On Jul 11, 2014
God is like an insurance company that promises to pay full compensation to You (not your dependents) only after you are dead , provided of course, that all your faith premiums are fully paid up.
grin cheesy

Smells like the greatest insurance fraud in the universe.

grin

5 Likes 1 Share

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by LordReed(m): 4:58pm On Jul 11, 2014
submit:
atleast you said 'talking to oneself' NOT 'talking to an imaginary being'.

And difference is?
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by mployer(m): 4:59pm On Jul 11, 2014
plaetton:

Try again.
You have deliberately sidestepped the issue here.
We are talking here about prayers, asking or begging, a form of petition, a pleading, a mild form of protest to god to do better than he has, to give more, to intercede, to step up his game, to fulfill his contractual godly(?) obligations, to redeem faith points or tithe points earned, etc, etc.

On the other hand , everyone contributes to the fulfillment or lack thereof of their lives by the entire sum of their thoughts and actions.
If your own thoughts and actions include an invisible skydaddy, then good for you and good luck with that.
Many have opted out and are living meaningful and harmonious lives.


All those forms of prayer are often offered by baby christians and are often ignored for their best interest, Just like You would for your Child That makes unwholesome request despite your love for That Child.
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by mployer(m): 5:03pm On Jul 11, 2014
Demainman1:

But I did not claim to be (Omniscience, Omnipotence, e.t.c). God is.

Choosing not to do something isn't inability to do it. A lot of people Can steal but chose not to cos its not right
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by LordReed(m): 5:03pm On Jul 11, 2014
mmsen:

I find it odd that someone who suggests that prayer is in any way rational would introduce 'logic' into the equation.

Prayer is the most illogical of practices if one takes the complete doctrine of Abrahamic religions into account - an all knowing, all powerful being. A being responsible for everything that has and will ever take place. A being that has supposedly predestined everything.

Let us put aside the question of doctrine and consider the action of prayer. If talking to one's self is not crazy then prayer as a subset of soliloquy can't be either. Is this not logic?
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by LordReed(m): 5:05pm On Jul 11, 2014
plaetton:

I do think it is much saner to talk to myself, which I do all the time, than to talk to and petition an imaginary god whose purpose and will are immutable.

Why is it more saner?
Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by plaetton: 5:14pm On Jul 11, 2014
mployer:

All those forms of prayer are often offered by baby christians and are often ignored for their best interest, Just like You would for your Child That makes unwholesome request despite your love for That Child.

He he he.

Cliche'.

And a baby christian is what , or whom?
Does a baby christian believe in the right god, going to the right heaven?

Let me guess, a baby christian is one whose idea of god and god's nature and will is not as mature as yours, right?

It is always the other christian that is doing it wrong, just like it is always the other religion that has it wrong.

And so, what else is new?

1 Like

Re: God's Omniscience. God's Problem. by mmsen: 5:21pm On Jul 11, 2014
LordReed:

Let us put aside the question of doctrine and consider the action of prayer. If talking to one's self is not crazy then prayer as a subset of soliloquy can't be either. Is this not logic?

Prayer is predicated upon the assumption that there is an unproven element somewhere out there in the stratosphere listening to the banal thoughts and fears of billions. Your request that I put aside doctrine is/was dishonest.

Talking to oneself is simply talking to oneself.

(1) (2) (3) (Reply)

Explaining Some Christian Misconceptions About Islam / Do Not Be Yoked Together With Unbelievers / Christians,how Do You Endure This Sermons?

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2019 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 194
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.